Best HD video camcorder for us? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 40 Old 01-11-2012, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
ALLMUSCLE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
We are having a baby soon and are looking for a New camcorder. I've never bought a HD camcorder before, I'm looking to spend under $710 with tax and shipping. I have my eye on a Canon VIXIA HV40 at B&H. What do you all recommend?

Thanks!!
ALLMUSCLE is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 40 Old 01-11-2012, 02:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Ungermann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 3,787
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALLMUSCLE View Post

We are having a baby soon and are looking for a New camcorder. I've never bought a HD camcorder before, I'm looking to spend under $710 with tax and shipping. I have my eye on a Canon VIXIA HV40 at B&H. What do you all recommend?

I recommend to stop living five years in the past.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDV
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD
Ungermann is offline  
post #3 of 40 Old 01-11-2012, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
ALLMUSCLE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Anyone else without any negativity..
ALLMUSCLE is offline  
post #4 of 40 Old 01-11-2012, 03:17 PM
Member
 
KYRandy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Panasonic TM90 or SD90, if you can find one.
KYRandy is offline  
post #5 of 40 Old 01-11-2012, 03:38 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
ALLMUSCLE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
how about the tm900?
ALLMUSCLE is offline  
post #6 of 40 Old 01-11-2012, 03:58 PM
Member
 
KYRandy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALLMUSCLE View Post

how about the tm900?

Yes, but more expensive. The 90 has a wider zoom, which is handy for inside shots. You will not see a difference of quality in normal use.
KYRandy is offline  
post #7 of 40 Old 01-11-2012, 04:09 PM
Senior Member
 
ahender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 218
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Ungermann:

As the supreme hypercritic, why not show a little respect to those who are not sitting up on the ivory tower with their vast knowledge of video.

Maybe actually be pleasant once in a while.
ahender is offline  
post #8 of 40 Old 01-11-2012, 04:10 PM
Senior Member
 
ahender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 218
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALLMUSCLE View Post

Anyone else without any negativity..

Don't mind him.

He's the only one that listens.

The TM900 would be an excellent choice.

I'm sitting here converting old footage of my child when she was 3 months old.

Whatever you get, spend adequate time using it.

Ten years from now you will love the video you took the time to take.

Alan
ahender is offline  
post #9 of 40 Old 01-11-2012, 04:18 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Ungermann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 3,787
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahender View Post

why not show a little respect to those who are not sitting up on the ivory tower with their vast knowledge of video.

Maybe actually be pleasant once in a while.

I was pleasant, I provided two links, which could help ALLMUSCLE to make a decision himself, or at least to figure out current trends in consumer video and to start thinking about features he wants and does not want.

As Alexandre Dumas's Athos said: "people ask for advice only not to follow it; or if they do follow it, it is for the sake of having someone to blame for having given it."
Ungermann is offline  
post #10 of 40 Old 01-11-2012, 04:23 PM
Senior Member
 
ahender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 218
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Just leave out the parts like "I recommend to stop living five years in the past" and it becomes a positive post.

No new member of this forum wants to hear that.
ahender is offline  
post #11 of 40 Old 01-11-2012, 04:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tingham's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 2,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALLMUSCLE View Post

We are having a baby soon and are looking for a New camcorder. I've never bought a HD camcorder before, I'm looking to spend under $710 with tax and shipping. I have my eye on a Canon VIXIA HV40 at B&H. What do you all recommend?

Thanks!!

Yes, that unit is very old. You don't want to deal with tape these days. Do you really need a top of the line consumer cam to shoot video of your newly arriving infant? Congrats btw.

Do you have prior experience shooting video with camcorders and using manual controls?

Go Phillies! Go Eagles! Go Sixers! Go Flyers!
tingham is offline  
post #12 of 40 Old 01-11-2012, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
ALLMUSCLE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks, I just want a camcorder that has a great picture.. I always thought you get what you pay for.
ALLMUSCLE is offline  
post #13 of 40 Old 01-11-2012, 05:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
xfws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,443
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 26
If your absolute budget is $700, consider a Panasonic SD90, which is under $400 at B&H.

With the remaining $300, you could buy things like extra batteries, editing software,external hard drives for backing up/archiving your files (you need to backup somewhere/don't keep everything on one drive).

