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post #1 of 112 Old 03-19-2013, 02:43 PM - Thread Starter
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I have this on order and should receive it on Thursday. Anyone have one yet?
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post #2 of 112 Old 03-19-2013, 06:57 PM
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Where did you order it from? The usual places I check say it is pre-order only.
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post #3 of 112 Old 03-19-2013, 07:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Samys has it in stock. They told me it just came in today and I believe they have quite a few at this point Mark.

Edit: I just checked again and now I see it's on 'backorder'. I hope they were being straight with me. At any rate I got overnight service for Thursday delivery.

We shall see.
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post #4 of 112 Old 03-19-2013, 07:47 PM
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Do you have any of the TM300/SD600/TM700/SD800/TM900 family to compare?
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post #5 of 112 Old 03-19-2013, 09:12 PM
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yeah says backorder but they may have gotten a few or they may be full of BS.....ya never know. They should be hitting the shelves though.
I may wait another yr canon will have to do 6oP next year....they are catching hell for it already in all the reviews. Theres just something about there cameras I like better although I have the panny TM900
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post #6 of 112 Old 03-20-2013, 06:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

Do you have any of the TM300/SD600/TM700/SD800/TM900 family to compare?

Had the 900 but sold it awhile ago. Currently have the NEX VG30 and the Sony GW77.
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post #7 of 112 Old 03-20-2013, 08:31 AM
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Do you have a mission or project in mind that uses specific 920 features?
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post #8 of 112 Old 03-20-2013, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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I guess my 'mission' is to achieve the best PQ in a small package. I really like the VG30, but it's not small and not light. If the 920 can fill that void (I'm not overly enamored with the GW77), it will be great. I'm also hoping the low light has been improved from the 900 I used to have.

My first order of business is to see if I'm actually getting it tomorrow. I'm a bit concerned since the sales guy said they just gotten in quite a few and were sitting in the warehouse, not yet distributed to their stores. Now, literally hours later, they're on 'backorder'. confused.gif
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post #9 of 112 Old 03-20-2013, 07:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Delivery is indeed scheduled for tomorrow. So they did have the units in stock for a brief period.
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post #10 of 112 Old 03-22-2013, 11:53 AM
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Ken,

Did you read any reviews on this? I'm still shooting with my XA10 and have added a GW77 just to be able to quickly grab some highlight footage during basketball games. I saw a few clips on vimeo that are promising, but you never know...
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post #11 of 112 Old 03-22-2013, 09:55 PM
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Just read the review in camcorderinfo, low light performance seems to have improved quite a lot. I am considering to buy one to replace my old TM700.
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post #12 of 112 Old 03-23-2013, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Thus far I'm very favorably impressed with the X920. No, I didn't see any reviews on this ErLupo, but it's much better in low light than I recall my 700 being. It also seem better to me than my XA10 did in low light, with less noise.

Sharpness and detail is very impressive and, frankly, puts my much more expensive VG30 to shame. The VG30 has a contrastier picture, but I could see some saying the 920's picture is closer to reality. What's odd is that I find myself raising the color to +3 to get a more saturated look to the picture. At that level it's very nice, but I'm surprised the default level seems a bit low.

I'm also finding the flesh tones more pleasing on the 920 than my VG30. That's a bit of a surprise. Too bad this doesn't have an OLED VF. I miss that, but at least it does have a VF! wink.gif
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post #13 of 112 Old 03-23-2013, 03:07 PM
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I sort of noticed the same thing with my AC90. With no gain applied to either my SD600 (TM700 equivalent) and AC90 during low light shooting, the latter is much clearer and I also notice the factory settings are too neutral which is great for color grading but not everybody will color grade their images. Luckily I can choose other scene files very easily, do my own picture setting or color grade. I'm surprised that even though the X920 is more of a consumer camcorder than the AC90, Panasonic decided to make it too neutral as well. The ratio of people willing to eighter adjust the camera or color grade are less on the X920. Still, you might get even more vivid colors if you white balance rather than use auto besides just adding saturation. I'm not sure what you used.

One notable feature that the X920 has is "level shot function"
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The X920 Series is also equipped with Level Shot Function, in addition to the 5-Axis HYBRID O.I.S. +. Level Shot Function automatically detects and corrects the tilting of captured images. It records more horizontal images even if when shooting in an unstable or awkward position such as low-angle or high-angle shooting.
http://panasonic.net/avc/camcorder/hd/x920/

That seams like a very nice feature but I wonder if that effects the video quality. I would try shooting with "level shot" in both on and off just to see if the quality is effected by it. Meaning does the video quality get slightly worse with it on. Camcorderinfo mentions that the X920 has slightly less detail than the X900 in good light situations. I do wonder if that's because they had it on. In DVXuser, people are saying the AC90 is sharper than the more expensive AC130 and AC160 when shooting in good light situations and you'd think the X920 should be close to the sharpness of the AC90. Sometimes it's hard to trust what Camcorderinfo says.

