New Canon HF G30! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 218 Old 04-03-2013, 09:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Found this linked to on another site and thought I would share the good news!

http://usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/standard_display/facebook_april
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post #2 of 218 Old 04-03-2013, 09:20 AM
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That is a great find! Finally, Canon is coming to its senses. The X920 will not reign for long. I am more interested in the XA20/25. The XA20 will have 1080p60 both in AVCHD and MP4 variants, while the XA25 will also have HD/SD-SDI ports. Canon is pushing the XA models to serious professional territory.

The cheapest XA10 that can be found on eBay now is about $1300. I wonder whether new models will push prices on XA10 further down.
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post #3 of 218 Old 04-03-2013, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
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I see the guys over at DV Info are speculating the XD-SDI to be the smallest camera with HD SDI output? I am only vaguely familiar with external uncompressed capture, but I gather that is a pretty big deal for it to not just be HDMI uncompressed output.
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post #4 of 218 Old 04-03-2013, 09:57 AM
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That looks awesome. New sensor, 60p and OLED display. I'm guessing they updated the menu system.

HF G20 uses the old batteries (BP819/BP827) whereas the HF G30 uses a new battery line..

According to CCI, there are only 2 card slots/no internal memory:
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/news/canon-s-new-flagship-hf-g30-has-a-ton-of-upgrades

Since they recently gave the HF G20 a 10.0 rating, they can't go any higher with the HF G30. Maybe they can tag on a + sign.
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post #5 of 218 Old 04-03-2013, 11:40 AM
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Canon finally gets in gear with a 1080p60 camcorder with great specs.
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This week the brand new Canon VIXIA HF G30 camcorder was revealed as the company’s new flagship, made for both advanced amateurs and video enthusiasts alike. This camera will work with a fabulous 20x Genuine Canon HD Video Lens and the ability to record straight to MP4. You’ll also have built-in Wi-Fi connectivity and dual band wireless support!

You’ll find nothing less than one of the best experiences you’ve ever had with a handheld video camera using this beastly 20x wide-angle (35mm equivalent: 26.8mm – 536mm) f/1.8 HD Video Lens. This lens uses same Hi-UD (Hi Index Ultra Low Dispersion) technology you’ll be finding in Canon’s XF professional camcorder line as well as a new 8-blade circular aperture using the same tech found in Canon’s EF series lenses. You’ve also got a dedicated manual focus ring as well as a custom key – make it work!


You’ve got a whole new HD CMOS PRO Image Sensor here that works in combination with your new DIGIC DV 4 Image Processor and SuperRange Optical Image Stabilization for what Canon notes will be “high sensitivity and wide dynamic range while providing images with low noise, more depth, and enhancing vibration control.”


With this camera’s new Dual Recording feature you’ll be able to grab both 1080/60p MP4 (35Mbps) and AVCHD Progressive (28 Mbps). You’ll also find cinematic recording at Native 24p, a set of two SD memory card slots (amazing!) and Relay Recording. With Relay Recording your recording will instantly start on one SD card after the first has been filled – greatness!

• 0.24-inch high-resolution (1.56-million-dot) angle-adjustable color viewfinder (CVF) with a large-sized eyecup
• 45-degree angle CVF tilt
• built-in Remote Control Terminal (with LANC protocol support)
• manual color temperature adjustment (2,000K-15,000K in 100K increments)
• color bars with test tone
• manual shutter speed and aperture control
• all new zoom lever

And Wi-fi connectivity allows you to work with Canon’s new set of remote controls – you’ll be able to control your recordings from a web browser while using your PC, smartphone, or tablet. You’ll also be able to use Canon’s Movie Uploader app for iOS – easy and free!

The Canon VIXIA HF G30 camcorder will be available in June starting at an estimated retail price of $1,699.99 USD. We’ll be checking it out soon – stay tuned for SlashGear for all the most excellent Canon action, back to front!
http://www.slashgear.com/canon-vixia-hf-g30-camcorder-unleashed-with-dual-card-functionality-03276300/


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post #6 of 218 Old 04-03-2013, 12:38 PM
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"With this camera’s new Dual Recording feature you’ll be able to grab both 1080/60p MP4 (35Mbps) and AVCHD Progressive (28 Mbps)." -- I am highly skeptical about being able to record AVCHD on one card and MP4 onto another simultaneously. Not that I would really need this feature, but these guys make it sound like the camera can do that.

