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post #1 of 46 Old 02-24-2013, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys, I haven't done much video capturing other than on my iphone 4.

I want to start making a Youtube channel for profit later and I am looking for a good camcorder to start out with.


Youtube brings down the quality of the video and most people only view in 240p or 360p, but it supports up to 1080p HD.


Will having a more expensive camera make the quality better on a low 240 or 360p, or will that just make the 720/1080 more clear and better quality? If that is the case, I could just use my Iphone with external mic/recorder.


My budget for a camera is around 400 dollars, and I can also afford the external mic and such. This is ONLY for Youtube and related sites, I will not make DVDs. I only want to pay for a nicer personal camera (I know its nothing compared to professional one, but I'm a starving student haa), if it will truly help the quality of the video at lower resolutions as well. Let's assume I have good lighting for this.

I was looking at this one mainly:

Sony HDR CX260V Handycam
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-HDR-CX260V-Definition-Handycam-Camcorder/dp/B006K5507M/ref=sr_1_188?s=photo&ie=UTF8&qid=1361348012&sr=1-188

Also saw something like this, but no external mic, would have to use recorder, audio is just as important.

Canon Powershot SX50
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009B0MZ1M/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B009B0MZ1M&linkCode=as2&tag=sxcameras-20




-Iphone 4 seems to have pretty bad quality to me, of course I was outside in the shade when I filmed, but the video didn't turn out that great... it goes up to 720p HD on youtube. I saw a comparison between this and flip ultrahd, and it was more clear than the flip, however, the flip has more fps or something, so movement is better on that.



So can you guys recommend a perfect camera for me (maybe a range of prices) if you know? Just for youtube, no real movies, but I want a very clear picture. Also, is an external lapel microphone good for audio, or would I be better off with an expensive audio recorder?


Thanks for your help! I'm new to all of this, if someone has time to explain the reasons.
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post #2 of 46 Old 02-24-2013, 04:13 PM
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You could get the Pentax K-01 with 40mm F2.8 XS lens for under $400 or about $300 for body only. It is an APS-C mirrorless with K-mount so there are many new and used lenses that would work with it. It has full manual control of aperture, shutter speed and ISO in video mode along with input for external mic. Here is a short film shot with it along with the making of video.





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post #3 of 46 Old 02-24-2013, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Wow, I really like the audio, do you know what microphone they used? Is it possible to duplicate this with a lapel microphone or audio recorder?

Also, in the first video it was perfect quality for 360p, but the second one was more like my iphone, not so clear. How much of this is the camera and how much is software like sony vegas or adobe premier or something? Is there a good guide to editing, converting etc. video to make it like that?

Thanks a lot for posting.


Does anyone have another option for just video? What I am trying to say is that I have absolutely no need for good photographs, will I get more bang for my buck if I get something designed more solely for video, like a camcorder, or is compact better at this price range?
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post #4 of 46 Old 02-24-2013, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Do most compact cameras have auto focus? If I have somebody film someone running away or something, will I need to focus the camera as they run, or is there a setting to do that automatically? I don't mind learning how to operate it, but there might be different people operating the camera.
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post #5 of 46 Old 02-24-2013, 06:54 PM
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According to the links, the Pentax can auto-focus, but it can't continually autofocus...meaning it will focus on the subject for you at a fixed point, but as the subject may change it won't adjust. Many present-day camcorders have continuous or instant autofocus that will lock on to a subject as it moves at different distances.

I think jogiba made a fine suggestion for a camera. Keep in mind that the behind-the-scenes showed those people are professional filmmakers, used a lot of extra equipment and expertise to produce that short film with the Pentax. There was always either a tripod, rack/follow-focus, etc. to assist with the shot.

Consider a benefit of camcorders typically allow you to touch on the subject/screen to adjust focus and/or exposure. They would also be better for hand-held as stabilization is superior with camcorders. A camcorder would be easier/more user-friendly to use. If you want to learn more of a filmmaking experience from the beginning, the Pentax seems like a good choice, but there is more of a learning curve and time to setup the shot..

