New Canon HF G30! - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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Camcorders > New Canon HF G30!
Acid Snow's Avatar Acid Snow 04:00 PM 05-13-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

Almost every camcorder, and many cameras, Sony and Panasonic make record at "true" 1080p, including the basic ones. Both make pocketable cameras that record at 1080p. What the heck are you talking about?
I'm looking for a camcorder that doesn't record at 1080 interlaced. I'm looking for a camcorder that records at 60fps because I have a Pioneer KURO 500M monitor, and I want to be able to record & watch awesome film material. ...But I don't want 20 extra buttons/features that I won't ever use; I just need awesome video quality.

It seems like most advanced [3 CMOS] cameras which cost ~$2K+ have a dozen buttons/attachments & hookups that are just ridiculous for my intended use.
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markr041's Avatar markr041 04:56 PM 05-13-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acid Snow View Post

I'm looking for a camcorder that doesn't record at 1080 interlaced. I'm looking for a camcorder that records at 60fps because I have a Pioneer KURO 500M monitor, and I want to be able to record & watch awesome film material. ...But I don't want 20 extra buttons/features that I won't ever use; I just need awesome video quality.

It seems like most advanced [3 CMOS] cameras which cost ~$2K+ have a dozen buttons/attachments & hookups that are just ridiculous for my intended use.

I am with you on wanting 108060p. Almost every camera that Panasonic and Sony make does 108060p. I do not understand what you are talking about. You have lots of choices, from pocket cameras with big zooms, waterproof pocketable cameras and camcorders, mid-range camcorders. Just go the Panasonic and Sony web sites for all the choices. Almost none have any controls for video in fact and almost all do 108060p.
Acid Snow's Avatar Acid Snow 06:02 PM 05-13-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

I am with you on wanting 108060p. Almost every camera that Panasonic and Sony make does 108060p. I do not understand what you are talking about. You have lots of choices, from pocket cameras with big zooms, waterproof pocketable cameras and camcorders, mid-range camcorders. Just go the Panasonic and Sony web sites for all the choices. Almost none have any controls for video in fact and almost all do 108060p.
I suppose my frustration is fused by the fact that the G30 is Cannon's only option for 1080/60p image... I've been a Cannon user since '08, and none of their consumer grade cameras can deliver 1080p, which boggles my mind.

1080p TV's have been around for many-many years, so I'm skeptical (as a casual consumer) about a camcorder that can deliver true 1080p... I don't know if I should wait for the G30 & bust a nut on it, or just save $1,000 and get a Sony/Panasonic. The reviews are so average at best, I don't know what to do being a noob!
Ungermann's Avatar Ungermann 07:26 PM 05-13-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acid Snow View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

I am with you on wanting 108060p. Almost every camera that Panasonic and Sony make does 108060p. I do not understand what you are talking about. You have lots of choices, from pocket cameras with big zooms, waterproof pocketable cameras and camcorders, mid-range camcorders. Just go the Panasonic and Sony web sites for all the choices. Almost none have any controls for video in fact and almost all do 108060p.
I suppose my frustration is fused by the fact that the G30 is Cannon's only option for 1080/60p image... I've been a Cannon user since '08, and none of their consumer grade cameras can deliver 1080p, which boggles my mind.