Finally, with manual controls, tilt-up viewfinder and beefy look Canon made a decent follow-up for the Sony HC1. Yay, it has been almost a decade!

And the XA20/25 are the tapeless equivalents to the venerable Sony A1. The NX70 is too expensive. The NX30 is a consumer cam with XLR adapter. The HM150 has jello-free CCDs, but crappy stabilizer. The AC90 may have the best stabilizer in the group, but its sensors are too small. Overall I believe that the XA20/25 is the better package.

We've seen how resolution varies on Panasonic camcorders depending on shooting mode: about 800 lines in interlaced, and about 1000 lines in 60p. I am really interested to see resolution numbers of the new Canons in 50p/60p mode. Will it be different for AVCHD and MP4? If both containers use AVC encoding, then 35 Mbit/s MP4 should yield better artifact-free picture.

Next step in the race is 50 Mbit/s 4:2:2 AVC Long-G. UHS-I cards have enough speed. Anyone? Anyone? Panasonic?
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post #7 of 218 Old 04-04-2013, 03:11 PM
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I won't need the XA25 to replace the XA10, but am seriously waffling between the XA20 and the G30. I loved the idea of the handle on the XA10, but we all know how that actually ended up working out for most...
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post #8 of 218 Old 04-04-2013, 07:20 PM
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Wow the G30 is an immense upgrade over the G20/G10: (1) 20x f1.8-2.8 zoom vs 10x f1.8-2.8 zoom; (2) 1080p60 at 28Mbps or 35Mbps; and (3) larger sensor (1/2.84" vs 1/3.2") with more pixels (2136x1362 vs 1920x1080). The increase in sensor size will likely improve the low light performance, and the modest increase in pixel count should increase the measured resolution after de-Bayering by 26% The only downside is the weight (2lbs). Nonetheless, this is the most exciting consumer camcorder announced so far this year!
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post #9 of 218 Old 04-04-2013, 10:06 PM
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C'mon, it is a development of the same sensor used in the HV20. The 20x lens is a big deal though.
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post #10 of 218 Old 04-04-2013, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatchback View Post

Wow the G30 is an immense upgrade over the G20/G10: (1) 20x f1.8-2.8 zoom vs 10x f1.8-2.8 zoom; (2) 1080p60 at 28Mbps or 35Mbps; and (3) larger sensor (1/2.84" vs 1/3.2") with more pixels (2136x1362 vs 1920x1080). The increase in sensor size will likely improve the low light performance, and the modest increase in pixel count should increase the measured resolution after de-Bayering by 26% The only downside is the weight (2lbs). Nonetheless, this is the most exciting consumer camcorder announced so far this year!

Larger sensor/more pixels will not increase resolution in my opinion, although 60p will increase resolution over the existing 60i.

I'm betting they will still have native 1920x1080 resolution & will accomplish part of their image stabilization by moving the recorded 1920x1080 pixels away from the center 1920x1080 pixels on the sensor as needed to stabilize the image. The lens design must have a larger image circle to cover the extended sensor real estate.

--Alan
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post #11 of 218 Old 04-04-2013, 11:38 PM
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Increasing the number of photo sites on a camera's sensor can definitely increase the measured resolution of the camera's footage . With only 1920x1080 effective sensor photo sites, each capable of sensing only one color (Bayer color filter), the G10/G20 1080p footage has a relatively low measured resolution of roughly 850x600. Increasing the number of pixels on the sensor by 11% horizontally and 26% vertically means that the measured resolution of the 1080p footage should increase correspondingly to a more competitive 944x756.

Adding 60p by itself will not increase the measured resolution of the frames, although it will increase the temporal resolution. Increasing the bitrate of the encoding can, however, increase the measured resolution of the frames.
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post #12 of 218 Old 04-05-2013, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatchback View Post

Adding 60p by itself will not increase the measured resolution of the frames, although it will increase the temporal resolution.
There is no difference in temporal resolution between 30i (a.k.a. 60i) and 60p.
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post #13 of 218 Old 04-05-2013, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

There is no difference in temporal resolution between 30i (a.k.a. 60i) and 60p.
30i means that the footage contains 30 half frames per second. 60i means that the footage contains 60 half frames per second. 60p means that the footage has 60 full frames per second. So clearly there is a significant difference between 30i, 60i, and 60p. And also clearly 30i is not also known as 60i.

