Camcorder or DSLR for Video? - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 89 Old 07-07-2013, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

This is not a problem. The problem is using touch-sensitive LCD with the shade on.
If on a tripod, support the back of the LCD with one hand and use finger to touch with other.

You can also use a stylus pen/cheap on ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/10x-Metal-Universal-Stylus-Touch-Screen-Pen-For-iPhone-3GS-4G-4S-iPod-iPad-2-3rd-/300863579841?pt=US_Tablet_Styluses&hash=item460cdde6c1
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post #62 of 89 Old 07-07-2013, 09:19 PM
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easy Nikon d3200 most video looks just sexy.
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post #63 of 89 Old 07-08-2013, 05:49 AM
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Hmm, I'm almost afraid to ask what 'sexy video' looks like. wink.gif
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post #64 of 89 Old 07-08-2013, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

I am sorry, this advice is not right, and ignores what we know, which is that DSLR video quality - especially that of Canon DSLRs - is inferior to video from camcorders, in sharpness and in artifacts (rolling shutter, moire, etc.).

Moreover, camcorders have faster lenses and more zoom in smaller packages, and also as an option offer full manual control, as well as tweaks to quality like contrast and saturation and noise control (depending on model). The shallow dof of DSLRs gets in the way of achieving sharp focus quickly, which makes DSLRs especially poor for sports or kids action. The variable-speed zoom rockers on camcorders are much better for controlling zoom while shooting than any DSLR.The Canon EOS is a particularly poor autofocus camera, especially its slow (small-aperture) zoom.
What we know about DSLRs? Many of the DSLRs available now are used in Hollywood movie making and there is a Canon that matches the Red (a high end highly sought pro video camera). I agree when a DSLR is set on auto it's easy to use and depending on which you buy (mine is a Nikon D7000) you can get some amazing videos that you can't get with a similar priced camcorder. I am a photographer with an amateur movie maker boyfriend
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post #65 of 89 Old 07-08-2013, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by megdagooch View Post

What we know about DSLRs? Many of the DSLRs available now are used in Hollywood movie making and there is a Canon that matches the Red (a high end highly sought pro video camera). I agree when a DSLR is set on auto it's easy to use and depending on which you buy (mine is a Nikon D7000) you can get some amazing videos that you can't get with a similar priced camcorder. I am a photographer with an amateur movie maker boyfriend

Try using any DSLR to shoot a sports video, kids in action, video in museums. There is nothing a DSLR can do that a camcorder cannot, except achieve shallow dof shots in some circumstances and possibly some very low-light video. Few DSLRs offer sharp video that rivals much cheaper camcorders, and almost all offer much greater artifacts. Once you start talking about video cameras above $5,000, then it's a different world. And then there's the Blackmagic Pocket camera - it my blow away most DSLRs and camcorders, but cannot shoot 60p.

I am impressed that you post that the qualifications for your statement is that your boyfriend shoots movies as an amateur and you own a DSLR. Btw, "Hollywood" rarely uses DSLRs, but ESPN and FOX use camcorders extensively. This is not to say that one cannot shoot "amazing" video with DSLRs; but one can also shoot amazing videos with an iPhone. And there are some amazing videos you cannot get with a DSLR, because you are unlikely to carry one, with the requisite lenses, in many circumstances where you may have a smaller camcorder with you.

We are all amateur movie-makers here.
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post #66 of 89 Old 07-08-2013, 08:24 AM
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I think we should expand this to consider content.

For example:
- Sports/kids/action: 60p camcorder, 60p P&S (?)
- Short, narrative films: 24p/30p DSLR, mirrorless, camcorder (?)
- Comedy/YouTube: 30p camcorder, DSLR, mirrorless (?)
- Vlog/reviews YouTube: Any and all w/ tripod (?)
- Tests of pretty flowers: the most expensive DSLR available to mankind that blurs every single pixel to smithereens...except the flower
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post #67 of 89 Old 07-08-2013, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Well just to give everyone an update, I eventually decided on a camcorder, specifically between the V720 and the PJ380. I was debating on stepping up to the Sony PJ430V for the anti-shake feature that moves the entire lense block to keep the picture steady and the 5.1 surround sound, but couldn't justify the double the price (~$700-$800). Ended up with the PJ380 at Adorama for $450 with a free $50 gift card which I figure I'll need for a battery, case, tripod, or something similar... effective price at $400 which I thought was a great deal considering the CX (non-projector) versions were more expensive on other sites.

