Why do you shoot video and what do you do with finished projects? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 34 Old 02-06-2013, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
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In the thread on the V700, a new member from the UK is interested in buying a camcorder. He is an avid photographer, but was wondering what people do with their video. Specifically, you can't make prints or books! He doesn't want to spend the money and then discover his masterpieces are never viewed.

Since his question would take the V700 thread off topic and the question applies to users of any camcorder, I thought it might be useful to start a new thread.

Nigel's original post is here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1403509/the-official-panasonic-hc-v700-owners-thread/600#post_22926450

Yes, I know the forum is about equipment. But, what we use it for might count too!

Bill

PS: The few threads I've started myself have died pretty quickly!
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post #2 of 34 Old 02-06-2013, 08:41 AM - Thread Starter
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My first attraction to buying a camcorder, and learning video, was the result of some interest expressed by two granddaughters. So, my biggest video thrill has been learning a new process and way of thinking with them.

My two favorite videos I've done are about family members. One is about my brother building a rifle used in 1776. The other is about the same two granddaughters winning blue ribbons for their chickens at a county fair.

My most viewed on YouTube is about how to do an electrical upgrade making headlights brighter on one brand of motorhome.

My most challenging project is a very long interview, conducted at 5 locations, of a family elder. My granddaughters did the shooting with two cameras and I'm almost done with editing. I've had to find the best parts of 4 hours of footage and make them watchable.

To answer Nigels basic question of "why video", I think, like many things, it is learning a new way to see, think and display that is intriguing. With photography you freeze the motion of interesting moments. With video you capture the interesting motion itself, along with the sounds associated. If you are a photographer, you have to retrain your brain to think like a videographer.

Even though you can't make prints for framing or books, the variety of ways to watch video is broad.

My current goal is to master my editing software to the point where using it does not get in the way of what I want to do. I want it to be as natural a tool as the hammer I use to drive nails.

My long range goal is to build a library of video that meet my standards on a media player attached to my HD TV. I may be the only one watching, but that is not important. It will include family stuff, travel and "special projects" as they pop up.

Bill
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post #3 of 34 Old 02-06-2013, 10:08 AM
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My granddaughter is four and I have shot more videos of her than my two older grandsons since my first 1080p camera was purchased a month after she was born and about nine months when I purchased my first HDSLR. IMHO video is light years ahead of stills when it comes to showing real life. Here are a few videos of her from about nine months to just short of four years.





BTW the videos were shot with a Pentax K-7 DSLR, Panasonic GH2, Panasonic TM700 and Sony NEX-VG900 .
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post #4 of 34 Old 02-06-2013, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Jogiba,

Nice job of providing an example of where capturing the motion and sound with video tells a different story than if you had a photo from any of the finest DSLRs.
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post #5 of 34 Old 02-06-2013, 01:10 PM
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Like jogiba said, "video is light years ahead of stills when it comes to showing real life", plus the image quality nowadays is nearly the same as stills if the video is played back in 1080. In the 1960's my parents shot home and vacation movies with an 8mm film movie camera and that footage is so much more real life to watch than the still family photos they shot at the time.
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post #6 of 34 Old 02-07-2013, 12:09 AM
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Yes i have to agree,although us videographers are a very small minority compared to people who do stills only,a video shows life or anything far better than stills,i like wildlife as well as family and general films of fairs etc,what would planet earth be like if it was a long series of stills.
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post #7 of 34 Old 02-07-2013, 03:18 AM
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Firstly, thanks to Bill for taking the time and effort to respond to my original post and then start this new thread. It seems like a good "bolt on" to the main topic about the actual gear and accessories.

Jogiba's short clips of his grand-daughter are lovely (you almost fall into those beautiful big eyes of the baby!!) and I would imagine getting film of children growing up is very precious. I missed the boat there as my two girls are well and truly grown up!!! Plenty of stills to look back on though!

I'm not too sure about the views of video being "light years ahead of stills" as there is a place for both of these in the world of photography and there are certainly subjects that just do not lend themselves to video - but users of each will of course have a little bias!! But that comment is useful as it shows that there must be a whole lot more to video than is apparent to us stills guys!!

