Thinking of buying a Canon HF M500, good idea or not.. ? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 02-27-2013, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Fry's has the Canon HF M500 on sale for $299. Looking at various reviews and such, it seems to be a great "bang for the buck" type camcorder. Is there anything else in the $300 range that would be a better idea ?


This cam would mostly be used as an upgrade over my kids Bloggie. My son likes making little movies with his brother and cousins / friends. I'd also use it for my kids soccer games and stuff like that. The bloggie is ok, for just basic, quick type videos, but we wanted to step up the quality and make things look a little more "movie" like, if you know what I mean.
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post #2 of 24 Old 02-27-2013, 11:33 AM
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It is probably a good buy, but many think a camera/camcorder should be able to record 1080p60. I don't own a Canon M500, but I think they don't do that.

Bill
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post #3 of 24 Old 02-27-2013, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsprague View Post

It is probably a good buy, but many think a camera/camcorder should be able to record 1080p60. I don't own a Canon M500, but I think they don't do that.

Bill

why is 1080p60 such a big deal ?

What I mean is, if I don't have 1080p60, what I'm I losing out on ?

Is there anything in the $300 ish range that can do it, which also happens to be a good camera ?
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post #4 of 24 Old 02-27-2013, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

why is 1080p60 such a big deal ?

What I mean is, if I don't have 1080p60, what I'm I losing out on ?

Is there anything in the $300 ish range that can do it, which also happens to be a good camera ?
I like my pocket size Panasonic Lumix ZS20 20x compact superzoom that has 1080p60 and the kids like watching their 60fps videos in slo-motion mode with audio on the PS3. It sells for under $250.







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post #5 of 24 Old 02-27-2013, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jogiba View Post

I like my pocket size Panasonic Lumix ZS20 20x compact superzoom that has 1080p60 and the kids like watching their 60fps videos in slo-motion mode with audio on the PS3. It sells for under $250.

Can that really compete with a Canon HF M500 ? I mean, not that the Canon is super high-end or anything, I know it's more of an entry level camcorder, but I've heard that the M500 has the same sensor as some much higher priced Canons.
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post #6 of 24 Old 02-27-2013, 04:58 PM
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If you don't care if it has 1080p60 the Canon HF M500 sells for $339 at B&H and Amazon with good reviews so you should be happy with it.
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post #7 of 24 Old 02-27-2013, 05:58 PM
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Anthony,

Going with the HF M500 would be just fine, and that is a super price for the great low light sensor it utilizes.

1080p60 would be nice for certain times, yet certainly not a deal breaker.

One thing I don't care for on the cam is the battery sticking out in the back past the body of the camera.


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post #8 of 24 Old 02-27-2013, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post



This cam would mostly be used as an upgrade over my kids Bloggie. My son likes making little movies with his brother and cousins / friends. I'd also use it for my kids soccer games and stuff like that. The bloggie is ok, for just basic, quick type videos, but we wanted to step up the quality and make things look a little more "movie" like, if you know what I mean.

Maybe he and his family and firends would like a cam that has a "built-in projector" so they can all watch the videos they make together quite easily?

Amazon and Best Buy both have the Sony HDR-PJ200 High Definition Handycam 5.3 MP Camcorder with 25x Optical Zoom and Built-in Projector (Black) (2012 Model) on sale for $249.99.

Either the Canon or Sony would be a good upgrade from the Bloggie.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B006K550J0/
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Sony+-+HDR-PJ200+HD+Flash+Memory+Camcorder+-+Black/4919564.p?id=1218577513005#tab=overview

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post #9 of 24 Old 02-27-2013, 11:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Blasst View Post


1080p60 would be nice for certain times, yet certainly not a deal breaker.

