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post #1 of 62 Old 11-21-2013, 08:47 PM - Thread Starter
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First of all, before anyone start saying that I suck or that something is bad, I need to say that I have less than 1 year of experience with cameras and less than 6 months of experience with post processing.

The objective of that topic is to share what I've learned and also to learn and improve skills.

Since we are all entering a new era with RAW video at a consumer price, its interesting to discuss that. Mark was kind enough to share one of his DNGs so we can play.

The DNG is from the Blackmagic Pocket, a camera that features 4:4:4 color and 13 stops of dynamic range - and its important to take advantage of that.

He posted his first RAW video here: https://vimeo.com/79808736

And thats a frame grab from the video:



What my inexperienced but well trained eyes can see is:

- There are crushed shadows
- There are blown out highlights
- The midtones are too expanded
- The image looks soft

When the camera cooks the video for us, it tries to compress as much dynamic range as possible in the file. When we shoot RAW, the camera does nothing for us. It simply records all the sensor data in a file. So, to take advantage of that file, we have to know how to extract the information.

I am going to show how I use all the available dynamic range of a RAW file. If I had to guess I would say that in Mark's video you have something about 8 stops or less of visible dynamic range.

Once you get the hang of it, that process takes less than 30 seconds.



.............................................

The first thing that I do with a RAW file is to play with the exposure slider to see how much dynamic range I have. You can increase your exposure to see how much shadow info you have. So thats the amount of shadow info that we have. If you push the exposure higher you will bring noise, and we dont want that.



After that I bring the exposure all the way down to see how much highlight detail I have.



So now we know our limits, and the objective is to have all those shadows and highlights in the same frame. To achieve that we have to optimize our available dynamic range.

The first step is to recover all the highlights. To do that, simply slide the "HIGHLIGHT" slider all the day down. Dont worry about the exposure.



After that, go to the "EXPOSURE" slider and bring it down until you have no blown out highlights.



To avoid having those dull ugly videos that look old, we have to create real whites and real blacks in that scene - because it has real whites and real blacks. Some scenes dont have them, so we have to pay attention.

To set a real white, we click on the "WHITE" slider while holding the "ALT" key. The screen will go black. If you slide it to the right you will see some white spots appearing. Those are the real whites. Dont push them too much, or you will blow out the highlights. Just some tiny spots will do it.



Now we have to recover our shadows, because they are crushed. To do that we have to use the "SHADOW" slider. Just slide it to the opposite side of the "HIGHLIGHT" slider, and you will see your shadows being recovered. Recovering shadows can be tricky. Sometimes you can recover 100% of the shadows. Sometimes if you do that you create an ugly HDR look.



And the last part is to set the real blacks. Its the same thing as setting the real whites. Just click the "BLACKS" slider while holding the "ALT" key. The screen will go white. Slide it down until you see your real blacks. Dont push them too much either.



And thats it!! Now you can see and make use of the 13 stops of dynamic range of the camera.
.............................................



And thats my final adjust:



Expanding the dynamic range can also avoid that "oversaturated" look caused by the overload of the midtones. Here you can see less color bleeding.



Since I like to see detail, I have also increased the "local contrast". (sharpness)



* Remember that if you like to punch your videos with a heavy look, you can always increase your contrast, clarity etc after that.
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post #2 of 62 Old 11-22-2013, 01:47 AM
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Temperature 4400
Tint +15
Exposure -1.75
Contrast +25
Highlights -100
Shadows +100
Whites -15
Blacks +15
Clarity +20
Vibrance +20
Saturation 0

That gets it about right.

Slightly too much yellow on the left edge There is a weird gradient across the greens on the table, with the right part looking normal, but a distinct yellow cast of the left edge of the image.

Chromatic aberration is evident (you can see it on the white pole on the left, the button on the guy in the extreme right, the white backdrop to the female shopkeeper on the right etc etc). Probably wouldn't notice it on a TV though, so that is minor.

Apparent resolution is about 70% of the nominal resolution, which is typical for a debeyered image.
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post #3 of 62 Old 11-22-2013, 04:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Thats your view of the scene Tugela.
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Originally Posted by Tugela View Post

Temperature 4400

- How did you set the white ballance? What was your reference? It's a little bit cold. It looks like a "cold Berlin". If you use the real white spots as reference you will see that the WB should be more towards yellow.
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Whites -15
Blacks +15

If you dont use the "ALT" key while setting the whites and blacks you can create images that look good in your monitor but may look a bit "dull" in monitors that are well calibrated.
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Chromatic aberration is evident (you can see it on the white pole on the left, the button on the guy in the extreme right, the white backdrop to the female shopkeeper on the right etc etc). Probably wouldn't notice it on a TV though, so that is minor.