My main reason for wanting some feedback was not just around subject matter - ie recording the development of ones children or other family members as I think this goes without saying. It is more about how the finished product is used. This may seem strange at first to seasoned video hobbyists, but I tried to liken it to what I and many other still photographers do with the finished still product.

As one example. my latest golf / sightseeing trip to Florida was brilliant (3 weeks in shorts in October for a Brit is awesome!!) and I took lots and lots of photographs as you can imagine. I have created a wonderful hard backed photobook of the trip - which incidentally ended with almost a full day in New York whilst waiting for the connecting flight from Newark!!.....more photo opportunities!! This makes a great coffee table type book and looks good on a book shelf too! This way the photo's are much more likely to be viewed...and more often. It also gives a condensed view of the whole trip.

This is just one way of enjoying the memories of the holiday (in stills) and there are many more that I hinted at in my other post, and others that I did not.

I suppose that a lot of it boils down to experience. Inexperienced stills photographers will shoot uninteresting pictures until they gain the experience of composure, lighting, subject matter etc and the same must be true with video shooting?

So, what do you video creators do with your finished projects - and in what formats etc? How often are they watched? Are there communities for video creations with similar hobbies or interests to be shared etc?

I am certainly not trying to "talk" my self out of expanding into video work - far from it - but I would be really interested in how others use their finished movies.....apart from capturing ones families progress from birth to adulthood that is (which is obviously a wonderful use of the camcorder....but not something I can now do)

I also don't want to start a stills versus movie argument either!! Each has it's place. I am just genuinely interested - and hoping for some ideas and inspiration - as to how other experienced people utilise the painstaking video projects that you have produced

Thanks again to Bill and thanks for reading a "newby's" concerns!

Nigel
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post #8 of 34 Old 02-07-2013, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJM48 View Post

.............My main reason for wanting some feedback was not just around subject matter - ie recording the development of ones children or other family members as I think this goes without saying. It is more about how the finished product is used. This may seem strange at first to seasoned video hobbyists, but I tried to liken it to what I and many other still photographers do with the finished still product.

As one example. my latest golf / sightseeing trip to Florida was brilliant (3 weeks in shorts in October for a Brit is awesome!!) and I took lots and lots of photographs as you can imagine. I have created a wonderful hard backed photobook of the trip - ................

So, what do you video creators do with your finished projects - and in what formats etc? How often are they watched? Are there communities for video creations with similar hobbies or interests to be shared etc?........
Nigel,

I used to be a photographer using 35mm film and even sold a few pictures. I lost interest when film went away and I devoted my time to work. Now I have the time to try and learn "graphic arts" that includes digital photography and video, which for me is a new world. With today's digital tools, the range of learning opportunities is overwhelming. But the goal is still to learn to communicate a story, idea or experience with graphics based media.

Your Florida trip sounds fantastic. I had a trip to London last year in the fall that was full of photo and video opportunities. Unfortunately, the final product is unfinished because the fun process of learning video editing had to come first.

My goal for that trip, and a few others since, is to make a TV version of your coffee table book. Instead of your book on a bookshelf, I will have a video on my "media player" attached to my living room TV. Just as with your book, when there is a reason to look at it, I can flip the TV on and play it.

Have you thought of an envelope in the back of your coffee table book with a DVD or Blu-Ray disk that enhances the story of your trip? Should a guest like some off the stills in your book, they might enjoy a video enhancement to the story.

Other projects I've shared through Vimeo. Vimeo is smaller and more focused than YouTube. It seems to appeal to more serious "graphic artists" than YouTube. It has "communities" defined by channels, categories and groups based on common interests. You might enjoy exploring there.

I've put a few projects on DVDs or Blu-Ray disks, even though those may seem old fashioned in today's world. One is a family reunion documentary that may only be viewed by dozen relatives, but I think it will be important to them. At Christmas I showed them a 3 minute preview at a family gathering. They forced be to play the remainder of the 20 minutes I had finished. Many of the sequences have still photos overlaid on the video.

I have one very short video of a granddaughter that lives on her mother's phone!

Bill
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post #9 of 34 Old 02-07-2013, 11:12 AM
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Bill

Yes, the Florida trip was great - 5 golfing guys staying over at St Pete's beach!! Went to Fantasy of Flight one day and went up in a bi-plane!! Got some really good photo's and some short video taken with the digital camera. Probably a ready made project waiting to be filmed!!

