Sony 4K Handycam FDR-AX100 thread - Page 25 - AVS Forum
First ... 23  24  25 26  27  ... Last
Camcorders > Sony 4K Handycam FDR-AX100 thread
guth's Avatar guth 02:45 AM 03-22-2014
I just read through the manual and couldn't find any way of controlling the amount of sharpening. Please tell me there's a way to lower it.

Tugela's Avatar Tugela 03:32 AM 03-22-2014
There isn't a full manual yet, but if you have the camera, try menu/camera-mic/camera settings/picture effect. That would seem to be the likely place where those sorts of parameters might be.
guth's Avatar guth 05:06 AM 03-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tugela View Post

There isn't a full manual yet, but if you have the camera, try menu/camera-mic/camera settings/picture effect. That would seem to be the likely place where those sorts of parameters might be.

I found a 190 page "help guide", though, that seemed rather complete. It mentions these picture effetcs: Toy camera, Pop color, Posterization, Retro photo, Soft high-key, Partial color, High contrast mono. Nothing about sharpness.
Greenwavepaul's Avatar Greenwavepaul 05:40 AM 03-22-2014
Quote:
 I found a 190 page "help guide", though, that seemed rather complete. It mentions these picture effetcs: Toy camera, Pop color, Posterization, Retro photo, Soft high-key, Partial color, High contrast mono. Nothing about sharpness.

 

 

Can you please tell us where you found that?


Ken Ross's Avatar Ken Ross 06:25 AM 03-22-2014
I think I had mentioned several pages back that there is no control of sharpness, color level or contrast. At least I haven't found it and typically it would be buried in the picture effects menu. You have quite a bit of manual control of iris, shutter speed and gain in addition to hue adjustments along an x/y axis.

With that said, I don't see the tell tale signs of needing to drop sharpness. I don't see halos along tree limbs against the sky or similar artifacts that would make you want to dial back on sharpness.
brunerww's Avatar brunerww 07:54 AM 03-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

...there is no control of sharpness, color level or contrast. ....

Sorry to hear that, Ken. The pictures are indeed gorgeous, even without manual control of color, but some of us really like to have control of color level and contrast. This has been typical of Sony camcorders in this price range, though. It's why I didn't buy the VG20 a couple of years ago.

Not a criticism of those who don't need or want color control - but I do.

Cheers and congrats on the great new camera,

Bill
guth's Avatar guth 08:26 AM 03-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenwavepaul View Post

Can you please tell us where you found that?

The 190 page help guide can be found here: http://download.sony-europe.com/pub/manuals/consumer/FDRAX100_CX900_HG_EN.pdf
guth's Avatar guth 08:58 AM 03-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I think I had mentioned several pages back that there is no control of sharpness, color level or contrast. At least I haven't found it and typically it would be buried in the picture effects menu. You have quite a bit of manual control of iris, shutter speed and gain in addition to hue adjustments along an x/y axis.

With that said, I don't see the tell tale signs of needing to drop sharpness. I don't see halos along tree limbs against the sky or similar artifacts that would make you want to dial back on sharpness.

Thanks for the info.
I can see lots of halos in the videos I've seen so far (let me know if you want me to point them out). I think it makes the video look unnatural. I want my video to look as close to real movies as possible (but with more fps). A typical Blu-ray has very little sharpening. Also, sharpening makes the video encoder spend valuable bits on those amplified edges, bits that could have been spent on real detail. So this is probably a deal breaker for me.
ispymedia's Avatar ispymedia 10:02 AM 03-22-2014

Slammed in an SDHC card so I couldn't shoot 4k, but here is what a sequence looks like in standard 1080i.  Out shooting 4k today.  This was as much as test of the FCPX workflow as anything.  So far - SEEMLESS!!

 

http://vimeo.com/89820713 - corrected


Blasst's Avatar Blasst 10:04 AM 03-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blasst View Post

Can you control zoom speed on the AX100?

Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

Yes, variable speed just like the former top-of-the-line Sony camcorders - for power zoom, pressure determines speed. Zoom is smooth and quiet, and can be manual too (using the lens ring). The zoom is not like the RX10 at all.

Is the variable speed available using the remote, or by also using the Multi/Micro USB Terminal with a controller?
Ken Ross's Avatar Ken Ross 10:13 AM 03-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by brunerww View Post

Sorry to hear that, Ken. The pictures are indeed gorgeous, even without manual control of color, but some of us really like to have control of color level and contrast. This has been typical of Sony camcorders in this price range, though. It's why I didn't buy the VG20 a couple of years ago.

Not a criticism of those who don't need or want color control - but I do.

