Sony 4K Handycam FDR-AX100 thread - Page 122 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3631 of 3657 Old 01-04-2016, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott MS View Post
Agreed. Anything less than 50/60p would be a pointless improvement. I am hoping for a more powerful processor and true 4k/60p. That would be a first for a camera of this size and price range.
Would people wait until announcement tomorrow before purchasing current version of ax100?
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post #3632 of 3657 Old 01-04-2016, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by gledbetter View Post
Would people wait until announcement tomorrow before purchasing current version of ax100?

I would personally wait because there will be a 4K announcement of some kind. Sony's CES 2016 press kit shows a camcorder graphic. Of course, we won't know until tomorrow if this is an improved AX100 or an improved AX33.

Last edited by Scott MS; 01-04-2016 at 02:25 PM.
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post #3633 of 3657 Old 01-05-2016, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott MS View Post
I would personally wait because there will be a 4K announcement of some kind. Sony's CES 2016 press kit shows a camcorder graphic. Of course, we won't know until tomorrow if this is an improved AX100 or an improved AX33.
Pretty sure we still don't know...no real details given at the keynote. Maybe something will be released that gives more details.

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post #3634 of 3657 Old 01-05-2016, 06:53 PM
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From Sony's press release, the new FDR-AX53 with a sensor that is 1.6 times greater than the FDR-AX33 . . .


Quote:
The new FDR-AX53 4K Handycam® camcorder is equipped with a new 20x optical zoom ZEISS® lens as well as a high-sensitivity image sensor with pixel size approximately 1.6 times greater than in the current 4K Handycam model*1. The FDR-AX53 also features Balanced Optical SteadyShot™ technology, which suppresses blur during all shooting modes – from wide shots to close-ups – and enables crisp, high resolution image capture in 4K even when shooting from a distance. It is also fit with a new Fast Intelligent AF and a new microphone structure that records high stereo sound and faithfully captures the original audio. In every sense, from image clarity to audio quality, the FDR-AX53 is a sizable leap forward.
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post #3635 of 3657 Old 01-05-2016, 07:03 PM
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post #3636 of 3657 Old 01-05-2016, 07:03 PM
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From Sony's press release, the new FDR-AX53 with a sensor that is 1.6 times greater than the FDR-AX33 . . .
Wonder how much and if it does 60p?
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post #3637 of 3657 Old 01-05-2016, 07:15 PM
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NOT 60p. Just confirmed in post-show Q&A.

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post #3638 of 3657 Old 01-05-2016, 08:06 PM
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So the FDR-AX100 has a 1" sensor.


The FDR-AX33 has a 0.307" sensor.


And now the FDR-AX53 has basically a 0.5" sensor and the BOSS stabilization. (Update. It has a 0.4" 16:9 sensor vs the 0.3" 4:3 sensor of the AX33 -- thus the 1.6x improvement in the area where light is captured.)


Personally, I would have like to have seen a step forward in picture quality and speed rather than improving the lower-end model.


Also disappointing is that Panasonic released an updated Prosumer 4K camcorder and it still has 30p. I'd like the option for 60p even if the files are large.

Last edited by Scott MS; 01-05-2016 at 08:17 PM.
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post #3639 of 3657 Old 01-05-2016, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott MS View Post
So the FDR-AX100 has a 1" sensor.


The FDR-AX33 has a 0.307" sensor.


And now the FDR-AX53 has basically a 0.5" sensor and the BOSS stabilization.


Personally, I would have like to have seen a step forward in picture quality rather than improving the lower-end model.
Was the AX100 a 4:3 or 16:9 sensor?

I didn't even know that was a limitation of the AX33 until tonight. The AX53 is 16:9 and the pixels are larger for better low light operation.

I timed my purchase of the AX33 so I could return it under the extended return policy at Best Buy if a decent upgrade was offered. No way I'm keeping the AX33 for less than $200 less.

Its not 60p, but its a good price point for what you are getting.

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post #3640 of 3657 Old 01-05-2016, 08:11 PM
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More info:

AX33 has a 4:3 sensor.


Sony's AX100 has a 1" sensor measuring 15.86 x 13.2 millimeters, which is even more square than 4:3. The AX53 should be a definite improvement over the AX33 and it may even be close to the AX100. The BOSS system is superior to the AX100's stabilization.




