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post #1 of 30 Old 12-15-2012, 03:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I am one of those people that will hunt a deal down. My friends and family call me to enlist my hunting skills all the time. I pride myself on getting the beast item in whatever price range I'm looking at. It is a time sink from hell, you must know the product in detail to have any hope of getting a real deal. Nine days I spent hunting down a deal on a camera. I only had $200 to spend so I knew it wouldn't be a "real" camcorder. Now, my wife has a three year old galaxy-S phone that does 720p with a useless digital zoom but, its vids are surprisingly clear. Bearing this three year old cell phone's cam in mind I figured I could get a pretty good no frills camera for $200. I found the HC-V500k for $199. I read everything I could find and just knew it had to be at least as good as the Galaxy-S. I got it three days ago. Set it to 1080 60p and started filming. Its IQ blows! The galaxy-S is so much clearer it's not even a competition. I tried every thing you can imagine. In the Daytime shadows have what looks like a film grain effect and nighttime looks awful. Newegg only made me pay $5 to restock. They told me this is happening a lot with this cam. It wasn't broke it's just the way it is. Now that I have put up a wall of text only the most wonderful of people would read through I'll get to my point. Please help me find a camera. I'm tired of reading and surfing and now my budget is $175 due to shipping and the restocking fee. I don't care about waterproofing, playback options, zooming or preset anything. Pocket cams, sports cams I don't care I just want the best IQ I can get for that price and a way to see what I'm recording. At least I learned something through all this though, 720p can look a ton better then 1080p. A Lot more matters then the resolution numbers.
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post #2 of 30 Old 12-15-2012, 04:23 PM
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rpgdude - sorry to hear that the V500 didn't work out for you.

If you like this video (please watch at 720p): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGjpkQGxDcc

You might want to look at the $70 Canon PowerShot A1300.

Hope that's helpful and best of the holidays!

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution
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post #3 of 30 Old 12-15-2012, 05:34 PM
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You sort of get what you pay for with the V500. The effective video resolution of the chip is less than HD so you are going to get images that are a bit soft and since the chip is on the small side, it'll do terrible indoors. Unfortunately Panasonic is able to get away with calling it a 1080p camcorder since a lot of DSLR cameras also has much less real resolution than 1080p but it's called 1080p as well. The resolution of the chip goes from 1.30 - 1.12 MP according to Panasonic specs and the bare minimum effective video resolution a chip should have is about 2.1MP. I mean theirs a good reason why other camcorders cost a bit more then the V500 and why I'll sometimes try to get people on this forum to stay away from that camera unless they can't really afford anything better.

One camcorder that is at $300 right now is the Canon M500 and maybe soon we'll find the Panasonic V700 for $300. Maybe you'll be lucky and find an even better deal on a refurbish model. If possible, I would try to see if theirs anyway you'd be able to get eighter of them. This way, you will not be as disappointed as you were with the V500.

Have you ever thought about selling anything you have that you don't need anymore? Theirs places like Graig's List, ebay and pawn shops that you can use. That's one way to add a few extra bucks to your budget.
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post #4 of 30 Old 12-15-2012, 07:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you both for your fast replies. So its 1080p but not really 1080p. Ive read that 99% of camera's that claim 1080p are fos but dam I didn't expect a 1080p cam to look worse then a good 480p vid on YouTube. I,m not lying. I do notice you both recommended a Canon. So I'm gonna look for one around my price. surly it will look better then a three year old Gallaxy-S.
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post #5 of 30 Old 12-15-2012, 07:19 PM
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If you don't mind buying used, you might think about getting a Sony HX9V for $175. This is an amazing video-capable camera for the price:

Please don't be tempted to buy the HX10V - it shoots 1080/60i instead of 1080/60p, and is nowhere near the video camera the HX9V is.

Many others on this board bought this camera last year, so I will leave it to them to vouch for it - but the video I've seen from it has been impressive.

