Anyone have a Sony NEX7? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 226 Old 05-05-2012, 07:37 PM - Thread Starter
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If so, how do you like its video? I looked at one today and just loved the OLED VF. A sample in-store video I took looked very good, but it was a limited sample.
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post #2 of 226 Old 05-06-2012, 11:53 AM
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Ken, the NEX-7 is a great still cam and gets rave reviews on the photography blogs, but there isn't much love for it in the video community. See this side-by-side with the GH2 - the NEX-7's video image quality looks good, but note the moire on the brickwork: http://vimeo.com/36222761

Also - the NEXs are limited to 29 minutes of continuous video. This is a problem for sermons, school plays, speeches, graduations etc. These events are rare, but when they come up, people don't want gaps caused by camera restarts.

If Sony gave us an NEX or Alpha cam with unlimited clip length and moire close to the Panasonics, they would have a lot more success in video world.

I am not a Sony hater - their NEX-VG20 camcorder solves the clip length problem - and does a good job with moire. But the NEX-7 is a flawed video camera, in my opinion.

Best,

Bill
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post #3 of 226 Old 05-06-2012, 03:20 PM
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Love MY GH2 but why does the sony have 30 min time limit and not the GH2,

In europe GH2s have a 30 min time limit as well.
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post #4 of 226 Old 05-06-2012, 03:58 PM
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Some manufacturers picked codecs/file formats that limited clip duration (Canon, 12 minutes, except for 29 min on 5DMk3) - others, like Sony, use AVCHD and could have used Panasonic-style file spanning to create unlimited clip length, but, for unknown business reasons, didn't (to protect camcorder line? too expensive to write separate firmware for the Americas and Asia? early NEX and Alpha cams were prone to overheating, so why bother?).

Whatever the reason, I won't be buying any of these cameras (including Nikon, 20 minutes on most cameras, 29 on later models) until they get rid of these ridiculous clip limits on North American models.
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post #5 of 226 Old 05-06-2012, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flintyplus View Post

Love MY GH2 but why does the sony have 30 min time limit and not the GH2,

In europe GH2s have a 30 min time limit as well.

i think it has something to do with anything that can record over 29 minutes would be classified a camcorder and subject to more taxes
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post #6 of 226 Old 05-07-2012, 05:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brunerww View Post

Ken, the NEX-7 is a great still cam and gets rave reviews on the photography blogs, but there isn't much love for it in the video community. See this side-by-side with the GH2 - the NEX-7's video image quality looks good, but note the moire on the brickwork: http://vimeo.com/36222761

Also - the NEXs are limited to 29 minutes of continuous video. This is a problem for sermons, school plays, speeches, graduations etc. These events are rare, but when they come up, people don't want gaps caused by camera restarts.

If Sony gave us an NEX or Alpha cam with unlimited clip length and moire close to the Panasonics, they would have a lot more success in video world.

I am not a Sony hater - their NEX-VG20 camcorder solves the clip length problem - and does a good job with moire. But the NEX-7 is a flawed video camera, in my opinion.

Best,

Bill
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Well I picked one up after reading many of the reviews and so far I'm very very impressed.

In my testing thus far, I've seen one case of a bit of moire, but nothing to get too nuts about. What I am seeing though relative to my GH2 (as can also be seen in your comparison link), is considerably more detail and better color. I'm using the highest bitrate 60p setting and it's really nice. If you notice in the comparison link you posted, I still see a bit of moire in the GH2, but more importantly I'm wondering if the NEX7 showed more moire in the brickwork simply because there was far more detail. In some areas the GH2 just looks mushy and therefore not enough detail to create the moire in the first place. I think that may at least partly explain it.

I just went back to look at that side by side again and there are some parts of the picture where there are more artifacts in the GH2 than the NEX7. Take a look at the picket fence (or whatever it is) near the boats. You'll see artifacting on the GH2, but the NEX7 is clean. I guess it depends on what your subject is.

Having full access to all settings in the video mode is new for Sony in the NEX line and much welcome in the NEX7. I had an original NEX5 (not the current model) and really hated the 24p and very bad moire & aliasing. In the NEX7 it seems to be far better controlled.

I can also tell you the OLED VF is out of this world. It's really a new experience in viewfinders.

I'll be testing the NEX7 against my Canon XA10 for fun. The Canon produces some of the best video I've seen in any consumer/prosumer camera, so that should be interesting.

