Shooting RAW video - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 14 Old 07-14-2013, 04:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Interesting article from RED SHARK "Preparing to shoot RAW"

http://www.redsharknews.com/post/item/885-preparing-to-shoot-raw?utm_source=www.lwks.com+subscribers&utm_campaign=b85a353dc7-RSN_Weekend_05July&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_079aaa3026-b85a353dc7-74789541

The more I read about RAW, the more I think the next camera will have to have RAW.

If the 5D3 can be made to reliably shoot 30fps RAW, I'd order one today. I understand the 5D3 will only do 24fps today, but tomorrow ?

And yes, the possibilities of RAW is exciting to me as a hobbyist.

Properly cleaning up low light, eg ISO6400 and beyond, should be a doddle, with the inherently fine grained noise signature of RAW. This will let me stop down in low light, ie, to control the DOF I want.
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post #2 of 14 Old 07-16-2013, 04:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepster returns View Post

Interesting article from RED SHARK "Preparing to shoot RAW"

http://www.redsharknews.com/post/item/885-preparing-to-shoot-raw?utm_source=www.lwks.com+subscribers&utm_campaign=b85a353dc7-RSN_Weekend_05July&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_079aaa3026-b85a353dc7-74789541

The more I read about RAW, the more I think the next camera will have to have RAW.

If the 5D3 can be made to reliably shoot 30fps RAW, I'd order one today. I understand the 5D3 will only do 24fps today, but tomorrow ?

RAW is great, especially if you like to have a lot of post creative control and flexibility. Magic Lantern has had the 5D3 shooting 30fps continuously for several days now. And shoots 60p continuously at 720p. Don't scoff at 720p RAW. Even 896x512p RAW is sharper and more detailed than the native 1920x1080p H.264 compressed video any of the Canon DLSRs shoot.

Here's the 5D3 RAW vs The $15,000+ Red Scarlet, which is the exact same sensor as the Red Epic used in most big movies today, including The Hobbit, Resident Evil: Retribution, Underworld: Awakening...etc: Be sure to enable "HD" on the bottom right of the videos.

http://vimeo.com/69803484

Here's the 5D3 RAW at 60FPS, slow-mo and low light:

http://vimeo.com/67714338

Here's the 5D3 shooting 1728x458p at 60FPS with slo-mo:

http://vimeo.com/68970165
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post #3 of 14 Old 07-16-2013, 05:15 AM
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Sadly, I can't afford the $3000 for a 5D3, but I'm really looking forward to seeing what the $995 Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera and CinemaDMG RAW can do smile.gif

My real hope is that the BPCC incentivizes Panasonic/Nikon/Canon/Sony to put RAW and headphone jacks in their sub-$1000 cameras sooner, rather than later.

Cheers,

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution
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post #4 of 14 Old 07-16-2013, 04:09 PM
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Years ago I spent many hours in my darkroom developing film and prints but now my workflow is to take out the SDXC card from of my VG900 and inserting it into the SDXC slot on my Core i7 MacBook Air and watching the videos when away from home or watching it on my HDTVs or 30" 2560x1600 monitor at home.
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post #5 of 14 Old 07-16-2013, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jogiba View Post

Years ago I spent many hours in my darkroom developing film and prints but now my workflow is to take out the SDXC card from of my VG900 and inserting it into the SDXC slot on my Core i7 MacBook Air and watching the videos when away from home or watching it on my HDTVs or 30" 2560x1600 monitor at home.
Simplicity is nice, but creative types like me lose a ton of flexibility in post with quite a bit less dynamic range and color information...which is critical for many things especially chroma keying. This isn't a big deal for most, but for some it's a huge deal. I like to have both RAW and non RAW options, personally. 5D MKIII gives you both options....and now it also DUAL ISO in RAW, which gives you Alexa level 14 stop dynamic range. The 5D3 has become pretty much the best overall biggest bang for you buck and most versatile cinema camera out.
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post #6 of 14 Old 07-17-2013, 06:00 AM
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I would say 2nd most versatile FF DSLR camera for shooting video after the 4K Canon 1D C . A true cinema camera does not use an OVF that is blank when recording video and has settings for cinema use.
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post #7 of 14 Old 07-17-2013, 08:32 AM
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I read the Red Shark article.