Cheers and congrats on the great new camera,

Bill

Bill, since you'll be editing your footage anyway, I don't see it as a major issue as you have so much control in the editing process. This should be a no-brainer for a guy that likes to work with RAW. smile.gif

In fact I was just playing with Sony Movie Studio and bumped up the color level on one clip. It looked great and the net effect was no different than if I had done that in-camera.

With that said, would I have liked in-camera control of these parameters? Sure, but such is life. Always compromises. smile.gif
Ken Ross's Avatar Ken Ross 10:18 AM 03-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by guth View Post

Thanks for the info.
I can see lots of halos in the videos I've seen so far (let me know if you want me to point them out). I think it makes the video look unnatural. I want my video to look as close to real movies as possible (but with more fps). A typical Blu-ray has very little sharpening. Also, sharpening makes the video encoder spend valuable bits on those amplified edges, bits that could have been spent on real detail. So this is probably a deal breaker for me.

What I highlighted was, I think, the operative phrase. The AX100 will not give you a 'movie look' but it will give you a 'real life look'. For guys like me that are always trying to get as close as possible to recording an event just as I saw it, the AX100 is the closest I've ever gotten. I have no interest in a movie look or stylizing videos. That's just not my thing. If it was, I'd probably venture over to RAW. smile.gif

Now with that said, having looked at footage on my 64" plasma and an 85" UHD TV, I don't see halos. If they're there, I surely don't see them at anything approaching viewing distance. If they're visible with pixel peeping, the next sound you'll hear is me yawning. wink.gif
Ken Ross's Avatar Ken Ross 10:26 AM 03-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by ispymedia View Post

Slammed in an SDHC card so I couldn't shoot 4k, but here is what a sequence looks like in standard 1080i.  Out shooting 4k today.  This was as much as test of the FCPX workflow as anything.  So far - SEEMLESS!!

http://vimeo.com/89767006

Nicely done!

I'm not sure Vimeo gives you an actual 1080 viewing if you're not a premium member (or whatever they call it). I saw the highest available download was 720p, so this may be a 720p rendering.

BTW, you do know there is a 1080p setting, right? On Sonys it's a bit convoluted to get there. You have to press 'OK' through several options to get that choice. You actually have a choice of 50mps 1080 30p via XAVC-S and you also have good ol AVCHD @1080 60p.

With the addition of XAVC-S, it's a bit more convoluted in the menu than it used to be.
Ken Ross's Avatar Ken Ross 10:28 AM 03-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blasst View Post


Is the variable speed available using the remote, or by also using the Multi/Micro USB Terminal with a controller?

I'll probably know later today Blasst as I left my remote up at Robert's VE store. I'm hoping to get the remote and the lens hood in the mail.

I seem to recall with other Sonys that you generally get a single speed on the remote, but I may be wrong. I've almost never used the remote during recording.
Eugene157's Avatar Eugene157 10:32 AM 03-22-2014
Thanks for posting the help manual Guth.

I was looking for a way to increase the brightness of the EVF but no luck. It appears that this camera uses a generic OS, apparently other cameras with this OS have no EVF, so no adjustment.

Still like to get some opinions about using a UV filter to protect the lens. Did some research, HOYA HMC UV-0 seems to be best in transmission, reflection etc.

Newegg has 64GB HCXC cards for around $30.00. bought Wintec, PNY and P LX series, all work fine. All are class 10 U1 even though U1 is not required, PNY will do 90GB Read and 60GB Write, the others are 60/30 .
Tested with Crystal Disc Mark. Needs USB3

Sony is still using that stupid USB dongle.



Gene
William Chiu's Avatar William Chiu 10:39 AM 03-22-2014
I have used many brands including the Hoya HMC but not UV, I find under some indoor lighting conditions that clear or protector series filters are more widely applicable.
Since the FDR-AX100 has built-in ND dial in filters, there is little need for an outdoor UV over that. A protection filter that cleans off well is fine.
I just ordered one of these for my FDR-AX100:
http://*******/G2i1Pu

I was thinking of ordering the Heliopan IR, but they do not have the size.
I use these on my still cameras and they do wonders for CMOS sensors.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene157 View Post

Thanks for posting the help manual Guth.

I was looking for a way to increase the brightness of the EVF but no luck. It appears that this camera uses a generic OS, apparently other cameras with this OS have no EVF, so no adjustment.

Still like to get some opinions about using a UV filter to protect the lens. Did some research, HOYA HMC UV-0 seems to be best in transmission, reflection etc.