Now your suggestion of a DVD on the inside cover would really compliment the whole project - what a good idea!! Pity I wasn't planning a new venture into video then!!

But....we have just booked another golf themed holiday - Orlando area this time in early November, so I have the opportunity to take your suggestion on board if I do take the plunge (which is looking increasingly likely just from your reply!!)

Thanks for the heads up on Vimeo - I'll take a look around. My eldest daughter is a Graphic Designer and she may be interested too.

Thanks again

Nigel
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post #10 of 34 Old 02-07-2013, 01:01 PM
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I agree with Bill. Video and/or pictures, they both should be presented in a way that tells a story. And whereas a picture captures a moment in time, a video captures a whole series of moments in time along with the treasure of the sound also. Over the past several years, I have shot family, vacations, real trains while on "railfan" trips, model railroads for friends, and have shot some beautiful scenery of some of our best National Parks making a video presentation of the best of those scenes with music background. People just love those western mountain videos in HD, and I have sold several train videos to other railfans. What is the differnce between a "family on vacation home movies" and a good video presentation? Storyline.

Good luck to you.
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post #11 of 34 Old 02-07-2013, 01:40 PM
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What an excellent topic! I've also wondered about the end product for videography and if there was any other future for my projects besides floating around on Youtube or ending up on a dusty shelf as a DVD/Blu-ray.

Bill, you make an excellent point about adding another dimension to photobooks.

jogiba, thanks for posting those examples -- they were very enjoyable.

I'm also new to this video production business (have a little background in photography and shot with an entry level DSLR for the past few years) but my father recently gave me the Panasonic HC-V700 to document the birth of my son, who is due to make his appearance next weekend. So, for the past month or so I've been trying to learn the fundamentals of the camera, how to shoot, and how to edit. It's really blown my mind, the amount of creativity and storytelling that is possible with a simple handy cam and $50 video editing software.

That said, I'm curious for more examples of how you folks have told your stories -- specifically how have you framed and compiled even everyday shots into a nice storytelling package? I love viewing other people's finished products. However, it's hard to sift through Youtube to find valuable examples of individuals who have created neat home movie style compilations. Sounds like Vimeo might be worth a look for me also.

Here's my first shot at using Sony Movie Studio Platinum 12 Suite; feedback welcome:

Any other examples you all don't mind sharing?

Evan
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post #12 of 34 Old 02-07-2013, 03:09 PM - Thread Starter
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....... It's really blown my mind, the amount of creativity and storytelling that is possible with a simple handy cam and $50 video editing software.
That's what happened to me too!

Bill
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post #13 of 34 Old 02-07-2013, 03:32 PM - Thread Starter
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......

Any other examples you all don't mind sharing?

Evan,

Sharing on a public web site through YouTube and Vimeo are a problem for me. My favorites usually have my family or friends in them. So, they are not for public consumption on the internet! That's goes double for my videos with my granddaughters.

That said, I do have one that both my brother and I like that tells a story about both my brother and the history of a gun he made from a kit. The background is that he became fascinated with the history of a 1776 British rifle. So much so that he bought a kit that included replicas of the original castings with their 1776 level of technology. He worked at it sporadically for five years and occasionally told me about his progress. One day, he invited me to out in the woods and shoot it! Imagine the opportunity to try out technology that is 200+ years old.

I took a very modest camera with me as an afterthought. I did not want to hijack his shooting demonstration into my video production. The only plan I had was to take video if I could, as long as it didn't get in the way of his agenda.. When I got home I put together what I could with my $50 editing software.

Enjoy!

https://vimeo.com/36973087
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post #14 of 34 Old 02-07-2013, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJM48 View Post


So, what do you video creators do with your finished projects - and in what formats etc? How often are they watched? Are there communities for video creations with similar hobbies or interests to be shared etc?

I am certainly not trying to "talk" my self out of expanding into video work - far from it - but I would be really interested in how others use their finished movies.....apart from capturing ones families progress from birth to adulthood that is (which is obviously a wonderful use of the camcorder....but not something I can now do)

I also don't want to start a stills versus movie argument either!! Each has it's place. I am just genuinely interested - and hoping for some ideas and inspiration - as to how other experienced people utilise the painstaking video projects that you have produced

Thanks again to Bill and thanks for reading a "newby's" concerns!

