New Canon HF G30! - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 225 Old 07-02-2013, 06:56 AM
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Ok, finally some real video trickling out from the HF-G30. Not sure if Canon was just not proud of this product, but I find it strange that no one had an early review to post... Anyway, enjoy the footage. Looks pretty good to my untrained eyes.

HF-G30 Early Footage

HF-G30 Bokeh Test

XA20 Test at the Parade

Canon XA25 Dog Test
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post #92 of 225 Old 07-02-2013, 09:10 AM
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Did you expect a huge difference from the G10?
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post #93 of 225 Old 07-02-2013, 09:59 AM
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post #94 of 225 Old 07-02-2013, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

Did you expect a huge difference from the G10?

Not a huge difference. The color depth seems to be better. I'm happy to finally have 1080p in the cam. I sold my XA10 recently and replaced it with the XA20. The XA25 seemed to be a bit of overkill for my needs. I've captured a lot of indoor basketball footage in the past couple of years and my XA10 consistently bested the quality from various Panasonic and Sony camcorders in the same price range. In all honesty, I probably could have done with the G30, but I do find the handle and IR functionality helpful in certain situations.

@ungermann, I'm no pro, so if you can explain the difference in color between the XA20 and XA25 and why it would make a difference to an enthusiast (but not a professional) like me, I'd like to learn about it.
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post #95 of 225 Old 07-02-2013, 11:26 AM
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All the consumer cams are 8-bit 4:2:0, so depth is pretty much the same across the board. The color may be more saturated simply because the sensor is more sensitive. Pro cameras have the benefit of allowing adjustments to gamma correction producing different "feels", while consumer cams have to live with just one preset (or two in case of Canon/Pana Cinema shooting modes).

I am not a pro, but AFAIK you either shoot raw (12-bit or 14-bit full color with flat look) and then color correct anyway you wish, or you shoot pedestrian 8-bit with color subsampling but for best results you color correct in-camera using suitable color profile.

I was thinking about getting the outgoing XA10, it temporarily dropped to $1300 new couple of weeks ago, but now it is back at $1600. I am not going to do this again: buying a near-$2K camera only for it to accumulate dust sitting on a shelf, I have enough toys to play with.
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post #96 of 225 Old 07-02-2013, 11:35 AM
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@Ungermann! I totally understand where you are coming from. I have to say that my XA10 served me quite well. Bertween low light shooting at crappy Middle School plays in the dark and poorly lit high school gyms, my investment over the two years paid off. It was my main camera. I also have recently been shooting with a secondary cam (usually a GW77) to get action shots, but it isn't nearly as accurate as the XA10 was.

I was able to resell my XA10 for 1549, which made my upgrade a little more palatable. The GW77 is used on the go at family functions (I usually let my wife use it), so it has its place. But when I get fairly serious, I take the bigger camcorder. Personally, most people (me included) probably just need the G10. Those refurb deals at 500 or so make it almost a no brainer.
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post #97 of 225 Old 07-02-2013, 06:00 PM
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Video samples for some reason do not look good to my eye when panning. Not sure if it's rolling shutter or compression for the web or maybe I am just seeing what's not there.

I am selecting camera for shooting sports (hockey) and I will have to pan quite a lot.
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post #98 of 225 Old 07-02-2013, 06:26 PM
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If it is as good as the XA10, you should be fine. However, rolling shutter is quite common with the CMOS based cameras and even my old XA10 suffered from it.

I just got the XA20 today, so I am going to put it through its paces in the next week or so.
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post #99 of 225 Old 07-03-2013, 12:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErLupo View Post

If it is as good as the XA10, you should be fine. However, rolling shutter is quite common with the CMOS based cameras and even my old XA10 suffered from it.

I just got the XA20 today, so I am going to put it through its paces in the next week or so.

Sometime in the future i shall be changing my XA10 for an XA20,mainly for the better lens for wildlife filming,but i am interested if the 28mbps 50/60P or mpeg 4 35mbps have a noticable difference in sharpness over the XA10.
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post #100 of 225 Old 07-03-2013, 11:22 AM
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I don't see a reason for 28 Mbit/s 1080p60 to be sharper or more detailed than 24 Mbit/s 1080p24. Should be better than interlaced though.
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post #101 of 225 Old 07-03-2013, 02:30 PM
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Well with the GH2 i had the difference between the 17mbps and 24mbps 24/25Ps was noticable,but 24 to 28 is only an increase of 4,this is why i wonder about the 35mbps mp4.
Reading from another forum[ BP827 battery will not operate my XA-20.]http://www.videoguys.com.au/Shop/p/28507/canon-bp-828-lithium-ion-battery-pack-2670mah-bp828.html looks like its needed for the new models,which will be expensive for G10/XA10 owners changing to the new models.
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post #102 of 225 Old 07-03-2013, 02:52 PM
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I think that even with 35 Mbit/s the Canon will not beat Panasonic's 28 Mbit/s 60p mode in terms of resolution, it is more sensor-related. But the higher the bitrate the fewer artifacts, this is always good.
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post #103 of 225 Old 07-03-2013, 03:04 PM
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Ok, since my normal tests are always done just by filming basketball games, what would you like me to record to give you guys decent samples?
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post #104 of 225 Old 07-03-2013, 03:22 PM
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If you haven't sold your XA10 I would ask for some side-by-side shots, but too late now.
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post #105 of 225 Old 07-04-2013, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErLupo View Post

