JVC GY-HMQ10U (small 4K 60p camcorder) - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 159 Old 04-12-2012, 04:13 PM
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To my eye it is about as sharp as image from the HM100

Hmm, that's an interesting observation. I know the hype behind the marketing machine, I worked in marketing for many years, but 'supposedly' the Q10 has better glass up front than the HM100 and it shoots at double the frame rate of the HM100 (higher temporal resolution). I'd suspect the video to be that much sharper.

I have yet to view the samples on a full HD display (which I plan on doing tonight), but I'd venture to guess the Q10 to be sharper by a much higher margin than just being on par with the HM100 from a generation or two ago. Factoring in the single chip from the Q10 and the 3 chips on the HM100 (convergence issues) I'm sure the Q10 will best it on resolvability.

Dwhite's clip was damn sharp on my lowly 1600x900 laptop display, just about as sharp as anything else I'd seen outside of the Q10 for full HD (1080p).

More to come.

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post #62 of 159 Old 04-12-2012, 05:58 PM
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So far I've mostly recorded with my tripod, so I haven't really paid much attention to its stabilization. I'll learn more in when I take the camera to Ren Faire in the next few weeks.

I'll look into those other file sharing sites. One of the posters in the AVweb 3D forum used the German site so I just used what he did.

What really sold me on the camera was when I compared its video to my Z10000 in its 1080 60fps (2D) mode. At a per pixel level, the 'Z has an advantage of having three chips vs the Q's one chip. On the other hand, the Q's per pixel data rate is 28% higher than the 'Z. The Q's video looked noticeably sharper.

Until we get our 4K monitors, we'll have to simulate what the full image would look like. I've taken my small crop from the last post and reduced it's resolution 50% to simulate that clip being displayed on a 1080 monitor. The third clip simulates some 'edge enhancement' on the HD clip. (Edit: I added a 4th half res sample made with a better resampling algorithm). Based on what I'm seeing, the 4K sample really has extra detail beyond HD.

I'm also not seeing any lens color fringing or anything. JVC doesn't have a fancy brand name for this camera's lens. They just describe it has better. I think they are right.

I'm taking my camera to NAB next week. I hope to get a chance to see some of my recordings on a real 4K display.
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post #63 of 159 Old 04-12-2012, 08:25 PM
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I'm taking my camera to NAB next week. I hopeto geta chance to see some of my recordings on a real 4K display.

Most excellent!

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post #64 of 159 Old 04-13-2012, 10:24 AM
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dwhite601, can you compare image stabilizer on the JVC and on the Panasonic?
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post #65 of 159 Old 04-13-2012, 02:51 PM
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DWhite, can you explain about the ND filter in front of the lens? I'm not sure what you mean, The camera doesn't have ND filters, does it?
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post #66 of 159 Old 04-13-2012, 03:36 PM
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The camera doesn't have a built in neutral density filter. I was referring to two places where one could be added.

There is a place just in front of the lens for a small 46mm filter. In addition, there another place at the front of the lens hood for a 72mm filter. The lens hood's shutter is between those two filter mounts so the larger filter is not protected by the lens hood.

I just installed a 46mm clear UV filter and will occasionally add my 72mm circular polarizing filter on the front of the hood where it is easy to adjust.

I'll be able to explore the image stabilizer this weekend.
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post #67 of 159 Old 04-14-2012, 01:39 PM
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Hi,

I've been following on the net any JVC HMQ footage. I contacted JVC a while back and they got back to me yesterday and supposedly will be having a rep contact me sometime in the near future. The footage of the HMQ looks exceptional from what I have seen. Is it possible for those who have purchased the JVC HMQ10, if someone could put a short 10 second video clip of a scene or a medium shot person with the CineGammaCineSubduedColor profile?
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post #68 of 159 Old 04-14-2012, 08:16 PM
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This page contains a lot of sample clips in the various modes with a model. Scroll about half way down. It's not in English, but the links to each icon indicates the camera setting in English.

Here is his youtube posting.