1080p TV's have been around for many-many years, so I'm skeptical (as a casual consumer) about a camcorder that can deliver true 1080p... I don't know if I should wait for the G30 & bust a nut on it, or just save $1,000 and get a Sony/Panasonic. The reviews are so average at best, I don't know what to do being a noob!
* It is Canon, not Cannon. One might think that five years should be enough to learn the name of the brand one is loyal to.
* Canon makes many consumer cameras that can deliver 1080p, but most of these are not 60p.
* Again, what is "delivering true 1080p" to you? If you want 1920x1080 unique pixels in every frame, then you will never get this from compressed video. If you are talking about format, then most recent camcorders can do it. Just do your homework.
* The Pioneer TVs were mostly recognized for superior deinterlacing, the feature that becomes completely redundant if you feed it with progressive signal. Could as well have a Vizio.
* If you are skeptical why asking for an advice? The HF10 is a great cam, but any 2-3 year old Panasonic will kill it resolution-wise.
hatchback's Avatar hatchback 08:43 PM 05-13-2013
I'm surprised at the hostile reaction to Acid Snow's request. None of the Canon consumer camcorders can record close to 1080 lines of resolution. The HF10 was measured by camcorderinfo to have 600 lines and the G20 at 650 lines. That's not even 720p! Are you really satisfied that Canon only puts 600 lines of resolution in their 1080p format? Wouldn't you prefer to get the full 1080 lines of resolution in your 1080p footage?
Acid Snow's Avatar Acid Snow 10:16 PM 05-13-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by hatchback View Post

I'm surprised at the hostile reaction to Acid Snow's request. None of the Canon consumer camcorders can record close to 1080 lines of resolution. The HF10 was measured by camcorderinfo to have 600 lines and the G20 at 650 lines. That's not even 720p! Are you really satisfied that Canon only puts 600 lines of resolution in their 1080p format? Wouldn't you prefer to get the full 1080 lines of resolution in your 1080p footage?
Agreed, Ungermann comes across as a jerk, sure he has some helpful info, but when he interlaces all his info in a dick tone, I really don't get much out of what he says. ...I'm not impressed by his elitist attitude, I just want a good camcorder, not a lecture on how to spell "Canon."

I'm beginning to question myself if posting in this topic was a good idea rolleyes.gif
kkfok1031's Avatar kkfok1031 12:46 AM 05-14-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by hatchback View Post

I'm surprised at the hostile reaction to Acid Snow's request. None of the Canon consumer camcorders can record close to 1080 lines of resolution. The HF10 was measured by camcorderinfo to have 600 lines and the G20 at 650 lines. That's not even 720p! Are you really satisfied that Canon only puts 600 lines of resolution in their 1080p format? Wouldn't you prefer to get the full 1080 lines of resolution in your 1080p footage?

HF-G20 according to Camcorder info is : 850 LPPH at MTF50 moving horizontally and 650 LPPH on the vertical.
I think it is not bad.
hatchback's Avatar hatchback 03:49 AM 05-14-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkfok1031 View Post

HF-G20 according to Camcorder info is : 850 LPPH at MTF50 moving horizontally and 650 LPPH on the vertical.
I think it is not bad.
Personally I would like 1080 lines of resolution in a file format that supports 1080 lines. 650 lines of resolution is on the low end for modern camcorders; its less than 720p. Even the unhacked GH1 from 2009 can provide 650 lines of resolution. FWIW, the Panasonic high-end consumer camcorders are much closer to 1080 -- the TM700 was measured at 900 lines and the X900M at 950 lines. (The X920M measured 800, but the configuration used for that test has been questioned.)
flintyplus's Avatar flintyplus 04:28 AM 05-14-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by hatchback View Post

Personally I would like 1080 lines of resolution in a file format that supports 1080 lines. 650 lines of resolution is on the low end for modern camcorders; its less than 720p. Even the unhacked GH1 from 2009 can provide 650 lines of resolution. FWIW, the Panasonic high-end consumer camcorders are much closer to 1080 -- the TM700 was measured at 900 lines and the X900M at 950 lines. (The X920M measured 800, but the configuration used for that test has been questioned.)


