PS4 to support 4K videos - AVS Forum
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Old 02-22-2013, 03:12 AM - Thread Starter
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http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/02/21/playstation-4-wont-support-4k-games-3d-not-a-focus

The current HDMI spec is HDMI 1.4b which can only handle up to 30p at that resolution and version 2.0 which can handle up to 60p is expected to be released during the first half of this year so good chance the PS4 will get that since the release is possibly in November. It's probably also a BDXL drive so that would mean 100GB Blu-Ray disc capable. Future consumer 4K TV's should have HDMI 2.0 as well for true 3840x2160 60p.

I'll probably try to get a PS4 almost immediately since I also play games sometimes although I probably wont be getting a 4K TV that soon though unless I hit the jackpot. Yes, speaking of jackpot, that Sony F55 would make a nice 4K camera to go with it

Anyway, unlike the PS3 that can sometimes struggle with some 1080 60p footage, the PS4 should be rock solid.

I really hope to hear more info about the video capabilities soon.
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Old 02-22-2013, 04:29 AM
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Paulo, the current crop of 4K UHD displays can only handle 4K up to 30p. So even if you hit that jackpot, you might want to wait for the 2nd gen of 4K displays. smile.gif
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Old 02-22-2013, 06:00 AM
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Forget 4K, 1080p60 is the most you will see from PS4 games .
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I probably didn't say it in the best way but I did mean I'd want the newer consumer 4K TV's with HDMI 2.0 that aren't actually out yet since the spec is still being worked on.

Also, I never said anything here about 4K gaming, I'm just talking about 4K videos which will translate to 2160p when it comes to future consumer HD camcorders.
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Old 02-22-2013, 01:56 PM
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Maybe in a few years but 4K is not ready for the consumer market in 2013.
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There are no standards
This is, perhaps the biggest problem with Ultra HD displays available right now/soon. HDMI 1.4, the current standard, allows for a maximum of 4,096x2,160 pixels at 24fps. Granted this is slightly higher than the 3,840x2,160 of the current crop of Ultra HD displays, but it is not enough to do 4K 3D. It's not enough to do higher frame rates, either, which may or may not come into play (though with computers, it certainly will). Rumors point toward HDMI 2.0 offering more bandwidth, so higher resolutions and frame rates can be transmitted over everyone's favorite cable, but that will require different transmitter and receiver chips. This won't be a software upgrade, so all the current Ultra HD displays are already obsolete. Remember, this isn't as simple as swapping out a new cable; the hardware in the TV won't be able to accept the higher data rates. I don't hear any manufacturer mentioning that upgrade path for their $20,000 televisions.

When there is a standard, who knows what it might have? Maybe they will improve some aspect of color (either in better color depth or in a wider color gamut or both). These Ultra HD displays won't be able to take advantage of that, either.
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57566079-221/why-ultra-hd-4k-tvs-are-still-stupid/


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Existing 40 inch 1920x1080 HDTV is a "Retina Display" when viewed from 5.2 feet or more
Existing 50 inch 1920x1080 HDTV is a "Retina Display" when viewed from 6.5 feet or more
Existing 60 inch 1920x1080 HDTV is a "Retina Display" when viewed from 7.8 feet or more
http://www.displaymate.com/news.html#7
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Old 02-22-2013, 11:41 PM - Thread Starter
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3840 × 2160p can do 30p right now.

Nobody expect 4K TV's to be mainstream in 2013 anyway although some people who have loads of $$$$$ will get it. Sony for example is expected to release new 4K sets this year for possibly under $10,000. I haven't done research on them but I'm assuming it'll get HDMI 2.0 and Sony might be waiting until 2.0 is finished before they release them. Apple already have a 2880x1800p screen in the 15" MacBook Pro so I expect to see much more affordable prices on 4K TV's being shown during CES 2014. It'll still be a bit expensive for your average consumer unless the economy gets much better in 2014. 2015 is when it can really start to take off. The thing is, a lot of PS4's will start to be in people's homes starting the end of this year and JVC, Panasonic, Sony and Canon have all been experimenting with small chips ready for 4K camcorders. Who knows if a company will be willing to release a consumer 4K camcorder next year for under $1,500. If not, for sure we'll see them during CES 2015. Another reason why I think it might start to take off in 2015 at least by enthusiasts.

One benefit of 4K TV's is being able to display 1080p 3D images much better than native 1080p sets although it's true than not many people have been into 3D.

