JVC GY-HMQ10U (small 4K 60p camcorder) - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 159 Old 02-23-2012, 09:28 PM
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Someone posted a short clip of the Q10 on Youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajzEbTiR4aM

Choose 'Original' for the 4k version.

I saved a snapshot. It's 9.3 MB in size (even zipped)! I'll upload it if someone has a suggestion as to how best to do that.
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post #32 of 159 Old 02-23-2012, 09:34 PM
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I can show these in the meantime. The first is the whole frame at 25% resolution. The next two are cropped 100% resolution samples. Remember samples came from a Youtube source and probably don't fully reproduce the camera's raw video.
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post #33 of 159 Old 02-24-2012, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwhite601 View Post

I can show these in the meantime. The first is the whole frame at 25% resolution. The next two are cropped 100% resolution samples. Remember samples came from a Youtube source and probably don't fully reproduce the camera's raw video.

Based on what people said they saw at CES, I'm sure this isn't quite representative of the original. Those grabs don't look any better than a 1080p source, but given the YT origins, I definitely won't use these a point of reference.

You take a hit in quality too with the screen grab being a compressed jpg.

Thanks for sharing.

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post #34 of 159 Old 02-24-2012, 11:17 AM
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The Youtoob clip should at least allow us to get a general feeling for the camera's dynamic range. It's a half inch CMOS sensor, but contains over 8 million pixels. Those pixels are rather small.

I did copy a screen sample, reduce it 50%, enlarge it back to 4K, and compare it to the original. The reduced resolution clip was noticeably softer than the original. I am interested in seeing how this camera compares to my new Panasonic 3 chip (6 actually) Z10000 in its progressive scan mode. I expect, being a one chip camera, the Q10 will be around 50% sharper than the Z10000.

I'm attending NAB this year. I'll try to record that same street with my Z10000.

My screen grabs were in the PNG format with no additional compression damage, but, unfortunately, the forum software converted the attached images to JPEG.
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post #35 of 159 Old 02-26-2012, 02:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwhite601 View Post

Someone posted a short clip of the Q10 on Youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajzEbTiR4aM

Choose 'Original' for the 4k version.

I saved a snapshot. It's 9.3 MB in size (even zipped)! I'll upload it if someone has a suggestion as to how best to do that.

Detail is amazing on my laptop screen (1600x900)! Wish I could see it in full 4K, but that may be a while off.

On another note, I heard LGs 84" 4K monitor is coming in at 10K this fall! Having both would be heaven sent! Better start saving those pennies!

:-)

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post #36 of 159 Old 03-02-2012, 02:17 PM
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JVC Europe has posted four mp4 clips on their web site (right side of the page under dounloads)

http://www.jvcpro.co.uk/jpe/en/globa....3533.140.html
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post #37 of 159 Old 03-06-2012, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwhite601 View Post

JVC Europe has posted four mp4 clips on their web site (right side of the page under dounloads)

http://www.jvcpro.co.uk/jpe/en/globa....3533.140.html

Most excellent catch my friend! Downloading as we speak!

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post #38 of 159 Old 03-06-2012, 09:33 PM
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The four clips are each quadrant of the 4K scene. 18 total seconds of JVCs 4K (quad HD) footage @ 60fps

On my 1600x900 laptop screen the compression is nominal, resolution is excellent. Color saturation is pretty neutral, contrast looks good for the scene.

I'm not savvy enough on PP CS5 to put the four clips together to recreate the 4K image, if anyone would like to do so or guide me I can provide the original 4K image.

Thanks.

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post #39 of 159 Old 03-06-2012, 10:22 PM
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Ok, surfing the DVInfo.net forums, I figured out how to align the four clips into one 4K scene but my AMD quad core doesn't have enough horses to play it. I'm going to try to export it in full 4K and play it on my roommates I7 quad core Mac (better GPU too).

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post #40 of 159 Old 03-19-2012, 11:22 PM
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I found another pair of You tube sample video postings. These clips have a variety of both day and night scenes. Yeah, they are You tube compressed, but still look impressive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqZgMnyGeWs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnM0E81P8UE
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post #41 of 159 Old 03-21-2012, 03:31 PM
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JVC posted the users' manual today.

http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/i...&feature_id=11

There are a few menu items unique to 4k recording including an 'Edge Blending' option (page 33,62).
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post #42 of 159 Old 03-21-2012, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy LaMont View Post

Ok, surfing the DVInfo.net forums, I figured out how to align the four clips into one 4K scene but my AMD quad core doesn't have enough horses to play it. I'm going to try to export it in full 4K and play it on my roommates I7 quad core Mac (better GPU too).