What are you talking about,forget the jerks at camcorderinfo,i have an XA10 which is pretty much the same as the HF G10,My XA10 can resolve as many lines as my GH2 in tests i have done plus far better colour and less M & A and at least 30% more resolution than my FZ150 in 50P mode,where is 720P coming from.
Acid Snow's Avatar Acid Snow 10:44 AM 05-23-2013
I took a look at differing CMOS sizes and the G30's seems pretty small.
...The sensor is 5mm wide by 4mm tall, how is it possible for such a small sensor to deliver good 1080p video? I don't know much of anything about CMOS sensors or the technology behind their ability to take in, and spit out a recording, but this sensor is half the size of my pinky-finger's fingernail. It just seems WTF small, should this be a concern?
OldPix3l's Avatar OldPix3l 04:36 PM 05-23-2013
I'm really exited as to how this camcorder performs. hopefully it's in the store here in Europe start June.
scorrpio's Avatar scorrpio 06:37 PM 05-24-2013
P&S cameras with sensors about same size deliver 12-16 megapixels. 1080p video is only 2 megapixels. A bit of math shows that if a 1/2.3" sensor is only 1920x1080, it has about same photosite density as an APS-C sensor of a DSLR like Nikon D7100, and is likely to offer same noise performance.

Now, consider what kind of lens is there on a camcorder like G30: a 3.67-73.4mm (35mm equivalent 27-576mm), with a whopping f/1.8-2.8 aperture range providing a lot of light. Finally, for video, even at 60p, you don't need shutter speeds faster than 1/60, while action photoraphy often demands much shorter exposures to provide a sharp image.

My point is that limitations of small sensors seen in P&S photo cameras are not very applicable to camcorders.

Now, the fact that a high end camcorder has a ton of buttons and options does not mean they all have to be used. Most high end models have a very capable auto mode. But investing $1500+ in a camera, just like with DSLR's, usually means a certain level of dedication, and the best way to use a camera to its full potential is for a skilled user to have complete control - and that means a lot of buttons, dials etc.
Acid Snow's Avatar Acid Snow 06:54 PM 05-24-2013
Will we see reviews before it goes on sale? Or do they not usually distribute review models early?
...I'm sure they've already begun manufacturing the G30, so I'm hoping for some early impressions!
hatchback's Avatar hatchback 07:56 AM 05-25-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by scorrpio View Post

Now, consider what kind of lens is there on a camcorder like G30: a 3.67-73.4mm (35mm equivalent 27-576mm), with a whopping f/1.8-2.8 aperture range providing a lot of light. Finally, for video, even at 60p, you don't need shutter speeds faster than 1/60, while action photoraphy often demands much shorter exposures to provide a sharp image.
The G30 has a crop factor of 7.84, which means its imaging system is equivalent to a 27mm f14.1 to 576mm f22.0 lens on a 35mm sensor. So it's not quite as bright or low-light friendly as it seems at first glance, especially at the long end of the zoom.
c-not-k's Avatar c-not-k 08:01 AM 05-25-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acid Snow View Post

Will we see reviews before it goes on sale? Or do they not usually distribute review models early?
...I'm sure they've already begun manufacturing the G30, so I'm hoping for some early impressions!

+1. I really want this one.
HammerDownProd's Avatar HammerDownProd 10:15 AM 05-30-2013
Has anyone heard if its still June 30 before its release for sale in U.S.? And as for Acid Snow, isn't a GOPRO hero 3 black edition 1080p at 60fps? I thought i read that somewhere. Just thought i would throw that camera in the mix. Im definately no expert for sure.
Acid Snow's Avatar Acid Snow 11:24 AM 05-30-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerDownProd View Post

Acid Snow, isn't a GOPRO hero 3 black edition 1080p at 60fps?
I have my doubts about a $400 camera delivering video at 1920*1080 @ 60Hz. I simply don't know enough about these cameras, but I don't trust any marketing talk these companies use, because 1080p could mean 1440*1080. I took a look at the high-end camcorders [$2,500+] from Canon, Sony & Panasonic, and even most of them only did 1080i; that has me scratching my head wondering wtf the story is with true 1080p video.
bsprague's Avatar bsprague 01:30 PM 05-30-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acid Snow View Post

I have my doubts about a $400 camera delivering video at 1920*1080 @ 60Hz. I simply don't know enough about these cameras, but I don't trust any marketing talk these companies use, because 1080p could mean 1440*1080. I took a look at the high-end camcorders [$2,500+] from Canon, Sony & Panasonic, and even most of them only did 1080i; that has me scratching my head wondering wtf the story is with true 1080p video.