I'm missing something that is probably obvious, but what computer and software system do you use to edit RAW video?

Background is that I've spent a lot of money to get a smoothly running 1080p60 AVCHD system in place. I have the HD TVs, a media player, a couple cameras, an i7 computer and around 5 TB of storage. Parallel to the AVCHD tools, I have whats required to do RAW still photos. Those files can be 20 MB each.

There is no question in my mind that RAW still photos provide a wide latitude of creative opportunity. I'd enjoy the same latitude with video. Are there consumer priced options for RAW video post processing?

More background: In about 1982 I bought my first computer with two 180k floppies and a Z80 chip. It was $1800. It has taken 30 years (and countess dollars!) to progress to an i7 and a couple 3TB HDDs. The i7 laptop was $1800 too! Now that I'm 67, will I ever see RAW video capability in my condo graphics lab?
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post #8 of 14 Old 07-17-2013, 09:14 AM
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What are your full laptop specs?

Just an i7 and a 5TB HDD is not enough. Whats your i7? 2nd gen? 3rd gen? 37? 39?

I have a 3rd gen overclocked top of the range i7 with two of the best nvidias of the market and 16GB of RAM. I also have a fast 3TB HDD plus a fast SDD for the OS and my programs, including the video editing program. When im editing and grading AVCHD full hd videos I feel that I need something better.

Keep in mind that my computer is a top of the range computer, so I think that editing RAW in a consumer laptop would be a pain in the ass. Its not something for today. Our consumer hardware have to evolve more. Professionals use more than 64GB of ram, 4 nvidia quadro graphic cards etc. That doesnt make sense to the average user. HDD is also dated. SDDs are much better.

You can edit raw in a top of the range pc, but it will be slooooooooow
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post #9 of 14 Old 07-17-2013, 09:16 AM
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And yes, you will see raw video editing in a consumer laptop with great speeds. And my guess is that it wont take long. Probably 2 years or so
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post #10 of 14 Old 07-17-2013, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jogiba View Post

I would say 2nd most versatile FF DSLR camera for shooting video after the 4K Canon 1D C . A true cinema camera does not use an OVF that is blank when recording video and has settings for cinema use.

True cinema cameras do not shoot 8-bit color either. I'd say 14-bit color RAW vs 8-bit compressed color is much more important than the OVF. You can get a nice EVF or even buy an Odyssey 7 with the 5D3 and still cost far far less than the 1DC even if you throw in a Black Magic 4k Production camera with Global shutter in the mix. lol. You can own a 5D3, a BlackMagic Production Camera and a Black Magic Cinema Camera with speedbooster for the less than the 1DC. eek.gifcool.giftongue.gif


Just a list of things why I feel the 5D3 is a more versatile cinema camera than the 1DC.