On the previous page of this thread, I posted a few snapshots taken from my trip to the Carlsbad Flower Fields. I have to say, while I'm very impressed with the camera, its cine mode looked a bit unsaturated. Since I'm new to the camera, Its possible I've done something wrong.
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post #69 of 159 Old 04-14-2012, 09:36 PM
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Dwhite601,

Awesome! Thank-you kindly for the link.
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post #70 of 159 Old 04-14-2012, 10:23 PM
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Dwhite601,

With respect to Cine Gamma, Subdued Cine Color Matrix, the reason I'm interested with that particular style is because of the lack of saturation. You didn't do anything wrong. With this picture profile, I am curious as to how the video responds as one color grades in post. This type of profile should give more latitude for color grading. I also noticed alot of videos have highlights blown out a bit due to probably not using a nd filter. The camera video is very sharp.
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post #71 of 159 Old 04-14-2012, 11:13 PM
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I was wondering if I'd need to buy a neutral density filter. I found out today I do.

I recorded a snow storm at Pine Valley this morning and found that the iris would only close to f5.6 and I needed to set the shutter speed to 1/320 for 4K, 60fps video. The video came out OK, but the falling snow (actually more sleet than snow) made it obvious I had set the shutter speed fairly fast.
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post #72 of 159 Old 04-16-2012, 04:01 PM
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Quote:


I'm taking my camera to NAB next week. I hope to get a chance to see some of my recordings on a real 4K display.

Confirmed, JVC has a 30" 4K prototype at NAB!! :-) Keep us posted...

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post #73 of 159 Old 04-17-2012, 11:24 AM
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Now we can finally do the ridiculous CSI Zoom. I don't understand how they get 4K from a 1/2 inch chip, but 144 Mbps is going to take up a far bit of space on an SD card. Why this camera doesn't have a hard drive is beyond me.

This looks like a great prototype camera, but I don't thinks it's quite ready for the market, it's seems like a preview of future cameras like those early those HD formats, the first betamax in 1975 and the much earlier 1/2 inch reel to reel video recorders.
I don't think people in the future will use 4 HDMI ports and 4 SDXC slots to get 4K on their TVs. But I have heard HDMI will be updated to include 4K, if not 'Lightpeak' will probably do it.

Personally I love the imagine quality from it at 1080p and I would buy for that alone, It, I don't have much experience with 4K but I'd imagine it's very soft compared to the RED camera, like HDV cameras compared to the F900.
I would love to see if you get the dreaded rolling shutter jelly pans.
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post #74 of 159 Old 04-17-2012, 12:32 PM
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I still cannot find a FULL 4k HD video to download; not a resampled 1920x1080 one. I want to see what my 1080p TV does through my media center for playback.
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post #75 of 159 Old 04-17-2012, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shield View Post

I still cannot find a FULL 4k HD video to download; not a resampled 1920x1080 one. I want to see what my 1080p TV does through my media center for playback.

There's a couple on this forum, one in this thread (you have to assemble the 4 quad clips). Plenty online also, use Google.

Haven't heard from Dwhite, guess all is well in Vegas. :-)

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post #76 of 159 Old 04-17-2012, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy LaMont View Post

There's a couple on this forum, one in this thread (you have to assemble the 4 quad clips). Plenty online also, use Google.

Haven't heard from Dwhite, guess all is well in Vegas. :-)


Ahem I have used Google, please give me a link to one. If the dude who BOUGHT one can't put these back together, what chance does a poor slob like myself have?

The ones I've found were in .cif format and I couldn't open them up.
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post #77 of 159 Old 04-17-2012, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shield View Post

Ahem I have used Google, please give me a link to one. If the dude who BOUGHT one can't put these back together, what chance does a poor slob like myself have?

The ones I've found were in .cif format and I couldn't open them up.


Full 4k sample from cam


The other samples are just like the OP, 4 quad core sections that you have to piecemeal together.

If I have time in the next few days I'll stitch the 2 other 4K clips together that I have and share with all.

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post #78 of 159 Old 04-17-2012, 11:42 PM
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What software are you using to stitch them back together?
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post #79 of 159 Old 04-17-2012, 11:51 PM
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Adobe Premiere Pro CS 5.5. PP has been able to handle 4k for years.

