JVC GY-HMQ10U (small 4K 60p camcorder) - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 159 Old 04-20-2012, 09:23 AM
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that reducing four pixels to one eliminated nearly all of the graininess of 9db.

Is this the full HD trimming function that window boxes a Full HD window from the 4K window? If not can you elaborate what you mean?

Thanks.

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post #92 of 159 Old 04-20-2012, 09:56 AM
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No, I was referring to watching 4K video with just one HDMI cable connected to my TV. This way, the camera down samples to full HD averaging four pixels into one.
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post #93 of 159 Old 04-20-2012, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by dwhite601 View Post

4K is so new even the professional cable can't cover it yet.

I just said how it was done. Here it is again. Dual 3G-SDI connections. Not HDMI.
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post #94 of 159 Old 04-20-2012, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Chevypower View Post

I just said how it was done. Here it is again. Dual 3G-SDI connections. Not HDMI.

First off the JVC camera we're talking bout here only outputs 4K via the 4 HDMI outputs, secondly you're talking about what the C500 can do which is not the camera we're talking about, thirdly unless you know what inputs the Canon 4K prototype monitor was using, how could you state that so matter-of-factly?!

Stop the madness. LOL

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post #95 of 159 Old 04-20-2012, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by dwhite601 View Post

No, I was referring to watching 4K video with just one HDMI cable connected to my TV. This way, the camera down samples to full HD averaging four pixels into one.

Gotcha, thanks and much appreciated. Man I know you feel like the king of the castle about now!! Probably one of less than 50 than own this camera stateside already!

I love being ahead of the Joneses in the tech dept, I think I'm going to get this cam but I want to pay for it straight out, I'm about 3/4 of the way there. :-)

The really crazy thing is I'll just be using this for my own personal uses, no pro shoots, or weddings or barmitvahs. Just me, my life and my kids (and a few scantily clad Hollywood chicks thrown in)! LOL

Take care

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post #96 of 159 Old 04-20-2012, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy LaMont View Post

First off the JVC camera we're talking bout here only outputs 4K via the 4 HDMI outputs, secondly you're talking about what the C500 can do which is not the camera we're talking about, thirdly unless you know what inputs the Canon 4K prototype monitor was using, how could you state that so matter-of-factly?!

Stop the madness. LOL

First of all, SORRRRRRYYY!
Secondly.... LOL! 4 HDMI outputs on the JVC, correct!
Thirdly, because Canon has said what outputs are on the C500.
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post #97 of 159 Old 04-20-2012, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Chevypower View Post

First of all, SORRRRRRYYY!
Secondly.... LOL! 4 HDMI outputs on the JVC, correct!
Thirdly, because Canon has said what outputs are on the C500.



Stay focused my friend and in the words of "The Most Interesting Man In The World", Stay thirsty! LOL

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post #98 of 159 Old 04-20-2012, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevypower View Post

I just said how it was done. Here it is again. Dual 3G-SDI connections. Not HDMI.

I was referring to a single cable that could carry the full 4K, 60p, 4:2:0 signal. That would require around 5gbs which is above the 3G-SDI standard (3gbs). Adding 10 or 12 bits, extra color resolution, etc would bring the requirements closer to 10gbs. Using two or four cables is a temporary solution.
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post #99 of 159 Old 04-20-2012, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwhite601 View Post

I was referring to a single cable that could carry the full 4K, 60p, 4:2:0 signal. That would require around 5gbs which is above the 3G-SDI standard (3gbs). Adding 10 or 12 bits, extra color resolution, etc would bring the requirements closer to 10gbs. Using two or four cables is a temporary solution.

Yeah they were using dual-link HD-SDI to handle 1080p until 3G-SDI came along. Now we have dual-link 3G-SDI to handle 4K until something else comes along.
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post #100 of 159 Old 04-20-2012, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Troy LaMont View Post

Gotcha, thanks and much appreciated. Man I know you feel like the king of the castle about now!! Probably one of less than 50 than own this camera stateside already!

