RX100: Real video of people and places... - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 27 Old 01-21-2013, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
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In another thread, Markr041 wrote: "I would really like to see some RX100 video too, not of test charts or pets sleeping on sofas, but real videos of places and people."

Watch: Quartzsite 2013 on Vimeo.

As a "student" of the AVS Camcorder Forum, I have been trying to equip myself with the tools, techniques and equipment to "make video" for two years.

In a way, you can look at this as my "graduation" piece. No it is not great video. I still have to learn that! But, it does "demo" what I've learned.

I'm retired, live in both a condo and a motorhome and travel. That adjusts my requirements a little. I don't get big studios, large computers, big cameras or lots of lenses. If it can't fit in carry on luggage, it is not part of my kit.

For this video:
  • The camera is a Sony RX100. It is small and better known for photos due to a larger than usual sensor.
  • The computer is an i7 laptop with a graphics card, Blu-Ray burner, and SSD for additional speed
  • The software is Adobe Premier Elements 11 because it smoothly handles 1080p and provided all the "creative" options imaginable.

I was attending a motorhome club "rally" last week in Quartzsite, AZ. About a 170 people gathered in the middle of the desert to share friendship, common interests, food and, of course, drink. It is an annual event. There are no support facilities, we take turns doing the work. We prepare and eat two meals together each day for four days.

In this video:
  • A few random clips and a RAW photo file. I was not trying to do a "documentary".
  • The specific clips selected were chosen because they had too much motion, difficult light or bad audio. This video is a collection of the worst, not best clips. It should be obvious that, with care, the RX100 might do pretty well.
  • I've learned my software well enough that I put it together, with titles and transitions, in under an hour.
  • My computer and software rendered the 1:07 video to a 67 MB fle in about one and a half minutes, demonstrating the effectiveness of the laptop and software.
  • It is not "lossless". I used the software to prepare an MP4 file that was "optimized" for Vimeo by Premier Elements provided presets. I've come to the conclusion that lossless is not a primary goal for me.
  • The MP4 file was uploaded with the Vimeo uploader over a very slow, shared and community WiFi internet connection. Had I losslessly combined clips, I would not have been able to upload due to bandwidth.
  • The video picture quality is "good enough" from a diminutive camera that takes wonderful photos. (Even though slashcam.de says it can't.)
  • The 21 MB RAW photo at the end was not processed in any other software and Premier Elements 11 handled it without issue.
  • 1080p60 files were no issue for the software and computer. It was an issue with my previous software and computer that had to be dealt with in strange ways.

From my point of view, learning how to do all this was not a minor accomplishment. The learning what combination of equipment from Sony, Panasonic, Adobe, Microsoft and ASUS to make 1080p60 editing quick and seamless was an interesting journey with each step costing money.

Thank you all for helping me learn this. Starting with no video knowledge two years ago, I tested every idea in some thread somewhere. Hopefully, I've "given back" some of it to others.

Best...
Bill
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post #2 of 27 Old 01-21-2013, 04:50 PM - Thread Starter
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A short clip showing some bright spots of color and motion in the water propelled by cruise ship "bow thrusters".

This is short. You should be able to download the 1080p60 unaltered original for pixel peeping.

http://vimeo.com/57888153

Bill
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post #3 of 27 Old 01-21-2013, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Another and unaltered short clip. This is San Francisco bay on a foggy day. Color still makes it through the fog. Uploaded at 1080p60 if you want to download and peek at the pixels!

http://vimeo.com/57896919

Bill
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post #4 of 27 Old 01-21-2013, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
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This very short clip has some motion in it: https://vimeo.com/57898389

The original is downloadable at Vimeo.

Bill
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post #5 of 27 Old 01-21-2013, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsprague View Post

As a "student" of the AVS Camcorder Forum, I have been trying to equip myself with the tools, techniques and equipment to "make video" for two years.
[*] The computer is an i7 laptop with a graphics card, Blu-Ray burner, and SSD for additional speed
[*] The software is Adobe Premier Elements 11 because it smoothly handles 1080p and provided all the "creative" options imaginable.
[*]1080p60 files were no issue for the software and computer. It was an issue with my previous software and computer that had to be dealt with in strange ways.

I avoided much of the above two years of pain and suffering via using a Mac. For many years Macs have shipped with the simple iMovie program preinstalled that is not hardware intensive. So no mega core processors or mega amounts of RAM are needed.1080p60 .mts files from Sony and Panasonic camcorders are handled with ease by even a 5 year old Mac if first rewrapped into .mov files using Clipwrap. Rewrapping takes only seconds so it's not a major inconvience. Many iMovie tutorials are available on Youtube for beginners as well as more advanced users. I got additional help from a Lynda.com iMovie training CD I bought on ebay for $18.00. I'm not saying all this to personally boast, but only to point out there are alternative, less painful paths for beginners.

