Anyone have a Sony NEX7? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 226 Old 05-17-2012, 04:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Railfan View Post

Would be interesting to see this on a big plasma, and then see similar footage shot with the NEX 7.

I would too, with both cameras set up properly and at the same focal length!
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post #92 of 226 Old 05-17-2012, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Railfan View Post

Wow, love those videos of the Grand Canyon, etc. They are indeed very sharp and clear. Does justice to the scenery. Having a degree in the Geological sciences makes me appreciative of the fine detail shown in the rock formations and strata, with this camera. Would be interesting to see this on a big plasma, and then see similar footage shot with the NEX 7.

Must stress they are not my films,its the ptoblems not using your name ie chris hull as the user name on forums may cause,how do you change user name on here.
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post #93 of 226 Old 05-17-2012, 05:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

When I get to those locations, I'll be sure to take my NEX to compare.

http://vimeo.com/40268487 exerts from a forthcoming film not my work sadly.

Make sure not to use 720P,24p or better still 30P
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post #94 of 226 Old 05-17-2012, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Here are some test clips I shot with the NEX7 (they do look much better on a large screen 1080p HDTV). It appears to me that Vimeo messes with the frame rate and files a bit, so motion and clarity is not as good as it appears on my HDTV.

I apologize for the shakiness in some of these clips. I was carrying several things while testing and shooting hand-held in addition to not really bracing the camera properly. We've also had many windy days here in the NE. OK, enough with the excuses.

I can post better clips on.

At any rate, here ya go:

https://vimeo.com/42340037

https://vimeo.com/42338588

https://vimeo.com/42341190

https://vimeo.com/42341890
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post #95 of 226 Old 05-17-2012, 08:11 AM
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The last video in the backyard - I would like to see you take the same one with the GH2 - you will see quite a bit more detail in the trees and leaves and even the grass.

The Sony appears cleaner because of the noise reduction, but there is definitely detail that is squashed to get to that point. If you like to pan a lot in your videos handheld, you obviously would not want to use the 1080p24 mode of the GH2 (or pan slower).

Hey, I sold my GH2 - I preferred the look of the Sonys as well. I love slowing down 1080p60 to 1080p24 in post for slow motion (.40 playback). Looks much better than using Twixtor. But, all things being equal, if you take a GH2 and put it on a tripod and pan slowly it will out-resolve the NEX/Alpha cameras by quite a bit detail-wise.
But I shoot my kids - so I want 60p and better colors and IS, so I went with Sony.
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post #96 of 226 Old 05-17-2012, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Here are some test clips I shot with the NEX7 (they do look much better on a large screen 1080p HDTV). It appears to me that Vimeo messes with the frame rate and files a bit, so motion and clarity is not as good as it appears on my HDTV.

I apologize for the shakiness in some of these clips. I was carrying several things while testing and shooting hand-held in addition to not really bracing the camera properly. We've also had many windy days here in the NE. OK, enough with the excuses.

I can post better clips on.

At any rate, here ya go:

https://vimeo.com/42340037

https://vimeo.com/42338588

https://vimeo.com/42341190

https://vimeo.com/42341890

Ken its impossible for me to tell much from those,i need to see some similar footage to the canyon films,even if its only any varied country but no panning and on a tripod,from what glimses i see the footage does not look as sharp as those canyon films but like i say not realy possible to tell.Colors good.
Ken are you as cute as your cat
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post #97 of 226 Old 05-17-2012, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flintyplus View Post

Ken its impossible for me to tell much from those,i need to see some similar footage to the canyon films,even if its only any varied country but no panning and on a tripod,from what glimses i see the footage does not look as sharp as those canyon films but like i say not realy possible to tell.Colors good.
Ken are you as cute as your cat

Flinty the GH2 is sharper, no matter what Ken thinks. I owned both at the same time; the 7 and the GH2.
I sold the GH2 though, so what does that tell you? Extreme sharpness and detail aren't the only keys to making good video.
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post #98 of 226 Old 05-17-2012, 08:34 AM
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Also you can find videos comparing the GH2 and the VG20 on Vimeo. Same basically as the NEX-7 video wise except for the 7 overheating (and audio controls and form factor are different).
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post #99 of 226 Old 05-17-2012, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shield View Post

Flinty the GH2 is sharper, no matter what Ken thinks. I owned both at the same time; the 7 and the GH2.
I sold the GH2 though, so what does that tell you? Extreme sharpness and detail aren't the only keys to making good video.

https://vimeo.com/40268487
Is this not good video then.
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post #100 of 226 Old 05-17-2012, 08:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shield View Post

Flinty the GH2 is sharper, no matter what Ken thinks. I owned both at the same time; the 7 and the GH2.
I sold the GH2 though, so what does that tell you? Extreme sharpness and detail aren't the only keys to making good video.