Nigel

Nigel,

I shoot to have a record for family, friends, school events, and sports teams, etc. Just think if our forefathers had video gear way back, and we could see what life was really like. I enjoyed putting together videos for viewing for the family, extended family as the years have gone by. Been shooting video since the late 1980's with VHS, VHS-C, and down the line as cameras improved. One just needs to start getting some footage to use down the road.wink.gif Film just a minute or two here and there, silly things, going to the mall, first day of school, etc and you will get good footage to use later on. I share some online and others I don't depending on the viewing audience
.
Here is one I did a few weeks ago, for a quick glimpse into the world of some H.S. girl sprinters.

https://vimeo.com/57169267 Vimeo tends to stutter videos among other issues, but it is what it is.
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post #15 of 34 Old 02-07-2013, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is one I did a few weeks ago, for a quick glimpse into the world of some H.S. girl sprinters.

https://vimeo.com/57169267 .

Your good! The mix of B&W, fade to black and slow motion is creative. I'm motivated to add your imagination to my editing efforts!

Thanks.

Bill
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post #16 of 34 Old 02-08-2013, 11:04 AM
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Bill and Blasst, many thanks for sharing those -- thoroughly enjoyed them.

Bill, I must admit I'm a little jealous of your brother's nifty toy! Very cool to be able to get your hands on one of those, let alone build it. Funny because my wife and I just watched The Last of the Mohicans last week.

Blasst, I second Bill's comments and your title is fitting indeed.

Thanks again, gentlemen.

Evan
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post #17 of 34 Old 02-08-2013, 12:38 PM
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Wow! Some great stuff there guys - Evanwhat, that is a different approach - not seen any video inset onto a still shot before, and I like how you have worked in the stills.

Got to say though, when the title "Making Baby" came up I wondered what was coming next!!! LOL

Got to agree with Bill about the very dramatic opening scenes to the sprint vid - very imaginative Blaast.......and then when my connection behaved itself and I could watch it all the way through,,,,,,,,,,,,wow!! superb stuff!!

Bill - Will I be able to do the slow motion stuff you have (the gun blast) on a V700? EDIT - just seen Blasst's vid all the way through now and I think the answer is yes!! If Blasst was using the V700

Some food for thought here. Looks like things have come a long way since the old tape in the camera jobs!!

By the way - I took the plunge today and ordered the V700!! Rapidly selling out here at the new lower price and some stores are not restocking (probably because of the imminent release of the V720) so got one just in time at the right price
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post #18 of 34 Old 02-08-2013, 01:12 PM
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On the theme of content - take a look at this marvelous video (amateur footage)

This is beyond doubt the best film of an encounter with wild gorillas and humans - it is truly amazing. The look on the guy who is sitting through it all says it all!!!

http://www.youtube.com/v/1eXS0o6r-Wk%26rel%3d0%26hl%3den_US%26feature%3dplayer_embedded%26version%3d3




Nigel
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post #19 of 34 Old 02-08-2013, 01:39 PM
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I tinker with video – I haven’t really developed skill with ‘storytelling’ through video, but I do enjoy studying the technical aspects of the cameras, etc. as a hobby of sorts. One of the first things that I was enthused about when I first got into computers was the possibility of editing video with it. You might think that I would have developed a pretty fair skillset by now considering that, but not particularly. LOL

I can technically cobble something together of pretty fair quality though if not as artistic as what you’ll see on Vimeo. A lot of those guys are professionals and/or have the ‘reel’ of their work hosted there. Some really amazingly talented people certainly. I enjoy flipping through and checking out what they’ve done, but in some cases it’s like they attempted to show every trick they know into a 2 minute clip and it’s just overwhelming.

I have considered putting together a documentary of my life’s story and worked on it for a while and just lost steam. I have a lot of media that I could put together, but at best it would be ‘rough cut’ of it for somebody else to possibly create something watchable from.

