BlackMagic Cinema Camera - 2.5K res, 12-bit RAW video camera for $3K! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 62 Old 04-16-2012, 08:25 PM - Thread Starter
 
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http://www.blackmagic-design.com/pro...ccinemacamera/

Also comes with $1,500 worth of software for free, Thunderbolt and HD-SDI connectors, capacitive touchscreen, easy metadata cataloging, optional 10-bit ProRes recording, BYO SSD, 13 stops od Dynamic Range, and more.

A review: http://johnbrawley.wordpress.com/201...-from-the-top/
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post #2 of 62 Old 04-16-2012, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by lwright84 View Post

http://www.blackmagic-design.com/pro...ccinemacamera/

Also comes with $1,500 worth of software for free, Thunderbolt and HD-SDI connectors, capacitive touchscreen, easy metadata cataloging, optional 10-bit ProRes recording, BYO SSD, 13 stops od Dynamic Range, and more.

A review: http://johnbrawley.wordpress.com/201...-from-the-top/

Posted this a little while ago. I can't wait.
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post #3 of 62 Old 04-16-2012, 09:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by MTyson View Post

Posted this a little while ago. I can't wait.

Hah, I even skimmed the titles first. Your title was funny and I didn't even realize it was about the same thing, lol.

If you want to surround yourself with excited, like-minded folk... check out the thread over at dvxuser that has been blowing up all day long since the info came out:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread...!-2-5k-for-3k/
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post #4 of 62 Old 04-16-2012, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lwright84 View Post

Hah, I even skimmed the titles first. Your title was funny and I didn't even realize it was about the same thing, lol.

If you want to surround yourself with excited, like-minded folk... check out the thread over at dvxuser that has been blowing up all day long since the info came out:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread...!-2-5k-for-3k/

Yeah, I should have made my subject a bit more clear on the specs, but the wait for such a camera, especially after broken promises by Red and such took over. I feel like I found MY camera finally.

I'm already on DVXUser. Love that forum. lol. I'm ecstatic about this camera primarily due to the Dynamic range, RAW format and 12-bit/10-bit capability. The 5" touch screen is awesome too. Though I'd still like to use a larger external if possible.

It's about time someone listened to low budget indie filmmakers. I commend Black Magic for this. Only thing I wish they would have offered is a Super 35mm sensor. Going fast and wide may be quite difficult. First I heard it was Micro 4/3 size, then 16mm size. Not sure exactly what the crop ratio will be.
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post #5 of 62 Old 04-16-2012, 09:36 PM - Thread Starter
 
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It's inbetween S16 and M4/3, though they keep calling it "Four Thirds" on the floor, apparently. It seems they sacrificed S35/FF so that they could included all the other awesome features and keep the price under $3,000. Considering anything over S16 is perfectly fine, I think they made the right choice. I love that I can use consumer SSDs too, Black Friday here I come!

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post #6 of 62 Old 04-17-2012, 04:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lwright84 View Post

It's inbetween S16 and M4/3, though they keep calling it "Four Thirds" on the floor, apparently. It seems they sacrificed S35/FF so that they could included all the other awesome features and keep the price under $3,000. Considering anything over S16 is perfectly fine, I think they made the right choice. I love that I can use consumer SSDs too, Black Friday here I come!



This is amazing how very close to the original Red Scarlet concept of 3k for $3k this is (which turned into a $16,000 S35 camera instead. lol) along with $1,500 in software & no overpriced proprietary accessories like with Red either (ie; $50 lens caps, $1,800 for barely acceptable storage capacity)!!!???

I hope they make one with a Micro 4/3 mount (Heard they plan to) due to the increased popularity of fast wide lenses. One particular negative of this camera is the awkward sensor size and with EF mount going fast and wide will be difficult. The Tokina 11-16mm F2.8 lens is going to suddenly see a HUGE spike in sales. lol.

I am already researching lenses. I'm stoked! Besides the lens crop the only thing I'm worried about giving up is the low light, but with such a price I can keep my T2i or maybe upgrade to a future T4i for my low light go to camera if needed. Or use the extra money I may have spent on the FS100U or FS700 for lighting.

60p would have been nice, even at a reduce frame rate, but I can't complain after all they have offered. I'm sure they will offer more in the future. Until then Twixtor will be a useful tool for slow mo.

Great times! I'm excited to see the ripple effect this will cause in the next few years to comes, especially if they decide to do a follow up S35 camera.
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post #7 of 62 Old 04-17-2012, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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post #8 of 62 Old 04-17-2012, 12:59 PM
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I'm kind of surprised by how little attention this revolutionary camera at a mind blowing price, even without including $1,600 in free software, is getting on this forum. You'd think it was the second coming judging by DVXUser forum. lol. Maybe it's too professional for consumers on this forum, which is understandable. Though I think it was designed with not just pros in mind.
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post #9 of 62 Old 04-17-2012, 01:38 PM
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This sounds like my next camera. I'm going to have to follow closer on here. When is the projected release date.
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post #10 of 62 Old 04-17-2012, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by gso125 View Post

This sounds like my next camera. I'm going to have to follow closer on here. When is the projected release date.