5D3 shoots RAW 14-Bit Video. 1DC does not. 1DC shoots 8-bit color and compressed. You can't push 8-bit very far in post color grading without the image falling apart (ie; banding and such).
5D3 shoots HDR video when needed. 1DC does not.
5D3 shoots Dual ISO for 14 stop dynamic range (same as an Alexa) when needed. 1DC does not.
5D3 shoots low frame rates down to 1fps. 1DC does not. I have found this VERY VERY useful as I am a creative artist. The low frame rates are perfect for realistic super speed, because it gives a true motion blur, whereas sped up video does not, which is why it looks like sped up video. Low frame rates also allow you to achieve the Evil Dead first person camera flying through space quickly, the Stir of Echoes/House on Haunted Hill and The Ring jerky ghost movements as well as other creative effects. Not only that, but these low frame rates can be done at much higher resolutions and are far better in low light.
5D3 shoots RAW slow-mo. 1DC Does not.
5D3 has focus peaking. 1DC does not. IMO, this beats the OVF alone. Focus peaking is fantastic.
5D3 has false color. 1DC does not.
5D3 has an expose to the right RGB histogram that tells you how many stops you can expose to the right before clipping as well as auto expose to the right. It also tells you which channels are clipping. 1DC does not.
5D3 you can adjust white balance in post. 1DC you cannot.
5D3 you can adjust exposure in post. 1DC you cannot.
5D3 has 3x lens crop turning your lens into two lenses. 1DC does not. A Rokinon 24mm F1.4 cine lens with declicked aperture turns into a 72mm F1.4, the 35mm F1.4 turns into a 105mm F1.4 and the 85mm F1.4 turns into a 255mm F1.4. Saving one tons of money on fast great cine lenses.
5D3 has a 10x windowed zoom feature for focusing. 1DC does not.

The 1DC is a great camera, but it's way overpriced for the features it has and the features it lacks. It's claim to fame is the 4K resolution and great low light. 4k is overrrated, imo. Nearly EVERY delivery medium ends up back down to 1080p, and the 5D3 shooting RAW is neck and neck with the Red Scarlet there. If I were going 4k I would be going with the $3,995 Black Magic Production Camera that shoots 12-bit RAW with Global Shutter, not the 1DC.
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post #11 of 14 Old 07-17-2013, 04:56 PM
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Does the 5D MKIII shoot 1080p60 ?
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post #12 of 14 Old 07-17-2013, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedest View Post

What are your full laptop specs? ......You can edit raw in a top of the range pc, but it will be slooooooooow

ASUS G75VW-DS72
2.3GHz Intel Core i7-3610QM Quad-Core
16GB of DDR3 RAM
256GB SSD
750GB 7200 RPM HDD
2 WD External Drives
nVIDIA GeForce GTX 670M Graphics (3GB)
17.3" HD Led-Backlit Display
1920 x 1080 Native Resolution
Blu-ray Player and Burner
4 USB 3.0 Ports
Card Reader
Display (Monitor) Port, 15 Pin
Windows 7 Home Premium (64-bit)

My laptop was purchased for, and works well for, 1080p60 AVCHD and RAW photo processing.

My question was more generic, in that it may be far more difficult for a consumer to find a computer than a camcorder for RAW video. Is there an "off the shelf" consumer system for editing RAW video?
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post #13 of 14 Old 07-17-2013, 06:33 PM
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RAW photo is easy for our actual hardware

AVCHD is still kinda heavy, although it works well. Your notebook can deal with RAW video editing. It wont be extremely fast, but it will work decently. Most laptops nowadays wont be able to deal with RAW video though.

Thats what im talking about. RAW video can be implemented in consumer cameras, but the average user wont be able to work with it. Today is not the time for RAW video in "normal" cameras. Most users dont even take advantage of the superwhite technology and the "flat" videos that we have on most cameras nowadays. People want "cooked" videos.
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post #14 of 14 Old 07-17-2013, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jogiba View Post

Does the 5D MKIII shoot 1080p60 ?

Not yet, but perhaps when faster cards arrive. That's the one "disadvantage" (which I say loosely, because it's not much of one, because it's still RAW 14-bit, which is a bigger advantage). However, even 896x512p RAW is very clearly sharper and more detailed than the 1920x1080p H.264 compressed video the Canon DSLRs shoot natively. It does however, shoot 1280x720p 14-bit RAW at 60p, which is still much higher resolution and much more detailed than the H.264 1080p video it shoots natively. But people get so attached to marketing gimmicks. rolleyes.gif

Here's a 5D3 RAW 720p at 60FPS clip, with slo-mo and low light (just make sure the HD logo on the bottom is blue): Phenomenal.

http://vimeo.com/67714338
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