Video Comparison: The Panasonic TM900 and LX7 - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 53 Old 01-23-2013, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

I agree with you except for when you say "In the camera is everything or nothing." Some cameras, as you know, have many adjustments of many parameters.

High-level editing software likely has more possibilities than hardware can provide.

Pros argue over whether one should get it right in the camera, or do it all in editing.

Just one more observation on that.

Imagine this situations:

1 - STILL CAMERA - CONSUMER/PROSUMER LEVEL - USED BY A CONSUMER/ENTHUSIAST

You are recording some beautiful flowers in telemacro. You use some pre-sets to enhance the greens and the reds. Then you see another lovely scene of an old couple in a place full of grey/blue rocks. Will you have the time to choose another pre-set for that scene? Will you lose the right moment? Will you always use the same adjustments, with the risk of making videos with the wrong looks? If your camera raises the constrast, gama, gain etc too much, no editing program will be able to go back and recover some details. You will lose them, forever. Especially because we are talking consumer level range. And what if you use the pre-set in the flowers and later you notice that you have too much red and too much contrast? Some colors are blowed up and you want less shadows. Can you correct that in post? Sometimes you cant, because non neutral looks lose detail. If I had a still camera for video, I would never use those effects and pre-sets, because I rather edit them the way I want later. If you dont plan to edit your videos, then yes, a still camera will make better looking videos in most of the times, thinking consumer level here.

Considerations: If you have a good camera (like you do), you can make your footage neutral and use that for post. Thats good. But you have to consider whats better for you. You can get that neutral look in camcorders, with all of their facilities. They are just easier to use. In that case you have to think whats better for you: sharpness? detail? resolution? recording time? temperature issues? low light performance? DOF? After that you can say if a camcorder or a still camera is better for you.

2 - CAMCORDER - CONSUMER/PROSUMER LEVEL - USED BY A CONSUMER/ENTHUSIAST

You record everything with that neutral/dull look of the camcorder, without having to worry about adjustments, time recording limits, temperature issues, losing focus, stabilization etc. When you get home you have a video with a boring look, but with A LOT of detail, sharpness and possibilities to work with. In you chair you have the time to think if that scene will look better with more color, with less contrast etc. You dont have the time to do that in real time, unless you are recording a movie. We are talking about consumer use here. One second and you lose the perfect shot.

So you sit on your chair, put some good music on and start editing your videos. In 5 minutes you cut out the things you dont want. Then in 3 minutes you split the videos to edit each scene the way you want. In one scene you can spend from 20 seconds to 3 minutes editing. People think that for camcorders the way to go is to raise the saturation and contrast. Thats wrong. If you throw the saturaion down a little bit, and then lower the gamma, gain and offset you will have more vivid colors without blowing colors up and without losing details. But each scene has its particularities, and thats the fun about editing. Its a relaxing exercise. So if you want to play with color corrector, color curves etc, you will spend no more than 20 seconds in each scene. If you want to make more advanced adjustments, like using masks to edit only parts of the scene, like lowering the brightness of a window, increasing the sharpness of an especific area of the video, adding blur in another area etc, then you will spend like 3 minutes on that scene.

At the end of 20 minutes you have a nice looking 7 minutes video, with every single scene with the exact look that you want. Now you are ready to show your video to your family.

Im not saying that a still camera is useless for video. But for ME, a camcorder makes more sense. I can imagine that for some users a still camera will be better.
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post #32 of 53 Old 01-26-2013, 09:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Back to the LX7: indoor video at two Palm Beach landmarks


Select 1080p.

Shot using 108060p. The indoor shots took advantage of the f1.4 wide-angle (24mm) lens.

This is part of a longer Palm Beach video, in process.This set contains the only indoors parts.
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post #33 of 53 Old 01-27-2013, 05:40 AM
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Amazing shots, as always! Where did you learn how to shoot? Do you recommend something (lecture or videos) for those who want to learn how to frame correctly?

The only thing I miss in my GW77 is that kind of depth you got on the first shot!
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post #34 of 53 Old 01-28-2013, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Panasonic LX7 and FZ200 Low-Light Video Comparison

Having a fast lens really matters and the LX7 f1.4 lens, and larger sensor compared with all consumer camcorders, gives good low-light performance.

Had shot a video using the FZ200 outdoors and the LX7 indoors. Viewers asked how the FZ200 would have done indoors compared to the LX7, which is why we are not comparing at the same f-stop across cameras or different f-stops for the same camera.