Gene

Eugene157's Avatar Eugene157 11:02 AM 03-22-2014
Excellent tip William!. Will order that filter from B+H tonight.

Thanks!

Eugene
guth's Avatar guth 01:09 PM 03-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

What a highlighted was, I think, the operative phrase. The AX100 will not give you a 'movie look' but it will give you a 'real life look'. For guys like me that are always trying to get as close as possible to recording an event just as I saw it, the AX100 is the closest I've ever gotten. I have no interest in a movie look or stylizing videos. That's just not my thing. If it was, I'd probably venture over to RAW. smile.gif

Now with that said, having looked at footage on my 64" plasma and an 85" UHD TV, I don't see halos. If they're there, I surely don't see them at anything approaching viewing distance. If they're visible with pixel peeping, the next sound you'll hear is me yawning. wink.gif

As I said, I think the sharpening makes the video look unnatural, which is basically the opposite of 'real life look'. So, I don't really agree with you there.
And yes, I'd love to shoot RAW. But I want at least 50p too, and no line skipping, and I don't want to spend a fortune. Do you know a camera that fits?
Ken Ross's Avatar Ken Ross 02:47 PM 03-22-2014
Guth, we all see things differently. All I can tell you is at the store when we threw 2 clips up on the 85" UHD TV, it totally mimicked precisely what we saw in the store. You looked around and then looked at the screen, it was utterly amazing.

To my eyes that mimicked real life better than anything I've ever seen in video...aside from some of the amazing demo reels you often see. Once you see this stuff in true 4K, you'll see.

In the interim, IMO, the downrez'd HD looks better than anything I've seen and closer to the real world look I'm after. That's why I say we see things differently. smile.gif

Let's put it this way, if the video below doesn't impress you and you don't think this looks like 'real world', look elsewhere, the AX100 is not for you!

Blasst & Hatch, what's your latest ETA?
Eugene157's Avatar Eugene157 04:43 PM 03-22-2014
Ken,

how does the PD12 compare to the free Sony editor. Proxy editing? EDIT NO it does not

I downloaded it but have to backup my computer before I try it.

Did a test over a year ago but it did not offer 60P burning.


I detected some sharpening when using test patterns and looking on the computer screen. However that was not the case when watching on a $K Sony TV at BestBuy.
The resolution wedge was nice and clean topping out at 1800 LPPH. On the computer monitor the same video tops out at 1000LPPH.

Gene
chenderson2's Avatar chenderson2 04:59 PM 03-22-2014
Ok, so I have made my first video. It seemed to show very well on my Sony 4K TV, but the stabilization did a much worse job than the ones on my Canon cameras. I believe there are more settings for the stabilization, so I'll look into that.
Now for some questions:
Final Cut Pro gives a message that editing 4K is not recommended on this computer. When I imported it and tried to play it, the playback was very jerky. It stuttered. It did the same thing when I played back the Quicktime movie I exported.
My computer is a MacBook Pro with a 2.93GHz processor. Would the software Sony is offering work better than Final Cut? I'd have to run it with VM Fusion and Windows XP.
Blasst's Avatar Blasst 05:00 PM 03-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I'll probably know later today Blasst as I left my remote up at Robert's VE store. I'm hoping to get the remote and the lens hood in the mail.

I seem to recall with other Sonys that you generally get a single speed on the remote, but I may be wrong. I've almost never used the remote during recording.

I'm hoping that I can use the remote with more than one zoom speed, or be able to control the camera zoom speed with a controller via the Multi/Micro USB Terminal. I shoot a lot of track and field and having a slow zoom via remote or Lanc helps make my clips not look like amateur night.wink.gif The Sony HC3 only had one zoom speed while I could set the zoom speed on the Canon HV10. The Pannys (TM900) never had the selectable zoom speed either, and I film on a tripod, crane and never hardly touch the camera while filming. So I await a definitive answer.smile.gif
Blasst's Avatar Blasst 05:02 PM 03-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post


Blasst & Hatch, what's your latest ETA?