You have good eyes for CA. I havent noticed that. Now I see them. Pretty easy to correct them as you know. But I think that even for professional work thats almost negligible.
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Apparent resolution is about 70% of the nominal resolution, which is typical for a debeyered image.

How do you measure that? I have been playing with videos from a lot of different consumer cameras (NEX, EOS M, Canon DSLRs, GH3, V720, TM900, GW77 etc) and I get the impression that the BMPCC has one of the best resolutions. Even if it has only one "chip", remember that we are not dealing with compression and bandwith limitations.

* You were brave enough to push 100% of the shadows. I pushed something like 80%. I can see some noise on your video. I dont think you have an "ugly HDR look" but a denoiser would be necessary in that shot.
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post #4 of 62 Old 11-22-2013, 10:11 AM
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I adjusted white balance up until stuff started turning orange, then down a few notches until things started turning blue, then took a setting in between. I do not usually try to set off a white reference element because apparent natural whites are rarely actually white. I think it is more important to try to get a WB setting that doesn't mess with face skin hues, since the human eye is particularly sensitive to that. It is a fall day so you would not expect a warm hue. I think the color is probably reasonably accurate. After doing the other settings I redid the WB to make sure it still appeared correct.

You can judge resolution looking at the level of smearing in pixels on sharp edges. My Canon camcorder has cleaner edges than this image for example, but has less of the more subtle detail that is lost in compression. So, this image might look "sharper" because you see more information, but the resolution is less. That is probably mostly due to the chromatic aberration, with a better lens it might improve. In any case, a debeyered image is always going to have a significantly lower resolution than the nominal resolution simply because adjacent pixels share information.
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post #5 of 62 Old 11-22-2013, 11:01 AM
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This is all very useful for learning about grading. The two versions show that there may be a difficulty, however, in getting skin tones looking correct and the overall coloration right. As a person who was there, theDest's scene looks more correct, but not the skin tones, which are too yellow. The Tugela version seems too pale overall, but the skin tones seem close to natural.

Using Lightroom is simply not going to be a practical way to edit RAW video in any case, however. All the work above was done for one frame (although it's not hard to synch all the frames in one sequence/folder) and working with the RAW then requires exporting as jpegs or tiffs and then importing them in an editor.

The free Resolve 10 Lite imports each RAW folder of dngs (frames) and treats each folder as a video clip automatically. So you have video right away and a timeline. The color controls are supposed to be the best. It thus simplifies the workflow and potentially has better color controls. There are also LUTs available that give a good starting point in terms of color from the flat dng's. You can color in Resolve and render a final video

Or: One workflow with Resolve is to color grade in Resolve, render the RAW as an intermediate set of proxy video clips, read the exported clips into your editor of choice (Vegas, Final Cut) and then after your edit is done you do not render the video you instead create/export an xml file. That xml file (which records all the edits) is imported back into Resolve, which then applies them to the original rawdng's. You then do any final grading and render in Resolve. So you still are making a first-generation compressed video; your editor was working with proxy files.

I am experimenting with Resolve now and may try regrading the video RAW clips using that and Vegas Pro.

Using Resolve alone is then just like editing regular compressed video, making working with RAW just as easy as with any video (once you have mastered how to grade).
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post #6 of 62 Old 11-22-2013, 04:13 PM
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I am following your thinking on this closely, Mark. My NLE is Vegas - and as I think I've said before, I am trying to decide whether to buy Lightroom and use the workflow you're using now - or to buy inexpensive OSIRIS LUTs and try to make Resolve work on my finicky Windows 7 machine.

Thanks again for blazing the trail.

Bill
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post #7 of 62 Old 11-22-2013, 04:40 PM
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This free LUT has gotten excellent reviews. I am trying it out and so far it looks useful.

http://www.captainhook.co.nz/blackmagic-cinema-camera-lut/
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post #8 of 62 Old 11-22-2013, 08:34 PM
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Resolve 10 Lite it is! RAW is now doable

From RAW clips to finished video, with audio, in one program (no intermediates needed): import the folders (clips) right from the sd card, place them on the timeline with audio (join each video and audio clip), color grade, and render a video (very fast, almost real time). Done. No different than editing any video clips, and you can play the RAW clips on the timeline. LUTs are available to get the color started.