Absolutely couldn't disagree with you more Shield. I've shown it to two other people, one of whom thought it was a 'trick question' since the disparity was that great.

Remember I'm talking about viewing on a 60" Elite where differences are easier to spot. The GH2 is noisy and has quite a bit of edge enhancement that makes some think there's detail that's there that's not. It's an old trick used by display manufacturers and camera makers. The Sony, despite the smoother picture, has obviously more detail than the GH2.

Trust me Shield, I'm not making this up, the results are what they are. At any rate I'll upload two of those clips I just shot with both cams.

I've always noticed, no matter what HD camera I've used (including large 3-chip prosumer HD cams), the video always looks so much better on a good quality HDTV. I've seen some video that looks 'fuzzy' on the computer but on the TV it's razor sharp. I'm not just talking about the GH2 vs the NEX7, but all HD video.

Hey, one thing we can all agree on, these tools are great!
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post #101 of 226 Old 05-17-2012, 09:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flintyplus View Post

https://vimeo.com/40268487
Is this not good video then.

Flinty, nobody said it isn't. But there are many cameras around that can do that. The film makers use considerable post-production editing, grading etc. to produce very pleasing results. As one review on the NEX7 said, you can absolutely use it professionally if you know what you're doing.

That's true of many cameras isn't it?
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post #102 of 226 Old 05-17-2012, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Absolutely couldn't disagree with you more Shield. I've shown it to two other people, one of whom thought it was a 'trick question' since the disparity was that great.

Remember I'm talking about viewing on a 60" Elite where differences are easier to spot. The GH2 is noisy and has quite a bit of edge enhancement that makes some think there's detail that's there that's not. It's an old trick used by display manufacturers and camera makers. The Sony, despite the smoother picture, has obviously more detail than the GH2.

Trust me Shield, I'm not making this up, the results are what they are. At any rate I'll upload two of those clips I just shot with both cams.

I've always noticed, no matter what HD camera I've used (including large 3-chip prosumer HD cams), the video always looks so much better on a good quality HDTV. I've seen some video that looks 'fuzzy' on the computer but on the TV it's razor sharp. I'm not just talking about the GH2 vs the NEX7, but all HD video.

Hey, one thing we can all agree on, these tools are great!

Ken, you're killing me here. Do you think you're the only one who views their content back on a high end 60" 1080p panel? I have a 60" Sony EX-700, 2010 model. The GH2 is just sharper. You need to stop it Ken; you're viewing this with homer glasses on. The NEX is a fine camera, but it's just...not...sharper...than...the...GH2. Period.

Also, a nice IPS computer panel will show you the difference even more detail-wise.

I am not going to bother trying to convince you Ken, just like I'm not going to convince you that your 7 will overheat this summer for clips over 5-6 minutes.
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post #103 of 226 Old 05-17-2012, 09:04 AM
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Also Ken, what glass do you have for the GH2? Just the 20mm and 14-140? There are other better sharper lenses, like the 25mm F/1.4 and the 14-50 F/2.8-3.5.
Perhaps with your glass the Sony is sharper. Don't know.
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post #104 of 226 Old 05-17-2012, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Flinty, nobody said it isn't. But there are many cameras around that can do that. The film makers use considerable post-production editing, grading etc. to produce very pleasing results. As one review on the NEX7 said, you can absolutely use it professionally if you know what you're doing.

That's true of many cameras isn't it?