Best,

Bill
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post #6 of 30 Old 12-15-2012, 07:38 PM
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Yes it's true that every camera has less real resolution then being advertised but at the same time, it's also true that the camcorders above it are in an entirely different league because of how crappy the specs of the V500 is. Both Panasonic and Canon has crappy and good cameras so I wouldn't buy just any camera you see in your price range as long as it says Canon or Panasonic on it.
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post #7 of 30 Old 12-15-2012, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpgdude View Post

I didn't expect a 1080p cam to look worse then a good 480p vid on YouTube.
It's easy to get hung up focusing on camera specs (e.g. 1080i vs 1080p) and price instead of actual camera image output. If I were you I'd
focus on image (and audio) output by spending time reviewing actual sample footage by a camera review site like this one:
https://vimeo.com/user803551/videos/sort:date

Further complicating matters is the issue of image quality straight out of the camera vs. quality after adjusting quality parameters in
a video editing program. Some cameras shoot 1080p footage that looks low quality straight out of the camera yet it may look real good after
adjusting brightness, white balance, sharpness and so forth. And some cameras shoot 1080i footage that looks bright, sharp and
with accurate, yet vivid colors straight out of the camera.
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post #8 of 30 Old 12-15-2012, 08:24 PM
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You could consider the Panasonic Lumix DMC-FX78 for $156.30:
http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-DMC-FX78-Digital-Stabilized-3-5-Inch/dp/B004KKZ0GA/ref=sr_1_65?s=photo&ie=UTF8&qid=1355630894&sr=1-65

It features a 3.5" Touch Screen, Optical Image Stabilizer and can shoot 1920x1080 FULL HD, (60i, but sensor output is 30p). And it has a CCD sensor, which is good so you won't get jello/wobbly video image as with CMOS sensors. It also takes 12 megapixel photos.

You'll have enough left over to pick up some cheap, extra batteries on ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=DMC-FX78&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313&_nkw=DMC-FX78+battery&_sacat=0

Don't expect greatness for under $200, but this camera has some decent features for the price.


Here is a test of the DMC-FX77, (which is the same camera as the FX78, but called FX77 in another market):
http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/i7zhpdWgxd8

Choose HD on YouTube player.
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post #9 of 30 Old 12-15-2012, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

...Both Panasonic and Canon has crappy and good cameras so I wouldn't buy just any camera you see in your price range as long as it says Canon or Panasonic on it....

+1 - Exactly.
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post #10 of 30 Old 12-15-2012, 09:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xfws View Post

You could consider the Panasonic Lumix DMC-FX78 for $156.30:
http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-DMC-FX78-Digital-Stabilized-3-5-Inch/dp/B004KKZ0GA/ref=sr_1_65?s=photo&ie=UTF8&qid=1355630894&sr=1-65
It features a 3.5" Touch Screen, Optical Image Stabilizer and can shoot 1920x1080 FULL HD, (60i, but sensor output is 30p). And it has a CCD sensor, which is good so you won't get jello/wobbly video image as with CMOS sensors. It also takes 12 megapixel photos.
.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brunerww View Post

If you don't mind buying used, you might think about getting a Sony HX9V for $175. This is an amazing video-capable camera for the price:

They both look really good. What's the 30p output accomplish and which one is better suited for inside lighting? Better yet is there a spec that gives you an idea how a camera will perform on inside scenes?
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post #11 of 30 Old 12-15-2012, 09:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD90 View Post

It's easy to get hung up focusing on camera specs (e.g. 1080i vs 1080p) and price instead of actual camera image output. If I were you I'd
focus on image (and audio) output by spending time reviewing actual sample footage by a camera review site like this one:
https://vimeo.com/user803551/videos/sort:date
Further complicating matters is the issue of image quality straight out of the camera vs. quality after adjusting quality parameters in
a video editing program. Some cameras shoot 1080p footage that looks low quality straight out of the camera yet it may look real good after
adjusting brightness, white balance, sharpness and so forth. And some cameras shoot 1080i footage that looks bright, sharp and
with accurate, yet vivid colors straight out of the camera.
Thank you for that link. That will help me a lot.
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post #12 of 30 Old 12-16-2012, 05:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpgdude View Post

They both look really good. What's the 30p output accomplish and which one is better suited for inside lighting? Better yet is there a spec that gives you an idea how a camera will perform on inside scenes?