If you want to be able to do hand-held videos and quickly crank out YouTube content, without having to worry about the lighting, stabilization/tripod, etc. in a more professional manner, a camcorder would be simpler...but the image quality from the Pentax would be superior as it has a larger sensor and the ability to blur the background/giving it a more professional look. (Provided you know how to achieve that in a filmmaker's context.)
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post #6 of 46 Old 02-24-2013, 09:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I think I want that Pentax, what about the lens? I have never bought a lens before, what is a good starting lens size? Is the 40mm that is optional with it pretty standard, a good all around lens, or should I get a better one? Like this: http://www.amazon.com/Pentax-18-55mm-3-5-5-6-Samsung-Digital/dp/B00061J2BQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=photo&ie=UTF8&qid=1361770302&sr=1-1
or http://www.amazon.com/18-55mm-3-5-5-6-Weather-Resistant-Pentax/dp/B002BSGUZ8/ref=pd_sim_p_6
http://www.amazon.com/Sigma-30mm-F2-8-Sony-330965/dp/B0078ZYBP0/ref=pd_sim_p_46
(if it even fits)


I want a lens that can get a someone good size for shooting indoors not too wide, just to film me talking.
I also plan on doing more outdoors, and I like wider viewing angles for action. What is the approximate size lens, will the 40mm handle this? Do you guys have any links to compare them on video?



-Thanks guys
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post #7 of 46 Old 02-25-2013, 12:09 AM
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gtxrla, two years ago I had the same objective as you do - trying to find a camera and/or movie editing program that would enable me produce sharp and clear looking videos on Youtube when viewed at 360p. Especially outdoors.

Two years later I am still searching because the people who know the answers to those questions have not been willing to explain in detail that others can copy. Examples: These guys know the answers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcqdXS_FG54 but they have never been willing to tell their audience what camera and movie editing program and movie export settings they use to produce their videos which look very good when viewed at only 360p
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post #8 of 46 Old 02-25-2013, 12:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow... I'm sure someone knows. I'll post here if I can find out how.
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post #9 of 46 Old 02-25-2013, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtxrla View Post

Do most compact cameras have auto focus? If I have somebody film someone running away or something, will I need to focus the camera as they run, or is there a setting to do that automatically? I don't mind learning how to operate it, but there might be different people operating the camera.
If you want continuous auto focus of people running away etc you will need a small sensor camera since most people using DSLR APS-C size sensors for video use them in manual focus mode because of the more shallow DOF. The Panasonic LUMIX DMC-LX7 with F1.4-2.3 Leica DC vario SUMMILUX 24mm Wide Angle to 90mm in 35mm equiv, 1080p60 might be a better choice in the $400 range.



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post #10 of 46 Old 02-25-2013, 03:44 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm pretty sure I will go with the Pentax for my first camera, I will save up a few thousand after that if I ever want to upgrade. Which lens would be the best lens for all purpose to start with? mainly talking with shoulder/heads and a few more for sports how-to video style, that will cover just over my entire body. Like a 10 foot diameter range or so... if that makes any sense. The best starting lens for around 100-180 dollars like the ones i posted that fit the k-01.

thanks
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post #11 of 46 Old 02-25-2013, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtxrla View Post

I'm pretty sure I will go with the Pentax for my first camera, I will save up a few thousand after that if I ever want to upgrade. Which lens would be the best lens for all purpose to start with? mainly talking with shoulder/heads and a few more for sports how-to video style, that will cover just over my entire body. Like a 10 foot diameter range or so... if that makes any sense. The best starting lens for around 100-180 dollars like the ones i posted that fit the k-01.

thanks
B&H has the Pentax K-01 Digital Camera With 18-55mm & 50-200mm Lenses (Black) for $469 w/free shipping.