This example was done in less than 5 minutes (learning the software took longer).

The original 220Mbps 10-bit, 4:2:2 video that I made from the RAW clips and uploaded to Vimeo is downloadable. And the color is better than the first attempts using Lightroom. But there is more to learn.

The key thing is now shooting RAW is no different than shooting regular (dynamic-range, color-limited. highly compressed) video.


https://vimeo.com/80123487

The software is free.
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post #9 of 62 Old 11-23-2013, 07:50 AM
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Nice work Mark! Thank you for showing it.
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post #10 of 62 Old 11-23-2013, 09:57 AM
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Thanks, Mark. This what I was waiting to hear. And my computer found the files it was missing, so I'm now running Resolve 10 Lite.

Next step is a RAW-capable Sandisk card and some LUTs smile.gif

Thanks again,

Bill
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post #11 of 62 Old 11-25-2013, 01:27 PM
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As of 4 PM today, my Blackmagic Raw video made with Resolve Lite has been played 749 times and gotten two 'likes'. This is the largest single-day play statistic for any video I have ever posted. And it is clearly not because of the quality of the video, but because of the interest in raw-based video (and perhaps because it is one of the few examples with actual color people can recognize).
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post #12 of 62 Old 11-25-2013, 04:29 PM
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I think it is because you say in the video description that color correction was done "in a few minutes". There are hundreds, maybe thousands, of us out here trying to figure this color grading thing out. That simple phrase gives us all hope smile.gif
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post #13 of 62 Old 11-25-2013, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

As of 4 PM today, my Blackmagic Raw video made with Resolve Lite has been played 749 times and gotten two 'likes'. This is the largest single-day play statistic for any video I have ever posted. And it is clearly not because of the quality of the video, but because of the interest in raw-based video (and perhaps because it is one of the few examples with actual color people can recognize).
Congratulations! I've followed and learned from your work for a couple years. It is fun to see 750 others appreciate it too!

As a Lightroom junkie, I'm enthralled by your transition from the discipline of perfect control during recording to creative control in post processing. You are beginning to make video for the mind's eye, not the computer's standard.

Have fun with it!

Bill
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post #14 of 62 Old 11-27-2013, 08:15 AM
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RAW Low-Light Video with the BMPCC and edited in Resolve: Shopping in Grand Central Terminal

Shot using RAWdng, graded and rendered in DaVinci Resolve Lite. 108030p, 180 degree shutter. ISO800.

Panasonic 20mm f1.7 lens (non-IS, as is evident in a few shots).

Grand Central Terminal is very dark. Worse, it has many small areas of bright light - sun-lit windows (during the day) and small, bright backlit signs. Almost any view will have bright parts and very dark parts. It is a real challenge for dynamic range. The last scene in the video is the biggest challenge - a dark room with large bright white lit signs in the background.

The Vimeo version, from where you can download the 35Mbps .mov file (h264) with uncompressed audio:

https://vimeo.com/80463905

The Youtube version:

I uploaded a 235Mbps video to Youtube (as it has no GB limit), so the original here is of higher quality. Select 1080p.

Note that with RAW, you compress anyway you want - you can do high bitrates without hacks.
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post #15 of 62 Old 11-27-2013, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
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I love it!

- I LOVE the colors.

- The dynamic range is so great that static shots like that look like pictures. If it wasnt for you shaking in that one I would say that you were cheating with pictures in your videos.



- Why are you shaking so much with a 60mm lens? Is it because of the size of the combo? Is it too small? I can shoot up to 100mm with no OIS.

- How do you feel about having an iphone-size camera (BMPCC+pancake) with better low light performance than a 5DMK3? biggrin.gif

- Are you using luts? You are getting real nice results, but if you dont mind: use them to learn how to grade, but dont forget to learn the basic concepts. Once you learn them you wont need LUTs anymore and you will get the best results.
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post #16 of 62 Old 11-27-2013, 11:37 AM
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Awesome grade, Mark. Thanks for sharing.

Bill
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post #17 of 62 Old 11-27-2013, 03:05 PM
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Hey, I think the LX7 shoots RAW Photo, doesn't it?

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post #18 of 62 Old 11-27-2013, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
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Hey, I think the LX7 shoots RAW Photo, doesn't it?