I explorted a movie in iMovie, using Quicktime with 4K resolution, my 4 yr old MacBook Pro played the file back just fine. I could import it back in to iMovie too. I checked the specs on the metadata, and it was definitely 2160x3840, which I manually chose on the export settings. I did it to test the capabilities of the hardware and software, not really to upscale the video.
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post #43 of 159 Old 03-21-2012, 06:55 PM
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I'll bet they cripple it. They were the first to bring an affordable HD 720p camcorder and it sucked. JVC is great for projectors though. I'm far more interested in Canon's upcoming $4k camera. Hopefully it won't be ridiculously priced.
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post #44 of 159 Old 03-22-2012, 01:58 PM
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@ Chevypower, thanks for the clarification. I never had the opportunity to try it out. I'm still curious if my laptop can muster the strength to play the clip once rendered out to 4k. I'll play around with it this weekend.

@ MTyson, I know forums are all about personal opinion and all, but your comment "I'll bet they cripple it" is really left field right now. When they introduced the GR-HD1 and the GY-HD10, they were the first ever HD camcorder so JVC was testing new waters, new ideas and new concepts all at the same time, so the decision to put those cameras out with what we would consider as consumer level controls and the image paramaters based on what we expect today is understood. Now that they've tasted the waters, there's no need to hold back and I'm sure the camera will do everything advertised.

To clarify a point also, the image quality was good for the first 720p camcorder given the right light and setup (as with any camea), I owned one (still do) so I know first hand. It had it's limitations, but I've wooed crowds over with my footage from that cam many times. Did you even own one?

I haven't heard anything specific to Canon releasing a $4k camera outside of the C300, there's a huge speculation as to what they'll be introducing at NAB this year so do you have any references or facts to back up that statement?

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post #45 of 159 Old 03-23-2012, 03:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy LaMont View Post


@ MTyson, I know forums are all about personal opinion and all, but your comment "I'll bet they cripple it" is really left field right now. When they introduced the GR-HD1 and the GY-HD10, they were the first ever HD camcorder so JVC was testing new waters, new ideas and new concepts all at the same time, so the decision to put those cameras out with what we would consider as consumer level controls and the image paramaters based on what we expect today is understood. Now that they've tasted the waters, there's no need to hold back and I'm sure the camera will do everything advertised.

It's called "Planned Obsolescence". Marketing 101. They have lots of reasons to hold back and cripple the camera. One, to protect their higher end cameras and so they can release more 4k camera with gradual small improvements in features and quality. When they released the first 720p consumer camcorder there were still far superior 480p camcorders around that blew it away in overall quality, IMO.

Quote:


To clarify a point also, the image quality was good for the first 720p camcorder given the right light and setup (as with any camea), I owned one (still do) so I know first hand. It had it's limitations, but I've wooed crowds over with my footage from that cam many times. Did you even own one?

Never owned one, but I never saw any footage from it that impressed me all that much compared to the DVX100A/B and I saw plenty since I was looking for a camera for filmmaking and was excited about it. It was decent and innovative, but was nowhere near the DVX100A, IMO, which was an SD camcorder. It looked to be sorely lacking in dynamic range and looked way way too videoy for my tastes, which was what I was wanting to avoid. Everyone has their own tastes though.

Almost any half way decent camera can look good in capable hands, so if you're good I'm not surprised if your footage looked good.


Quote:


I haven't heard anything specific to Canon releasing a $4k camera outside of the C300, there's a huge speculation as to what they'll be introducing at NAB this year so do you have any references or facts to back up that statement?

Canon said they were making a 4k camera awhile back and said "Sooner rather than later", but it's not for sure to be what they are announcing in April. Just what people seem to expect. They also filed patents for a RAW video format.
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post #46 of 159 Old 03-23-2012, 09:24 AM
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I've read the manual and it looks like it's not missing much. Most of the omissions seem related to it's intended use. For example, it doesn't record standard definition, so there are no analog outputs. Who uses those these days anyway.

It doesn't have an HD-SDI output, but I don't believe that standard supports 4K. I couldn't find any reference to the new x.y.color, but perhaps it isn't needed. The 4K format may have never been crippled by sRGB so there would be no requirement to reinvent full RGB and give it a catchy name.

It lacks some of the fancy auto features such as face recognition, Program AE, and Intelligent Auto, but it's not intended to be a point and shoot camera. It does have the mode where a user can touch the LCD to set the reference point for focus and exposure.

I am surprised it's missing a neutral density filter. My GS-TD1 and Panasonic Z10000 3D camcorders also lack neutral density filters. Are they going out of style?

It doesn't come with a remote control, but I rarely use those anyway.