Quote:
Boosting its role as an event-focused camcorder, Sony significantly upgrades on its top-of-the-line 4K consumer model, the AX33, with the new $1,000 (AU$1,400, £680) FDR-AX53. Though it looks similar to the older model, the AX53 incorporates a new lens, new sensor and new microphone -- pretty much the main elements which define video quality.
Sony has switched from a 1/2.3-inch 4:3 aspect-ratio sensor to a 1/2.5-inch 16:9 version; in previous models the camcorder cropped into the middle 8 megapixels for shooting video, which means smaller pixels subsetted from a higher-resolution sensor. The newer model uses the entire 8-megapixel sensor, which has larger pixels. The result is (according to Sony) much improved low-light video quality.
In addition to doubling the optical zoom range from 10x to 20x, Sony has changed the optical construction by introducing an advanced aspherical lens (which makes it smaller). It also uses a faster autofocus algorithm and a new five-directional microphone designed for less sound bouncing around the capsule.
New features include high-framerate recording to create slow-motion HD video and automatic 4K timelapse creation.
It's expected to ship in March.

Last edited by Scott MS; 01-05-2016 at 08:17 PM.
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post #3641 of 3657 Old 01-05-2016, 08:17 PM
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Besides possible heating issues, another reason to not have 60p is because it would take away a little bit of the value from the Panasonic X1000, DVX200 and the Sony AX1, Z100. I guess we'll have to wait for CES 2017. With that said, Panasonic and Sony have not revealed successors to the GH4 and AX100 yet. Don't think they'd get 60p it but it would definitely be nice.

One thing to keep in mind is that the AX53 appears to have a lens that starts at f/2.0 while the AX100 has a lens that starts at f/2.8. Faster lens on 1 side, bigger chip on the other side. It would be interesting comparing the low light quality between the two.

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post #3642 of 3657 Old 01-05-2016, 09:34 PM
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This is good news for me cuz that just further verifies that my gamble on getting an open box AX100 for $1071 instead of waiting for it's possible successor paid off!

The AX53 has a slightly smaller sensor physically than the AX33, but it has more active pixels on that sensor and is a 16:9 ratio. I like the BOSS stabilization.... but I'd rather have the AX100's bigger sensor and manual controls.

Since I mainly shoot on a tripod, BOSS would mainly only help me with any minor vibrations and shakes while zoomed all the way in on far away subjects. I rarely do handheld shooting with a camcorder. If I wanna do that, I shoot with my iPhone 6s Plus. It has pretty decent OIS on it, does 4K 30fps/1080P 60fps and is smaller and lighter in my hand.

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post #3643 of 3657 Old 01-05-2016, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott ms View Post
the fdr-ax33 has a 0.307" sensor.
1 / 2.3'' ~ 0.43''
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post #3644 of 3657 Old 01-05-2016, 10:19 PM
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1 / 2.3'' ~ 0.43''
You are correct. I mistakenly read something on CNET and believed it. I converted the 7.8mm to inches.


Quote:
the smaller 20-megapixel 1/2.3-inch (7.8mm) sensor it uses
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post #3645 of 3657 Old 01-06-2016, 05:04 AM
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This is good news for me cuz that just further verifies that my gamble on getting an open box AX100 for $1071 instead of waiting for it's possible successor paid off!
LOL - I'm right there with you, though mine was $30 more than yours.

I'm very impressed with the AX-100 after having shot some daylight footage a couple days ago. I had some people watching the footage and the summary everyone gave was "oooohhh!"

I'll be posting some video to YouTube as soon as I get a chance to combine the shots and trim the excess padding.

For a little teaser, here's a shot I tossed up there while testing a budget jib I purchased:


The jib was only semi-satisfying, but the video from the camera was very pleasing.

The video is an upload of the shot straight out of the camera - no editing, conversion or color correction.

Last edited by NetworkTV; 01-06-2016 at 07:12 AM.
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post #3646 of 3657 Old 01-06-2016, 11:15 AM
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LOL - I'm right there with you, though mine was $30 more than yours.

I'm very impressed with the AX-100 after having shot some daylight footage a couple days ago. I had some people watching the footage and the summary everyone gave was "oooohhh!"

I'll be posting some video to YouTube as soon as I get a chance to combine the shots and trim the excess padding.