BTW, I think it was DP Review (not 100%) that said they found no time limit in the length of video. They apparently went well beyond 29 minutes with no issues. They may have said they filled up the card, but I can't recall exactly. Either way that's not an issue for me since I don't shoot long events like that.

I'll let you know any further observations as time goes on.
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post #7 of 226 Old 05-07-2012, 06:55 AM
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Thanks for the feedback, Ken. Look forward to hearing your further observations.

Bill
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post #8 of 226 Old 05-07-2012, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Well prior to leaving on a brief business trip, I did compare the NEX7 to my video benchmark, the Canon XA10. I was surprised to find the NEX to have a bit more detail, a bit better color and an overall more 'relaxed' look that's characteristic of larger chips with their better dynamic range. What was more surprising to me was that this was with the kit lens the NEX comes with. That lens is not regarded as the best in the NEX lineup, but it was interesting to see how well it did do relative to my XA10.

Looks like I'll be selling my GH2.
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post #9 of 226 Old 05-07-2012, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brunerww View Post

Ken, the NEX-7 is a great still cam and gets rave reviews on the photography blogs, but there isn't much love for it in the video community. See this side-by-side with the GH2 - the NEX-7's video image quality looks good, but note the moire on the brickwork: http://vimeo.com/36222761

Also - the NEXs are limited to 29 minutes of continuous video. This is a problem for sermons, school plays, speeches, graduations etc. These events are rare, but when they come up, people don't want gaps caused by camera restarts.

If Sony gave us an NEX or Alpha cam with unlimited clip length and moire close to the Panasonics, they would have a lot more success in video world.

I am not a Sony hater - their NEX-VG20 camcorder solves the clip length problem - and does a good job with moire. But the NEX-7 is a flawed video camera, in my opinion.

Best,

Bill
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Bill, the first thing I noticed when looking at your comparison shots, was that in the first sample, the NEX7 had a washed out sky, while in the second sample it was much better. Moire was seemingly more evident with the NEX7.
My question to you is: Which cam produced more accurate colors; compared to real life? The difference in the colors of some of the same buildings between the two cams was significant. Which cam produced the best color, closest to what the colors really are?

Mike
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post #10 of 226 Old 05-07-2012, 01:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Railfan View Post


Bill, the first thing I noticed when looking at your comparison shots, was that in the first sample, the NEX7 had a washed out sky, while in the second sample it was much better. Moire was seemingly more evident with the NEX7.
My question to you is: Which cam produced more accurate colors; compared to real life? The difference in the colors of some of the same buildings between the two cams was significant. Which cam produced the best color, closest to what the colors really are?

Mike

Mike, at least in my limited time with the NEX I'm finding the colors very accurate. As with other cameras in its class, you have a tremendous array of controls to adjust the colors. Even with AWB, you can tell the camera to bias the color in virtually any direction (warmer, cooler, greener, more magenta etc.
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post #11 of 226 Old 05-07-2012, 01:39 PM
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While i'm not buying an NEX-7. I did have a chance to test an NEX-5N and The video quality was really good. The Still pics were terrific. The only problem that I saw was the kit lens only being f3.5.
The NEX-7 seems like it would be better as the screen washes out pretty bad on the NEX-5N so the built in viewfind would reallly help with that.

I would have liked to have spent some time playing more with the video but just had 2 small 30 second videos. Based on those I can't say if it was better than my HF G10 (still for sale) or not.

The NEX-7 is a bit pricey but probably a beter pick over the 5N because you will need a viewfinder on it and adding one to the 5N costs like $350.
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post #12 of 226 Old 05-07-2012, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post

While i'm not buying an NEX-7. I did have a chance to test an NEX-5N and The video quality was really good. The Still pics were terrific. The only problem that I saw was the kit lens only being f3.5.
The NEX-7 seems like it would be better as the screen washes out pretty bad on the NEX-5N so the built in viewfind would reallly help with that.

I would have liked to have spent some time playing more with the video but just had 2 small 30 second videos. Based on those I can't say if it was better than my HF G10 (still for sale) or not.

The NEX-7 is a bit pricey but probably a beter pick over the 5N because you will need a viewfinder on it and adding one to the 5N costs like $350.

Steve, the VF on the NEX is a real game changer. I can't tell you how beautiful the OLED VF is...just stunning.