Video clips shot under the exact same dim lighting conditions, both camera's lens at widest aperture (f1.4 for the LX7, f2.8 for the FZ200). ISO 400 for the LX7 needed ISO 1600 for the FZ200. Auto WB, NR -2, shutter set at 1/60th, Standard color for both. Handheld; focus lock used.


You will not need to ask which clip came from which camera.

https://vimeo.com/58395808

Shot at 108060p. You can download the video to inspect the quality (difference) in full glory.

Now, the f2.8 aperture at 600mm for the FZ200 is what makes that camera of interest. There are not too many lenses with that capability, none at reasonable cost.
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post #35 of 53 Old 01-29-2013, 01:19 AM
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Nice comparison, Mark. Looks like the LX7 delivered brighter and sharper low light indoor footage. What happens outdoors on a sunny day when shooting a landscape with the FZ200 within the same range of focal lengths that the LX7 is capable of? Is the footage of the FZ200 sharper or about the same as the LX7? Is the audio quality on the FZ200 clearer and more refined sounding or about the same? Is the image stabilization of the two cameras about the same at similar focal lengths? Overall, do you like the FZ200 more than the LX7 or does it seem like a substantially more bulky, cumbersome camera that has no major advantage except for the user who needs its much greater zoom range? Thanks for your insights.
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post #36 of 53 Old 01-29-2013, 07:18 AM - Thread Starter
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The FZ200 25-600mm f2.8 lens is a real gem And one can handhold it and get non-shaky video even at that extension.

Here is a video that uses the FZ200 outdoors, with many shots using the full extension, and with indoor shots using the LX7 - a great combination.

https://vimeo.com/58316168


Boats, ships, the intercoastal, bicyclists, walkers, fountains, flowers, hedging and trimming, inside two Palm Beach landmarks, ducks, cranes, gulls, the beach and wind.

All 108060p, with shutter at 1/125th and ND 8 filter outdoors.
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post #37 of 53 Old 01-29-2013, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

The FZ200 25-600mm f2.8 lens is a real gem ... with many shots using the full extension...
You should try the Panasonic tele extender. You still get F4.0 and the equivalent of about 1000mm. When you order it, be careful. The lens fits a number of Panasonic cameras, but you need the right Panasonic adapter to fit your camera. Page 194 of the manual has the part numbers. http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPERMANPDF/DMCFZ200_ADV.PDF

My wife's FZ150 can take some pretty good bird photos with the tele extender attached.
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post #38 of 53 Old 01-29-2013, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bsprague View Post

You should try the Panasonic tele extender. You still get F4.0 and the equivalent of about 1000mm. When you order it, be careful. The lens fits a number of Panasonic cameras, but you need the right Panasonic adapter to fit your camera. Page 194 of the manual has the part numbers. http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPERMANPDF/DMCFZ200_ADV.PDF

My wife's FZ150 can take some pretty good bird photos with the tele extender attached.

Thanks. Turns out the adaptor you need for the FZ200 to use the tele-extender is not currently available (maybe temporarily) anywhere in the US.
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post #39 of 53 Old 01-29-2013, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

Thanks. Turns out the adaptor you need for the FZ200 to use the tele-extender is not currently available (maybe temporarily) anywhere in the US.
B&H says it is a "new item". You can pre order it or click the "notify me" button.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=898275&is=REG&Q=&A=details

A duplicate model is here: http://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Panasonic-DMC-FZ200-Alternative-DMW-LA7/dp/B00AI5IX1A/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1359476046&sr=8-2&keywords=dmw-la7

At Adorama I was able to add one to my cart, but I didn't try to check out. http://www.adorama.com/IPCDMWLA7.html?gclid=CL6_yPj6jbUCFUlxQgodxkMASQ

If you own an FZ150 or 200 you really have to have one of these!

There is a guy named Graham Houghton with with a YouTube channel that has over 2 million views. Apparently his YouTube career is reviews and lessons for Panasonic cameras. You can see what the 150 and extender lens looks like in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GLTv3eJ--k

You might enjoy Graham's channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/ghough12/featured He's done a lot of videos on the HX9V too.
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post #40 of 53 Old 01-30-2013, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Houghton's videos are fun, though not always completely accurate.

Adorama did not have the adaptor in stock either. It is also not available from my ususal official Panasonic discount supplier (who has every Panasonic accessory at discount prices below everyone else (VideoDirect)). There is the knock-off one...

Thanks for the tips, and encouragement. To shoot birds, my experience is one needs to hide, so a remote to start and stop the camera and a remote viewing device are useful. Both are possible with the FZ200.
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post #41 of 53 Old 01-30-2013, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

........, so a remote to start and stop the camera and a remote viewing device are useful. Both are possible with the FZ200.
iPhone?