For a little teaser, here's a shot I tossed up there while testing a budget jib I purchased:



The jib was only semi-satisfying, but the video from the camera was very pleasing.

The video is an upload of the shot straight out of the camera - no editing, conversion or color correction.
Yeah! I got mine in September and had originally planned to wait on CES 2016 before deciding to buy one. But the price was too low to resist. I was BOTH dreading an AX100 successor (cuz I had just bought one) and cheering for one (cuz I want to see 60fps and affordable camcorders advance in technology). I guess we await CES 2017!

But if you really think about it, higher-end camcorder models (the AX100 qualifies as an entry-level priced Prosumer cam) tend to take longer for replacements. Part of the reason is because they have features and specs that give them longer legs than consumer cams (BOSS being the exception and reverse case). The other reason is since higher-end cams are more expensive and don't sell as much as consumer cams, they need to stay on the market longer to recoup their R&D costs.

If you haven't already.... be sure to download the AX100 v3.0 firmware update that improves the auto-focus and adds a 100Mb recording bit rate. Unless I'm gonna record some super-long event where I need to get the most 4K recording times out of my two 64GB cards (I would only get bigger cards if I was gonna record 4K for many hours continuously non-stop), I always record at 100Mbps for maximum quality even if what I'm filming needs it or not. Yes the file sizes are big, but you can always render them down to a lower bit rate (and thus smaller file size) later if you want.

The reason I went with two 64GB cards ..Vs.. one 128GB card was peace of mind. Memory cards have been known to completely fail or corrupt files for some unlucky individuals. If one card fails, you lose all 128GB of your video. With two 64GB cards, at least I have a better chance that half of that 128GB of recorded video is still salvageable. I could go with four 32GB cards for better odds at keeping a higher percent of my total footage salvageable. But 64GB is the sweet spot for both a longer recording time (convenience) and more salvageable video (peace of mind).

For maximum peace of mind... you gotta buy a high-end cam with two memory card slots that allows for mirrored recording to both cards at the same time.

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post #3647 of 3657 Old 01-06-2016, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GS kid View Post
If you haven't already.... be sure to download the AX100 v3.0 firmware update that improves the auto-focus and adds a 100Mb recording bit rate. Unless I'm gonna record some super-long event where I need to get the most 4K recording times out of my two 64GB cards (I would only get bigger cards if I was gonna record 4K for many hours continuously non-stop), I always record at 100Mbps for maximum quality even if what I'm filming needs it or not. Yes the file sizes are big, but you can always render them down to a lower bit rate (and thus smaller file size) later if you want.
Where do you find the listing for what firmware version is in the unit?

The reason I ask is I already have the option for the 100MB bit rate. So, if that only happens with V3, then I already have it. On the other hand, if it's also in V2, I'll get the V3 firmware to see if it kick starts the autofocus.
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post #3648 of 3657 Old 01-06-2016, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post
Where do you find the listing for what firmware version is in the unit?

The reason I ask is I already have the option for the 100MB bit rate. So, if that only happens with V3, then I already have it. On the other hand, if it's also in V2, I'll get the V3 firmware to see if it kick starts the autofocus.
If you have the 100Mb option, then indeed you have the v3.0 firmware already and are good to go. I had to upgrade mine when I got it.

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post #3649 of 3657 Old 01-06-2016, 12:40 PM
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If you have the 100Mb option, then indeed you have the v3.0 firmware already and are good to go. I had to upgrade mine when I got it.
I just bought mine less than 2 weeks ago on an open box deal, so it's possible that either

a) the units are now shipping with 3.0
or
b) it was upgraded prior to being returned by another customer or while being used as a demo unit at the store

Either way, that was one of the first settings I checked and activated...
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post #3650 of 3657 Old 01-06-2016, 07:23 PM
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Glad I got mine nearly 2 years ago, rather than waiting for features that still haven't arrived.
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post #3651 of 3657 Old 01-07-2016, 07:57 PM
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As promised earlier, here's some footage I shot outdoors this week. It was late afternoon, going into evening, so the footage ranges from bright sunlight to sunset. There was also a storm headed through the area that ended up missing us, so there were some angry clouds in some of the footage. The footage also includes one shot with the camera pointing right at the sun with buildings in the foreground to really get a sense of the contrast range. Near the end, when the big old houses are shown, I was using a bit of gain to maintain good video levels, so you'll notice some crawl in the details in the decorative architecture. It's especially evident in the shadows of the large porch of the house near the end.