Yes. You are in the wrong thread - this is about RAW video.
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post #19 of 62 Old 11-27-2013, 03:58 PM
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Sorry.. :cool:

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post #20 of 62 Old 11-28-2013, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
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For inspirational purposes, here are some videos that can only be done if you own a camera capable of RAW 4:4:4 video with high dynamic range:


https://vimeo.com/73141804

- PERFECT example of high dynamic range and 4:4:4 color. Try to get those colors in 4:2:0. No way!
- a REALLY well made video. Great compositions, editing etc


https://vimeo.com/71692234

- that scene @ 00:59 has so much impact!! Its simply stunning
- in the end of the video the way that the camera handles the blues of the beach and the gradations is simply perfect


https://vimeo.com/66765786

- after 00:35 the scenes are so beautifully rendered that they look like stills


https://vimeo.com/66362000

- another great example of 4:4:4 and perfect gradations.


https://vimeo.com/72133452

- another comparison between h264 and RAW. I think he has oversharpened the RAW. In fact, it looks all overcooked. But even like that it looks SOOO much better than h264.
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post #21 of 62 Old 11-30-2013, 07:01 PM
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A Holiday RAW Video from the BMPCC

This was a test whether I could use the BMPCC in RAW run and gun, inside and outdoors, just like any other video camera - shoot, edit, upload using one editor. Shot yesterday and edited in just as much time as I usually spend editing (not enough!).

Besides wanting to see the video quality and workflow, I wanted again to test the audio.

Everything seems fine, and Resolve is not difficult (I know now how to edit and grade), and render times are actually fast (about 1/2 the frame rate on a second-generation i5 with cheap CUDA card).

So, I am going to take the BMPCC to China, not the EOS M. The video is less creamy (less bokeh), but it enables shots I could never make with any video camera. And it's no more work, though I will not be able to make videos while in the field. There is less danger of not getting the shot with RAW. And it's really pocketable - fits in my coat pocket with lens (I will have the 12-35mm f2.8 IS only, so no wildlife shots or sneak peaks at Chinese officials).

One issue is how to store all the GB's of RAW files while traveling. I have the Nexto DI 2730G, which copies, with a thorough bit-check, sd cards onto a 500GB file without the need for a computer, or even AC.

The downloadable video:

https://vimeo.com/80694451

The original from the RAW is 53Mbps, with uncompressed, 24-bit audio.

A frame grab:



And, as I become more skilled in post, I can always go back to the RAW files and make a better video!

Youtube version:

Select 1080p.
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post #22 of 62 Old 12-01-2013, 02:17 AM
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For me your EOS M films have a more pleasing color,buts that just my opinion.With the BMPC having better dynamic range and resolution could be the reason camera shake shows much worse than the EOS M films.
As i cant see myself ever not being too lazy to spend ages grading my footage its a good job everyone is not so,Good luck with the camera.
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post #23 of 62 Old 12-01-2013, 02:26 AM
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Again, very nice grade, Mark. I wonder about the jitter, though. I'm not getting that from the BMPCC with the Oly 11-22 (no IS) or the Panasonic 14-140 OIS. I will post some handheld ProRes stuff tonight - maybe it's there and I'm not seeing it in the Vegas preview window. I'll let you know in a few minutes.

Bill
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post #24 of 62 Old 12-01-2013, 03:23 AM
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OK - I know this is a RAW thread, but I wanted to see if I had the jitter that we're seeing here.

This is a little side-by-side I shot between GH3 Quicktime and BMPCC ProRes last month in Hawaii. I recorded natural sound because I know Mark likes it smile.gif



All of this is handheld, with the P&C pistol grip and Cavision MHE52 LCD loupe held up to my eye to stabilize the BMPCC. I do see a little jitter in the BMPCC shot of the hat and drink on the table (and the lens was full wide at 11mm), but there seems to be less of it at longer focal lengths, to include the 93mm telephoto shot at the end. Of course, the wide shots were with the non-IS Oly 11-22, while the telephoto shot was with the stabilized Panasonic 14-140.

I do remember being conscious of the need to control my breathing and hold the camera very steady during that last shot...

I will have to shoot more with the Pocket Cam to see if it's me, non-IS lenses, the camera, or something else that is the source of the jitter....

Hope this is helpful to everyone,

Bill
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post #25 of 62 Old 12-01-2013, 03:30 AM
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It is shaking pretty bad, as though there is no stabilization at all.

You might be able to fix it by running it through a warp stabilizer.
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post #26 of 62 Old 12-01-2013, 03:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brunerww View Post

OK - I know this is a RAW thread, but I wanted to see if I had the jitter that we're seeing here.

