prosumer camcorder advice - Page 3 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #61 of 66 Old 11-11-2012, 06:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Ungermann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 3,802
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by flintyplus View Post

It is strange these heated arguments among us small band of videographers,99% of people i see out are just taking stills.Regarding sharpness ,when i watch videos taken by my HV30 and a long gone FX7 they hold up well,My FZ150 i had or current FZ200 cant live with my GH2 but can still take good video as long as clips are not mixed.Well they could software can do anything.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OK7uoV5OtfU
Obviously sharness difference in resolution show up far more on a good HD tv than youtube on a pc.
Funny, when I bought the HV30 four or so years ago I was disappointed with soft image, it did not look like HD to me, not like HD I would see from a football game broadcast or some fancy TV series. So I had to get used to lower-res "HD" from consumer camcorders. Compared to that, 1080p60 from modern cameras is indeed a crystal clear window into the world, looks more like real HD. Although 720p60 is not much worse in my opinion and is not as stressed with higher bitrate per pixel ratio.
Ungermann is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 66 Old 11-11-2012, 11:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
flintyplus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: yeovil somerset
Posts: 1,241
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Perhaps yours had had the pox,:)i still have mine and if i render my pana SD 900 cams or even GH2 footage to HDV it holds up fairly well to the origional clips,there is bound to be some loss i know.
At one time i ownded a canon 550D the HVs video was sharper than that.Sony HC1 that was c---
flintyplus is offline  
post #63 of 66 Old 11-12-2012, 12:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
markr041's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,141
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 122 Post(s)
Liked: 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by flintyplus View Post

Perhaps yours had had the pox,:)i still have mine and if i render my pana SD 900 cams or even GH2 footage to HDV it holds up fairly well to the origional clips,there is bound to be some loss i know.
At one time i ownded a canon 550D the HVs video was sharper than that.Sony HC1 that was c---

There are two explanations why you believe the HV30 video, or even the GH2, is as sharp as the the SD 900: 1. you are not shooting at 108060p with the SD 900 or 2. well, you are not viewing properly.

The tested resolution of the SD 900 at 108060p is 1000x900. That for the HV30 is 625x575. It's not in the same league. You can be in denial all you want, but it is not helpful to those viewers here to be misinformed about the softness of old camcorders (and most DSLRs). And sharpness is why we shoot at 108060p. The sd 900 resolution at 108060i (why shoot interlaced?) is 800x650, still better than the HV30, but well below what you get at 108060p. These figures are from camcorderinfo. They are affimed at slashcam.de as well. The GH2 is close, but still below the SD 900 in resolution. The HV30 is sharper than the HC1, but not by much: the HC1 is 656x481.

I own the TM900 and the GH2, so I am not just reading reviews. I can see the difference (the GH2 is really very good, though, at 72060p and the new 108030p).
markr041 is offline  
post #64 of 66 Old 11-12-2012, 08:55 AM
AVS Special Member
 
flintyplus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: yeovil somerset
Posts: 1,241
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

There are two explanations why you believe the HV30 video, or even the GH2, is as sharp as the the SD 900: 1. you are not shooting at 108060p with the SD 900 or 2. well, you are not viewing properly.
The tested resolution of the SD 900 at 108060p is 1000x900. That for the HV30 is 625x575. It's not in the same league. You can be in denial all you want, but it is not helpful to those viewers here to be misinformed about the softness of old camcorders (and most DSLRs). And sharpness is why we shoot at 108060p. The sd 900 resolution at 108060i (why shoot interlaced?) is 800x650, still better than the HV30, but well below what you get at 108060p. These figures are from camcorderinfo. They are affimed at slashcam.de as well. The GH2 is close, but still below the SD 900 in resolution. The HV30 is sharper than the HC1, but not by much: the HC1 is 656x481.
I own the TM900 and the GH2, so I am not just reading reviews. I can see the difference (the GH2 is really very good, though, at 72060p and the new 108030p).

Did you not read what i said i own a Pana cam with 60P and a pana camera with 60P my GH2 is sharper than both,look at my test against the camera,i admit my 60P cam beats the FZ for resolution.When i said my HV30 had more resolution than a Canon 550D/T2i it had.You say your cam as the sharper its reverse for me,it could be a pal ntsc thing,it is a bit annoying saying i am not viewing properly,when i get a chance i will do a test with the camcorder & render to HDV and do a comparison with the 60p & hdv, i rarely use 60P as i have said its no use to me personaly,
A lot has changed since i started filming in the early 70s and 1980 with video but at least its still fun.by the way it was the awful colour i hated with the HC1,
All the best Good filming
flintyplus is offline  
post #65 of 66 Old 11-12-2012, 10:24 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Ungermann's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego, California
Posts: 3,802
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by flintyplus View Post

when i get a chance i will do a test with the camcorder & render to HDV and do a comparison with the 60p & hdv
Um, HDV does not support 1080p60. JVC's HDV supports 720p60, but I don't think that the HV30 can record/play this format. Even if HDV supported 1080p60, at 25 Mbit/s it would look markedly worse than AVC 1080p60 at 28 Mbit/s.

I personally agree that 1080p60 is very sharp and detailed. But I've seen very ugly macroblocking from the SD600 when the image was gettingTOO detailed. I hope that Panasonic and Sony did their best to prevent these ugly defects in current models. But at twice higher resolution per frame than 720p60 and only 4 Mbit/s more this format is inherently more strained. AVC Long-G should offer more breathing space and more bits per pixel.
Ungermann is online now  
post #66 of 66 Old 11-12-2012, 02:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
flintyplus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: yeovil somerset
Posts: 1,241
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

Um, HDV does not support 1080p60. JVC's HDV supports 720p60, but I don't think that the HV30 can record/play this format. Even if HDV supported 1080p60, at 25 Mbit/s it would look markedly worse than AVC 1080p60 at 28 Mbit/s.
I personally agree that 1080p60 is very sharp and detailed. But I've seen very ugly macroblocking from the SD600 when the image was gettingTOO detailed. I hope that Panasonic and Sony did their best to prevent these ugly defects in current models. But at twice higher resolution per frame than 720p60 and only 4 Mbit/s more this format is inherently more strained. AVC Long-G should offer more breathing space and more bits per pixel.

Its not what i meant ! HDV and 1080P can be rendered together with certain software on a timeline without affecting either resolution.Its true the HV30 cant match the latest chip cams/cameras but it could take great video.
My FZ200 does not macroblock in 60P but it has no more resolution than 50i probobly the result of the small chip,i dont plan to change my GH2 for the 60P added GH3,its all a question of what suits you best.
flintyplus is offline  
Reply Camcorders

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off