Mine is still showing 3/25/14 on the Sony site.
markr041's Avatar markr041 05:15 PM 03-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blasst View Post

I'm hoping that I can use the remote with more than one zoom speed, or be able to control the camera zoom speed with a controller via the Multi/Micro USB Terminal. I shoot a lot of track and field and having a slow zoom via remote or Lanc helps make my clips not look like amateur night.wink.gif The Sony HC3 only had one zoom speed while I could set the zoom speed on the Canon HV10. The Pannys (TM900) never had the selectable zoom speed either, and I film on a tripod, crane and never hardly touch the camera while filming. So I await a definitive answer.smile.gif

You have another choice: remote control by wifi on a tablet or cellphone, using PlayMemories. This has zoom control too I believe.
chenderson2's Avatar chenderson2 06:14 PM 03-22-2014
Here is a link to my first video. It seems smoother on Youtube than when playing it on my computer.
http://youtu.be/zDfUA0R6hj8
markr041's Avatar markr041 06:24 PM 03-22-2014
I don't understand why there is any trouble playing 4K videos from the AX100. I played my XAVC S video (https://vimeo.com/89673510) at the Apple Store, on MacBook Pro's and on iMacs. They all played the video completely smoothly and the video was stunning, particularly on the 23.5" iMac, which has a calibrated screen. The video attracted a crowd, all of whom were amazed.

I also played the video on Windows tablets (with Atom Processors) and on every type of Windows computer. I again had no problem playing the video. We were given a Samsung tote bag by the Samsung salesman after playing the video on their new almost-UHD laptops. Again a crowd was attracted, and nobody mentioned halos or asked what happens when you blow up the picture 100% and there is flowing water rolleyes.gif.

I have shot 1080 Video RAW and with camcorders; there is absolutely nothing that compares in terms of capturing reality.
Eugene157's Avatar Eugene157 07:35 PM 03-22-2014
I use the free VLC Media Player, nice smooth PB.

BTW I can see why Sony limits the adjustments on the 100, obviously they want to sell the AX1 etc

My Pana HC-X900M has far more adjustment options and better stabilizer but no 4K. When P came out with the 920 which has a much larger sensor I thought it to be just a step away from 4K.

Perhaps later in the year.

Eugene
P&Struefan's Avatar P&Struefan 09:04 PM 03-22-2014
To Chenderson,

Final Cut Pro gives a message that editing 4K is not recommended on this computer.........[/quote]

What's the version of your FCP? What exactly are the specs of your Mac? e.g. a dual or a quad CPU, the GPU? And did you play back the exported clips off a separate disk, etc.?
ispymedia's Avatar ispymedia 09:57 PM 03-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post


Nicely done!

I'm not sure Vimeo gives you an actual 1080 viewing if you're not a premium member (or whatever they call it). I saw the highest available download was 720p, so this may be a 720p rendering.

BTW, you do know there is a 1080p setting, right? On Sonys it's a bit convoluted to get there. You have to press 'OK' through several options to get that choice. You actually have a choice of 50mps 1080 30p via XAVC-S and you also have good ol AVCHD @1080 60p.

With the addition of XAVC-S, it's a bit more convoluted in the menu than it used to be.

I see where I missed the setting upon export.  I'm a veteran of fcp7.  I resisted X long enough, but with camera in hand I now have a reason to embrace it.  So far so good.  Overcast day today, but this is what I came up with @3840.  http://vimeo.com/89818100  Again, please forgive the lack of editing prowess.  I DO LOVE THIS CAMERA!!

 

http://vimeo.com/89819650 - part two of my very first 4k test on the AX100


Ken Ross's Avatar Ken Ross 10:07 PM 03-22-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene157 View Post

Ken,

how does the PD12 compare to the free Sony editor. Proxy editing? EDIT NO it does not

I downloaded it but have to backup my computer before I try it.

I like PD better. A friend of mine who will buying the AX100 asked me to output a 4K clip in HD in both Sony Platinum and PD. He has Vegas and put one of my 4K clips in his program, but said it had some subtle artifacts when output in HD. I noticed the same thing in Platinum. The same 4K clip output in HD from PD was artifact free and virtually indistinguishable from the on-the-fly down rez'g when you watch it via HDMI from the camera to an HDTV.

BTW, the trial version does not allow 4K, so it was pretty useless from that standpoint.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene157 View Post


I detected some sharpening when using test patterns and looking on the computer screen. However that was not the case when watching on a $K Sony TV at BestBuy.
The resolution wedge was nice and clean topping out at 1800 LPPH. On the computer monitor the same video tops out at 1000LPPH.

Gene

That brings out an interesting point regarding test patterns. I've often noticed that you can see evidence of mild over sharpening on test patterns, but that becomes, in many cases, very hard to spot with actual program material. I've pointed that out to the guy who ISF's my displays, and he agrees. So I tend to like a little extra sharpness as long as I don't see evidence of halos, ringing etc. in actual program material. I don't care if it's only observable on test patterns. I know some will disagree, but that's what makes horse racing. smile.gif

Yes, the output from the AX100 on a 4K display is a real treat. I look forward to getting one later this year.
First ... 23  24  25 26  27  ... Last

Up
Mobile  Desktop