Your RX100 video looks sharp with good brightness and colors and solidifies my preference for the lively look of still camera video vs the duller look of camcorder video.
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post #6 of 27 Old 01-21-2013, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD90 View Post

I avoided much of the above two years of pain and suffering via using a Mac. For many years Macs have shipped with the simple iMovie program preinstalled that is not hardware intensive. So no mega core processors or mega amounts of RAM are needed.1080p60 .mts files from Sony and Panasonic camcorders are handled with ease by even a 5 year old Mac if first rewrapped into .mov files using Clipwrap. Rewrapping takes only seconds so it's not a major inconvience.
But iMovie still needs to re-encode the original video into AIC even after rewrapping? Vegas (and Premiere, I suppose) can edit original AVCHD video. My oldish 2.2GHz AMD + oldish Nvidia 9600 have no problems with 1080p60 when running under Vegas 10 or 11. But I could re-encode too if I wanted. In Windows we have a choice, while Mac is a ruthless authoritarian system ;-)
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post #7 of 27 Old 01-22-2013, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

But iMovie still needs to re-encode the original video into AIC even after rewrapping?
As a Mac user I don't know or need to know in order to make a movie. All I know is Canon Rebel cameras like the T2i, 7D, etc. record videos as Quicktime mov files for direct import into iMovie. My Olympus OMD records movies as mp4 files which can also be directly imported into iMovie. But Sony & Panasonic 1080p60 mts videos must first be converted into .mov files (in seconds using the Clipwrap program) before they can be directly imported into iMovie - that's what I did earlier today to make this movie I shot in 1080p60 mode with my Panasonic LX7: https://vimeo.com/57868507
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post #8 of 27 Old 01-22-2013, 06:20 AM - Thread Starter
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A small crab boat on shimmering water in San Francisco, RX100, 1080p60, unedited. You can download the original for pixel peeping.

http://vimeo.com/57902754

Bill
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post #9 of 27 Old 01-22-2013, 06:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD90 View Post

I avoided much of the above two years of pain and suffering via using a Mac.
I didn't suffer. I've been having fun learning new skill and trying to understand the technology.

It's true that if a friend (or someone here!) had convinced me to buy an i7 computer, Premier Elements, one camera and then made me stay focused, I would have done it quicker. One problem was that three 1080p camcorders kept distracting me from learning editing and 1080p software was a lot less available two years ago.

I went to an Apple store when I was computer shopping. The computer with the same specs as the ASUS laptop I bought was twice the price. (i7, SSD, lots of RAM, big screen, etc) The ASUS came with a Blu-Ray burner built in.

I told the salesman I wanted a computer to run Premier Elements. He demoed that he could make an instant iMovie. It was flashy but crappy. Then he insisted buying a Mac Book would truly "change my life". I'm happy with my life. So, I left, bought a PC laptop and saved enough money to buy a couple of cameras.

SD90, if you get tired of instant iMovies and want to play with some more control, Premier Elements 11 runs fine on a Mac. It loads 1080p60 without Clipwrapping and does have a "Quick" instant movie mode with multiple themes.

Bill
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post #10 of 27 Old 01-22-2013, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

But iMovie still needs to re-encode the original video into AIC even after rewrapping? Vegas (and Premiere, I suppose) can edit original AVCHD video. My oldish 2.2GHz AMD + oldish Nvidia 9600 have no problems with 1080p60 when running under Vegas 10 or 11. But I could re-encode too if I wanted. In Windows we have a choice, while Mac is a ruthless authoritarian system ;-)

I hate to see the last part of your statement keep getting repeated and reinforced in people's minds, when it is simply wrong. You state the "Mac is a ruthless authoritarian . . . ", based on having to re-encode videos to edit, but that is simply not true. As Bill has pointed out, Premiere Elements 11 can edit AVCHD natively, and FCPX has that option, and both of those programs run on the Mac. So of course you don't have to re-encode AVCHD video to edit video on a Mac. You do have to re-encode if you want to edit AVCHD video on a Mac USING iMovie, but that is because of the architecture of iMovie, and has nothing to do with the architecture of a Mac.

As I have pointed out in other threads, re-encoding video can be desirable in some situations. Pros who use FCPX commonly re-encode video to a high quality codec because of the extensive editing that they do.

And Bill, thanks for posting the videos. I am at a location now in which my internet bandwidth is limited, so I hope to view them when I am back on my Verizon FIOS.
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post #11 of 27 Old 01-22-2013, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by David Sholle View Post

I hate to see the last part of your statement keep getting repeated and reinforced in people's minds
Did you see a smiley? But you are right, the OS itself has nothing to do with choices made by iMovie developers.
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post #12 of 27 Old 01-22-2013, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
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10 seconds of Black, Whte and Red at Fisherman's Wharf, San Francisco. This is a built in "effect" where you can pick a single color.

https://vimeo.com/57947334

The original is downloadable at Vimeo.