I love being ahead of the Joneses in the tech dept, I think I'm going to get this cam but I want to pay for it straight out, I'm about 3/4 of the way there. :-)

The really crazy thing is I'll just be using this for my own personal uses, no pro shoots, or weddings or barmitvahs. Just me, my life and my kids (and a few scantily clad Hollywood chicks thrown in)! LOL

Take care

I'm not usually this early an adopter! I have to admit, having the president of JVC ask me for my opinion about the camera was rare experience.

I also plan on using it for personal use. If 4K TV's and home distribution catches on, I might have an opportunity to sell my 'video window' style clips in the future. I'm going to try and record as professionally as I can.

Having seen amazing 4K clips at NAB, I think 4K will eventually catch on in the home. It makes sense for large TV's and large TV's are getting pretty cheap.

We just have to get used to the idea that our fancy new high definition video standard really isn't as sharp as it needs to be.
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post #101 of 159 Old 04-22-2012, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Troy LaMont View Post

Hey DWhite,

If you have time, can you take a picture of the camera in your hands? I want to get an idea of size.

Thanks.

Here are some comparisons between my Panasonic Z10000 and JVC HMQ10.

I compared the light sensitivity between the two cameras indoors today. Both were set to 0db gain, max aperature, 60fps, 1/60th shutter speed. I then added gain to the JVC until it's image roughly matched the Panasonic.

I had to add 12db of gain to get its image close to the Z10000. Actually, I would need somewhere between 12 and 15db for a perfect match.

While recording at the renfair yesterday, one stage in shadow around 3pm needed around 6db of gain. I also concluded I don't like the look of Cinematic gamma and am switching back to 'Standard' gamma. I believe that the Cine options in the JVC are best suited for post processing rather than getting a specific look in the camera.

This camera is great for recording belly dancing! It captures all the intricate texture of the dancers' costumes.
LL
LL
LL
LL
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post #102 of 159 Old 04-22-2012, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by dwhite601 View Post

Here are some comparisons between my Panasonic Z10000 and JVC HMQ10.

I compared the light sensitivity between the two cameras indoors today. Both were set to 0db gain, max aperature, 60fps, 1/60th shutter speed. I then added gain to the JVC until it's image roughly matched the Panasonic.

I had to add 12db of gain to get its image close to the Z10000. Actually, I would need somewhere between 12 and 15db for a perfect match.

Both in 1080p60 mode? Huh, who would think of this. Do you have an HMC40 or a HS300\\SD600\\TM700\\TM800\\TM900 nearby to compare any of these to the the Z10000 (and to the JVC as well)? The HMC40 is not a low light champ, I wonder whether the Z10000 is so much better than it, or the JVC is so much worse.
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post #103 of 159 Old 04-22-2012, 09:14 PM
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I don't have those other cameras you mentioned. While the 'Z is good with low light, I suspect most of the difference is the JVC. It's like the early days of professional HD cameras in the 1990's. They were not too great for low light either.

So far, nobody has posted a formal review for the HMQ10. I'm looking forward to reading one.
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post #104 of 159 Old 04-23-2012, 10:32 AM
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Thanks for the pics,

Definately much small than I thought, but that's a good thing.

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post #105 of 159 Old 04-27-2012, 01:27 AM
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Just a quick note ...

I experimented with feeding the 4K, 60p Apple ProRes 4:2:2 files JVC made for me at NAB to Power Director 10. To my amazement, they not only loaded OK, but rendered OK as well. Quite a feat for a relatively cheap consumer authoring program that clearly wasn't designed for 4K production.
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post #106 of 159 Old 05-11-2012, 01:39 PM
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Good day good sir,

Any additional insights you'd like to share; joys, revelations, frustration and/or new footage?

Thanks.

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post #107 of 159 Old 05-11-2012, 04:00 PM
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He's probably frustrated that he doesn't have a 4k display.

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post #108 of 159 Old 05-12-2012, 01:23 AM
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Yes, it would be nice to have a 4K display, but I'd rather have just the camcorder for now than only have a 4K display wishing someone would sell a 4K camcorder. Watching the recordings de-res'ed to HD is a major improvement in sharpness over native HD camcorders. That's enough for now.