Late July!!! One place is taking preorders at around $2895. About $100 or so cheaper. I'll have to search for it again.

Thanks goodness a company with business practices the polar opposite of Red. This is very close to what the original Scarlet was supposed to be, minus the three years of waiting as it evolved without knowledge, into a $16,000 Super 35mm camera.
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post #11 of 62 Old 04-17-2012, 02:20 PM
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Watched a few clips about it looks promising. It's only 24p-30p but that ok been using a lot more 24p in my videos lately. What lens is it going to use, was it med formate stuff.?? I'll have to watch some more sounds great so far.
Ef mount ..canon, I have a bunch of Nikon lens but no canon. Have to get a few new lens to.
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post #12 of 62 Old 04-17-2012, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gso125 View Post

Watched a few clips about it looks promising. It's only 24p-30p but that ok been using a lot more 24p in my videos lately. What lens is it going to use, was it med formate stuff.?? I'll have to watch some more sounds great so far.
Ef mount ..canon, I have a bunch of Nikon lens but no canon. Have to get a few new lens to.

EF / ZE electronic mount
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post #13 of 62 Old 04-17-2012, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gso125 View Post

Watched a few clips about it looks promising. It's only 24p-30p but that ok been using a lot more 24p in my videos lately. What lens is it going to use, was it med formate stuff.?? I'll have to watch some more sounds great so far.
Ef mount ..canon, I have a bunch of Nikon lens but no canon. Have to get a few new lens to.

A lot of people are already expecting the Tokina 11-16mm F2.8 (throughout the zoom range) to see a big spike in sales. One of the best first options for this camera until they release a Micro 4/3 mount.

I'm thinking the Tokina above will be the first lens I'll add if I don't wait for a Micro 4/3 mount, besides the 50mm F1.8 that I already have (which will be about a 115mm F1.8 telephoto lens on the BlackMagic Camera). Next one may be the Rokinon 24mm F1.4, then Rokinon 35mm F1.4. If I need a big telephoto I'll get the Rokinon 85mm F1.4 (about 195mm on then BMC). The Rokinon's are designed for video manual focus.
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post #14 of 62 Old 04-18-2012, 07:29 AM
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I have to say though, if it can't deal with rolling shutter really well I'm not going to consider it.
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post #15 of 62 Old 04-18-2012, 07:41 AM - Thread Starter
 
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post #16 of 62 Old 04-18-2012, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
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As always a classic. "It's ok, he can still use all his EF lenses" LOL
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post #17 of 62 Old 04-18-2012, 05:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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post #18 of 62 Old 04-18-2012, 11:36 PM
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Brand new clip: http://johnbrawley.wordpress.com/201...ackmagic-clip/

LOL. I was just coming here to post that clip. That clip looks great. The dynamic range, colors, everything look nice and this is before the sensor calibration. Sweet!
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post #19 of 62 Old 04-19-2012, 07:00 AM
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Playing around with some samples from the Black Magic Cinema Camera:

ORIGINAL RAW (not the actual "RAW" image, but a JPEG of the RAW Flat image):


A Color Grade I did with photoshop:

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post #20 of 62 Old 04-19-2012, 07:08 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Ya, even the compressed JPGs of the compressed video still have plenty of room to work with. Related:

http://vimeo.com/40548902

http://vimeo.com/40559110
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post #21 of 62 Old 04-19-2012, 07:10 AM
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Sorry just not impressed at all with either photo..especially for a camera that cost that much. What do i know but regardless, both photos are horrible from my take.
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post #22 of 62 Old 04-19-2012, 07:59 AM
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Sorry just not impressed at all with either photo..especially for a camera that cost that much. What do i know but regardless, both photos are horrible from my take.

RAW photos are supposed to be flat and washed out to retain the most highlight and shadow detail for post grading as opposed to a baked in look where you can no longer get certain looks. With RAW your white balance, exposure, colors, etc can all be graded in post.

The RAW photo is supposed to be horrible...it's a starting point...no prebaked in look....give you the ability to get many different looks. That's how movies are shot to begin with, flat and washed out to preserve highlights and shadows. Pretty much all movies look like the first photo before the colorist gets ahold of it.