Bill
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post #13 of 27 Old 01-22-2013, 10:58 AM - Thread Starter
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20 seconds of an Oregon Lighthouse bathed in morning sun, RX100, 1080p60, unedited:

https://vimeo.com/57029122

The original is downloadable at Vimeo.

Bill
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post #14 of 27 Old 01-22-2013, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Learning to use the manual focus ring. The ring can be set for other things as well. This shows "focus pull", depth of field control or "bokeh effect", or whatever you want to call it. The camera is small enough that you almost have to attach a handle or monopod to the tripod socket to hold steady with one hand while twisting the ring with the other.

9 seconds in a cruise ship stateroom with first the curtain in focus and then the flowers. To get this to work in bright, outdoor light it would probably need an ND filter. I have one that attaches magnetically, but have yet to use it.

https://vimeo.com/57957847

Note that you can see detail in the ocean waves, the curtain and the flowers.

The original 1080p60 file is downloadable at Vimeo.

Bill
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post #15 of 27 Old 01-22-2013, 11:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Zooming with the button could be a little smoother. In the manual it says you might hear the zoom motor. I have not yet. The lens ring can be selected for zoom control.

7 seconds of zoom demo: https://vimeo.com/57960227

Bill
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post #16 of 27 Old 01-22-2013, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsprague View Post

Learning to use the manual focus ring. The ring can be set for other things as well. This shows "focus pull", depth of field control or "bokeh effect", or whatever you want to call it.
Wow, it feels like the ring has no lube at all :-)

Controlling depth of field - how much you want to be in focus and how much out of focus. You don't need to pull focus for that.
Focus pull - changing focusing distance
Bokeh - how the out of focus area looks like, in particular how the light spots look: four-bladed or eight-bladed or round or elliptical, harsh edge or soft edge, etc. This depends on the lens and on amount of blur.

So these are all different things ;-)
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post #17 of 27 Old 01-22-2013, 06:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

Wow, it feels like the ring has no lube at all :-)

Controlling depth of field - how much you want to be in focus and how much out of focus. You don't need to pull focus for that.
Focus pull - changing focusing distance
Bokeh - how the out of focus area looks like, in particular how the light spots look: four-bladed or eight-bladed or round or elliptical, harsh edge or soft edge, etc. This depends on the lens and on amount of blur.

So these are all different things ;-)
My point was that the RX100 has a control for that, not that I know how to use it! Yet!

Bill
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post #18 of 27 Old 01-22-2013, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
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11 second clip of interesting color in uncontrolled light and in automatic mode. In Mexico they celebrate a holiday called "The Day of the Dead". I think it is sort of like an advanced Halloween.

https://vimeo.com/57960225

The 1080p60 version can be downloaded.

Bill
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post #19 of 27 Old 01-22-2013, 07:33 PM
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I love the color and look of this (Day of the Dead) clip - it almost looks 3D too.

I am beginning to be swayed by SD90's view that the color in videos from cameras is richer than that from camcorders; this seems to be true for the NEX-5N, the LX7 and the Rx100 anyway, all of which can shoot 108060p like the best camcorders. Plus one gets some flexibility in how the videos look with camera controls, without the need for colorization in an editor (nothg wrong with that but it is evidently not easy to get right and a lot of work).
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post #20 of 27 Old 01-23-2013, 10:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

....I am beginning to be swayed by SD90's view that the color in videos from cameras is richer than that from camcorders......

Mark,

The videos you post here have the discipline of a Marine Corp Drill Instructor. You have the uncanny skill and (perhaps) determination to get the camera set right. Your hockey and baseball videos are good examples. Interesting is that you seem to be unwilling to let any pixel go. Your approach reminds me of what I remember reading about Ansel Adams when I was trying to learn B&W film. He had a zone system formula where exposure time and processing time would be adjusted to get all the detail in a scene. Post production techniques like burning and dodging were out of the question, regard less if they offered improvement. You seem to be similar in that you insist on no more than stitching clips together in ways they can't be transcoded or rendered.

(Don't get me wrong. I like your videos. I think I've watched every one -- even studied them a little!)

I'm in the other group that finds post processing fascinating. I'll give up the pixels lost in rendering if I think I'm gaining viewing experience quality. I like simple titles and transitions. I like mixing media in some projects.

Relative to this thread, I found the RX100 captured some detail that was not visible in the Day of the Dead clip. I was experimenting for the "Sinful Post Processing" thread where I discovered the 1080p file had some detail I couldn't see in the shadows and, for fun, I intensified the color.

