Sony 4K Handycam FDR-AX100 thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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Camcorders > Sony 4K Handycam FDR-AX100 thread
flintyplus's Avatar flintyplus 08:01 AM 03-03-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Flinty, it's my understanding the codec used by Sony isn't as demanding as you think. I haven't tried it yet, but I know my editing program specifically mentions XAVC compatibility.

So Sonys 4k cams are probobly less PC demanding than other 4k manufactuars Ken,the trouble is i know my aging PC would not manage frown.gif

Ken Ross's Avatar Ken Ross 08:50 AM 03-03-2014
Flinty, it's hard to say how each manufacturer executes their codec, bitrates and resulting compression and how any given computer would handle them.

As an example, I've used and played with many AVCHD files from many cameras. I've generally had no issues playing any of them...except for Panasonic. For some reason Panasonic AVCHD makes my PS3 hiccup and stutter while playing back those files. I've had the same issue playing Panasonic files back on some Blu Ray players that have SD card slots. A Panasonic BD player I have does play the Panny files fine.

Yet Canon & Sony present zero playback issues on any equipment. So I'm not sure if the Panasonic files are more compressed and therefore more difficult to play back, or if it's something else, but it's something I've always noticed.
Greenwavepaul's Avatar Greenwavepaul 09:21 AM 03-03-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post


I'm still wondering how he got the camera to play with.

Ken, according to his profile he manages two audiovisual companies in France. He pobably has good relationships with audiovisual brands. He seems reliable to me, but i can't know for sure of course.
Looking forward to your first ax100 shots in a few weeks!
markr041's Avatar markr041 09:41 AM 03-03-2014
The XAVC S codec, as far as I can tell (and I have made a 4K video from another camera using this codec) is just a variant of H264. Any newer computer with an Intel processor will play even high bitrate (150 Mbps) XAVC S files smoothly. I have tested this on my $259 Asus laptop with Celeron processor. The Intel chips use hardware to decode H264 video for any player.
Ken Ross's Avatar Ken Ross 10:14 AM 03-03-2014
^ That should allay Flinty's concern, Mark. Thanks.
Ken Ross's Avatar Ken Ross 10:17 AM 03-03-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenwavepaul View Post

Ken, according to his profile he manages two audiovisual companies in France. He pobably has good relationships with audiovisual brands. He seems reliable to me, but i can't know for sure of course.
Looking forward to your first ax100 shots in a few weeks!

Interesting. I suspect that it's legit too as he goes in to a fair bit of detail about actually using the camera.
markr041's Avatar markr041 10:17 AM 03-03-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

^ That should allay Flinty's concern, Mark. Thanks.

Unless he insists on using a really old computer smile.gif.
Ken Ross's Avatar Ken Ross 10:25 AM 03-03-2014
True. But you'd think just editing his Canon footage would be a trial if his computer is that old.
hatchback's Avatar hatchback 10:54 AM 03-03-2014
The AX100 specs mention that it can shoot at 120fps. Does anyone know at what resolution it shoots 120fps?
lucasberg's Avatar lucasberg 11:04 AM 03-03-2014
I think it is at 720p.
jogiba's Avatar jogiba 11:09 AM 03-03-2014
How about a Sony 4K Ultra Short Throw Projector for showing your 4K videos !



http://www.sony.net/Products/4k-ultra-short-throw/








Ken Ross's Avatar Ken Ross 11:41 AM 03-03-2014
And how about the price Joe! Yours for only $40,000. I'll pass on this one, thanks. biggrin.gif
jogiba's Avatar jogiba 02:02 PM 03-03-2014
The Seiki Digital SE65UY04 65-Inch 4K Ultra HD TV was $1,387.89 on ( Amazon ) Jan 13 2014 Ken so I think by the end of the year the HDMI 2.0 versions should be selling for the same price.biggrin.gif
Ken Ross's Avatar Ken Ross 02:27 PM 03-03-2014
^ I don't think they've gotten very good reviews Joe.
William Chiu's Avatar William Chiu 02:52 PM 03-03-2014
it's a good monitor for train stations and sports bars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

^ I don't think they've gotten very good reviews Joe.