What are your computer specs? With these HD/mts files; quad core, at least 3gb RAM and a decent video card are recommended.
Dual core might cut it.

If you don't have enough processing power, you may want to use some/all of that extra money towards upgrading.
xfws is offline  
post #14 of 40 Old 01-11-2012, 05:12 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tingham's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 2,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALLMUSCLE View Post

Thanks, I just want a camcorder that has a great picture.. I always thought you get what you pay for.

Most HD camcorders have great video quality. Your just paying for features and slightly better quality when you get up in price, imo.

Go to this link below and read some reviews for camcorders. I would stay away from the TM900 if you are not used to using camcorders and manual controls.

Personally I think you would be fine for a while using a good point and shoot camera that shoots very nice hd video. Your wife would like it more also. You can upgrade to a real camcorder when you child gets a little older maybe.

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/

Go Phillies! Go Eagles! Go Sixers! Go Flyers!
tingham is offline  
post #15 of 40 Old 01-11-2012, 05:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
xfws's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,443
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by tingham View Post

Personally I think you would be fine for a while using a good point and shoot camera that shoots very nice hd video. Your wife would like it more also.

That's good advice.

The Canon Powershot SX230 HS takes excellent video and nice stills, too.
$213.63 @ B&H:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...S_Digital.html

The video is 1920x1080 24p/36mbps; the files are processor-intensive.
Splash-lite, at least on my system, didn't sync the audio and video, but Vegas Platinum 11 worked good with these MOV files.

The only disadvantage from a camcorder possibly may be that this camera can only record about 20 minutes at a time into one file.
(Although it's hackable via CHDK/a firmware hack that removes the limit, among other things.)

xfws is offline  
post #16 of 40 Old 01-11-2012, 05:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bsprague's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: On the Road
Posts: 2,883
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 48 Post(s)
Liked: 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALLMUSCLE View Post

We are having a baby soon and are looking for a New camcorder. I've never bought a HD camcorder before, I'm looking to spend under $710 with tax and shipping. I have my eye on a Canon VIXIA HV40 at B&H. What do you all recommend?

Thanks!!

I should work for Sony!

I have been using a Sony HX9V along with a Panasonic SDT750 (almost the same as a 900 and more expensive than the 90) for 6 months. As a rank amateur, I get better video from the Sony. One of the reasons is that it doesn't look like a video camera and people don't react negatively to it. If I were trying to get video of my young kid, it would be my first choice. Since I don't have young kids, I point it at my young grandkids instead.

It is such a good camera and gets so many positive reviews that it is sold out many places. But, it is rumored to be available at some Costco for $289.

Until a year ago I was never interested in video. I started from scratch. Yes, Ungerman's posts are short, to the point, critical and technical. I have no idea who he really is. Yet, his generous posts on this forum have forced me to learn a lot about how this complicated video stuff works. I hope he keeps it up. I will read the links he offered.
bsprague is offline  
post #17 of 40 Old 01-11-2012, 05:55 PM
Senior Member
 
ahender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 218
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Take a look at camcorderinfo.net.

Read the reviews and get the best camera you can afford.

You can worry about all the editing later.

You have one shot at recording the life of your child.

Make the best of it.
ahender is offline  
post #18 of 40 Old 01-11-2012, 06:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Blasst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: So.California
Posts: 3,498
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALLMUSCLE View Post

We are having a baby soon and are looking for a New camcorder. I've never bought a HD camcorder before, I'm looking to spend under $710 with tax and shipping. I have my eye on a Canon VIXIA HV40 at B&H. What do you all recommend?

Thanks!!

Welcome to AVS!

It has been discussed many times here about HDV vs AVCHD, yet the HV40 is still a great camcorder for picture quality. I still shoot with HDV in addition to my Canon HF M41 and DSLR.

Take a read over here http://www.hv20.com/forum.php if you are still interested in the HV40.

The Mod Squad: New vs. Classic TV Series Opening https://vimeo.com/63119329
Blasst is offline  
post #19 of 40 Old 01-11-2012, 07:41 PM
Member
 
W Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 39
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I could start giving you all the reasons why I chose the model I did, and show you how I'm convinced it was the right choice ... for me. Others will do the same with the model they chose. But I won't. What I will do is give you what I think is the two most important considerations I have found after shooting for 30 years ... first with a Super 8film camera and then with 5 different camcorders. My advice: First, get one now, while it's still time to get shots of your kids while they are young. Second, get one with a wide angle lens ... equivalent to a 28mm film (35mm) camera. Not an add-on lens. A lens right in the camera.
W Jones is offline  
post #20 of 40 Old 01-11-2012, 09:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Ungermann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 3,787
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 26
During the last 5 years I owned at least 10 different camcorders including three professional ones, and all of them had their pros and cons.