can you elaborate on what I'm missing by not having 1080p60 ?
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post #10 of 24 Old 02-28-2013, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

can you elaborate on what I'm missing by not having 1080p60 ?
With 1080p60 you could play the videos in slo-motion on some devices like the PS3 with audio and any video with fast action will look better like video games @60fps.
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post #11 of 24 Old 02-28-2013, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 View Post

can you elaborate on what I'm missing by not having 1080p60 ?
Big files with lots of clarity, especially were rapid motion is involved. Some actually don't like it because it is less "movie like".
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post #12 of 24 Old 02-28-2013, 09:00 AM
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And you say you want to shoot sports (soccer): well, 60 fps progressive is ideal for sports, which has lots of motion. Indeed, ESPN broadcasts at 72060 - 60 fps progressive (as well as ABC). They chose the higher frame rate because it is better for action (other networks use 108060i - interlaced). 108060p is even better and that is what is available on all Sony and Panasonic camcorders and many Sony and Panasonic cameras. Canon is the outlier (laggard).
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post #13 of 24 Old 02-28-2013, 07:55 PM
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@Anthony1, $299 is a steal. I bought the HF M41 two years ago for $850 and I love the video it shoots. The canon has the same sensor as the $8k camcorders that have three sensors. This camcorder is absolutely awesome in low light. Outdoors with lots of light the clarity is great but indoors it really shines.
Here are two examples of the Canon, indoors on a rainy day and an outdoor track meet with some slow motion. Last, an indoor track meet shot with the Lumix DMC-FZ200 @ 120fps/720p. Notice the per frame movement difference between the 2nd and 3rd video during the slow motion parts. This demonstrates the actual difference between 30fps versus 60fps or 120fps. In the 3rd video it starts at normal speed the accelerates to 60fps for about 2 seconds when the vaulter is between the yellow cone and the photographer with the green shirt. Then it accelerates to 120fps. Also, its shot from a distance with 20x zoom at F2.8 to shutter speed. the canon can't do either.

1080@30p gives more clarity than 1080@60p as the bit rate is higher per frame. 60p does give smoother action video for creating slow motion. However, almost all current standards for end use especially uploading video to the internet is 30p. what this means is that when you upload a normal speed video to youtube, half of the frames shot with a 60p camcorder are not used.

With a budget of $300, the low light capabilities alone makes the M500 a great value.

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post #14 of 24 Old 03-01-2013, 12:37 AM
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Of the 4 cams and cameras i have only 1 has 50P [60P equivalent],i dont use it on that camera the pq is no better,no more resolution,more of a pain to edit and not BD compatable,Canon make great cams and always have very good colour.
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post #15 of 24 Old 03-01-2013, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by flintyplus View Post

Of the 4 cams and cameras i have only 1 has 50P [60P equivalent],i dont use it on that camera the pq is no better,no more resolution,more of a pain to edit and not BD compatable,Canon make great cams and always have very good colour.
You are missing out. 50p is the single best frame rate across all rates from 24 to 60. Too bad that 50 Hz stuff is not always playable on U.S. -sold devices.
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Originally Posted by jogiba 
With 1080p60 you could play the videos in slo-motion on some devices like the PS3 with audio and any video with fast action will look better like video games @60fps.
There is absolutely nothing precluding from getting the same slo-mo from traditional interlaced video. People are so excited about slo-mo usage of 60p that they forget that the same can be done with interlaced. Same 60 images per second. Resolution is, obviously, lower.
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post #16 of 24 Old 03-01-2013, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Update to this thread. I was dead set on getting the Canon M500 at Fry's, but now Fry's has the Panasonic HC-V700MK for $349.99, only 50 bucks more than the M500. Fry's normal price on the HC-V700MK is $600, but they are $250 off right now.