jogiba's Avatar jogiba 02:53 PM 03-03-2014
Ken I have seen some reviews that were not that bad considering they are a fraction of the price of other 4K UHD TVs. The lowest price for a 65" UHD TV at B&H is $4,299 .
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?atclk=Screen+Size_65%22&ci=2500&N=3965713807+4061293368+4292350611



Ken Ross's Avatar Ken Ross 03:45 PM 03-03-2014
I hear ya Joe. But my philosophy is kind of like William's above, if I'm getting a 4K display, it will be a good one. I'm too anal about video quality to deal with gray blacks or lousy uniformity. I know I'd have nothing but regrets. There are some areas I try not to cheap out, and video is one of them. It's a curse! smile.gif

I just don't think the Chinese 4K displays are up to the Japanese or Korean quality just yet. Maybe in a year or two.
Troy LaMont's Avatar Troy LaMont 04:45 PM 03-03-2014
Vizio's new P series 4K sets are looking to be the bee's knees on paper alone! They have 64 zone LED backlight dimming (for deeper blacks) and all the bells and whistles that come with higher end sets for a fraction of the cost. They have a nice 55" model that comes in at just under 1K. I'm sure we'll see the big boys start to reduce prices even more as well as the year rolls on.
Ken Ross's Avatar Ken Ross 04:54 PM 03-03-2014
We'll have to see how that 64 zone dimming works out. In actuality 64 zones is quite small when you consider that some FALD displays have over 300.

But I agree, on paper it looks great, but let's see real product. The real head turner is supposed to be the R series with many more LD zones, which may or may not ever see the light of day. The number of products that show up at CES and 'promised' but never delivered, are staggering.

I'm rooting for them, but remain skeptical until we see actual products and reviews.
flintyplus's Avatar flintyplus 12:31 AM 03-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

Unless he insists on using a really old computer smile.gif.
Well i dont insist but other more important things have needed paying in the past couple of years,my Packard and Bell,it IS a gaming PC because at the time it was the local pc shop had that would edit HD video,its been updated a few times,better processor etc,PCs are not my strong point and i dont know what spec a reasonable editing PC should have these days.

One thing i shall have to update some time but with building work of over £2000 sterling coming up among other things i would like to hang on as long as possible with my realy old computor wink.gif

Its fine with AVCHD & mov 1080P files
zoro's Avatar zoro 12:36 AM 03-04-2014
Mine on pre order. Waiting
Ken Ross's Avatar Ken Ross 05:29 AM 03-04-2014
Flinty, if it's fine with AVCHD, there's a good chance it will be fine with XAVC. Time will tell.
Ken Ross's Avatar Ken Ross 05:31 AM 03-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoro View Post

Mine on pre order. Waiting

And here we go, always a sign we're getting close, the manual is up:

http://support.sony-asia.com.edgesuite.net/consumer/IM/4534651111.pdf
markr041's Avatar markr041 08:04 AM 03-04-2014
OK, now I am worried (by the manual): Can you or can you not set iris, gain and shutter manually and independently? Or do the buttons for these merely give you different "priority" modes (set one, the others change automatically).

The manual says you can change one OR another not AND. I also see that from the RX10 manual, you do NOT in video mode have full manual control; you can just set iris or shutter priority, not change them independently manually. I understand there is also "exposure" manual control, but this changes all three parameters at once to get a desirable exposure. This is the same as on prior Sony camcorders, which have been criticized precisely for this lack of full manual

If there is no full manual mode, this is another continuing example of Sony crippling consumer cams in video. I hope I am wrong. Show me.

(And, just when I was beginning to get excited by this camera (for its compactness relative to the other contenders). Should I be disappointed? Going back to no RAW video and no full manual control may be impossible for me.)
Greenwavepaul's Avatar Greenwavepaul 09:01 AM 03-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

OK, now I am worried (by the manual): Can you or can you not set iris, gain and shutter manually and independently? Or do the buttons for these merely give you different "priority" modes (set one, the others change automatically).

The manual says you can change one OR another not AND. I also see that from the RX10 manual, you do NOT in video mode have full manual control; you can just set iris or shutter priority, not change them independently manually. I understand there is also "exposure" manual control, but this changes all three parameters at once to get a desirable exposure. This is the same as on prior Sony camcorders, which have been criticized precisely for this lack of full manual

If there is no full manual mode, this is another continuing example of Sony crippling consumer cams in video. I hope I am wrong. Show me.