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post #14 of 112 Old 03-23-2013, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Thus far I'm very favorably impressed with the X920...

Did they improve the audible fan noise?
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post #15 of 112 Old 03-23-2013, 03:38 PM
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Almost forgot, does it have 24p? Camcorderinfo says yes but it's not on Panasonic's sites.

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post #16 of 112 Old 03-23-2013, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xfws View Post

Did they improve the audible fan noise?
I bought a SDT750 instead of the 900 "back then". I have never heard the fan and the cameras are pretty similar - at least Panasonic said they were. I also remember reading that to get the fan noise you had to run the camera for long enough to get it hot, have the auto gain control on so that any and every noise would be recorded and be in a silent room so the auto gain would crank up. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the 900 ever had a fan noise problem in any real world filming conditions.
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post #17 of 112 Old 03-23-2013, 03:57 PM
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According to the camcorderinfo review, the X920M at 800x800 lpph is significantly less sharp than the X900M at 1000x950 lpph or even the three year old TM700 at 1000x900 lpph. Jeremy Stamas reports:
Quote:
With these new, beautiful image sensors, we expected to see some changes in the X920's performance. What we didn't expect was the X920's sharpness results would actually be lower than what we got from last year's X900. In our test, the camcorder measured horizontal and vertical sharpness levels of 800 lp/ph at MTF 50—both of which are slight drops compared to last year. Could it be that these new sensors are loaded with too many pixels? Yes. That's exactly what we think. Remember, full HD video is only around two megapixels, while the X920 has an effective pixel count of around 8.5 megapixels. That means the camcorder is downsizing its image very aggressively, squeezing a huge amount of information into a much smaller video package.

This isn't to say the X920's sharpness performance is horrid. It's actually very good, even compared to other flagship camcorders. But the video would possibly look even better if the megapixel count weren't so darn high. Real-world images looked great, but looking closely at our test footage revealed problems with moire, oversharpening, and interference.
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/panasonic-hc-x920-camcorder-review-2/science-page
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post #18 of 112 Old 03-23-2013, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsprague View Post

I bought a SDT750 instead of the 900 "back then". I have never heard the fan and the cameras are pretty similar - at least Panasonic said they were. I also remember reading that to get the fan noise you had to run the camera for long enough to get it hot, have the auto gain control on so that any and every noise would be recorded and be in a silent room so the auto gain would crank up. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the 900 ever had a fan noise problem in any real world filming conditions.

I bought the 900 a couple years ago and returned it because the fan noise was all over the audio track, including outside footage.

I would have kept it, otherwise.
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post #19 of 112 Old 03-23-2013, 04:11 PM
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It's very unfortunate that Camcorderinfo is unknowingly being misleading when it comes to the specs. Here's the specs on Panasonic's sites for the video portion.
Quote:
8.49 megapixels (2.83 megapixels x 3) [16:9]
http://panasonic.net/avc/camcorder/hd/x920/specifications.html
In other words, 2.83 times 3 chips equals 8.49 total MP for the video. They make it seam like the video portion is 8.49 per chip when that's wrong.

With that said, we obviously need more people to comment on detail quality and just in case they are correct, people should see if the level shot function has something to do with it. If it does and they had it on, Camcorderinfo should do the resolution tests over again. Again, we'll need testing done from other people as well besides just them. Also, resolution tests will give you different numbers depending on the Aperture used.

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post #20 of 112 Old 03-23-2013, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xfws View Post

I bought the 900 a couple years ago and returned it because the fan noise was all over the audio track, including outside footage.

I would have kept it, otherwise.
I'm sorry that happened and glad you got your money back.
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post #21 of 112 Old 03-23-2013, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

I sort of noticed the same thing with my AC90. With no gain applied to either my SD600 (TM700 equivalent) and AC90 during low light shooting, the latter is much clearer and I also notice the factory settings are too neutral which is great for color grading but not everybody will color grade their images. Luckily I can choose other scene files very easily, do my own picture setting or color grade. I'm surprised that even though the X920 is more of a consumer camcorder than the AC90, Panasonic decided to make it too neutral as well. The ratio of people willing to eighter adjust the camera or color grade are less on the X920. Still, you might get even more vivid colors if you white balance rather than use auto besides just adding saturation. I'm not sure what you used.

One notable feature that the X920 has is "level shot function"
http://panasonic.net/avc/camcorder/hd/x920/

That seams like a very nice feature but I wonder if that effects the video quality. I would try shooting with "level shot" in both on and off just to see if the quality is effected by it. Meaning does the video quality get slightly worse with it on. Camcorderinfo mentions that the X920 has slightly less detail than the X900 in good light situations. I do wonder if that's because they had it on. In DVXuser, people are saying the AC90 is sharper than the more expensive AC130 and AC160 when shooting in good light situations and you'd think the X920 should be close to the sharpness of the AC90. Sometimes it's hard to trust what Camcorderinfo says.