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post #80 of 159 Old 04-18-2012, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy LaMont View Post

Haven't heard from Dwhite, guess all is well in Vegas. :-)

I just got back. I had a great time. I went to the JVC booth first. Like last year, when I brought my new JVC GS-TD1 3D camcorder to NAB, they were really appreciative that I had bought their camera. This time I even got to talk to their President, Mr Mueller and several other members of their senior staff. They weren't sure how the camera would be used and were very interested in hearing from early adopters. I got the impression I'm the first one they met.

They showed me how Final Cut stitches together the four parts and even converted a few of my shorter clips. They are loading into my PC now in the ProRes format (interframe compression). Their Mac found the clips very quickly via a USB connection to my camera and could scrub through the 4K clips very fast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shield View Post

If the dude who BOUGHT one can't put these back together, what chance does a poor slob like myself have?

I've actually been concentrating on getting a 3D Bluray authoring solution (I settled on Power Director 10) and haven't had time to explore 4K options yet. It's going to take a while before I can distribute 4K video anyway. I'm content to just acquire the recordings for now.

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Originally Posted by person12 View Post

Personally I love the imagine quality from it at 1080p and I would buy for that alone, It, I don't have much experience with 4K but I'd imagine it's very soft compared to the RED camera, like HDV cameras compared to the F900.

I had suspected that as well, but really scrutinized the samples and they really are sharp at the pixel level. My own recordings bear that out. I got to see Q10 samples on a dedicated 4K monitor and compare them to Red's 4K demo loop. The Q10 is just as sharp.

I'm not saying that Red Epic owners wasted their money. There are more parameters to video than just sharpness of course. I wish the Q10 had better light sensitivity, for example, but it is sharp. I'll never think of 'Full' HD the same way again.

I'm quite pleased with my purchase. I'm looking forward to capturing spectacular scenes in Hawaii this summer.
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post #81 of 159 Old 04-18-2012, 01:13 AM
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As a followup on the subject of sharpness, I got a chance to record a DSC Labs resolution chart and just now got to look at a snapshot. The resolution is well above 1000 lines for both vertical and horizontal resolution.

The chart wasn't well lite and it's likely I didn't frame it properly, so I'll refrain from posting specific numbers. Any day now an expert is likely to post a proper, in depth review.
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post #82 of 159 Old 04-18-2012, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwhite601 View Post

I just got back. I had a great time. I went to the JVC booth first. Like last year, when I brought my new JVC GS-TD1 3D camcorder to NAB, they were really appreciative that I had bought their camera. This time I even got to talk to their President, Mr Mueller and several other members of their senior staff. They weren't sure how the camera would be used and were very interested in hearing from early adopters. I got the impression I'm the first one they met.

They showed me how Final Cut stitches together the four parts and even converted a few of my shorter clips. They are loading into my PC now in the ProRes format (interframe compression). Their Mac found the clips very quickly via a USB connection to my camera and could scrub through the 4K clips very fast.




I've actually been concentrating on getting a 3D Bluray authoring solution (I settled on Power Director 10) and haven't had time to explore 4K options yet. It's going to take a while before I can distribute 4K video anyway. I'm content to just acquire the recordings for now.



I had suspected that as well, but really scrutinized the samples and they really are sharp at the pixel level. My own recordings bear that out. I got to see Q10 samples on a dedicated 4K monitor and compare them to Red's 4K demo loop. The Q10 is just as sharp.

I'm not saying that Red Epic owners wasted their money. There are more parameters to video than just sharpness of course. I wish the Q10 had better light sensitivity, for example, but it is sharp. I'll never think of 'Full' HD the same way again.

I'm quite pleased with my purchase. I'm looking forward to capturing spectacular scenes in Hawaii this summer.

I'm not too concerned with dynamic range or low light sensitivity, but I am concerned about rolling shutter on pans AKA Jellyvision. How much does the image skew on fast pans?
Can I capture 25p (30p) from the HDMI ?
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post #83 of 159 Old 04-18-2012, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy LaMont View Post

Adobe Premiere Pro CS 5.5. PP has been able to handle 4k for years.

So Premiere Pro can stitch them back together?
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post #84 of 159 Old 04-18-2012, 05:02 PM
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I just got back. I had a great time. I went to the JVC booth first. Like last year, when I brought my new JVC GS-TD1 3D camcorder to NAB, they were really appreciative that I had bought their camera. This time I even got to talk to their President, Mr Mueller and several other members of their senior staff. They weren't sure how the camera would be used and were very interested in hearing from early adopters. I got the impression I'm the first one they met.