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post #12 of 46 Old 02-25-2013, 06:44 PM
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The question "best camcorder for YouTube" does not make much sense. There is nothing different about YouTube from "regular" TV (for me YouTube and Netflix are more regular than "regular" TV). The only peculiarity is that YouTube maxes out at 30 fps average (peak fps can be higher) and that it is progressive-scan only.

1) if you get interlaced camcorder you have to deinterlace correctly
2) if you shoot with higher rate than 30fps you will likely see less "live" and more "filmic" motion.
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post #13 of 46 Old 03-01-2013, 06:45 AM
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A camera that will not auto focus on the fly is a disaster. Being new to this, a quality camcorder with great auto settings is a must. 1080p can easily be edited to 720p and you can crop 1080p to 720p to correct free hand shaking as well. And of course, youtube will take 1080p and convert it to all lower formats. Most all internet video is 30p so 60p or higher frame rate is only useful for creating slow motion videos.

I have the Canon HF M41 and Lumix DMC FZ200.

The current Canon is the M500 series with a sale prices as low as $299 leaving room for accessories like external mic and filters. The Canon has the best low light sensor and it has the same sensor used in their $6k professional camcorders.

The Lumix DMC FZ200 is nothing short of amazing. For me, I wanted a great point and shoot to replace me dead Canon G9 but I also wanted special features that my M41 could not do. Wide angle and 24x zoom(400mm equivalent) combined with High Speed Recording was an absolute must have. All these features combined with a continuous F2.8 even at full zoom sealed the deal for me. It's a little more pricey at just over $500 but it is worth every penny.

Changing lenses is a PIA. Bulky attachments get annoying. Stick to the KISS method and you will save yourself many headaches.
Keep in mind, Youtube reduces a 24Mbps file to about 5-7Mbps. So getting the correct frame and having quality sound become much more important to creating a great video for the internet. Most all of this can be done in editing. However, as an example one of my 4 minute videos consisted of 3 hours to shooting and 6 hours to editing. Get the picture. I have so much raw footage, I'll never get it all done.

Their are many great options out there just pick the one best for you. Good luck in your search.
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post #14 of 46 Old 03-01-2013, 07:05 AM
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The Panasonic FZ200 has a zoom range of 25mm-600mm, all at f2.8. A zoom lens with that aperture and range for a full-frame DSLR would cost over $10,000 (if it existed) and require a tripod. One can shoot handheld with the FZ200 at even 600mm becasue of the OIS.
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post #15 of 46 Old 03-01-2013, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

The Panasonic FZ200 has a zoom range of 25mm-600mm, all at f2.8. A zoom lens with that aperture and range for a full-frame DSLR would cost over $10,000 (if it existed) and require a tripod. One can shoot handheld with the FZ200 at even 600mm becasue of the OIS.
The Sigma 200-500mm f/2.8 cost $25,999 at B&H so a 25-600mm F2.8 full frame zoom lens would cost at least 10x that amount or over $250,000 and the 24-70mm F2.8L Canon lens is over $2,000 and no other FF F2.8 zoom starting at 24mm is longer than 70mm. BTW the 500mm F4 Sony lens is $12,998 at B&H.
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post #16 of 46 Old 03-01-2013, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jogiba View Post

The Sigma 200-500mm f/2.8 cost $25,999 at B&H so a 25-600mm F2.8 full frame zoom lens would cost at least 10x that amount or over $250,000 and the 24-70mm F2.8L Canon lens is over $2,000 and no other FF F2.8 zoom starting at 24mm is longer than 70mm. BTW the 500mm F4 Sony lens is $12,998 at B&H.

I was way off!
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post #17 of 46 Old 03-04-2013, 08:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Someone offered to trade me their 7d with 28-135 kit lens for my american fender strat I had on sale for a similar price.

I see lots of 7d above everything on sale here in LA, are there any fakes and how would I spot it? Anything else to look for? I have never used a DSLR before. I don't play the guitar anymore so I thought it was a good deal.
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post #18 of 46 Old 03-05-2013, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtxrla View Post

Someone offered to trade me their 7d with 28-135 kit lens for my american fender strat I had on sale for a similar price.