Ultimately it came down to simplicty in shooting amateur video, home video, sports, moving objects/scenes, etc. Something that I didn't need to mess with manual settings for, but had some options to play it that realm after I start to get comfortable with the camera. One of the biggest selling points was the size of the camcorder being so small, had it been the size of the camcorders in its previous generations (early and mid-2000s) I may have opted for a photo camera that could double into taking solid video.
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post #68 of 89 Old 07-08-2013, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delirium330 View Post

One of the biggest selling points was the size of the camcorder being so small, had it been the size of the camcorders in its previous generations (early and mid-2000s) I may have opted for a photo camera that could double into taking solid video.
This is a 2006 tape-based camera.

canon_elura100_inhand.jpg
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post #69 of 89 Old 07-08-2013, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
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correct, and the ones in the early 2000s were twice the size.
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post #70 of 89 Old 07-08-2013, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delirium330 View Post

correct, and the ones in the early 2000s were twice the size.

Sony had this back then.





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post #71 of 89 Old 07-08-2013, 03:13 PM - Thread Starter
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when someone makes this same statement 10 years from now are you going to post a picture of a GoPro or a PJ380? anyway, back to the topic at hand...
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post #72 of 89 Old 07-08-2013, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by August1991 View Post

Returning to the OP, I reckon that if someone at present primarily wants to take still pix, they're better to choose a good D-SLR, or a point-and-shoot. If the person wants mostly to record video, they're better with a good camcorder. Admittedly, a camcorder can do stills and a D-SLR can do videos. But in the long run, technology will change this.

In the long run, it is camcorders that will dominate the camera market and D-SLRs will disappear. Why? For the same reason that fly-by-wire planes now dominate aircraft, and Panavision no longer makes cameras and well, SLRs no longer exist.

Technology.

Quite an odd thing to say, really.

On a recent tour of New Zealand, on my tour group of 46 mostly retirees, , I only saw 2 camcorders ! The rest had a mixture of DSLRs, compacts & phones. I provided camera and it support for the group (for beers - and yes, I has a lot of beers...) for the inevitable "..can you help me, I have deleted all my photos...", or, "how do I shoot video on the DSLR I bought yesterday" ? There were probably slightly more DSLRs than other types.

Every year I see less and less camcorders in out local busy mall, in fact it is quite rare to see one now. Seems to be either phones or DSLRs now.
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post #73 of 89 Old 07-08-2013, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xfws View Post

I think we should expand this to consider content.

For example:
- Sports/kids/action: 60p camcorder, 60p P&S (?)
- Short, narrative films: 24p/30p DSLR, mirrorless, camcorder (?)
- Comedy/YouTube: 30p camcorder, DSLR, mirrorless (?)
- Vlog/reviews YouTube: Any and all w/ tripod (?)
- Tests of pretty flowers: the most expensive DSLR available to mankind that blurs every single pixel to smithereens...except the flower

re, "...the most expensive DSLR available to mankind that blurs every single pixel to smithereens..." - if this is true, then why are DSLRs used in many feature films, and camcorders are not ?
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post #74 of 89 Old 07-08-2013, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Pepster returns View Post

re, "...the most expensive DSLR available to mankind that blurs every single pixel to smithereens..." - if this is true, then why are DSLRs used in many feature films, and camcorders are not ?
It was a joke in reference to the fact that people sometimes buy very expensive cameras only to do tests with them; i.e. of flowers. wink.gif

The earlier part of my post was camcorder vs. DSLR regarding content, as I think this is missing from the discussion.

I listed my suggestions in order regarding certain content, with a question mark (?) denoting if others agree.
It sounds like you think DSLR should also be used for narratives.
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post #75 of 89 Old 07-08-2013, 09:08 PM
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Wait until the CANON 70D comes out next month. Canon are promising auto-focussing during video on 100+ existing Canon lenses. The new type STM lenses should have particularly smooth AF.

And, when the need arises, you can also take stills on the 70D (gasp, is that really true ?....) that will look like, well, look like DSLR stills.

Camcorder stills will always look like camcorder stills - that is the big difference.

Video IQ of the 70D is still to be seen, but will be better than the 7D.
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post #76 of 89 Old 07-09-2013, 02:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Pepster returns View Post

...why are DSLRs used in many feature films, and camcorders are not ?

Arri Alexas and RED Epics are camcorders, last I checked smile.gif And lots of indie features are being shot on Canon C500s, C300s and C100s - as well as Sony F5s, FS700s and FS100s.

This year's Palme d'Or winner at Cannes, for example, was shot on a Canon C300 camcorder.

I think you mean small-sensor consumer camcorders, do you not?