That's awesome to hear, they have a connection with the average consumer, kudos to them for that!

Quote:


I had suspected that as well, but really scrutinized the samples and they really are sharp at the pixel level. My own recordings bear that out. I got to see Q10 samples on a dedicated 4K monitor and compare them to Red's 4K demo loop. The Q10 is just as sharp.

That's speaks volumes! Especially given that usually the Red is coupled with very high end prime cinema lenses! I'm still kinda shaking my head at the comparison with the HM100 by Ungermann, hmm. ;-)

Quote:


is well above 1000 lines for both vertical and horizontal resolution.

In 4K or Full HD?

Quote:


So Premiere Pro can stitch them back together?

Yes, in a few diff output formats.

Now that's how you supposed to drive!

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post #85 of 159 Old 04-18-2012, 07:13 PM
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I recorded the chart in 4K mode.

JVC showed a clip of a city from a helicopter. I could make out a lot of detail. The Red sample was also of a city scape from a helicopter.

Speaking of 4K detail, Sony showed some 4K short movies in their theater. One of them was from a Carnival parade in Rio. The performers spend months putting thousands of glittery do dads on their costumes. The movie showed hundreds of performers in wide angle shots. I could make out all their do dads as if I was there in person. It was an amazing site. That clip alone could sell a lot of 4K TV's.

Ungermann asked about the Q10's image stabilization. I didn't notice any problems yesterday. I'll know more when I take the camera to RenFair.
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post #86 of 159 Old 04-19-2012, 09:47 AM
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Can I capture 25p (30p) from the HDMI ?

Yes. I actually emailed JVC on this back in Feb, full uncompressed out at 24/25p is a reality.

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post #87 of 159 Old 04-19-2012, 09:21 PM
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Hey DWhite,

Did the Canon 4K monitor have 4 HDMI inputs? If not how did they get your footage to the monitor?

If you have time, can you take a picture of the camera in your hands? I want to get an idea of size.

Thanks.

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post #88 of 159 Old 04-20-2012, 02:37 AM
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I saw a video posted showing the (jelly) skewing pan showing the pan skew and it doesn't seem any worse than my HVR-HC9. But it's a toss up between this the BMD Cinema cam.
Quote:
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Yes. I actually emailed JVC on this back in Feb, full uncompressed out at 24/25p is a reality.

Cheers for that . I wanted link it to my Atomos Ninja for 1080p @25p and 24p (for telecine).
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post #89 of 159 Old 04-20-2012, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy LaMont View Post

Hey DWhite,

Did the Canon 4K monitor have 4 HDMI inputs? If not how did they get your footage to the monitor?

If you have time, can you take a picture of the camera in your hands? I want to get an idea of size.

Thanks.

The Canon C500 has dual 3G-SDI connections (BNC) for 4K output.

http://cinemaeos.usa.canon.com/produ...pe=Camera-c500
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post #90 of 159 Old 04-20-2012, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy LaMont View Post

Hey DWhite,

Did the Canon 4K monitor have 4 HDMI inputs? If not how did they get your footage to the monitor?

If you have time, can you take a picture of the camera in your hands? I want to get an idea of size.

Thanks.

I couldn't see how the cameras were connected to their monitors. If it's like the consumer 4K TV Toshiba is selling in Japan this summer, the camera's four HDMI cables go to a breakout box that feeds the TV with one cable. 4K is so new even the professional cable can't cover it yet.

I didn't get to see my video on their 4K monitor. They did let me connect to their Mac to merge some of my video.

I'll try to get a photo of the camera as well as a 'jello' cam test this weekend. The camera is smaller than other pro cameras, but bigger than modern consumer cameras. It feels a bit heavy for its size. JVC used a lot of metal instead of plastic.

I also want to get specifics on its light sensitivity by comparing it to my Z10000 and TD1. I had to use 9db of gain at NAB. There wasn't much graininess at 9db and I probably should have used 12db. I did notice from watching my NAB video in HD mode that reducing four pixels to one eliminated nearly all of the graininess of 9db.
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