The intent of this thread is what the RX100 can and can't do. If you watch the 11 seconds again, you may see the RX100 captured some additional detail in this bad light situation. Perhaps it shows that the RX100 can record in "low light", whatever that really is.

https://vimeo.com/58029354

Bill
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post #21 of 27 Old 01-23-2013, 07:52 PM
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Actually there is a philosophy behind the videos that stems from our audio work - we strive to give the illusion that the listener is hearing a live performance, with full dynmic range, accurate localization of players, low noise and full frequency response. The sound is to be real, not "impressive" or "impactful" beyond what is natural. This is done with minimal miking. Of course, the feeling of "being there" is an illusion - the illusion of reality.

The videos I sekk to make are also supposed to accurately convey the scene (what the photographer saw), taking the viewer to the setting as if he or she were there. If the scene is dramatic, then it will look dramatic. No adding a mood or a look. Of course, the scene has to be interesting -" look at this interesting thing I saw" - and there is literally a point of view and maybe even a story arc. So, loss of resolution reduces the feel of looking through a window; videos that are too soft or oddly colored or jerky or shaky do not fit.

This is a style choice. I appreciate oof films or painted up mood pieces too.
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post #22 of 27 Old 01-23-2013, 08:06 PM
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Bill, I looked at the revised 11-second video. There is distracting chroma noise in the clip now, a typical artifact of pushing up colors. Look at the bandana in the figure in the back - it pulsates. I wasn't looking for it; it's pretty obvious.
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post #23 of 27 Old 01-24-2013, 07:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

Bill, I looked at the revised 11-second video. There is distracting chroma noise in the clip now, a typical artifact of pushing up colors. Look at the bandana in the figure in the back - it pulsates. I wasn't looking for it; it's pretty obvious.

I saw that too. I went back last night and played with the several effects and adjustments I applied to see which one caused it. It appears I got carried away with the "vibrance" tool!

I'm in the middle of an awful and nasty family reunion video that is going to end up at 75 minutes. There is video from two cameras and photos from a third. It is forcing me to become more aquanted with my NLE! It is doubtful anybody is going to watch it, but I have to keep the commitment to the person that asked me to make it -- my wife!

When I'm done, the "Day of the Dead" clip will end up in a travel video. For now, I am only playing with it because it is full of color and not well lit. Hopefully the play will result in a better understanding of "effects" and where than can be used.

Given my limited bandwidth in my current RV campground, I can't upload more than short clips. If you, or anyone else, want to see more of what the RX100 does, or doesn't, I can put a few more clips on vimeo. I have a few from the Panama Canal and Columbia that I could show.

The RX100 is both expensive and popular as a photo camera. Most who buy it are trying to find a pocket sized substitute for much larger DSLRs that they already own. My purpose in starting this thread is only to demo or display what the RX100 does with video, which is not it's primary function!

Bill
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post #24 of 27 Old 01-24-2013, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Two more unaltered videos uploaded at 1080p.

I ship moving through the Panama Cana with a variety of bright colors:
https://vimeo.com/58132896

A pelican flying with the RX100 on maximum optical zoom. Optical zoom is only a 35mm equivalent of 105, or 3x. There is rapid panning to keep up with the bird. If you download the original you can see some good detail in the feathers as it flies by.
https://vimeo.com/58132264

Bill
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post #25 of 27 Old 02-10-2013, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

I love the color and look of this (Day of the Dead) clip - it almost looks 3D too.

I am beginning to be swayed by SD90's view that the color in videos from cameras is richer than that from camcorders; this seems to be true for the NEX-5N, the LX7 and the Rx100 anyway, all of which can shoot 108060p like the best camcorders. Plus one gets some flexibility in how the videos look with camera controls, without the need for colorization in an editor (nothg wrong with that but it is evidently not easy to get right and a lot of work).

Mark, this is one of the things I was trying to tell you about the NEX VG20/30 vs camcorders. The color is richer and more true to life. As you know, my major issue with the GW77 (aside from lacking a VF and having difficulty setting accurate exposure on bright days with the LCD and its awkward exposure adjustement) is the fact that its color can definitely be relatively drab...especially when compared to the NEX cams. I'm not even talking about DOF, just the pure video qualities.

Even though a camcorder like the 77 might be more resolute on close inspection, the better color & dynamic range of the NEX series is something you see immediately, no close inspection necessary. smile.gif
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post #26 of 27 Old 02-12-2013, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Done in bad, high noon light as a "greeting card" for a friend that likes hot rods. He is stuck in rainy, gloomy weather. Edited in Premier Elements 11.

https://vimeo.com/59371468

On Edit: I deleted that video and replaced it with: https://vimeo.com/62955392

Bill
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post #27 of 27 Old 04-30-2013, 09:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Another sample of the RX100... This one in the Grand Canyon. https://vimeo.com/64474485

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