I see lots of 7d above everything on sale here in LA, are there any fakes and how would I spot it? Anything else to look for? I have never used a DSLR before. I don't play the guitar anymore so I thought it was a good deal.

Before worrying about fakes, maybe you should consider the limitations of the real 7D:

1. Clips are limited to 12 minutes.

2. No external mic input and the on-camera mic is mono.

I am not sure whether autofocus works or zoom works while shooting.

You started with a budget of $400; this is a $1400 camera. For that money, or the used-camera equivalent, you can do much better for video.
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post #19 of 46 Old 03-05-2013, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
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The video seems pretty good on youtube, I will be making videos that are all less than 12 minutes, usually only 4-5 minutes long. I will buy an h4n

-I got an Audio-Technica PRO 70 condenser mic on ebay for 20 bucks, it takes phantom but also has battery, if I buy an h1, and get a xlr to 3.5 will that work with the battery, or would I still need phantom? Also, does an h4n work good with 2 phantom powered mics plugged in? Like a lavalier and shotgun?
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post #20 of 46 Old 03-05-2013, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by gtxrla View Post

The video seems pretty good on youtube, I will be making videos that are all less than 12 minutes, usually only 4-5 minutes long. I will buy an h4n

-I got an Audio-Technica PRO 70 condenser mic on ebay for 20 bucks, it takes phantom but also has battery, if I buy an h1, and get a xlr to 3.5 will that work with the battery, or would I still need phantom? Also, does an h4n work good with 2 phantom powered mics plugged in? Like a lavalier and shotgun?

Lots of videos look good on Youtube, which you claim "most people only view in 240p or 360p". You do not have to spend $1400 for that.

To plug in two different mics into the H4N, which you can do and it will supply phantom power to each, you would have to set the volume for each independently. Is that possible on the H4N? You will then have to blend the two stereo tracks into one mono track. In an editor you can also adjust levels independently from the two tracks if they are off, but you still need to set levels seperately on the device so as to avoid clipping or, if too low, noise. You can also mixdown the two stereo tracks to mono on the recorder, but that will assume the two mics are the same. No way you could use automatic gain with two different mics also.
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post #21 of 46 Old 03-05-2013, 03:39 PM - Thread Starter
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So you don't think I should trade for it? It is hard for me to sell the guitar, which I never play. Will the 7d not make 240/360p more clear video, I'm not sure how it works, does it only make the high resolution better? I'm going to be leaving America soon, so I need to get rid of my big stuff anyways... I will buy a cheap glidecam like device and tripod also to use with the dslr.
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post #22 of 46 Old 03-05-2013, 04:05 PM
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None of the big DSLR camers (except the GH2/GH3) shoot video as sharp or as artifact free as much cheaper (in this case) camcorders. Some like the colors better. If that is the best you can do for your guitar, then it is certainly not a bad purchase (I do not know what your guitar is worth, though).
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post #23 of 46 Old 03-05-2013, 04:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, thanks, the guitar could probably go for 1100-1200 for at a better time, but right now I could probably only get 850-900 cash, and on craigslist, 7d go for about the same, and I will also be getting the kit lens.

What camcorders where you talking about? like the flip or sony cx260v? I also saw another for sale around 1300, canon xh a1, which seems pretty cool if I could sell my guitar for cash. It's big though.
I'd like to be able to get shallow depth of field, idk if that is possible with cameras like sony cx260v.
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post #24 of 46 Old 03-05-2013, 05:46 PM
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If you do want shallow dof and your videos are mostly interviews (not sports action or lots of people moving around or landscapes), then the DSLR will do fine. And it seems like a fair trade.
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post #25 of 46 Old 03-06-2013, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtxrla View Post

Ok, thanks, the guitar could probably go for 1100-1200 for at a better time, but right now I could probably only get 850-900 cash, and on craigslist, 7d go for about the same, and I will also be getting the kit lens.