Cheers,

Bill
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post #77 of 89 Old 07-09-2013, 05:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Pepster returns View Post

re, "...the most expensive DSLR available to mankind that blurs every single pixel to smithereens..." - if this is true, then why are DSLRs used in many feature films, and camcorders are not ?
99% of feature films are done with cameras made for doing feature films and not DSLRs that are primarily designed as still cameras with an OVF. Avatar made a record $2,782,275,172 and was shot with Sony cameras.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_films_shot_in_digital

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Vince Pace, considered by many to be the 3D expert, today announced that Sony high-definition digital cinematography cameras were used to create the futuristic world featured in James Cameron
http://hdguru3d.com/sony-cameras-used-on-avatar/



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post #78 of 89 Old 07-09-2013, 03:37 PM
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I think you mean small-sensor consumer camcorders, do you not?
Yes. The reason I am posting in this forum is to share with others the benefits of shooting with a DLSR. and, DONT be afraid of a DLSR - it is not that hard - just start out in fully auto (mugs) mode, and progress to manual control as experience and confidence improves.

As a learning process, consumer camcorders go nowhere.

I only shoot with DSLRs now.
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post #79 of 89 Old 07-09-2013, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Pepster returns View Post

Yes. The reason I am posting in this forum is to share with others the benefits of shooting with a DLSR. and, DONT be afraid of a DLSR - it is not that hard - just start out in fully auto (mugs) mode, and progress to manual control as experience and confidence improves.

As a learning process, consumer camcorders go nowhere.

I only shoot with DSLRs now.

Condescending, really. Camcorders have manual mode, with as many controls as DSLRs for video that need to be mastered.

And no one is "afraid" of DSLRs; many who actually shoot video rather than stills do not see the benefits of carrying around a lot of lenses, lack of top-level stabilization, and the big bulk and the big expense. Posting a video you took might help your case so we can see the benefits that have convinced *you*.
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post #80 of 89 Old 07-09-2013, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Pepster returns View Post

Yes. The reason I am posting in this forum is to share with others the benefits of shooting with a DLSR. and, DONT be afraid of a DLSR - it is not that hard - just start out in fully auto (mugs) mode, and progress to manual control as experience and confidence improves.

As a learning process, consumer camcorders go nowhere.

I only shoot with DSLRs now.
What DSLRs do you shoot with ?
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post #81 of 89 Old 07-11-2013, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Pepster returns View Post

OK, the facts are:

The 2011 SUNDANCE winning and globally released film "LIKE CRAZY" was shot entirely on a CANON 7D DSLR http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Like_Crazy (I have the bluray - it looks fine).

Part of BLACK SWAN, a movie that received five Academy Award nominations and Portman won the Best Actress award for the film, as well as many other Best Actress awards in several guilds and festivals, while Aronofsky was nominated for Best Director. In addition, the film itself received a nomination for Best Picture, was shot on the CANON 7D DSLR some info here: http://www.alexandrosmaragos.com/2010/12/black-swan-canon-7d.html

and a huuge list of critically reviewed material was shot on CANON DSLRs - I can post this if any one really cares.

Camcorders are not used due to their tiny sensors, that limits creative DOF control, and cause poor performance in low light.

The cheap CANON 650D and 700D DSLRs and the CANON EOSM auto focus just fine on video using CANON STM lenses and these cameras will shoot great video in low light, and allow for great creative DOF control - a camcorder will not.

Although i am on camcorder side for my personal use i watched LIKE CRAZY" last night and the quality is realy good,better than i ever got out of my 550D,interesting how they get rid of the moire ailising and jaggies,which to some extent is on all footage.
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post #82 of 89 Old 07-11-2013, 02:03 AM
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Originally Posted by flintyplus View Post

Although i am on camcorder side for my personal use i watched LIKE CRAZY" last night and the quality is realy good,better than i ever got out of my 550D,interesting how they get rid of the moire ailising and jaggies,which to some extent is on all footage.

Mosaic Engineering makes an anti moire & aliasing filter that goes on the sensor for the 550D and 7D (as well as a few others). The 550D is capable of footage just as good....the video is identical to the 7D under the same circumstances. It's just knowing how to get it. Here's how: Light your shots, keep iso low (preferably at 200, 400 is fine, but try not to go over 800 unless you have no choice and not higher than 1,600 if you can help it), use higher quality & fast lenses (not the kit lens), use NDs and Polarizing filters when needed, install the Magic Lantern firmware hack for exposure and manual audio with Auto Gain Control off, use Cinestyle Picture styles for increased dynamic range and grade your footage well. biggrin.gif
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post #83 of 89 Old 07-11-2013, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by MTyson View Post