(And, just when I was beginning to get excited by this camera (for its compactness relative to the other contenders). Should I be disappointed? Going back to no RAW video and no full manual control may be impossible for me.)

 

Sincerely, i think you're wrong. The manual says you can adjusting iris, gain and OR Shutter speed. They mean one at a time by pressing one of the assigned buttons for each one of those functions. In the viewfinder you can also see the three references for each setting. When in auto-mode there is the letter A before each setting. Once you turn to manual mode, it's up to you to set each function individually, one at a time. The camera memory will remember each setting until you change it again or turn to auto-mode by pressing te PROGRAM AE button.

 

I'm for 95% sure that's is the way it works; i will be sure 100% once i have the camera in my hands. But wouldn't it be stupid to have three individual buttons for each setting, when not allowed to use them individually?


markr041's Avatar markr041 09:11 AM 03-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenwavepaul View Post

Sincerely, i think you're wrong. The manual says you can adjusting iris, gain and OR Shutter speed. They mean one at a time by pressing one of the assigned buttons for each one of those functions. In the viewfinder you can also see the three references for each setting. When in auto-mode there is the letter A before each setting. Once you turn to manual mode, it's up to you to set each function individually, one at a time. The camera memory will remember each setting until you change it again or turn to auto-mode by pressing te PROGRAM AE button.

I'm for 95% sure that's is the way it works; i will be sure 100% once i have the camera in my hands. But wouldn't it be stupid to have three individual buttons for each setting, when not allowed to use them individually?
Sincerely, I hope you are right. It is precisely the OR rather than AND that is bothersome - 'or' implies alternatives. 'And' implies you do not have to choose one or another. Let's see.
Blasst's Avatar Blasst 09:25 AM 03-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

And here we go, always a sign we're getting close, the manual is up:

http://support.sony-asia.com.edgesuite.net/consumer/IM/4534651111.pdf

Sweet! Now we can all read up waiting for the cam to arrive.
Ken Ross's Avatar Ken Ross 10:10 AM 03-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

OK, now I am worried (by the manual): Can you or can you not set iris, gain and shutter manually and independently? Or do the buttons for these merely give you different "priority" modes (set one, the others change automatically).

No, I agree 100% with Greenwavepaul. The manual clearly says "Set iris, gain OR shutter speed". How else could they have worded this to illustrate independent control? They didn't say 'set iris OR gain OR shutter speed'. I think the reading is pretty clear. I believe the illustration showing each setting with an "A" in front of EACH value is consistent with the ability to set each parameter manually.

Also, importantly, you're incorrect about the RX10. You most certainly have independent control of both iris & shutter speed. When in manual video mode (not Program mode) both iris & shutter speed have no interaction, both are manually independent.

Now Mark, seriously, were you really considering the AX100...really? I can't see you leaving RAW. You are locked in to BM and you can't get out. biggrin.gif
markr041's Avatar markr041 11:42 AM 03-04-2014
"Also, importantly, you're incorrect about the RX10. You most certainly have independent control of both iris & shutter speed. When in manual video mode (not Program mode) both iris & shutter speed have no interaction, both are manually independent."

"Both" is not sufficient. What about gain? I see no gain setting, manually in movie mode. If you set exposure (iris) and shutter, what does gain (ISO) do? If you cannot also fix ISO, it is not full manual control. I am reading the RX10 manual. Can one fix ISO independently too in movie mode?

The AX100 has separate gain, iris and shutter buttons (recognizing there are three settings), so I am hopeful that each can be set independently - the AX100 manual is vague. One would think this is the case, but this would be unprecedented for Sony (unless the RX10 really has independent gain, iris and shutter manual control too in movie mode). I am only suspicious because of years of experience with Sony cameras and camcorders (e.g., crippling audio with agc only or just two settings until just the latest generation of camcorders and the RX10; no independent control of g,i,s.) and audio recorders (no manual control of audio in (recording) on consumer models).
Troy LaMont's Avatar Troy LaMont 12:08 PM 03-04-2014
I'm not sure if it was this thread but someone spent some time with it @ CES and confirmed full manual controls. May have been over at DVinfo.net forums, but I'll have to double check the source. I thought that was a huge plus for a camcorder at this price point.
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