I'm working on getting JVC's 4K merge utility to work on my little Mac Mini. JVC is helping, but it's not working yet. When I get it working, I can post some short clips.

I've been taking the camera to renaissance fairs and this weekend, a local steam punk convention that also has belly dancing. I'm close to finding a gamma selection that looks best. Today I tried 'Cinema' with a +3 gamma offset. That brings up the mid tones that had been too dark.

I just got a set of 46mm filters for the camera: neutral density filters ND2, ND4, and ND8, as well as a circular polarizing filter. That should allow me to keep the shutter speed at 60fps.

Speaking for 60 fps, I'm getting spoiled with 60p. I'm glad JVC didn't stop at 2160,60i and went straight to 60p. That means the camera records 8 times the data rate of standard 1080i. Dance looks really good at that full frame rate. One side effect of 4K recording is I burn a lot of Bluray discs. I need 5 for every 2 hours I record to backup my video. With a second set for offsite backups, that's 5 discs/hr!

I'm enjoying the camera. The dancers are really impressed when I tell them they are being recorded at a resolution feature movie directors are now starting to use.
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post #109 of 159 Old 05-18-2012, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwhite601 View Post

When I get it working, I can post some short clips.



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I just got a set of 46mm filters for the camera: neutral density filters ND2, ND4, and ND8, as well as a circular polarizing filter. That should allow me to keep the shutter speed at 60fps.

JVC did this with their GR-HD1, the first consumer camcorder they introduced but each subsequent camcorder released had ND filters. Not sure the reasoning behind this, but it's trivial on their part especially for each 'first' they introduce. I'm sure it's a cost factor but where's the tradeoff?

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Speaking for 60 fps, I'm getting spoiled with 60p. I'm glad JVC didn't stop at 2160,60i and went straight to 60p. That means the camera records 8 times the data rate of standard 1080i.

Yes! 60p is the new 60i LOL I'm glad they kept that also.

I'd be interested in seeing a short segment highlighting the differences with the ND filters on and off.

Thanks for sharing.

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post #110 of 159 Old 06-02-2012, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by dwhite601 View Post

One side effect of 4K recording is I burn a lot of Bluray discs. I need 5 for every 2 hours I record to backup my video. With a second set for offsite backups, that's 5 discs/hr!
.

By the time 4K really takes off, BD-XL with 100 gigs be at a reasonable price.
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post #111 of 159 Old 06-11-2012, 12:16 AM
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that's 5 discs/hr!...

Are you using dual layer BDs, just curious?

Why not back up to HDD using Raid 1?

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post #112 of 159 Old 06-19-2012, 04:53 PM
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I backup with single layer blurays. I was an early adopter of dual layer DVD's which started out being very unreliable. I don't trust dual layer Blurays either. Unfortunately, I've found that, over time, Blurays and DVD's are both unreliable anyway. Making a second backup set on a different brand has saved my data.

Now I backup on two different brand optical discs (one set off site) as well as on removable hard drives.
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post #113 of 159 Old 07-03-2012, 12:34 AM
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DWhite, I just bought the Q10, and it's my latest SD-card camera. I got my first SD-card camera about 5 years ago.

I've been backing up onto a Drobo hard disk array, and have expanded the Drobo array (much easier than a normal RAID). It is a heck of a lot more convenient than burning everything to BluRay, and if you think about it, cheaper in the long run. (Hard disks cost what now?)

The DVD-R collection I made between 5 and 10 years ago … I've regretted it ever since. I can never find what I need, in time to use it anyway. I have more luck retrieving stuff from VHS collections because at least they were labelled and organised, much better those days! And "only" three hours per E180 tape.

If I find anything good on DVD-R, I just copy it to the Drobo and chuck out the optical media. They're just not worth it.

I make and distribute the occasional BluRay as a finished product, but YouTube 1080p and 4K have sort of short-circuited this now.