The 30p output will display progressive, ("p"), images, which won't have the potential visual artifacts in interlaced video. ("i"):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_scan#Advantages_of_progressive_scan


I can't say if either of those cameras are good in low light...but the Sony HX9V is a more advanced camera. If you can get the refurbished version in Bill's Amazon link would be better than getting used.
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post #13 of 30 Old 12-16-2012, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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I cant bust $200 on a DSC-HX9V that might breakdown the day after I get it so used is out. The refurbished runs about $60 more then I can spend so its off the table though it would be perfect. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-om3vDjNLc . I might just hold off and save. frown.gif
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post #14 of 30 Old 12-16-2012, 09:33 AM
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You can get right now the Sony Hx20v for $259 at BHphotovideo - it's brand new (not used or refurbished) and an improved version of the discontinued Hx9v (better in video).

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist.jsp&sku=846284&Q=add&is=REG&q=1&A=cart
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post #15 of 30 Old 12-16-2012, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

You can get right now the Sony Hx20v for $259 at BHphotovideo - it's brand new (not used or refurbished) and an improved version of the discontinued Hx9v (better in video).
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist.jsp&sku=846284&Q=add&is=REG&q=1&A=cart

That is a very good buy. It also has some entertaining "effects" built in for both photo and video.
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post #16 of 30 Old 12-16-2012, 10:47 AM - Thread Starter
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TY but $200 is as high as I can go atm and that's putting me over budget by $15 due to shipping and restocking fee on the garbage HC-V500
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post #17 of 30 Old 12-16-2012, 02:37 PM
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rpgdude - Amazon Warehouse Deals has a 30 day return policy & no restocking fee. You can get the HX20V there for $200.37.

Hope this works for you,

Bill
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post #18 of 30 Old 12-16-2012, 02:45 PM
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Isn't the $200 price for *used* cameras? Then it's not a deal at all - $259 for a new one, with full Sony warranty, is a deal.
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post #19 of 30 Old 12-16-2012, 03:35 PM
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You're right - unless the buyer's budget is limited to $200 smile.gif
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post #20 of 30 Old 12-16-2012, 03:48 PM
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It's a fine option, but there was already an expression of uninterest in used.
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post #21 of 30 Old 12-16-2012, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Canon PowerShot SX260. Any one suggest better video quality at this price point. I don't care what kind of cam/camcorder/point and shoot ect.. Refurbished or new TY.
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post #22 of 30 Old 12-16-2012, 04:11 PM
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Users of the Hx9V who have posted here (including myself) have been very pleased with the video. I have seen no comparable credible praise for Canon P&S video. Also, shooting at 24fps (not even 30fps at 1080 is available from the Canon) is very limiting - you really cannot do pans and shoot action.

The review of the video of the Canon camera at digitalcamerainfo.com indicates the Canon has very low resolution, and non-smooth video. Look at this comparison page on video sharpness (the Hx30v reviewed is the same as the Hx20v without wi-fi):

http://www.digitalcamerainfo.com/content/Sony-Cyber-shot-HX30V-Digital-Camera-Review/Video.htm

Relative to its normal-light performance, the Hx20v is not stellar in low light.
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post #23 of 30 Old 12-16-2012, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpgdude View Post

Ok, so I've narrowed it down to two unless someone can suggest better video at this price point. Canon PowerShot SX260 HS or the DSC-HX20V. The hx20v has 1080 50p video but will it be nosier in low light then the sx260. Its hard to tell on YouTube type sites. Any one that can shed some light on this?

The SX260 only shoots 1280x720 - the previous year's model the SX230 HS can shoot 1920x1080.

Although I like Canon cameras, the HX20 is a higher class camera - not only does it shoot 60p, but it has superior image stabilization and better build, among other things. Get that one, if you can.