Ok, since my normal tests are always done just by filming basketball games, what would you like me to record to give you guys decent samples?

As an XA10 and now XA20 owner please can you can confirm if the XA20 will or not work with the XA10 batteries and charger ,this may make me think about changing for a while if not.
Some wide to medium country views as well as various shots of people in crowds would be nice samples.
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post #106 of 225 Old 07-06-2013, 08:25 AM
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The charger for HF G10 and HF G25 works but the battery BP-819 is not compatible. The HF G30 shuts off if You try to use it.
I like my new Legria HF G30. I see no more aliasing ( jaggies ) like I had with the HF G10. The new bundled software from Pixela works with my HF G10 and HF G25 too. The old Pixela software bundled with HF G25 did not work with any of my 4 Pc:s.
I use Power Director 11 for editing. It makes 1080/50p 28 Mbps AVCHD movies flawlessly. I would like to share some nice files I made with fantastic dynamic depth but my experience with uploading to Youtube is terrible compression artifacts. I will wait for the day when Youtube can deliver 28 Mbps.
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post #107 of 225 Old 07-06-2013, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bixbe View Post

The charger for HF G10 and HF G25 works but the battery BP-819 is not compatible. The HF G30 shuts off if You try to use it.
This sucks. Canon became as greedy as Panasonic.
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post #108 of 225 Old 07-06-2013, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bixbe View Post

The charger for HF G10 and HF G25 works but the battery BP-819 is not compatible. The HF G30 shuts off if You try to use it.
I like my new Legria HF G30. I see no more aliasing ( jaggies ) like I had with the HF G10. The new bundled software from Pixela works with my HF G10 and HF G25 too. The old Pixela software bundled with HF G25 did not work with any of my 4 Pc:s.
I use Power Director 11 for editing. It makes 1080/50p 28 Mbps AVCHD movies flawlessly. I would like to share some nice files I made with fantastic dynamic depth but my experience with uploading to Youtube is terrible compression artifacts. I will wait for the day when Youtube can deliver 28 Mbps.

Have you used mpeg4 35mbps,if so is there a noticable difference between it and 1080P 28mbps avchd.
Regarding youtube there is always vimeo plus,i dont use it as its not free unlike normal vimeo which is only 720P but with vimeo plus the full lossles quality is put on and can be downloaded for viewing on any large screen tv etc,https://vimeo.com/66996517 on large screen looks superb.
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post #109 of 225 Old 07-09-2013, 03:09 AM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8CLOEzY7F0
Okay...I gave Youtube a chance with the lower bitrate. Rather pointless if You see no difference from other cameras. Vimeo Pro costs too much when uploads are rare. I haven´t tested MP4 yet...
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post #110 of 225 Old 07-09-2013, 09:20 AM
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The stabilizer seems to be less sophisticated than Panasonic's or Sony's, but on another hand this is 20x, not 12x.
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post #111 of 225 Old 07-09-2013, 12:41 PM
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....Maybe it´s the shaky old cameraman..smile.gif
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post #112 of 225 Old 07-09-2013, 03:59 PM
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Here's a not so stellar review of the camcorder....

DIGITAL VERSUS REVIEW OF THE LEGRIA HF-G30
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post #113 of 225 Old 07-10-2013, 12:25 AM
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That sounds biased in the extreme , i have tested the panasonic camcorders and my XA10 has a superior image ,far superior colour and good resolution,now this egg head Renaud Labracherie comes out with this,if so the new models have stepped back,time will tell.Having sold cams and cameras my only ones at present are the XA10 and FZ150,the Canons resolution is vastly higher than the Panasonic camera,now egg head is saying the new GH is on the soft side having said that unnatural over sharpened video look is probobly rennys thing.
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post #114 of 225 Old 07-10-2013, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flintyplus View Post

That sounds biased in the extreme , i have tested the panasonic camcorders and my XA10 has a superior image ,far superior colour and good resolution,now this egg head Renaud Labracherie comes out with this,if so the new models have stepped back,time will tell.Having sold cams and cameras my only ones at present are the XA10 and FZ150,the Canons resolution is vastly higher than the Panasonic camera,now egg head is saying the new GH is on the soft side having said that unnatural over sharpened video look is probobly rennys thing.