And, with a 1000mm equivalent lens, you may not need to hide that much.
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post #42 of 53 Old 01-30-2013, 09:16 AM
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Houghton's videos are fun, though not always completely accurate....
Did you see his view count for his channel? He might be making significant money from the ads!
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post #43 of 53 Old 01-30-2013, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Did you see his view count for his channel? He might be making significant money from the ads!

He certainly gets more views than our videos do! But, he is putting in a lot of work so he deserves some compensation - I wonder if he is paid by Panasonic (not that it matters, he is not making any claims about the cameras).

My experience with birds is they are very skittish about people. Btw, the new cameras with wifi make hiding easy - you can remotely view using your smartphone or tablet and control the camera wirelessly.
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post #44 of 53 Old 01-30-2013, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
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There are 600mm shots of birds at the end of this FZ200 video:

https://vimeo.com/57810763

That's as close as I can get, for birds that know me (they are regulars around our house).

Frame grab:

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post #45 of 53 Old 01-30-2013, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

Btw, the new cameras with wifi make hiding easy - you can remotely view using your smartphone or tablet and control the camera wirelessly.

+1 Mark. I would like to get one of the new cams for the wi-fi feature alone. It's a great addition to have for shooting wildlife video without upsetting the natural behavior of the subject your are filming. You can control with your smartphone or tablet..awesome.

Go Phillies! Go Eagles! Go Sixers! Go Flyers!
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post #46 of 53 Old 02-04-2013, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Panasonic LX7 Video: a Natural History Museum Visit


A very dim place, with dinosaurs, glowing rocks, mummies, dioramas, visitors, and live specimens! Some playing around with reflections and a polarizing filter. The f1.4, 24mm lens really comes in handy for interiors.

Those darn lizards, who move around interestingly, would stop and pose (as you will see) whenever I pointed the camera at them. I could not communicate I was taking video. The ants did not care, and kept working.

https://vimeo.com/58860666

108060p original (downloadable).

1/60th shutter, STD color, NR -2.
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post #47 of 53 Old 02-08-2013, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Panasonic LX7 Video: Union Station, Washington, DC

Another very dim train station, but with lots of activity, and food.


https://vimeo.com/59268337


108060p original (downloadable).

1/60th shutter, STD color, NR -2.
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post #48 of 53 Old 02-10-2013, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
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The LX7 price is now $348 (don't know how long):

http://www.adorama.com/IPCDMCLX7BG.html?gclid=CKmKo7WNrLUCFYdT4AodZmoAqA

is one example, but other places on line too.
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post #49 of 53 Old 02-10-2013, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

The LX7 price is now $348 (don't know how long):

http://www.adorama.com/IPCDMCLX7BG.html?gclid=CKmKo7WNrLUCFYdT4AodZmoAqA

is one example, but other places on line too.

That's a great deal - you also get an SD card and $50 gift certificate...so it's really like $300.

That cam's like a mini-GH2 with a fixed lens.
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post #50 of 53 Old 02-15-2013, 04:25 PM - Thread Starter
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LX7 Time-lapse Video Compilation: in stations, terminals and in the air (at 5500 mph)



Select 1080p.

This is an in-camera "creative" effect; no post- editing or processing. The music track asadded by Youtube (with my agreemnt) as for this effect there is ni in-camera audio. Shot at full 108060p. The effective speed-up is 10X, which means you are seeing in the last clip what it is like, looking out the window, to fly at - 5500 mph!
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post #51 of 53 Old 02-17-2013, 05:34 AM
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Mark, any issues with moire or aliasing with either the LX7 or FZ200?
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post #52 of 53 Old 02-17-2013, 07:46 AM - Thread Starter
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I think there is some artifacting, but less than the RX100. These problems seem to be directly proportional to the sensor size (maybe the GH2 is an exception).

The museum video, where there are repeated textures, does not seem to show much artifacting:

https://vimeo.com/56672263

but I have seen it in test charts.

The LX7 is now selling for $299 again. As you have said, the better color (whether it is more accurate is another thing) seems to make a bigger difference in terms of video enjoyment, though when I go back to the GW77 videos I am impressed again by the great sharpness.
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post #53 of 53 Old 02-17-2013, 04:27 PM
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Mark, it seems that the upcoming X920 may have greater saturation than the 700/900 had, so perhaps a combination of great sharpness and saturated color...in a camcorder body to boot?

Probably not as saturated as the larger sensor digital cameras, but I am curious.

I just pulled out the 77 yesterday, and it is, as you say, very sharp. I just have problems with the colors.
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