If you want to wait and see if they run it again, Canon had the refurbished SX230's on sale last week for $99:
http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10051_10051_306881_-1
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post #24 of 30 Old 12-16-2012, 04:51 PM - Thread Starter
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So I definitely don't know **** about cameras. I should just give one of you my $200 and let you pick it out. I'm about fed up with all the misleading BS info from "Every" camera company out there. Is it so hard to be simple and honest with your customers? Maybe tell me the real res and low light capability not just spin and hype! Geez this is frustrating. I buy and sell PC parts all the time and while there is definitely spin and hype they don't out right lie. Full HD my ( I ).
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post #25 of 30 Old 12-16-2012, 05:15 PM
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Hold on, don't believe anything you read in a forum post without checking:

This statement made above "The SX260 only shoots 1280x720 - the previous year's model the SX230 HS can shoot 1920x1080."may not be correct.

According to Canon, the 260 does shoot 108024p. Here are the specs:

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/digital_cameras/powershot_sx260_hs#Specifications

Now maybe Canon is lying, but do not believe anything from posters who make claims about cameras they do not own unless it is backed up with some evidence. Maybe "xfws" has some special knowledge; in which case he can tell us what it is that makes the offical Canon specs incorrect. I agree with him in any case that the Hx20V is the better video camera.
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post #26 of 30 Old 12-16-2012, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rpgdude View Post

So I definitely don't know **** about cameras. I should just give one of you my $200 and let you pick it out. I'm about fed up with all the misleading BS info from "Every" camera company out there. Is it so hard to be simple and honest with your customers? Maybe tell me the real res and low light capability not just spin and hype! Geez this is frustrating. I buy and sell PC parts all the time and while there is definitely spin and hype they don't out right lie. Full HD my ( I ).

sorry dude, Mark is correct: sx260 is 1920x1080... I read the specs for miniature mode by mistake.
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post #27 of 30 Old 12-16-2012, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Na don't worry about it I actually knew you where wrong believe it or not . I had watched about 20 vids 1080 24p on different video sights also read and watched many reviews.
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post #28 of 30 Old 12-16-2012, 07:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

Hold on, don't believe anything you read in a forum post without checking:
This statement made above "The SX260 only shoots 1280x720 - the previous year's model the SX230 HS can shoot 1920x1080."may not be correct.
According to Canon, the 260 does shoot 108024p. Here are the specs:
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/digital_cameras/powershot_sx260_hs#Specifications
Now maybe Canon is lying, but do not believe anything from posters who make claims about cameras they do not own unless it is backed up with some evidence. Maybe "xfws" has some special knowledge; in which case he can tell us what it is that makes the offical Canon specs incorrect. I agree with him in any case that the Hx20V is the better video camera.

Never dude that's why I'm so frustrated. Ive been at this for 3 weeks. Its absurd the amount of BS you have to go through to find the truth. From what Ive read 99% are not true 1080p but they all use the "FULL HD" spin/lie so its hard as hell to know what is and whats not. The statement stands though. They "ALL" mislead.. They muddy the water to deceive you into buying junk/HC-V500k.rolleyes.gif What a peace of crap. I'm still mad about that. I should have just came here first.
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post #29 of 30 Old 12-17-2012, 05:36 AM - Thread Starter
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It's finely over with. I found the cam and I bought it. Now I'm not saying this as a fact but I looked at a lot of camcorders and at $200 every camcorder Video file I downloaded looked awful in low light. The pocket hd cams with the best IQ had no zoom or very little zoom and again all looked bad "to me" in low light at a $200 price. This cams video look better in low light then anything in the $200 range that I could find and I downloaded a mountain of videos. The Nikon - Coolpix S9300 $199 here http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Nikon+-+Coolpix+S9300+16.0-Megapixel+Digital+Camera+-+Black/4860498.p?id=1218555765891&skuId=4860498&st=s9300&cp=1&lp=1 and I get to pick it up today... after I get some sleep.
Thank you all for your help.
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post #30 of 30 Old 12-22-2012, 06:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Man was I wrong on the Nikon s9300 . The auto focus struggles constantly and in any ISO other then 125 it gets noisy fast. Took it back and I am on the hunt again though its looking like Ill just give up for awhile. Cant find a single $200 1080p camera that looks any better the Samsung galaxy s 4g smart phone. Sad rolleyes.gif
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