From what I've seen with the video so far vs my XA10, the NEX7's dynamic range is better due to the very large sensor. It certainly doesn't put the Canon to shame, but I do see an improvement.

What are you replacing the G10 with?
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post #13 of 226 Old 05-07-2012, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brunerww View Post

Ken, the NEX-7 is a great still cam and gets rave reviews on the photography blogs, but there isn't much love for it in the video community. See this side-by-side with the GH2 - the NEX-7's video image quality looks good, but note the moire on the brickwork: http://vimeo.com/36222761

Also - the NEXs are limited to 29 minutes of continuous video. This is a problem for sermons, school plays, speeches, graduations etc. These events are rare, but when they come up, people don't want gaps caused by camera restarts.

If Sony gave us an NEX or Alpha cam with unlimited clip length and moire close to the Panasonics, they would have a lot more success in video world.

I am not a Sony hater - their NEX-VG20 camcorder solves the clip length problem - and does a good job with moire. But the NEX-7 is a flawed video camera, in my opinion.

Best,

Bill
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What a strange comparison,the GH2 in smooth mode and 720P! if more vivid color is wanted vivid picture mode could be used.
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post #14 of 226 Old 05-07-2012, 06:06 PM
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I have a GH2, a NEX-5N and a Panasonic TM900, and have used all of these extensively for video.

1. I agree with Ken that the Sony has more dynamic range than both of the other cameras. I do not see that the GH2 is so obviously sharper, though the TM900 is sharper than both.

2. The Sony does not in auto mode overexpose in bright light, the other cameras do.

3. I use the NEX-5N with the add-on OLED VF, which is similar to that on the NEX-7. It is really great.

Here is a video I took with the NEX-5N on a beach, using the optically stabilized 18-20mm Sony lens (108060p, 1/60th shutter):

https://vimeo.com/35550839
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post #15 of 226 Old 05-07-2012, 06:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Mark, I've got to admit that I'm surprised by the NEX7. You know me, I've had them all including the 900, XA10 and many others. To this point my benchmark cam was the XA10. To my eyes it produced the most professional looking image of my prior cams.

But along comes the NEX and I wasn't prepared for the quality of its video. I expected great stills, but in my brief testing I'd have to rate its footage as best when I factor in the combination of dynamic range, color accuracy and detail. The OLED viewfinder is the icing on the cake.

Now if we can figure out how to incorporate a power zoom....

BTW, very nice video at the beach. Some difficult exposures there.
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post #16 of 226 Old 05-07-2012, 07:44 PM
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Thanks, Ken. The OLED vf was crucial there - no way anyone can use an lcd screen at the beach. The stabilization of the big zoom lens is amazing too - all handheld. I do miss power zoom, and have not tried to mimic it by hand - the new Lumix X lenses for the GH2 now have power zoom capabilities, with a lever. I wonder if Sony will follow suit.

One feature I like about the add-on OLED vf for the 5N is that you can flip it 90 degrees and thus look down while shooting. When you do this nobody thinks you are actually taking pictures, let alone video (not even the gull apparently).

Btw, I just now (after I posted the link) upgraded the Vimeo video to 1080 for streaming; evidently the default is 720, even though I had uploaded a108060p file.
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post #17 of 226 Old 05-07-2012, 11:50 PM
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http://vimeo.com/40701766
video like this is quality.
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post #18 of 226 Old 05-08-2012, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Steve, the VF on the NEX is a real game changer. I can't tell you how beautiful the OLED VF is...just stunning.

From what I've seen with the video so far vs my XA10, the NEX7's dynamic range is better due to the very large sensor. It certainly doesn't put the Canon to shame, but I do see an improvement.

What are you replacing the G10 with?


Hi Ken, I've heard the OLED VF is amazing but I haven't seen one of those yet.

I'm not actually buying anything. My wife lost her job so I'm trying to sell it but so far no interest on CL.
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post #19 of 226 Old 05-08-2012, 07:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Really sorry to hear about that Steve. Best of luck to her in finding a new job...and quickly!
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post #20 of 226 Old 05-08-2012, 08:01 PM
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Really sorry to hear about that Steve. Best of luck to her in finding a new job...and quickly!


Thanks Ken, any idea how much you think my HF G10 should be worth?
I have 2 extra BP-819 batteries for it.

I put it on CL but no interest so far.