CK.
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post #114 of 159 Old 07-26-2012, 11:04 PM
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I've returned from my vacation. My HMQ10 worked flawlessly. I was able to record 53 5 to 10 minute views of Oahu and Hawaii for my video window project. I spent one to two hours several on evenings transferring my memory cards to my hard drive. Including outtakes, I recorded 584Gb of 4K video and just now got it plus 4 channel sound files and my 3D video backed up onto two Bluray disc sets. With one of the video backups safely off site, I can finally relax.

The only real problem I had was at some sites the wind was so strong, my tripod shook a little. I'll have to remove the motion in post. The wind also overloaded my Zoom H2N's wind screen so I'll have to do a bit of sound editing as well.

Here is a small snaphot of one of the Waikiki views. I've also attached a 4K snapshot. The png version was a bit over this web site's 10Mb limit, so I had to convert it to jpg. I did at least use the best quality setting so the file is still quite large (5.6Mb).


vlcsnap-2012-07-26-18h58m16s153.jpg 5491k .jpg file
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post #115 of 159 Old 07-27-2012, 02:45 PM
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dwhite, I was just wondering the other day how you were doing with your new toy.wink.gif

You clearly were busy with the footage you took in Hawaii. That is a lot of storage you used.

It will be interesting to see how your video window project turns out. Thanks for the update.

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post #116 of 159 Old 07-30-2012, 04:58 PM
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Wow,

I bet that footage is to die for!!

I don't know if you stated the intent of your 'video window' project, but is this something you plan on marketing and selling or just for personal use?

I imagine the camcorder performed to your liking? Any quirks or hiccups other than the ones mentioned?

Thanks for the update.

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post #117 of 159 Old 08-06-2012, 11:23 AM
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I am getting great video from this camcorder. I can't wait to see the clips on a large, 4K monitor. I'm not having any problems with the HMQ10. It's been easy to use. It even works better at night then I thought it would. When the Olympics are over and I'm done recording my sport (Beach Volleyball), I'll merge my recording of the night time Shamu Rocks show from Sea World and post a snapshot.

Troy, I'm recording static views to use one day use as 'motion' landscapes. I got the idea from work where we have many framed photos mounted around the building of scenic landscapes from around the world. When large, 4K monitors are cheap, I'll dedicate one to being a virtual window running these clips.

Here is another of my Hawaii scenes. This one is of Maniniowali Beach on the west side of Hawaii's Big Island. It is a really nice beach with white sand.

David



vlcsnap-0078.jpg 5685k .jpg file
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post #118 of 159 Old 08-07-2012, 09:16 AM
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Good stuff,

I'm sure the detail in the video looks light years better than the VLC photo capture. What resolution monitor are you using to view the footage on now?

I didn't get a chance to pull the trigger on a HMQ10 yet, I ended up taking my daughters on a cruise down the Pacific coast line, but I have my sights set on this puppy soon (unless something comes out that's better LOL).

I just realized you're in San Diego, I was there over the weekend. I took my daughters to the San Diego Zoo on Sat (my first time going also since I've been in California). We had a great time, I got tons of footage with my current workhorse the Sony FX1000.

When I get my HMQ10 maybe we can get together for a shoot, compare notes etc.

I'm looking forward to decent 4K sets coming soon also. I've got my eye on the LG 84LM9600: 84" 4K 3D LED set that's supposed to be dropping sometime early fall. MSRP is supposed to be around 10K, but I'm sure it'll probably street for around 8 or so. I'd love to do Sony's VPL-VW1000ES, but that puppy is in the 25K range and way outta my price range right now.

Troy

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post #119 of 159 Old 08-09-2012, 08:11 AM
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I bought the Q10 a few weeks ago, and I'm so happy I did. In normal daylight, the images are amazing. I can only play it on my HD tv, but it's already really sharp. I can't wait to have a 4k tv, but I think that's not for the near future.
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post #120 of 159 Old 08-13-2012, 01:49 PM
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I bought the Q10 a few weeks ago, and I'm so happy I did. In normal daylight, the images are amazing. I can only play it on my HD tv, but it's already really sharp. I can't wait to have a 4k tv, but I think that's not for the near future.

Congrats on the purchase.

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