Take a look at this video of the camera and if you don't appreciate this video that is blowing away everyone right now then I'd have to recommend an optometrist. lol:

http://vimeopro.com/johnbrawleytests...video/40584879

The Dynamic range is simply fantastic.
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post #23 of 62 Old 04-19-2012, 11:39 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Zacuto shows off the BMCC attached to their rig: http://www.facebook.com/ZacutoUSA/po...50760553227402

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post #24 of 62 Old 04-19-2012, 05:50 PM - Thread Starter
 
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post #25 of 62 Old 04-19-2012, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTyson View Post

One particular negative of this camera is the awkward sensor size and with EF mount going fast and wide will be difficult.

use primes


The Tokina 11-16mm F2.8 lens is going to suddenly see a HUGE spike in sales. lol.

How good is the Tokina 11-16mm F2.8 ?

It is not a good lens for stills - check out this test & the 3 star rating:
http://www.photozone.de/nikon_ff/594...2828ff?start=2

it sure isn't CANON L glass !

Maybe the Tokina is OK with video ?
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post #26 of 62 Old 04-19-2012, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Pepster returns View Post

How good is the Tokina 11-16mm F2.8 ?

It is not a good lens for stills - check out this test & the 3 star rating:
http://www.photozone.de/nikon_ff/594...2828ff?start=2

it sure isn't CANON L glass !

Maybe the Tokina is OK with video ?

I've always heard nothing but fantastic things about it on forums for people using it for video. It has 5 star average rating out of 84 on Amazon for the Nikon version and a 4.5/5 for the EOS version with 63 review (47 out of 63 rating it 5-stars, 10 4/5 stars, 2 3/5 stars, 3 2/5 stars 1 1-Star. You can't please everyone. Maybe some people ended up with bad copies and just had bad luck.

Another great options is the Rokinon 14mm F2.8. They are designed for Video manual focus and also make a great 24mm F1.4, 35mm F1.4 and 85mm F1.4 (obviously will be 2.3x that with the BMC).
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post #27 of 62 Old 04-20-2012, 02:06 AM
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I'm tossing up between this and the JVC 4K camera. I'm just after a true 1080p camera with 4:2:2 output.

It's a good time for this camera to come onto the market since SSDs are getting down to price of HD-cam SR tapes.
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post #28 of 62 Old 04-20-2012, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by person12 View Post

I'm tossing up between this and the JVC 4K camera. I'm just after a true 1080p camera with 4:2:2 output.

It's a good time for this camera to come onto the market since SSDs are getting down to price of HD-cam SR tapes.

Have you considered the Sony PMW-100?
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post #29 of 62 Old 04-20-2012, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTyson View Post

RAW photos are supposed to be flat and washed out to retain the most highlight and shadow detail for post grading as opposed to a baked in look where you can no longer get certain looks. With RAW your white balance, exposure, colors, etc can all be graded in post.

The RAW photo is supposed to be horrible...it's a starting point...no prebaked in look....give you the ability to get many different looks. That's how movies are shot to begin with, flat and washed out to preserve highlights and shadows. Pretty much all movies look like the first photo before the colorist gets ahold of it.

Take a look at this video of the camera and if you don't appreciate this video that is blowing away everyone right now then I'd have to recommend an optometrist. lol:

http://vimeopro.com/johnbrawleytests...video/40584879

The Dynamic range is simply fantastic.


But nothing about the second picture even remotely looks natural or crisp and the colors look artificial.
Hey, if your happy with it then that is all that matters.

Nope links didn't impress me either...expect a whole lot more for that kind of money.
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post #30 of 62 Old 04-20-2012, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeAnna2112 View Post

But nothing about the second picture even remotely looks natural or crisp and the colors look artificial.

After looking at those two pictures I did a lot of reading yesterday. What I think I learned was that the second picture was supposed to show how far you could go with the color from a RAW image. It would be sort of like getting a new speaker system and, for a test, you turn the volume to max. Then, the rest of the time you own them, you set the volume at your version of normal.

What I think I read was that the state of the art in full blown blockbuster production is to have a "colorist" get it right after the shoot. Those of us impressed with AVCHD and 1080p cameras, expect to get it right during the shooting of our amateur videos. The Hollywood directors expect the shooter to capture everything RAW and the "colorist" is part of the editing team.

What is hoped for is a camera that captures a depth of exposure and, in this case, I think they are bragging about 13 F stops worth of depth for every shade of color.

None of it made sense until I read what the included Black Magic DaVinci Resolve software is for. Apparently video from the Cinema Camera is presumed to be unwatchable until processed through DaVinci. The specialized console that Black Magic sells to "colorists" for the DaVinci software is $30K! It has more knobs, buttons, dials and displays than an airliner's cockpit.

Am I understanding this? The workflow goes from RAW shooting, to the DaVinci colorist, then to editing in Premier Pro, then adding any After Effects and then to distribution media?

Bill
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