The two rack focus shots were done manually using a clamp-on focusing lever and "Post-It" brand labeling tape to guide me to the correct ring positions.

I had to actually upload the footage twice because Youtube created some artifacting in the last shot the first time - the image literally fell apart midway through. It's better, but there's definitely a few spots where their compression creates some issues in the video in certain spots:


I hope you enjoy it. The first shot is the same one from the teaser. The tapping noise you hear in the audio is from the flag pole I was standing near. The wind was whipping the hoist cable and smacking it against the pole. In one shot, you'll actually hear the bells from two different churches competing against each other.

My next goal is to set up some test shots in my studio to test color, contrast and close-up detail rendering. I also want to do some testing of slow motion and other features. Hopefully I'll have something in the next couple of weeks as time allows.
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post #3652 of 3657 Old 01-07-2016, 10:27 PM
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Here's a video for those that want a good look at the AX-100 stabilization, especially in low light.

There are three shots using the three stabilization modes: Off, Normal and Active. I stood across the room, using the whole range of optical zoom. Special thanks to Clifford, the Big Red Dog for appearing as my subject. The lighting was from a 60 watt floor lamp just above and to the right of the subject. The lens was wide open and gain was +9db. I used manual focus to keep it from wandering, especially during the shakiness during the first shot.

Active appears to use a smaller portion of the sensor to allow for electronic stabilization, so the image appears a bit less crisp and there is a bit more low light noise. It also means the image is a bit more zoomed in using that mode. I actually had to zoom out a bit to get a more comparable view to the other shots.

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Last edited by NetworkTV; 01-07-2016 at 10:33 PM.
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post #3653 of 3657 Old 01-09-2016, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
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If you have the 100Mb option, then indeed you have the v3.0 firmware already and are good to go. I had to upgrade mine when I got it.
I finally found the version screen and it is indeed 3.0.

I also found the handy-dandy screen that breaks down how much space you've used and how much is available (same general area). I just wish it gave data for all resolutions/frame rates, etc rather than just the resolution selected. So, when in 4K mode, it gives data for 30p both 100Mb/s and 60Mb/s as well as 24p at 100Mb/s and 60Mb/s. It will not list 1080p or 720p options unless you switch the record resolution to those.

Another nit: I hate that you can't view and play back all videos regardless of resolution settings no matter what the recording resolution is set at. It's very annoying to have to keep switching back and forth to view things you shot at 720p, 1080p or 4k. While I mostly shoot in 4K, there are times when workflow is easier shooting in the final output resolution, especially when a system doesn't play well with the advanced codecs. Plus, you can't do high frame rates in 4K.
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post #3654 of 3657 Old 01-09-2016, 02:26 PM
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Is it possible that the camcorder companies are not releasing 60p yet, because most TVs only have HDMI 1.4 and 2.0 is required for 60p?
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post #3655 of 3657 Old 01-09-2016, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chenderson2 View Post
Is it possible that the camcorder companies are not releasing 60p yet, because most TVs only have HDMI 1.4 and 2.0 is required for 60p?
I don't think most 4K TVs are only HDMI 1.4. Its most likely the reasons mentioned previously in threads here...too much to do in too small of package (heat), and to not compete against prosumer models.

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post #3656 of 3657 Old 01-20-2016, 01:40 AM
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i have been shooting all kinds of stuff with the AX100. To some this camcorder may seems like a toy since it doesn't have an interchangeable lens feature.

This video is shot in xavcs 1080 using the ronin M without post stabilization or reframing:

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Last edited by Will Dylan; 01-21-2016 at 11:12 AM.
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post #3657 of 3657 Old Yesterday, 08:48 PM
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Indoor Sports - Gymnastics

My 7D just conked out.

Looking for a dedicated video camera with be focus tracking. The 2 video camera's that I'm looking at are the AX53 and AX100. I have read through a lot of the forum here and other place.

Gymnastics is relatively stationary except for vault and floor. For vault and floor will the focus track the gymnast. I will be stationary either hand held or mono/tripod.

I am not experienced with video cameras outside my 7D. Experienced photographer though.

For low light fast indoor sports which would you buy at this point in time? Does the larger sensor get offset by slower lens so there is not difference is effective speed.
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