I intend to use mine to record for a video window I'll set up one day. I'm going to set it on a tripod at various scenic places around Hawaii. Then, when 4K monitors are relatively cheap, I'll dedicate one to be an electronic window with the view of my choice.
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post #47 of 159 Old 03-23-2012, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwhite601 View Post


I intend to use mine to record for a video window I'll set up one day. I'm going to set it on a tripod at various scenic places around Hawaii. Then, when 4K monitors are relatively cheap, I'll dedicate one to be an electronic window with the view of my choice.

Sounds like fun. My wife wants me to put another window in the bedroom, so she can see outside while using her desk. I can just put the money towards the JVC cam and 4k monitor down the road......

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post #48 of 159 Old 04-02-2012, 01:38 PM
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I ordered my GY-HMQ10 this morning. B & H has them in stock. Mine should arrive later this week.

I scrutinized the video samples looking for some flaw that would save me $5000, but no suck luck

I'll post details this weekend.
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post #49 of 159 Old 04-02-2012, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwhite601 View Post

I ordered my GY-HMQ10 this morning. B & H has them in stock. Mine should arrive later this week.

I scrutinized the video samples looking for some flaw that would save me $5000, but no suck luck

I'll post details this weekend.

Sweeeeeeet!! Looking forward to hearing your impressions on this cam. Time to drop the coin on the Sony 4K PJ.......

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post #50 of 159 Old 04-02-2012, 07:31 PM
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I'm in a bit of shock that I'll be owning a 4K camcorder. I remember reading about HDTV in 1990 and really wanting an HD camcorder. That dream didn't come true for another 15 years.

I thought we would move beyond HD ... some decade, but not so soon! It took over 40 years to go from color TV to HDTV. Lately I've been reading about 4K camcorders, 4K displays, even 4K on the next generation game consoles (edit: and I just found out about a 4K Bluray player ... upscaled of course).

Of course, 4K is only useful for large TV's, but I just came back from a local retailer and was surprised at both the number of 60 and 70 inch TV's as well as their price. Many sets were less then $1500. I spend around $2500 for a 42" just 15 months ago.

I stood about the same distance from a 70" model as I sit from my 42" TV and its HD picture actually looked a bit soft. 4K video is going to look great!
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post #51 of 159 Old 04-02-2012, 10:49 PM
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Wow, congrats sir. Post raw samples, I adore raw samples! :-)

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post #52 of 159 Old 04-06-2012, 10:29 AM
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I got my HMQ10 yesterday. Here are my initial impressions

The camera comes well packed in a relatively plain box. The top of the box contained a sticker from JVC USA mentioning that they had inspected the camera. Inside, the camera was not only packed in a soft foam bag, but also in a large zip locked water proof bag. Nice. There wasn't much else in the box: battery, charger, power cord, handle/external mic bay, manual, charger manual, and warranty sheet. There was no CD. Software (Mac only) can be downloaded from JVC.

The camera is quite solid and somewhat heavy. It's a bit smaller than I expected. Without the detachable handle/external mic bay, it could easily pass for an older consumer camcorder. The camera didn't come with a strap nor was there anyplace to attach one.

There is both a small filter attachment option behind the built in lens hood shutter as well as a large 72mm filter attachment option in front of the lens hood doors. The lens is behind a built in neutral density filter and is smaller than I expected. I plan on putting a second, removable neutral density filter on the inner point and occasionally my old 72mm circular polarizing filter on the outer point.

It comes with a new, somewhat large battery that is supposed to last around 100 minutes for 4K recording. Additional batteries are not yet available. I hope they are by summer, or I'm going to be limited on my vacation.

I fed it four 32GB SanDisk Extreme Class 10 SDHC memory cards and powered it up. The first thing it wanted to do was format the cards. All the card based cameras I've owned suggest I format the cards with the camera first and I had always ignored that advice with no problems. The HMQ10 manual mentions card formatting several times. It means it. Formatting didn't take long and the camera was ready to record.

It uses a similar touch screen LCD to the JVC 3D camcorder, GS-TD1. The menus are similar to the TD1 as well. Unlike the TD1, however, menu display on the HMQ10 was fast. The TD1 sometimes struggles to display menus giving the impression that it's so busy with 3D video, there's not much processing power left over for menu display. Unlike the TD1, this camera has a view finder. Like my Panasonic Z10000, the HMQ10's viewfinder seems to cycle through primary colors, When I moved my eye, I saw color fringes. Contrast in the viewfinder was also a bit weak. The LCD display looked better and was sharp.

It took four hours to charge the battery, so my first recording was indoors. Light sensitivity was rather poor. This isn't a camera to record birthday parties or weddings. I recorded some more video this morning from my balcony. It's outdoor performance is very impressive.