What camcorders where you talking about? like the flip or sony cx260v? I also saw another for sale around 1300, canon xh a1, which seems pretty cool if I could sell my guitar for cash. It's big though.
I'd like to be able to get shallow depth of field, idk if that is possible with cameras like sony cx260v.

If you can get 800 or 900 for your guitar, it would be better to get something like a brand new Canon T3i for $579 (includes card and kit lens):
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/753762-REG/Canon_5169B003_EOS_Rebel_T3i_Digital.html

If you want nice images with a lot of background blur, the Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II is on sale for $94:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/12142-GREY/Canon_2514A002_Normal_EF_50mm_f_1_8.html

Example T3i + EF 50mm f/1.8 II:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViM6OuRrbt4

You would still have money for a tripod, extra battery, etc. This way you can get everything brand new with warranties.

If you're not familiar with cameras to begin with, you may be taking a chance on a used camera as problems you wouldn't know what to look for could eventually show up. The image isn't going to be that much different with the T3i.
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post #26 of 46 Old 03-06-2013, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok cool, actually someone just big 1000 for my guitar so thats around 850 dollars I guess I will just go with that. I'll know later today if it goes good then I'll be able to buy a nicer camera.
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post #27 of 46 Old 03-07-2013, 12:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Alright, so I made about 900 dollars on my guitar, so I can afford a better camera now... but it doesn't need to be much more expensive if I don't need.

I want good depth of field and very clear. I will be using glidecam like device (does that lessen the jello effect?)

Are there any other recommendations now that I have more to spend? Cheaper is still better, but if I need more expensive to shoot very clear at 360p, then I will.


---t2i-$550 (kit lens is only 3.5 aperture.. is that enough for indoors?)

---Pentax k-01-$400 very good on paper.. but unprofessional videos look very bad on youtube with this so I'm no so sure....

---Gh2 $1000 used (with kit) -here it says pentax is better... but the youtube videos of this look sweet... though spending all 1000 is a little frightening for my first camera and no job.
http://snapsort.com/compare/Panasonic_Lumix_DMC-GH2-vs-Pentax-K-01-with-40mm-f-2.8-lens

---XH A1- $1300 used (this thing is huge though... that is turn-off, but it also saves me 200-300 for recorder/pre amp)







I still need to sell my ducati, if I do I will spend 3000 on a prosumer video camera. Wanna trade haa?
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post #28 of 46 Old 03-07-2013, 12:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Doesn't have to be one I mentioned, those just looked good to me on paper. I've never had anything better than a point and shoot before...
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post #29 of 46 Old 03-07-2013, 01:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok sorry, I guess what I was trying to say before also was that what is the best VALUE? I don't care about all the extra buttons and functions, just the best in terms of video/hardware.

So, like on a computer, I want the computer with more ram, I don't care if it has nice vaio software, or fingerpad touch or anything. I just want the best video without any other extras I can do that post if I ever need.
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post #30 of 46 Old 03-07-2013, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtxrla View Post

Doesn't have to be one I mentioned, those just looked good to me on paper. I've never had anything better than a point and shoot before...

You have been getting good advice, but seem to want to ignore it because you've watched something you liked on YouTube. When you watch YouTube videos that are impressive, it's usually the videographer's skills, not the camera's technical abilities or price. The videographer's skills have to include how to shoot good video as well as how to prepare the footage for YouTube.

My suggestion to you is to re-read the answers you've been getting. If you don't like a recommendation, say why. (ie, "I don't like the LX7 because.........") Frequently, a person new to this forum has preconceived ideas of what he or she and the camera should look like in his hands while he is operating it. That confuses the people that try to answer the question of what device will get you the best value and quality footage.

Good luck with making a profitable channel on YouTube! It is a crowded market with the appearance of easy entry!

Bill
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