Ken read all the responses and answers on the film and tell the bloke he does no know what he is doing and using the wrong camera,
Not much post production so it says.
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post #105 of 226 Old 05-17-2012, 09:18 AM
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No comparison tests meen anything to me unless the GH2 is not on 72P or 1080i.
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post #106 of 226 Old 05-17-2012, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's the two clips. As I've said before, the disparities are much greater on a 60" HDTV. We shall agree to disagree, but I find the noise & enhancement on the GH2 so much greater than the more natural looking NEX footage. It's the same thing I pointed out in some of those A/Bs. But some people love edge enhancements & oversharpening.

https://vimeo.com/42346614

https://vimeo.com/42346543
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post #107 of 226 Old 05-17-2012, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shield View Post

Ken, you're killing me here. Do you think you're the only one who views their content back on a high end 60" 1080p panel? I have a 60" Sony EX-700, 2010 model. The GH2 is just sharper. You need to stop it Ken; you're viewing this with homer glasses on. The NEX is a fine camera, but it's just...not...sharper...than...the...GH2. Period.

Also, a nice IPS computer panel will show you the difference even more detail-wise.

I am not going to bother trying to convince you Ken, just like I'm not going to convince you that your 7 will overheat this summer for clips over 5-6 minutes.

Why do you insist that it's you that's right? You can't seem to accept what I see. I think you see edge enhancement and interpret that as detail. It's absolutely not. But many people are similarly fooled. As I said we shall agree to disagree. It aint just me buddy. As I said I showed clips to two other people and both absolutely said without hesitation that the NEX was sharper.

So it's not just my rose-colored glasses. Again, I could care less about who won. If the Sony didn't perform it would have gone back. I've got a great camcorder in the XA10 and I have the GH2. So it made absolutely no difference to me.

Returning a unit that didn't meet my expectations wouldn't have been the first time!
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post #108 of 226 Old 05-17-2012, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by flintyplus View Post

Ken read all the responses and answers on the film and tell the bloke he does no know what he is doing and using the wrong camera,
Not much post production so it says.

Where did I say the 'bloke doesn't know what he's doing'? Man oh man guys, you need to take it down about 10 levels. I merely said people who know what they're doing (and those guys obviously do since the movie looks very well made) can get similar results with other good cameras too. Do you think the GH2 is the only camera that can do that?
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post #109 of 226 Old 05-17-2012, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shield View Post

Also Ken, what glass do you have for the GH2? Just the 20mm and 14-140? There are other better sharper lenses, like the 25mm F/1.4 and the 14-50 F/2.8-3.5.
Perhaps with your glass the Sony is sharper. Don't know.

Yes, those are the two lenses I have. But likewise, there are far better lenses for the Sony. So both cams had their stock lenses and I see no great advantage to one or the other.

Look guys, these are both great cameras and everyone has their own personal choice. But there's no way anyone can or will talk me into denying what my eyes clearly see and other people see when I show them the tests on my HDTV.
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post #110 of 226 Old 05-17-2012, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Here's the two clips. As I've said before, the disparities are much greater on a 60" HDTV. We shall agree to disagree, but I find the noise & enhancement on the GH2 so much greater than the more natural looking NEX footage. It's the same thing I pointed out in some of those A/Bs. But some people love edge enhancements & oversharpening.

https://vimeo.com/42346614

https://vimeo.com/42346543

confirm which is which and what setting and camera mode the GH2 is on.
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post #111 of 226 Old 05-17-2012, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Where did I say the 'bloke doesn't know what he's doing'? Man oh man guys, you need to take it down about 10 levels. I merely said people who know what they're doing (and those guys obviously do since the movie looks very well made) can get similar results with other good cameras too. Do you think the GH2 is the only camera that can do that?

Regarding the bottom line,i have not seen anything as good from anything other than expensive pro gear,wish your test was just strait views.
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post #112 of 226 Old 05-17-2012, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by flintyplus View Post

confirm which is which and what setting and camera mode the GH2 is on.

Ending in 543 is the NEX7 @1080 60p (the best setting for the NEX)

Ending in 614 is the GH2 @720p (what people claim is the best setting for the GH2).
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post #113 of 226 Old 05-17-2012, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by flintyplus View Post

Regarding the bottom line,i have not seen anything as good from anything other than expensive pro gear,wish your test was just strait views.

I can easily do that. I'll shoot & post later on.