I also set the camera to full HD, 60p mode and recorded the same scene. The result was the sharpest HD video I've ever recorded. As expected, it's sharper than my 3 chip (per lens) Z10000 in its full HD,60p mode. I didn't have time to try out the different gamma and color matrix options. I'll explore those this weekend.

I'm not able to upload my samples from work, so I'll post links tonight. I'll upload the full HD sample and the four 4K individual HD MP4 files. Each covers a quadrant of the full screen. I don't yet have the ability to merge these files into a single 4K MP4 file.
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post #53 of 159 Old 04-06-2012, 11:38 PM
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I finally got my samples uploaded. There are better samples from JVC. These samples might prove useful since they are of the same scene I recorded with my Panasonic Z10000 and JVC GS-TD1.

The first sample is from the camera recording in Full HD, 60p mode. It also represents what a 4K recording looks like on an HDTV using just one HDMI cable.

HMQ10 Full HD sample

The remaining four samples are from a 4K recording. Each covers a quadrant of the full screen. I don't yet have the ability to merge these files into a single 4K MP4 file.

HMQ10 4K sample part A
HMQ10 4K sample part B
HMQ10 4K sample part C
HMQ10 4K sample part D
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post #54 of 159 Old 04-07-2012, 09:21 AM
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The first sample is from the camera recording in Full HD, 60p mode. It also represents what a 4K recording looks like on an HDTV using just one HDMI cable.

HMQ10 Full HD sample

Congrats on the purchase and thanks for posting the raw files. The full hd sample is sharp...Really Sharp! It looks tremendous! The stabilization isn't the best when zoomed in though, but on par for JVC.

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post #55 of 159 Old 04-07-2012, 10:23 PM
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Looks like the download link of down already. Thanks for the preliminary info.

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post #56 of 159 Old 04-08-2012, 09:46 PM
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I got a chance to explore the gamma and color matrix options today.

The choices are

No Gamma
Standard Gamma
Cine Gamma

No Color Matrix
Standard Color Matrix
Vivid Cine Color Matrix
Subdued Cine Color Matrix

It looks like most of them are more useful for post processing than final rendering. I narrowed my preferred choices to two:

Standard Gamma, Standard Color
Cine Gamma, Standard Color (for scenes with too much natural contrast)

The samples are from the upper left quadrant, half resolution. I captured in PNG format via VLC and reduced resolution in Photoshop. The forum software converted them to JPG.

The order of the samples is


Standard Gamma, Standard Color Matrix
Cine Gamma, Standard Color Matrix
Cine Gamma, Vivid Cine Color Matrix
Cine Gamma, Subdued Cine Color Matrix
No Gamma, Standard Color Matrix
LL
LL
LL
LL
LL
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post #57 of 159 Old 04-09-2012, 12:14 AM
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Ok, so I guess the host site for the clips was overloaded at the time I attempted to download. Thanks.

Just based on the pics, I would agree that the std color/std gamma looks to be the best color combination pre post.

That field of flowers looks amazing, are you sharing any 4K or full HD from that? Much obliged.

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post #58 of 159 Old 04-11-2012, 09:45 PM
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Troy, I can't provide a sample video clip because I recorded more than the few seconds that will fit into the 100MB upload limit.

I did play the four quadrants through VLC and take snapshots of each. I then joined the samples in Photoshop. I wasn't able to match the exact frame between the samples so there are visible seams that wouldn't be present if all four parts were from the same moment.

The resulting PNG file is over 11MBytes and I need to upload it to a file sharing site. As you've discovered, the one I normally use is not working.

In the meantime, I'm attached a small crop illustrating the camera's native resolution. I had expected the picture to be a bit soft at its pixel level, but there is plenty of detail.Notice the antenna in the upper right and the gap between the pier pilings in the lower left. This camera is amazing!
LL
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post #59 of 159 Old 04-12-2012, 08:43 AM
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How's the image stabilizer? The older HM100 had horrible OIS to the point it felt as if it did not existed at all. I suppose the Panasonic fares good in this regard, so is the new JVC worse or better than the Panasonic?

EDIT: Ok, I downloaded the "HMQ10 Full HD sample". To my eye it is about as sharp as image from the HM100, and at telephoto end it shakes pretty much the same. It seems that image stabilization on JVC cams still trails behind the big three (Sony, Pana, Canon).
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post #60 of 159 Old 04-12-2012, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwhite601 View Post

Troy, I can't provide a sample video clip because I recorded more than the few seconds that will fit into the 100MB upload limit.

You could get a free Dropbox.com account and upload up to 2Gb! A host of other online sharing sites offer at least 200 Mb or more: rapidshare.com [200 Mb], filesavr.com [10Gb!], mediafire.com [200 Mb], uploading.com [500 mb].

Appreciate the information and time spent sharing it with us. I'm almost there on pulling the gun.

Thanks.

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