I was able to put my small cache of gear to a pretty good use last fall and capture a Veteran’s Day Memorial Ceremony for a Classmate who gave his life in Service at our High School. I burned off copies for the family and friends on DVD and Blu-ray, but frankly, I’m not so sure that they really had the gear themselves to play them. They never really clearly responded that their players were compatible. They played on my Panny.

http://vimeo.com/53442542

It didn’t turn out too bad. Obviously pretty amateurish, but you don’t see anyone else there doing it better. It was my first real outing with my fluid head and sticks; setup my still camera for a ‘b’ camera (very luckily because I had some really bad pans/tilts in there).

Vimeo is a cool ‘community’ for a more serious videographer. It has its issues, but it has upsides. They host your source files for you that others can download and have copies of. They have a ‘tip jar’ now where you might get a few donations for your work, etc.

If you’re the sort of dude that frequents the AVS Forum; then you will probably enjoy video as a hobby. It’s just fun to learn about even if you lack terrific artistic skill.
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post #20 of 34 Old 02-08-2013, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsprague View Post

Your good! The mix of B&W, fade to black and slow motion is creative. I'm motivated to add your imagination to my editing efforts!

Thanks.

Bill

Quote:
Originally Posted by evanwhat View Post

Bill and Blasst, many thanks for sharing those -- thoroughly enjoyed them.

Bill, I must admit I'm a little jealous of your brother's nifty toy! Very cool to be able to get your hands on one of those, let alone build it. Funny because my wife and I just watched The Last of the Mohicans last week.

Blasst, I second Bill's comments and your title is fitting indeed.

Thanks again, gentlemen.

Evan

Bill and Evan, thanks for the compliments. That clip was great fun to film and edit since my daughter is in the video, the one from Costa Mesa.wink.gif
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post #21 of 34 Old 02-08-2013, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJM48 View Post

Wow! Some great stuff there guys - Evanwhat, that is a different approach - not seen any video inset onto a still shot before, and I like how you have worked in the stills.

Got to say though, when the title "Making Baby" came up I wondered what was coming next!!! LOL

Got to agree with Bill about the very dramatic opening scenes to the sprint vid - very imaginative Blaast.......and then when my connection behaved itself and I could watch it all the way through,,,,,,,,,,,,wow!! superb stuff!!

Bill - Will I be able to do the slow motion stuff you have (the gun blast) on a V700? EDIT - just seen Blasst's vid all the way through now and I think the answer is yes!! If Blasst was using the V700

Some food for thought here. Looks like things have come a long way since the old tape in the camera jobs!!

By the way - I took the plunge today and ordered the V700!! Rapidly selling out here at the new lower price and some stores are not restocking (probably because of the imminent release of the V720) so got one just in time at the right price


For that clip, I used a Canon HV10 and Canon HF M41. For the slow mo parts I used a plug in called "Twixtor" that gives a much better slow mo look than what most editing programs deliver.

You could download the HD clip from Vimeo, and see how much better it looks.
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post #22 of 34 Old 02-08-2013, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Bill - Will I be able to do the slow motion stuff you have (the gun blast) on a V700? EDIT - just seen Blasst's vid all the way through now and I think the answer is yes!! If Blasst was using the V700

Slow motion is pretty easy. There seems to be many ways to do it. But for me, the first part is starting with the highest setting in these AVCHD cameras which is called 1080p60. Somehow it manages to take 60 full frames per second. Then that "regular" footage goes into my editing software where the "slow motion" tool is applied.

But, in the gun video I didn't know how to do slow motion. I had not notice my software could do it. I had discovered that my software would do "frame grabs" meaning a still photo from any of those 60 per second. I looked at the footage and found that there were 7 frames between trigger pull and muzzle blast, so I made 7 still photos for the video track. I borrowed the audio track and lined up a copy with the muzzle blast. I thought I was being creative.

Later I discovered that my software actually does real slow motion all by itself. This is the automatic version produced by Adobe Premier Elements 10: https://vimeo.com/40244658

Since I did that video, I've upgraded to version 11 and it has an additional slow motion tool that's even better. Here is a short clip of a girl I know trying to hit a ball over the fence: https://vimeo.com/58252577

For what it's worth Nigel, half the fun comes with the editing. You camera will come with a pretty good one. I tried several and kept confusing myself. Finally I picked one to concentrate on. I chose Adobe Premier Elements because it is cheap, can work with Photoshop Elements and I have a friend that works at Adobe. So far, I have not found anything I don't like about it.