Tape is almost dead. No reason to invest in it now. The Canon HG10 has the same sensor block as the HV20/HV30/HV40 and records nice video. I bought mine on eBay for about $200. For example: http://www.ebay.com/itm/PERFECTLY-WO...item2eba8a1846. No reason to pay a lot if you can get a good camcorder for less. The first leap was made with HDV, the next leap was made with AVCHD (in media if not in quality). Current 1080p60 models are evolutionary, not revolutionary.
Ungermann is offline  
post #21 of 40 Old 01-11-2012, 10:42 PM
Senior Member
 
dclark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 426
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
HDV looks great. I just got back from a 9 day cruise to the southern carrib
and used a combo of HDV from my Canon HV40 and avchd lite from my Panny lumix fz 35 super zoom and my daughters water proof lumix cam. The avchd lite is what panny calls 720p mode, I think it is 8bps. Sony claims it to be about equal to HDV in quality, but to my eyes, the HDV is much better.Motion artifacts were bad, especially the droplets of water at a water fall. I am sure the anti-hdv zealots will say to get a camera that can do avchd at a higher rate, but at 8bps, that is about 1 bit per gig of memory- you need 6g for 60 minutes. Doubling the rate will make things look better, but all the memory adds up.Quality memory for 60 minutes will cost about $20, for HDV, I get 60 minute tapes for around $2. Advantage HDV.
What will you do with the footage? If you keep it on the memory cards, they can go corrupt in under ten years. Burn to a DVD? They can rot in under ten years too. Put onto hard drive? Those can fail as well. So, there go your memories, no long term back up! HDV tape? Tape is good for 50-100 years.
Advantage- HDV. I haven't even touch the ease in editing HDV compared to avchd.
Get a HV40, great cam, great picture, great for the long term. Compare the cost of shooting 40 hours of HDV vs 40 hours on a avchd cam and the ability to archive your stuff, you'll see that HDV is the winner here.
If you want to see what HDV can look like, go rent Baghdad ER or Encounters at the Bottom of the World- both were shot with Sony HDV cams and even they don't look as good as what a Canon can shoot.
dclark is offline  
post #22 of 40 Old 01-12-2012, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
ALLMUSCLE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks all for your help! I'm going to get either the Sony HDR-XR160 Or Panasonic HDC-TM90
ALLMUSCLE is offline  
post #23 of 40 Old 01-12-2012, 06:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Paulo Teixeira's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 2,677
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by dclark View Post

I am sure the anti-hdv zealots will say to get a camera that can do avchd at a higher rate,

I'm not sure what you mean by anti HDV zealots. Why is the HV40 the last Canon camcorder to shoot in HDV? HDV is an old format that is replaced by AVCHD and hard drives are getting very cheap.

You know comparing it to a camera that is not only a still camera first, but also using a very, very poor compression codec is a poor comparison. If you really want a fair comparison, it should be compared to the Canon G10 and again, hard drives are getting very cheap and make back-ups.

Have anyone seen tests done with an HV series camcorder to the G10? That would be interesting to watch.
Paulo Teixeira is offline  
post #24 of 40 Old 01-12-2012, 11:02 PM
Senior Member
 
dclark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 426
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

I'm not sure what you mean by anti HDV zealots. Why is the HV40 the last Canon camcorder to shoot in HDV?

Gee, why are mp3 downloads replacing CD's? It must be because they are superior, right?
dclark is offline  
post #25 of 40 Old 01-13-2012, 07:05 AM
Member
 
KYRandy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have used both Sony and Canon HDV camcorders over the last 4 years. They do produce nice clean video. And the HDV footage is a whole lot easier and faster to edit in most all NLE's. The resolution is 1440x1080i, as compared to todays AVCHD 1900x1080.