Here is the ad

http://nh.craigslist.org/pho/2997657944.html

Any changes that you think I should make?
Thanks
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post #21 of 226 Old 05-09-2012, 03:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Steve, I just checked EBay. They have listings for 2 G10s. One has a starting bid of $1080 and the other $750. I don't know what they'll wind up with, but you can follow the bidding from the link below. But it seems like you're priced OK.

The only change I'd make to your ad is to also talk about how well it performs in good light too. Didn't the XA10 win awards for best camcorder? The HF10 is optically identical. I wonder if you should mention that too. You can also try listing on EBay if you don't have success on Craig's list. I just sold a Pioneer Kuro plasma right here on AVS. The listing cost me $5.

Good luck!

http://www.ebay.com/ctg/Canon-Vixia-...60.c0.m2000019
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post #22 of 226 Old 05-09-2012, 08:22 PM
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Thanks Ken, I'm also selling it with the tripod that has a Fuid head, so it's a pretty good deal for someone who wants a full blown setup right from the start.

I did mention it's the best lowlight camcorder on the market. I guess I should have put for under $2,000.

I'll fix it tonight. Funny thing is I haven't had anyone interested in it at all and it's in perfect condition.
Ah well...
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post #23 of 226 Old 05-10-2012, 03:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post

Thanks Ken, I'm also selling it with the tripod that has a Fuid head, so it's a pretty good deal for someone who wants a full blown setup right from the start.

I did mention it's the best lowlight camcorder on the market. I guess I should have put for under $2,000.

I'll fix it tonight. Funny thing is I haven't had anyone interested in it at all and it's in perfect condition.
Ah well...

Steve, consider EBay. It probably gets a larger audience for electronics.
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post #24 of 226 Old 05-10-2012, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
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Steve, consider EBay. It probably gets a larger audience for electronics.


I just might do that but I would likely not include the tripod because of the shipping costs.

I've never sold on eBay so it'll be a learning experience for me.
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post #25 of 226 Old 05-10-2012, 08:42 AM
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Too bad Sony hasn't released much lenses for the NEX system. Or else I already have bought a NEX camera.
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post #26 of 226 Old 05-10-2012, 01:29 PM
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They have a few decent lenses from what I have seen but the only decent fast prime they have is around $1,100! Yikes!
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post #27 of 226 Old 05-11-2012, 04:33 AM
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Today in one of our local camera shops i had a look at one,mm looks very nice,24000 pixel stills,out of interest i am no expert how can you show the results of 24000 as opossed to say 18000 pixels.
Whats the longest lens these cameras have? do they have fast pacakes? Do they use different cards to most cameras.
Its all a pipedream anyway i could not afford in this buyers market to sell my camera and 7 lenses for a camera that takes different lenses,It looks good though.but can that comparison test have so out .
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post #28 of 226 Old 05-11-2012, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Cebu View Post

I just might do that but I would likely not include the tripod because of the shipping costs.

I've never sold on eBay so it'll be a learning experience for me.

If you have never sold on eBay be prepared that eBay holds your money for a few weeks. Check there sellers rules.

Do you belong to any other forums like dvinfo.net they have a good for sale section.
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post #29 of 226 Old 05-11-2012, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm really impressed with the little NEX. I've compared it against my Canon XA10 and I'm amazed that it renders more detail and clarity than my beloved Canon. Add to that the superb picture taking capability and you really have an all-in-one solution.

The only drawback IMO is the lack of a power zoom. But as Mark said, I just don't try to replicate the zooming in camcorders. I generally edit out zooms anyway, so it's not that big a deal.

But I'll tell you it's such a fun camera to use and I think much of that is the result of the absolutely amazing OLED viewfinder. You feel like you're not as detached from what you're shooting as you do with many cameras. When I go back to the XA10's VF it almost looks like something is wrong. It's small, dark and not very clear in comparison. This is not to take anything away from the Canon, it's still an incredible camcorder.

I've decided to keep the NEX, it's just too good to return.
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post #30 of 226 Old 05-11-2012, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gso125 View Post

If you have never sold on eBay be prepared that eBay holds your money for a few weeks. Check there sellers rules.

Do you belong to any other forums like dvinfo.net they have a good for sale section.


I'm trying eBay Classifieds right now as that is very similar to Craigslist. Unfortunately it isn't as active as CL.
Around here everyone wants to buy what you have for next to nothing.
Hopefully someone will buy it soon.
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