Technology is always progressing rather some of us care or not. Companies will always try to develop new things to try and make more money. 1080p TV's have gotten extremely cheap and recently, 3D TV's have gotten extremely cheap and so it's expected 4K will be pushed very hard since they'll be able to get some good profits again.

Because Sony is doing 4K in their next PlayStation, it wouldn't surprise me if Microsoft will want to do the same and then theirs Red who also wants to push 4K players although they'll have to release much cheaper boxes because the current one for $1,450 is very steep for a box that is mostly good for 4K videos. http://www.red.com/store/products/redray-player

I really hope the PS4's lowest model is $400 but since it has 8GB of GDDR5 RAM, it wont surprise me to see a price tag of $450 for the low model but we'll see. $400 is a good goal if it can happen and I'm sure Sony will want to know how much Microsoft will price it's next game system.
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Old 02-23-2013, 02:34 AM
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Well said, Paulo.
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Old 02-23-2013, 06:46 AM
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I bet a 4K setup that includes the 4K video camera, PC with 4K monitor with 4K editing software and HDTV to watch it cost up around $100,000 today but will drop to todays 1080p60 setup level in about four or five years.
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Old 02-23-2013, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

3840 × 2160p can do 30p right now.

Nobody expect 4K TV's to be mainstream in 2013 anyway although some people who have loads of $$$$$ will get it. Sony for example is expected to release new 4K sets this year for possibly under $10,000. I haven't done research on them but I'm assuming it'll get HDMI 2.0 and Sony might be waiting until 2.0 is finished before they release them.

Unfortunately not Paulo. The newest Sony 4K sets (to be released in 65" & 55" models) I don't believe will sport HDMI 2.0 and thus no 4K 60p, since their release is imminent. I believe they're targeting April which is too soon for HDMI 2.0.

http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921666519131#overview
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Old 02-23-2013, 10:11 AM - Thread Starter
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I was sort of thinking of that as well but since the new HDMI spec is expected to be finished the first half of this year, I do wonder if Sony would be willing to delay it until then. I mean wouldn't they probably sell a bit more sets if it comes with HDMI 2.0? On the other hand, it would probably be hard for Sony to brag about it knowing that they recently came out with a far more expensive TV with the older spec. If it doesn't get the newest spec than for sure all of them will for CES 2014. They probably should wait until the spec is finished before releasing these 2 TVs but it'll obviously be up to Sony. They don't even want to announce the prices yet but they are probably still debating over it.
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Old 02-23-2013, 10:33 AM
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You think the new HDMI spec will need a hardware revision or just a simple firmware, software revision?
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Old 02-23-2013, 11:38 AM
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Since many HD broadcasters like ABC, Disney, ESPN, FOX etc still use 720p and not too many consumers complain about that I bet it will take longer for 4K UDTV to take off compared to the 720p/1080p HDTV migration from standard definition TV. Sure you could purchase a Canon C500 4K camera body for $26,000 or EOS-1D C DSLR style body for $12,000 but by the time you add all the other 4K gear you need it will be out of reach for most people. For now most people including myself will be satisfied to go see a good 4K/5K 3D movie at my local Imax theater until 4K prices drop down to todays 1080p60 level.
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Old 02-23-2013, 12:51 PM
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The reason why 4K displays are coming out now is because sales of 1080 hdtv's have been going down for the last couple of years, they want to have a reason for people to buy new TV sets to get sales going back up because almost everyone has a 1080 hdtv. Along with the new hevc/h.265 spec there will be new versions of the h.264 spec that will support good 4k, the advantage of newer h.264 is that broadcasters can use existing equipment to broadcast 4k. And also of course they want us to upgrade to 4K camcorders
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Old 02-23-2013, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
It will take more than a higher-resolution picture for the average consumer to buy a 4K television, and retailers should not expect volume sales for at least another three years.
http://www.dealerscope.com/article/4k-tv-sales-slow-until-more-content-apps-faster-broadband/1
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Old 02-23-2013, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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We already have a JVC camcorder that shoots in 2160 60p for 5 grand and if you want much bigger chips, it wouldn't be surprising if the next GH camera is 4K. Prices right now are irrelevant anyway since again nobody is saying it'll take off in 2013. I just think the for the 2015 electronics, the prices might be low enough that a lot of enthusiasts will be interested rather or not a lot of stations will be ready. Still, it's not like we wont be able to be watching our own 4K home movies and I'm sure they'll be a ton of 4K content to download and it wont surprise me if we'll be able to have 4K movies on Blu-Ray discs that are compatible with the PS4. Just read up on the technology Red is using on their RedRay plays just to give you 1 example that movie files wont have to be gigantic because of how advanced codecs are getting.