A comparative test chart, as provided in the review, is not biased. The X920 - as all the recent top Panasonic camcorders (e.g., TM900, X900) - have the highest resolution of all camcorders, always clearly better than the Canons and Sonys. The FZ150 may have lower resolution than the X920, but it is not a camcorder. "Superior" image? in what way, besides color accuracy (don't know), noise (worse on the Canon as shown in the review), and resolution (worse on the Canon)?
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post #115 of 225 Old 07-10-2013, 07:36 AM
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Well as i said i can only compare my XA10 which being previous to the new models should be inferior to them,compared to my FZ150 it has 30% more resolution,and i had a Pana TM700 for a test a while back and still have the footage,my XA10 has better colour contrast than that one,the TM700 picture was sharp but nowhere as pleasing overal as my canon ,i have not tested the X920 so cant comment but it is strange many wedding videographers use even the G10,do any use Pana consumer cams.
https://vimeo.com/69985515 GH-10 wedding
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post #116 of 225 Old 07-10-2013, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flintyplus View Post

the TM700 picture was sharp but nowhere as pleasing overal as my canon
Apple to oranges. The Panasonics have sharp, detailed, high-contrast, almost oversaturated image. The Canons have more muted, relaxed, cinema-like if you wish image. But resolution-wise the modern Panasonics beat the Canons. But resolution is not the only criteria. I don't see what's the problem with the Canon having lower resolution but overall more pleasing (to some) picture.
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post #117 of 225 Old 07-10-2013, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

Apple to oranges. The Panasonics have sharp, detailed, high-contrast, almost oversaturated image. The Canons have more muted, relaxed, cinema-like if you wish image. But resolution-wise the modern Panasonics beat the Canons. But resolution is not the only criteria. I don't see what's the problem with the Canon having lower resolution but overall more pleasing (to some) picture.

Nothing wrong with preferring the "warm" (ie, inaccurate) Canon colors. What was wrong was calling a review biased for calling out the Canon for lower resolution - and really bad aliasing - demonstrated in a test chart! Preferring Canon colors or Panasonic colors is actually a bias (perfectly ok).
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post #118 of 225 Old 07-10-2013, 01:51 PM
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The question has to be how did Canon recede in low light capture, when that's what they went out of their way to call out? The XA10/G10 was phenomenal in dimly lit places, so I don't see how they would fail at matching at least the standard they set for themselves. If work wasn't killing me now, I'd put the camcorder to task (I will need to before the 30 days are up anyway). This weekend I will film at a basketball tournament. I have plenty of footage from tournaments this and last year to be able to compare resolution and accuracy.

The picture was softer on the XA10 than on the Panasonics, but everyone who ever watched any of my footage and compared it to the Pannys always thought it gave them a more "HD" quality. This is not scientific but rather personal preference. Hopefully the XA20 keeps that up.
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post #119 of 225 Old 07-11-2013, 01:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErLupo View Post

The question has to be how did Canon recede in low light capture, when that's what they went out of their way to call out? The XA10/G10 was phenomenal in dimly lit places, so I don't see how they would fail at matching at least the standard they set for themselves. If work wasn't killing me now, I'd put the camcorder to task (I will need to before the 30 days are up anyway). This weekend I will film at a basketball tournament. I have plenty of footage from tournaments this and last year to be able to compare resolution and accuracy.

The picture was softer on the XA10 than on the Panasonics, but everyone who ever watched any of my footage and compared it to the Pannys always thought it gave them a more "HD" quality. This is not scientific but rather personal preference. Hopefully the XA20 keeps that up.

Yes i cant understand if the new models are at least as good as the XA10 range in low light,My XA10 has as much resolution as a GH2 i owned,i did tests and stupid statements regarding color are not worth mentioning,
https://vimeo.com/31512682 films like that can be downloaded and played on any TV or screen and is what is needed as long as they allow the origional file.
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post #120 of 225 Old 07-11-2013, 10:17 AM
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I just acquired a G30 and have been testing the WIFI functionality for recording. I also wanted to know if the LANC functionality would be fully functional at the same time as the WIFI control. Works great. I am able to control the camera and watch the live video from the camera over the internet including smooth zoom using a WEB enabled LANC controller. I am hopeful I will be able to use two of these for streaming live 3D over the internet. Looks like it will work. The ability to control functions such as white balance, shutter speed, aperture, etc is fantastic.

Did IQ's suddenly drop sharply while I was away?
I enjoy 3D in spite of HDMI 1.4!
Full screen only 3D doesn't cut it!
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