Mosaic Engineering makes an anti moire & aliasing filter that goes on the sensor for the 550D and 7D (as well as a few others). The 550D is capable of footage just as good....the video is identical to the 7D under the same circumstances. It's just knowing how to get it. Here's how: Light your shots, keep iso low (preferably at 200, 400 is fine, but try not to go over 800 unless you have no choice and not higher than 1,600 if you can help it), use higher quality & fast lenses (not the kit lens), use NDs and Polarizing filters when needed, install the Magic Lantern firmware hack for exposure and manual audio with Auto Gain Control off, use Cinestyle Picture styles for increased dynamic range and grade your footage well. biggrin.gif
Come on MT you know i aint getting into all that,i am happy with my cam,as i said the film looked good but not as sharp as my cam footage just nice colour but as you say it was the Mosaic Engineering wink.gif
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post #84 of 89 Old 07-11-2013, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Pepster returns View Post

The 2011 SUNDANCE winning and globally released film "LIKE CRAZY" was shot entirely on a CANON 7D DSLR http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Like_Crazy (I have the bluray - it looks fine).
Well, can YOU shoot a movie like this? Can YOU win Sundance? What if you had Arri ALEXA, will you be able to shoot a movie that others will watch, wilfully?

This movie was shot with two Hi8 cams - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genghis_Blues.

The movie won Sundance.

This is a nice article about the film and its creators: http://www.austinchronicle.com/screens/2003-10-10/181055/
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post #85 of 89 Old 07-11-2013, 12:46 PM
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How about a short film shot with an iPhone 4 ?


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post #86 of 89 Old 07-11-2013, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by flintyplus View Post

Come on MT you know i aint getting into all that,i am happy with my cam,as i said the film looked good but not as sharp as my cam footage just nice colour but as you say it was the Mosaic Engineering wink.gif

Well, mosaic engineering has nothing to do with the color. lol. I'm not saying for sure they used the filter.. I have not seen the movie. It's possible they just avoided certain patterns or things that would exhibit very noticeable moire/aliasing and/or used shallower focus and less wide deep focus shots more often to hide it. They may not have used the filter. I'd have to see it first to see what I think. Maybe being involved in the story one may start to miss any subtle image flaws when the rest of the image look great.
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post #87 of 89 Old 07-12-2013, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by MTyson View Post

Well, mosaic engineering has nothing to do with the color. lol. I'm not saying for sure they used the filter.. I have not seen the movie. It's possible they just avoided certain patterns or things that would exhibit very noticeable moire/aliasing and/or used shallower focus and less wide deep focus shots more often to hide it. They may not have used the filter. I'd have to see it first to see what I think. Maybe being involved in the story one may start to miss any subtle image flaws when the rest of the image look great.

No i expect color correction was used a lot like they do on all cinema films,but like i said it looked pretty good overal,i dont think i missed flaws eing overly engrossed in the story it was far from good in that respect.
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post #88 of 89 Old 07-17-2013, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Pepster returns View Post

DSLR kills Camcorders.

Why ?

To shoot good video, you need control over shutter speed, aperture (to control depth of field DOF), colour temp, custom ISO. Pretty much all DSLRs allow you to control these things. The Canon DSLRs are particularly video friendly in allowing you to adjust all functions whilst you are rolling. I am unaware of any consumer camcorders that give the user this control.

The new Magic LAnternfirm ware for canon dslrs also give RAW output and loads of pro functions. Low light performance is dictated by sensor size - Camcorders with their tiny sensors cannot compete here.

Cheap too.

And the glass for DSLRs is faaaar superioir.

I have just bought a HF-G30 (got it two days ago). My current DSLR is a 3Ti (with Magic Lantern installed), and my old camcorder is a HF-S10.

I did some side by side comparisons from my balcony today.

You *can* get good footage from the 3Ti, but it is a lot of work to set up and mostly it is markedly inferior to the footage from the HF-S10. It simply does not have the flexibility you need for video.

The footage from the HF-G30 is noticeably better than that for the HF-S10. It also allows full manual control and has much better stabilization than either the 3Ti or the HF-S10.

My ranking of the three cameras for video for general use would be as follows:

HF-G30 >> HF-S10 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>3Ti (it is not even close)
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post #89 of 89 Old 07-17-2013, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Tugela View Post

I have just bought a HF-G30 (got it two days ago). My current DSLR is a 3Ti (with Magic Lantern installed), and my old camcorder is a HF-S10.

I did some side by side comparisons from my balcony today.

You *can* get good footage from the 3Ti, but it is a lot of work to set up and mostly it is markedly inferior to the footage from the HF-S10. It simply does not have the flexibility you need for video.

The footage from the HF-G30 is noticeably better than that for the HF-S10. It also allows full manual control and has much better stabilization than either the 3Ti or the HF-S10.

My ranking of the three cameras for video for general use would be as follows:

HF-G30 >> HF-S10 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>3Ti (it is not even close)

Hi i got my HF-G30 2 days ago and am pulling my hair out as there are no spare batteries on sale anywhere over here in the [uk] it seems a nice cam though but what i hate is not having an instuction manual like my XA10,PC loaded ones are a pain in the but.
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