This is a little side-by-side I shot between GH3 Quicktime and BMPCC ProRes last month in Hawaii. I recorded natural sound because I know Mark likes it smile.gif

The first camera in the paired sequence was better. Both of them have a fair bit of camera shake though, but not the jerky movements Mark's video had.
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post #27 of 62 Old 12-01-2013, 04:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Mark, its really amazing how "mature" those images look compared to any other ordinary camera. They can make ordinary scenes look like scenes from hollywood movies. I hope you are having fun with the camera.

Yes there is shaking in the video. Are you using the 14-42mm Pana lens? Because if it is, we may know the reason. The only lenses with OIS that will work on the BMPCC are the ones that have the button to switch the OIS on/off IN THE LENS.Blackmagic doesnt have the algorythms to make the OIS work natively, so you have to switch it on manually in the lens. So if your lens doesnt have the physical switch, the OIS wont work.

Example:

Those 2 lenses have OIS, but they wont work on the BMPCC

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/682980-REG/Panasonic_Lumix_G_Vario_14_42mm.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/818962-REG/Panasonic_H_PS14042S_Lumix_G_X_Vario.html (the switch on this one is for the zoom)

That one has OIS and it will work, because you can turn it on IN THE LENS.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/865111-REG/Panasonic_H_HS12035_Lumix_G_X_Vario.html

you have to look for the "MEGA OIS" or "POWER OIS" switches.
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post #28 of 62 Old 12-01-2013, 04:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

A Holiday RAW Video from the BMPCC


One issue is how to store all the GB's of RAW files while traveling. I have the Nexto DI 2730G, which copies, with a thorough bit-check, sd cards onto a 500GB file without the need for a computer, or even AC.

WOW! I wasnt aware of a device like that! A pretty cheap solution for working with RAW! I wonder if there are other similar devices with better prices. I'll look for them, and that way one single card will be enough for my holidays


EDIT: It was fast. Will that thing work?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/681428-REG/Digital_Foci_P19_500_PST_251_Photo_Safe_II.html

500GB of storage for 150 bucks is like the holy grail for RAW video. I just dont know if it will be able to copy everything
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post #29 of 62 Old 12-01-2013, 05:58 AM
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WOW! I wasnt aware of a device like that! A pretty cheap solution for working with RAW! I wonder if there are other similar devices with better prices. I'll look for them, and that way one single card will be enough for my holidays


EDIT: It was fast. Will that thing work?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/681428-REG/Digital_Foci_P19_500_PST_251_Photo_Safe_II.html

500GB of storage for 150 bucks is like the holy grail for RAW video. I just dont know if it will be able to copy everything

That one is no good:

1. No sdxc. Required for RAW.

2. No exFat. Required for RAW.

3. At 3.5 minutes per GB, it would take, well you figure it out, to copy a 64GB card (for 18 minutes of video). The Nexto DI is 40 seconds a GB.
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post #30 of 62 Old 12-01-2013, 06:03 AM
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Mark, its really amazing how "mature" those images look compared to any other ordinary camera. They can make ordinary scenes look like scenes from hollywood movies. I hope you are having fun with the camera.

Yes there is shaking in the video. Are you using the 14-42mm Pana lens? Because if it is, we may know the reason. The only lenses with OIS that will work on the BMPCC are the ones that have the button to switch the OIS on/off IN THE LENS.Blackmagic doesnt have the algorithms to make the OIS work natively, so you have to switch it on manually in the lens. So if your lens doesnt have the physical switch, the OIS wont work.

Example:

Those 2 lenses have OIS, but they wont work on the BMPCC

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/682980-REG/Panasonic_Lumix_G_Vario_14_42mm.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/818962-REG/Panasonic_H_PS14042S_Lumix_G_X_Vario.html (the switch on this one is for the zoom)

That one has OIS and it will work, because you can turn it on IN THE LENS.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/865111-REG/Panasonic_H_HS12035_Lumix_G_X_Vario.html

you have to look for the "MEGA OIS" or "POWER OIS" switches.

No, this is what Black Magic lists as compatible and IS (http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/au/support/detail/faqs?sid=27541&pid=34849&os=win):

•Panasonic Lumix G X Vario 12-35mm f/2.8 (with stabilization)
•Panasonic Lumix G X Vario 14-42mm f/3.5-5.6 (with stabilization)

The bottom one is what was used. I suspect BM is wrong, but that is what they say (remember, the OIS can be on by default, and you just cannot turn it off given the lack of algorithms).

I will be using the 12-35mm.
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