Bill
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post #23 of 34 Old 02-09-2013, 03:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJM48 View Post

On the theme of content - take a look at this marvelous video (amateur footage)

This is beyond doubt the best film of an encounter with wild gorillas and humans - it is truly amazing. The look on the guy who is sitting through it all says it all!!!

http://www.youtube.com/v/1eXS0o6r-Wk%26rel%3d0%26hl%3den_US%26feature%3dplayer_embedded%26version%3d3




Nigel

It must have been one heck of an experience,How anyone can slaughter these wonderful animals is beyond me.
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post #24 of 34 Old 02-09-2013, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Blasst View Post

For the slow mo parts I used a plug in called "Twixtor" that gives a much better slow mo look than what most editing programs deliver.

Will that plug in work in any editing software? Particularly Adobe Premiere Elements 11?

Thanks

Nigel
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post #25 of 34 Old 02-09-2013, 06:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJM48 View Post

Will that plug in work in any editing software? Particularly Adobe Premiere Elements 11?

Thanks

Nigel
Here is a link to the Twixtor compatibility chart: http://www.revisionfx.com/products/twixtor/compatibility/. PrE11 is not listed nor would it make sense. Twixtor is priced at about 4 times the price of PrE11! However, it does list Sony Movie Studio, which is a popular consumer priced video editor that many like.

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post #26 of 34 Old 02-09-2013, 06:37 AM - Thread Starter
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One of the main things I like about Premier Elements is what appears to me as a commitment to showing customers how to use their software. One of them is called "Adobe TV". One episode shows the new slow motion tool that was added for version 11. It is short and fun to watch. http://tv.adobe.com/watch/adobe-digital-school-collection/time-remapping-with-adobe-premiere-elements-11/

Another video on the same subject includes an explanation of frame blending: http://tv.adobe.com/watch/learn-premiere-elements-11/speed-up-or-slow-down-video-segments-withtime-remapping/

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post #27 of 34 Old 02-09-2013, 01:16 PM
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Bill, thanks again for the tip on Vimeo -- I must have spent upwards of an hour last night browsing the Everyday Life / Family category. Many talented videographers there!
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Originally Posted by Fastfwd View Post

Vimeo is a cool ‘community’ for a more serious videographer. It has its issues, but it has upsides. They host your source files for you that others can download and have copies of. They have a ‘tip jar’ now where you might get a few donations for your work, etc.

If you’re the sort of dude that frequents the AVS Forum; then you will probably enjoy video as a hobby. It’s just fun to learn about even if you lack terrific artistic skill.

Fastfwd, thanks for the additional info about Vimeo -- hadn't known that about the service. My plunge into the world of videography over the past month or so has been eye-opening. It's definitely going to be a hobby that will stick. Hopefully my skills will develop right along with my son as he grows.

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post #28 of 34 Old 02-09-2013, 04:46 PM - Thread Starter
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"My plunge into the world of videography over the past month or so has been eye-opening."

Me too!

Bill
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post #29 of 34 Old 02-12-2013, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blasst View Post

For that clip, I used a Canon HV10 and Canon HF M41. For the slow mo parts I used a plug in called "Twixtor" that gives a much better slow mo look than what most editing programs deliver.

You could download the HD clip from Vimeo, and see how much better it looks.

What editing software did you use for that video? Do you use one particular piece of software for all your work?

Thanks


Nigel
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post #30 of 34 Old 02-12-2013, 08:23 AM - Thread Starter
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What do you do with video? Here is an example from last weekend.

I have a good friend stuck in the cold wet weather near Seattle. He is near retirement and I am already there and snowbirding in Arizona.. He is a "hot rod junkie".

I went to a street fair where there were some cars on display. I made friend a "video greeting card" with a teaser about the weather. I edited in Adobe Premier Pro. It took about a half hour. I started with a video clip, added three photos. I copied the audio from the one video clip and pasted it under two of the photos. Then I added a title and a closing screen.

This was "quick and dirty". Light was high noon terrible I shot with a hand held pocket camera. I did not have my "quality" gear or usual monopod. It was also more fun and more appropriate than sending my friend a card.

In return, he sent me several snapshot of a hot rod he restored and drives.

https://vimeo.com/59371468

Bill
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