Temporal resolution is determined by how the sensor is scanned, not how the frames are encoded. Some cameras scan their sensor at once (all scan lines in one time interval). Other cameras scan their sensor with alternating scan lines, although these are less common. Each full frame from the sensor can be encoded in the footage either as a single progressive frame or as two interlaced frames. Sometimes frames are doubled, eg., when a sensor is scanned at 24 fps but encoded as 60i then some of the frames must be doubled. When people refer to the footage as 60i, they are not specifying anything about how the frames are scanned from the sensor. It could be 24 full frames per second, 30 full frames per second, 60 half frames per second, and so on. On most modern camcorders with a 60i setting, the sensor is scanned progressively at 30 frames per second and then encoded as 60 interlaced half-frames per second. In that situation, a camera that scans 60 fps and encodes it as 60p has double the temporal resolution of a camera that scans 30 fps and encodes it as 60i.
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post #14 of 218 Old 04-05-2013, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatchback View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

There is no difference in temporal resolution between 30i (a.k.a. 60i) and 60p.
30i means that the footage contains 30 half frames per second. 60i means that the footage contains 60 half frames per second. 60p means that the footage has 60 full frames per second. So clearly there is a significant difference between 30i, 60i, and 60p. And also clearly 30i is not also known as 60i.
30i is the same as 60i, The difference is only in notation. 30i(60i) and 60p have 60 images per second, hence the same temporal resolution.
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post #15 of 218 Old 04-06-2013, 02:40 AM
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Would be nice to see some video samples soon. rolleyes.gif

Inviato dal mio LT22i con Tapatalk 2
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post #16 of 218 Old 04-06-2013, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatchback View Post

Increasing the number of photo sites on a camera's sensor can definitely increase the measured resolution of the camera's footage . With only 1920x1080 effective sensor photo sites, each capable of sensing only one color (Bayer color filter), the G10/G20 1080p footage has a relatively low measured resolution of roughly 850x600. Increasing the number of pixels on the sensor by 11% horizontally and 26% vertically means that the measured resolution of the 1080p footage should increase correspondingly to a more competitive 944x756.

that logic assumes that the glass is utilizing all of the pixels in the sensor, which is not always the case these days... look at dslrs.

putting oversized sensors in cameras sells more cameras... ala dslr's again, the measured resolution for those things used to be worse than what you got with these cheap video cameras, as camcorderinfo has pointed out numerous times... giant sensor, lousy resolution.

on the flip side, oversized sensors can also leave room for new methods of motion compensation... but that won't increase the resolution.
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post #17 of 218 Old 04-07-2013, 08:41 PM
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Of course Canon could add the pixels to the sensor and increase the sensor size and then just not use them. Of course they could also rework the image processing algorithms to actually decrease the measured resolution of the camera. You never know with those crazy disfunctional Canon engineers.
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post #18 of 218 Old 04-12-2013, 08:30 AM
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This is awesome news. Just a few weeks ago we were lamenting that canon was shorting us with the g20. I can't wait to see samples.
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post #19 of 218 Old 04-12-2013, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
The G20 has the exact same record modes as the G10: users are limited to a default 60i setting—there’s still no 60p option. It’s a downright shame that the G20 didn't bring this feature to the party, especially considering its competitors (like Sony's HDR-CX760V, our 2012 Camcorder of the Year) have stepped up their frame rate game.
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/canon-hf-g20-review-3

CamcorderInfo.com gave the G20 a perfect 10 rating even after saying that so what will they give the G30 ?
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/ratings.htm
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post #20 of 218 Old 04-12-2013, 10:16 AM
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It is a sliding scale. The g30 will be 10, the g20 will slide lower.
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post #21 of 218 Old 04-13-2013, 12:30 AM
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The new frame and bit rates are not of great importance to me,my XA10 has much better colour than my GH2 or A Pana TM i once owned that was sharp but too video like,we are a video forum admitted.
Not sure if its my pc or the forum playing up giving me double posts.
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post #22 of 218 Old 04-18-2013, 08:35 AM
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First Test and original Clips from Japan:
http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/series/zooma/20130417_596140.html
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post #23 of 218 Old 04-18-2013, 10:30 AM
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The 35mb/s MP4 sample does not look good at all. I did not see any 28mb/s AVCHD samples.
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post #24 of 218 Old 04-18-2013, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by takitano View Post