Speaking of 4K cameras/camcorders, it wont be just about resolution, I'm sure they'll be other features that you wont find on HD models just to get people to upgrade such as a better stabilizer and the chips possibly being global. Same with TV's like Sony putting far better speakers on their new yet to be released 4K screens.

As for any articles that you'll want to link to, it's all opinions just like all of us are doing. Still, the last one you posted claims that stores shouldn't expect to move many until perhaps late 2015. I did say that it could be until that year that it starts to pick up as well although it'll probably be mostly enthusiasts. For example, people who browse the AVS Forum since you'll probably read about a lot of people bragging that they just got a 4K TV.
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Old 02-23-2013, 09:21 PM
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JVC GY-HMQ10 4K Compact Handheld Camcorder review by verified buyer:
Quote:
4K = 4x video quality? wrong - 4K video looks worse than a 1080p video taken with a 2 year old panasonic tm700. Washed out color, lack of details and fuzzy edge are characteristic of this camera. With a big sensor, one may expect better low light performance. Guess again, low light performance is much worse than a 10 year old Sony DV camera. Technology not ready for prime time yet. May be in a few years.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/839193-REG/JVC_GY_HMQ10U_GY_HMQ10_4K_Compact_Handheld.html
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Old 02-23-2013, 09:39 PM - Thread Starter
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It's very misleading using the worse review you can find on B&H don't you think? Still, this is all irrelevant anyway since in 2015, 4K electronics will be better and prices will go down by a lot.
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Old 02-24-2013, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by img eL View Post

You think the new HDMI spec will need a hardware revision or just a simple firmware, software revision?

Almost certainly a hardware solution. frown.gif
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Old 02-24-2013, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jogiba View Post

JVC GY-HMQ10 4K Compact Handheld Camcorder review by verified buyer:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/839193-REG/JVC_GY_HMQ10U_GY_HMQ10_4K_Compact_Handheld.html

Oh c'mon Jogiba, you can find lousy reviews for virtually any product, no matter how good it is. All you're doing is cherry picking the worst to make your point.

It's like selectively mentioning a $28,000 camera as a means of shooting 4K when there's one available for less than 25% of that.

You don't want to get in to 4K now, we get that.
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Old 02-24-2013, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

It's very misleading using the worse review you can find on B&H don't you think? Still, this is all irrelevant anyway since in 2015, 4K electronics will be better and prices will go down by a lot.
I agree in 2015 4K prices will be more in a price range that people could afford but not in 2013 so I don't see why all the fuss over 4K today at prices that don't make sense. The JVC 4K camcorder is only $5,000 but what is the cost of a 4K TV to watch it on ?
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Old 02-24-2013, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Oh c'mon Jogiba, you can find lousy reviews for virtually any product, no matter how good it is. All you're doing is cherry picking the worst to make your point.

It's like selectively mentioning a $28,000 camera as a means of shooting 4K when there's one available for less than 25% of that.

You don't want to get in to 4K now, we get that.
I guess you missed my post of the $12,000 Canon EOS-1D C and that JVC 4K camcorder for $5,000 records to four SDXC cards and uses four HDMI outputs . So how many people here have the JVC 4K camcorder and 4K TV with four HDMI inputs ?
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Old 02-24-2013, 08:19 AM
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While we wait for low priced Chinese brands 4K/UHD to be launched to stores, we can drool a little how PC gaming (upscaled) and Photoshop editing works on a 4K 55" Toshiba with today's available tech.

Quick Look: DirectX 11 Gaming in 4K on Windows 8

Also linked in the first blog link;
4K Photo Editing on Windows 8 using Adobe Photoshop CS6

Extreme 4K Multi-Mon Video Editing on Windows 8
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Old 02-27-2013, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jogiba View Post

I guess you missed my post of the $12,000 Canon EOS-1D C and that JVC 4K camcorder for $5,000 records to four SDXC cards and uses four HDMI outputs . So how many people here have the JVC 4K camcorder and 4K TV with four HDMI inputs ?

My primary objection to your post was cherry picking one unhappy owner rather than giving a far & balanced view of the product. The cost issue was secondary.

I happen to agree with you about the 4 HDMI outs and the obvious issue that arises with that approach.
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