Some good thoughts there Paulo. Yes, I did try MWB as well as Auto & Outdoor for comparison sake. Indoors, MWB gave me a better overall color balance (as you'd expect), but outdoors it was pretty neutral either way. The best thing I found was to raise the color level to +3.

It's strange, because I've read that the 920 is actually more saturated at default than the 900 was. The color charts at CamcorderInfo tend to confirm that. I never had the 900, so of course I wouldn't notice a slight drop in sharpness. Coming from the VG30, the picture looks quite a bit sharper. What the VG30 can do is make a slightly washed out scene a bit more alive by adding more contrast. The X920 seems more neutral and hence more accurate.

In the IA+ mode which I tried briefly for fun, I noticed you can adjust the picture warmer or cooler and yet this adjustment doesn't appear available in full manual mode. I found that a bit odd. Of course you do have access to the picture adjustments (color level, brightness, sharpness) in manual mode as well as the typical iris, shutter speed etc.

I did try the level shot function and it does work. I didn't do a critical A/B to determine if it impacts PQ at all, but at least casually, it didn't seem to. I'll take a closer look tomorrow. Likewise, the advanced stabilization works very nicely, but I didn't do a critical A/B on that either to see how or if it affects PQ.
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post #22 of 112 Old 03-23-2013, 08:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bsprague View Post

I'm sorry that happened and glad you got your money back.

I've heard no fan noise nor have I heard the other noise I had heard on my 700, a low level beeping...at least I think it was the 700 (I've had so many of these cams I've lost track smile.gif)

I did have very low level fan noise on my 700, but I could only hear it in a very quiet room. That aspect never bothered me.
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post #23 of 112 Old 03-23-2013, 08:38 PM
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It was the TM900 that you had a beeping problem with (No pun intended).

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post #24 of 112 Old 03-24-2013, 07:45 AM - Thread Starter
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You are right. How soon they (I) forget. So many cams, nuts.
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post #25 of 112 Old 03-24-2013, 03:14 PM
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notice amazon has a couple listed from another company for $999
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post #26 of 112 Old 03-26-2013, 03:24 PM
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Just received my x920 and pretty impressed so far. However stupid problem which must have a simple answer. When I have the camera in Auto Mode - Zoom ring works as expected. However when I use the Manual switch on the front the ring goes to focus, iris, colour balance etc again as expected but I can't get back to use the manual zoom ring without switching to "Auto" again. What am I missing? Going crazy trying to find the relevant operation. Thanks.mad.gif
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post #27 of 112 Old 03-26-2013, 03:37 PM
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Further to the above it seems I can't have manual focus set and manual zoom. I have to go to auto focus to get manual zoom back. Correct?
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post #28 of 112 Old 03-27-2013, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xfws View Post

Did they improve the audible fan noise?

I've heard no fan noise at all and no beeping.

I continue to be very impressed with this little guy. It seems to me the color is much better than the last Panny I had. Colors are really very close to being spot on and, to my pleasure (and chagrin) better than my VG30! Here's a much larger and much more expensive camera and yet the little 950 surpasses the color of the VG30.

What I've been using is a +3-+4 color level setting. At that level I'm getting saturation levels I would consider normal and accurate. I'm just surprised how unsaturated the unit is at default levels. Very odd.

The detail is also better than my VG30 as is the exposure. The Panny tends to have a somewhat reduced luminance level (that I've further reduced by setting exposure to -2), but will generally not overexpose brighter areas of the picture. So it's a different gamma setting. My VG30 displays a brighter image with more contrast, but tends to overexpose highlights much more quickly than the 950. I prefer the 950's method of exposure.

So now I'm wondering, aside from the DOF provided by my VG30, why am I keeping it?
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post #29 of 112 Old 03-27-2013, 04:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post

Almost forgot, does it have 24p? Camcorderinfo says yes but it's not on Panasonic's sites.

No 24p Paulo. Not my thing anyway, but it's not present that I've seen.
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post #30 of 112 Old 03-27-2013, 04:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatchback View Post

According to the camcorderinfo review, the X920M at 800x800 lpph is significantly less sharp than the X900M at 1000x950 lpph or even the three year old TM700 at 1000x900 lpph. Jeremy Stamas reports:
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/panasonic-hc-x920-camcorder-review-2/science-page

Unfortunately I no longer have my TM900 to compare, but I can tell you the X920 is damn sharp. I can't recall ever seeing more detail on any cam I've owned. I mean we're talking really crisp video. I also see no evidence of edge enhancement or over-sharpening. None.
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