First Test and original Clips from Japan:
http://av.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/series/zooma/20130417_596140.html
Good find! Thanks for posting this. I agree with jogiba - the stationary 35Mbps footage (beginning and end of MVI_0181.mp4) has less detail than I'd hoped for. The resolution is still short of what Panasonic's 3MOS cameras deliver in bright light. Highlights on the model's nose and collarbone are blown out in sample.mp4, but this is to be expected from a small sensor camcorder. (BMCC footage is raising my expectations for dynamic range!) Bokeh in the out-of-focus regions is acceptable - not beautiful but certainly not nasty either. I like the new "Face Only AF" mode where it will only refocus on faces (demonstrated in the last 1/3 of the af.mp4 clip).
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post #25 of 218 Old 04-18-2013, 07:18 PM
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I'm looking to upgrade my TM700, either to the X920 or the G30. The TM700 footage is great in bright light, but in lower light and longer distance the footage turns to mush. I really notice it when filming indoor swimming in 1080p60 at the telephoto end (300mm). On the one hand, the X920 3MOS sensor has more resolution than the G30 Bayer sensor, and the low light performance is likely improved over the TM700 due to the BSI sensor. On the other hand, the G30 has a larger sensor (with a reputation for good low light performance) and (what is likely to be) a faster lens at 300mm. What do you guys think? Will the X920 or G30 be best for indoor swimming (low light with 1080p60 at 300mm)?
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post #26 of 218 Old 04-18-2013, 09:12 PM
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Canon getting in on the 1080 60p bandwagon for the top consumer camcorders is incredible.

As for choosing the X920 verses the G30, you'll also have to think of the price. Currently the X920 is going for $950 while the G30 will fetch $1,700 although hopefully it'll be cheaper when it's finally out.. For that kind of price, you might as well include the AC90 in your choices since it only cost $70 over the G30 which adds XLR inputs and comes with a 3 year warranty since it's under Panasonic's professional line. Still, it's a bit bigger than the G30 which can be a negative in some situations.
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post #27 of 218 Old 04-18-2013, 11:59 PM
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Not forget the Bondi-Blue effect by Panasonic! Although it does not happen very often (with X900/X920/X929). But for me it was a reason to sell my new X929. mad.gif Otherwise is this camera (Panasonic X920/929) of course 1A!smile.gif
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post #28 of 218 Old 04-19-2013, 12:47 AM
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Typical Pana crap bias on here,the color on the Canon is vastly superior to Panas,all this more resolution talk is also poo,i dont have the new model but even on my older cam the sharpness is too much at times so i reduce it,color low light good resolution as long as its controled is what matters,when i had a TM it lasted 2 days before i knew i would never like it,i still have a GH2 but after getting a Canon cam its only used for stills,the trouble is i may not be able to resist one of the new models XA or G,for wildlife the new lens looks great.
As for black magic,they sound great,but editing avchd is enough for me at present and if my cam produced crap like this it would not last long
http://vimeo.com/63493930#at=0
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post #29 of 218 Old 04-19-2013, 12:16 PM
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Here is that 35mb/s MP4 sample on youtube:
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post #30 of 218 Old 04-19-2013, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flintyplus View Post

Typical Pana crap bias on here,the color on the Canon is vastly superior to Panas
I definatelty agree. The Pana SD90 and TM900 camcorders I used to own were a step back in image brightness and accurate color reproduction compared to my Canon Rebel T3i so I sold them. Then I got a Pana LX7 and the image brightness was excellent, but the colors were only so, so and there is a lack of fine detail in the footage compared to my Olympus OMD even when shot at 1080/60p @ 28 mb/s. So at this point I would not consider another Panasonic video product unless I saw Youtube or Vimeo footage samples from a new model that demonstated major improvements have been made as compared to products from other brands.
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