But I agree that it's a fading technology and would not invest in it today. Your PC needs a firewire port ( for real time transfer) in order to import the video, and many new PC's have stopped including that, nor do people want to take the time to transfer the video. The overall (slower) operation speed of the HV30 (tape), cannot compare with todays latest batch of HD units. Focus is also SLOW. But some people still like the tape look of video, better than AVCHD.

I am switching to HD card base units for my Main and secondary units, but still keeping my HDV for 3rd and 4th cameras.
KYRandy is offline  
post #26 of 40 Old 01-13-2012, 07:29 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Ungermann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 3,787
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 26
dclark, you are not only living in the past, you use a lame approach to try to win the argument. What is the relation of CD/MP3 to HDV/AVCHD? Why even comparing these? Both HDV and AVCHD are compressed, but AVCHD uses better compression technique and as such is superior. AVCHD @ 24 Mbit/s is superior to HDV, period. It is even comparable to 35 Mbit/s XDCAM EX: http://provideocoalition.com/index.p...chd_camcorder/

Cassettes? Where are you going to find an HDV deck in 100 years?

As to CDs vs MP3s, no one replaces CDs with MP3 anymore. There are at least three technologies to replace (or augment) CDs: MP3 for low-end, FLAC as direct replacement, and DVD-Audio for high end. My pocket audio player can play FLAC files. Even if it could not, price of modern memory cards is low enough for me to put 5-6 CD rips in uncompressed WAV format onto one 4GB card for total cost well below $10.
Ungermann is offline  
post #27 of 40 Old 01-13-2012, 08:03 AM
Senior Member
 
dclark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 426
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

dclark, you are not only living in the past, you use a lame approach to try to win the argument. What is the relation of CD/MP3 to HDV/AVCHD? Why even comparing these? Both HDV and AVCHD are compressed, but AVCHD uses better compression technique and as such is superior. AVCHD @ 24 Mbit/s is superior to HDV, period. It is even comparable to 35 Mbit/s XDCAM EX: http://provideocoalition.com/index.p...chd_camcorder/

Cassettes? Where are you going to find an HDV deck in 100 years?

As to CDs vs MP3s, no one replaces CDs with MP3 anymore. There are at least three technologies to replace (or augment) CDs: MP3 for low-end, FLAC as direct replacement, and DVD-Audio for high end. My pocket audio player can play FLAC files. Even if it could not, price of modern memory cards is low enough for me to put 5-6 CD rips in uncompressed WAV format onto one 4GB card for total cost well below $10.

CD's are being replaced with downloads, that is a fact that is a widely reported fact. The only music media that that has shown growth in sales is vinyl, which many said was dead. Well, surprise! DVDA and SACD are near dead, with few releases (I have a large collection of them as well, my last purchase was Rush "Moving Pictures" )
As for finding an hdv player in 100 years, I only hope to live long enough to have that problem. My local audio repair store still has a functioning Edison wax roll player, I see no reason why my cameras won't last at least half as long ( I have totl cassette decks that are 30 years old and still work fine).
As for avchd, I actually do use it, recorded about 2 hours of footage on my cruise last week (mostly underwater footage and stuff involving swimming in caves in Dominica). I just have 6 more hours or so on HDV.
dclark is offline  
post #28 of 40 Old 01-13-2012, 08:36 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Ungermann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 3,787
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 40 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by dclark View Post

CD's are being replaced with downloads

Which does not have to be MP3.

Beauty of file-based and streamable formats is that they can use different encoding and different media. HDV, on the other hand, is confined to MPEG-2 and cassettes. You can record HDV onto a tapeless recorder, but by definition of HDV this will not be HDV anymore.
Ungermann is offline  
post #29 of 40 Old 01-13-2012, 01:39 PM
Member
 
JPD2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 26
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
[quote=Ungermann;21478201]I recommend to stop living five years in the past.



That was a nasty response to a perfectly polite question. What are you Ungermann, the bully of this forum ? I'm new to this forum, having been a member of archery forums and dpreview in the past, so am very familiar with internet forums. Are you the bully boy that gives smart arse answers to newbies? Do I have to ignore your responses when I post. Are you a keyboard warrior Ungermann ?
JPD2 is offline  
post #30 of 40 Old 01-13-2012, 07:33 PM
Member
 
rbkhockey83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 16
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'm just saying... ungermann is right though.
rbkhockey83 is offline  
Reply Camcorders

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off