Should I still stick with Canon or... ?
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post #17 of 24 Old 03-01-2013, 10:34 AM
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This is from camcorderinfo.com:

"The Panasonic HC-V700M is one of our favorite camcorders of the year. It has a lot of tricks hidden in its long menu system, offers excellent performance, and comes with a very reasonable price tag. In bright light, this camcorder nearly matched the performance of the Panasonic HC-X900M, which is our runner-up for camcorder of the year. In low light, the V700M wasn’t quite as good, but it was still excellent for a mid-range model. Panasonic went with a new sensor this year and the results paid off, making this the best camcorder available for less than 800 bucks. [emphasis mine]


The Canon HF M52 did well in our tests and comes with adequate video features, but, like we saw from many models this year, the HF M52 simply didn’t improve much over its predecessor. Canon’s one big new feature, built-in WiFi, was a bust, and the rest of the camcorder’s improvements weren’t anything too special. Still, the HF M52 is a strong mid-range camcorder that does capture awesome video images, and its overall performance came extremely close to matching that of the Panasonic HC-V700M."

Link: http://www.camcorderinfo.com/Features/2012-CamcorderInfo-Best-of-Year-Awards.htm

You decide (and welcome to the world of 108060p).
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post #18 of 24 Old 03-01-2013, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

This is from camcorderinfo.com:

"The Panasonic HC-V700M is one of our favorite camcorders of the year. It has a lot of tricks hidden in its long menu system, offers excellent performance, and comes with a very reasonable price tag. In bright light, this camcorder nearly matched the performance of the Panasonic HC-X900M, which is our runner-up for camcorder of the year. In low light, the V700M wasn’t quite as good, but it was still excellent for a mid-range model. Panasonic went with a new sensor this year and the results paid off, making this the best camcorder available for less than 800 bucks. [emphasis mine]


The Canon HF M52 did well in our tests and comes with adequate video features, but, like we saw from many models this year, the HF M52 simply didn’t improve much over its predecessor. Canon’s one big new feature, built-in WiFi, was a bust, and the rest of the camcorder’s improvements weren’t anything too special. Still, the HF M52 is a strong mid-range camcorder that does capture awesome video images, and its overall performance came extremely close to matching that of the Panasonic HC-V700M."

Link: http://www.camcorderinfo.com/Features/2012-CamcorderInfo-Best-of-Year-Awards.htm

You decide (and welcome to the world of 108060p).


So, I'm guessing that the Canon is still better in low light, but that the Panny is better overall ? Hmm, this makes it a tough decision, because the kids want to make these little home movies, and they often want to shoot indoor scenes.
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post #19 of 24 Old 03-01-2013, 11:47 AM
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post #20 of 24 Old 03-01-2013, 12:20 PM
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Indoors is not necessarly low-light - it is lower light. Let's not get carried away - the Panasonic camcorders are fine for indoors shooting, for shooting in gymnasiums. If your house results in noisy videos, you need more lighting (it's better for kids).

And the Panasonic is better, according to camcorderinfo, on low-light noise and low-light color. Worse on low-light "sensitivity."
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post #21 of 24 Old 03-01-2013, 12:42 PM
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One is brighter but noisier, another is darker but cleaner. They may be pretty much the same if you reduce gain on the one or add gain on another.

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post #22 of 24 Old 03-01-2013, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

You are missing out. 50p is the single best frame rate across all rates from 24 to 60. Too bad that 50 Hz stuff is not always playable on U.S. -sold devices.
There is absolutely nothing precluding from getting the same slo-mo from traditional interlaced video. People are so excited about slo-mo usage of 60p that they forget that the same can be done with interlaced. Same 60 images per second. Resolution is, obviously, lower.

Obviosly i have used and tested the 50P on my machine that has it,and tested on other camcorders,the fact my 24/25P Cams are vastly superior,i make blu rays so 50P is not important to me.
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post #23 of 24 Old 03-02-2013, 08:30 AM
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So, I'm guessing that the Canon is still better in low light, but that the Panny is better overall ? Hmm, this makes it a tough decision,..........
The only mistake you can make with these two is waiting so long the "deals" go away. You and the kids will do very well with either.
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post #24 of 24 Old 03-02-2013, 04:43 PM
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What would be a good wide angle lense for a camera like this?

I need it for shooting indoors family get-togethers.

Thanks.
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