1080x1920 60 frames per second (fps) was part of the evolution of AVCHD and Blu-Ray specifications controlled and owned by Sony and Panasonic. Both of those brands have been providing true 1080 x 1920 60 fps cameras for a while. Where the electrical standard is 50Hz, there are models to match.

I don't know anything about $2500 camcorders, but suspect the newer ones do have AVCHD 2.0 if they are from Panasonic or Sony. Between my wife and I we have 5 cameras that do really do have 1080x1920p60 settings. 3 of them cost $500 or less. Two were about $650. Only one looks like a "camcorder". The ones that get used the most are in stealth video mode. We can look like we are taking snapshots, but in truth we are sneaking around taking glorious color video!
ErLupo's Avatar ErLupo 12:34 PM 06-13-2013
Not sure if anyone has seen this. It's a 20 minute look at the HF-G30.... Youtube really sucks in terms of quality, but at least you can hear the impressions of the reviewer/previewer...

HG-G30 In Depth Look
jkjkll's Avatar jkjkll 02:18 AM 06-14-2013
That looks awesome.
Acid Snow's Avatar Acid Snow 09:18 AM 06-15-2013
Thanks for linking to that video ErLupo.
Ungermann's Avatar Ungermann 09:05 AM 06-18-2013
It is time to buy the XA10. Can get it for $300-$400 less than the G30. Only 10x lens and no 60p, on the other hand you get top handle and XLR.
c-not-k's Avatar c-not-k 10:56 AM 06-18-2013
I watched the review. Thanks for the link, ErLupo.

I thought about the XA10, but I think I'm going for the G30 to replace my HF 20. I need the 20X, and the WiFi controller is perfect for what I use my HF 20 for. (Recording my kids in concert.)
ErLupo's Avatar ErLupo 09:56 AM 06-19-2013
Found a few others now....

Multiple Videos of HFG30 in Action

These have gone up in the last couple of days. Hoping to get some good feedback from the experts around here. FYI, I own an XA10.
flintyplus's Avatar flintyplus 12:09 AM 06-20-2013
Why did those silly people use youtube c--- and not vimeo where the origional footage could have been downloaded for a proper look.unless there is a way to do it with youtube i am not aware.
Paulo Teixeira's Avatar Paulo Teixeira 12:22 AM 06-20-2013
As you can see, their are adds on the videos and so that user is making money every-time they upload a new video to YouTube. They also have 2,582 subscribers. Anyway, you can always message the user and see if he/she would be willing to upload some native files to Vimeo and then give you the links. That's what I did to some users on YouTube immediately when the TM700 got released. A lot of them did replay back to me and put up a native sample on Vimeo.

Their is no current way to download original files on YouTube. Their are many ways to download the 1080p streaming file but as we all know, those have already been compressed.
OldPix3l's Avatar OldPix3l 01:11 AM 06-25-2013
It seems it's going to be very difficult to get a hold on this camcorder in Europe in June. I'm from Denmark, and alle retailers now have a date in July. The worst case is July 19th. Even Amazon.co.uk says "ships in one-two months". Can't Canon keep up with the preorders or what? Canon Denmark keeps saying June, but I'm beginning to think otherwise.
OldPix3l's Avatar OldPix3l 12:52 PM 06-28-2013
Unboxing and quick look video: http://youtu.be/u4hToJN2pYI
ErLupo's Avatar ErLupo 11:15 AM 06-30-2013
First review of the XA25...

VIDEOMAKER CANON XA25 REVIEW
flintyplus's Avatar flintyplus 12:11 AM 07-01-2013
Not sure if there is a noticable difference in the video quality of 28mbps avchd and mpeg4.
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