As for these films, there have been many excellent ones shot with Canons.
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post #114 of 226 Old 05-17-2012, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I can easily do that. I'll shoot & post later on.

As for these films, there have been many excellent ones shot with Canons.

Ken 720P is not the highest res on GH2s honest ,but i am now more surprised than ever,on my full res pc screen the GH2 looks sharper,that is honest.
Regarding films Canons DSLRs can have a nice look but we all know they shoot low resolution in the extreme.
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post #115 of 226 Old 05-17-2012, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Here's the two clips. As I've said before, the disparities are much greater on a 60" HDTV. We shall agree to disagree, but I find the noise & enhancement on the GH2 so much greater than the more natural looking NEX footage. It's the same thing I pointed out in some of those A/Bs. But some people love edge enhancements & oversharpening.

https://vimeo.com/42346614

https://vimeo.com/42346543

I take it the 1st one is GH2 @ 720p? You should really try a 1080p24 one, even if you have to pan slowly. Or patch your GH2 to the latest firmware and do 1080p30 (High bitrate setting). This isn't a hack but a Panasonic firmware release.
Shawn
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post #116 of 226 Old 05-17-2012, 10:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by flintyplus View Post

Ken 720P is not the highest res on GH2s honest ,but i am now more surprised than ever,on my full res pc screen the GH2 looks sharper,that is honest.
Regarding films Canons DSLRs can have a nice look but we all know they shoot low resolution in the extreme.

OK Flinty, whatever. I should have asked you PRIOR to you asking me which was which.

There is so much mud in the GH2 footage compared to the NEX (not sure how you couldn't see that) to say nothing of the edge enhancement. But whatever, I'm glad you love your GH2.
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post #117 of 226 Old 05-17-2012, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

But likewise, there are far better lenses for the Sony.

Ken, here's the lens lineup right now for the NEX bodies:

18-55 F/3.5-F/5.6 kit lens
18-200 F/3.5-F/5.6
16mm pancake F/2.8
24mm F/1.8 Zeiss (NO IS)
55-200 mm F/4-5.6 or something
and 2 Sigma lenses; 19mm and 30mm F/2.8's.

So which ones are "far better" than the kit? The 24mm Zeiss? Ok, it's $1000 and is a fixed prime. The 16mm pancake has some problems with vignetting and purple fringing, and isn't that sharp wide open.

With the micro-four thirds, I can get:
7-14mm F/4
12mm F/1.6
12mm F/2
14mm F/2.5
17mm F/2.8
19mm F/2.8 Sigma
20mm F/1.7
25mm F/.95
25mm F/1.4
30mm F/2.8 Sigma
45mm F/1.8
45mm F/2.8
14-42
14-45
45-175 power zoom
45-200
100-300
14-140mm
and this doesn't include the $90 adapter where you would get all the great 4/3rds lenses.

This is one of the weaknesses by far of the NEX lineup, which is why I went with Alpha.
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post #118 of 226 Old 05-17-2012, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shield View Post

I take it the 1st one is GH2 @ 720p? You should really try a 1080p24 one, even if you have to pan slowly. Or patch your GH2 to the latest firmware and do 1080p30 (High bitrate setting). This isn't a hack but a Panasonic firmware release.
Shawn

I'm not bothering with firmware updates at this point Shield. The GH2 will be sold within the next week or so.

Shield, what did you get for the GH2 and what did you sell it with?
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post #119 of 226 Old 05-17-2012, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

OK Flinty, whatever. I should have asked you PRIOR to you asking me which was which.

There is so much mud in the GH2 footage compared to the NEX (not sure how you couldn't see that) to say nothing of the edge enhancement. But whatever, I'm glad you love your GH2.

Ken, go update your GH2 to the latest firmware to get the 1080p/30 High bitrate. You will probably really then see the difference.

Shawn
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post #120 of 226 Old 05-17-2012, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Well from what I've read the 18-200 is a sharper lens than what I've got now, but I'm not sure. If it's as sharp as the kit lens I'll be very happy. As I said, the stock lens really surprised me. I just don't think that same lens on my NEX5 was nearly as good. Lots of QC issues I'd bet with these lenses.

Do the Sigma lenses have AF? I'd bet they don't have IS though.
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