Sony 4K Handycam FDR-AX100 thread - Page 28 - AVS Forum

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Ken Ross's Avatar Ken Ross
08:27 PM Liked: 1663
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03-23-2014 | Posts: 24,862
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William Chiu View Post

Yeah, real life looks flat, washed out.
Just walk out into a noon sun and what does your eyes see. Low contrast as you eyes are squinting for air.
Much is what some people want as true to life.

I'm not sure if you meant this tongue in cheek. If not, I'd disagree. Bright sunny days have a huge amount of contrast as seen by the naked eye. That's why these flat files, prior to processing, look so ugly and unnatural.

Eugene, those flowers are pretty spectacular. smile.gif
William Chiu's Avatar William Chiu
08:41 PM Liked: 61
post #812 of 2816
03-23-2014 | Posts: 316
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don't take that paragraph out of context. read the following one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I'm not sure if you meant this tongue in cheek. If not, I'd disagree. Bright sunny days have a huge amount of contrast as seen by the naked eye. That's why these flat files, prior to processing, look so ugly and unnatural.

Eugene, those flowers are pretty spectacular. smile.gif

Tugela's Avatar Tugela
01:38 AM Liked: 64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I bet you're not using Win 8.1. I had been using Splash Pro, my favorite player, but it's not compatible with 4K files.

Interestingly, WMP used to be my least favorite media player, but in Win 8.1 it's hugely improved. It plays AX100 files beautifully.

I'm also thinking that 8.1 is what allows me to get thumbnails with 4K files. Perhaps it does have more codec compatibility.

I use windows 7, no 4k file from any camera I have downloaded shows a proper thumbnail, the operating system does not recognize them at all. It is not just footage from an AX100 that does, footage from the BMPC 4K does that as well. WMP will not play any of them either, but VLC has no problem.

So, I think it is a windows problem, not an issue with the camera's file format.
chenderson2's Avatar chenderson2
07:35 AM Liked: 17
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Can someone that uses Final Cut Pro X tell me in which format to "share" the finished project in order for it to be loaded back into the FDR-AX100 to view on a Sony 4K TV?
Ken Ross's Avatar Ken Ross
08:37 AM Liked: 1663
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Chenderson2, I don't use FCP, but I suspect you'll have a problem loading projects back on a card to play through the Sony AX100. Since the camera has a very specific file structure, simply dropping a single project file on the card may cause the AX100 to not recognize the file. I've had the same issue with AVCHD files. Load the file on to a card and insert into an AVCHD camera, and it doesn't even show up. So to view project files, I would use something like a PS3 or Blu Ray player with a USB input that recognizes the files.

In fact I just tried loading one clip I edited on to the card I use for the AX100. Because the card is formatted differently than what you'd use for AVCHD, the PS3 and Blu Ray player didn't even recognize the card. However when I loaded the same clip on a card I've used for AVCHD, I was able to play the file with no problem.

The other issue you may have is the current iteration of firmware on your Sony 4K TV. As an example, it's easy playing a file on a Samsung 4K TV via the one connect box since it recognizes these files through its 4K USB ready inputs. I don't believe you can do the same with the 2013 Sony 4K TVs. The new 2014 Sonys will accept these files via their USB inputs.

Now it's possible that Sony implemented a firmware update as they did with HDMI 2.0 to accept these files, but I'm not sure.
pilotb777's Avatar pilotb777
09:10 AM Liked: 10
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03-24-2014 | Posts: 22
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Hi
I have two questions
1- can I use SanDisk Extreme Plus 128 GB SDXC Class 10 UHS-1 Flash Memory Card 80MB/s (SDSDXS-128G-AFFP)

2-iif I record 4k can I display what I record direct from a camera to 4k tv samsung and see 4k
Thanks a lot
Blasst's Avatar Blasst
09:17 AM Liked: 27
post #817 of 2816
03-24-2014 | Posts: 3,505
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene157 View Post

None of my players will decode the thumbnail.

What players are you guys using, pretty please

Gene

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tugela View Post

VLC should play it, but most of the other players I've tried won't, presumably because it is 4k. It doesn't show as a thumbnail the way 1080p videos do, but I think that is a windows issue, not a player issue.

VLC works as Tugela mentioned. Just a thought for the future, once you get to 4k60p files (AX1) I could only get Windows Media Player Classic to play them. Like Ken, Splash Pro is one of my go to players, hopefully they can update it to play the 4k files.
William Chiu's Avatar William Chiu
09:34 AM Liked: 61
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1. yes
2. not sure
Quote:
Originally Posted by pilotb777 View Post

Hi
I have two questions
1- can I use SanDisk Extreme Plus 128 GB SDXC Class 10 UHS-1 Flash Memory Card 80MB/s (SDSDXS-128G-AFFP)

2-iif I record 4k can I display what I record direct from a camera to 4k tv samsung and see 4k
Thanks a lot

Ken Ross's Avatar Ken Ross
09:42 AM Liked: 1663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pilotb777 View Post

Hi
I have two questions
1- can I use SanDisk Extreme Plus 128 GB SDXC Class 10 UHS-1 Flash Memory Card 80MB/s (SDSDXS-128G-AFFP)

2-iif I record 4k can I display what I record direct from a camera to 4k tv samsung and see 4k
Thanks a lot

2- Yes. That's exactly what I did when I picked up my camera. We connected it to the one-connect box of the 85" Samsung 4K display and it worked perfectly. In a word, breathtaking. Of course you'd get similar results with a Sony 4K display played from camera to TV.
Eugene157's Avatar Eugene157
09:48 AM Liked: 21
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Tugela, thanks for the reply.

So the VLC player is the default and no thumbnail. I think that it is the player software that decodes the thumbnail because with other than 4K input all is well.

As far as playing from a SDXC memory to a TV, neither Sony nor Samsung are able to play even with a USB adapter. HDMI from the camera was the first ever pb of my own stuff. That includes 4K material edited by PD11 and 12.

Tried downloading WM 12 player, can not be done on win7.

Look at tha 4K video I posted earlier, worth looking at.

Eugene
Ken Ross's Avatar Ken Ross
10:09 AM Liked: 1663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene157 View Post

Tugela, thanks for the reply.

So the VLC player is the default and no thumbnail. I think that it is the player software that decodes the thumbnail because with other than 4K input all is well.

Given that in Windows 8.1 I get these thumbnails in File Explorer, I'm not so sure. I think the OS is playing a role.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene157 View Post

As far as playing from a SDXC memory to a TV, neither Sony nor Samsung are able to play even with a USB adapter. HDMI from the camera was the first ever pb of my own stuff. That includes 4K material edited by PD11 and 12.
Eugene

Hmm, I was under the impression that you could plug a USB card reader into a Samsung 4K TV and get it to recognize & play the files. It does advertise these USB ports as 4K ready. I certainly had no issues with the camera hooked up to the Samsung via HDMI. I don't believe the 2013 Sonys are capable of having 4K input through their USB ports (unless there was a software update applied that I'm not aware of).

Eugene, I'm wondering how you were able to get an edited project to play from the camera via HDMI to a 4K TV. The camera doesn't seem to recognize any files that weren't created by itself. So doing a copy & paste of a 4K project created in an editing program, on to the memory card, doesn't seem to work from what I've seen.
Ken Ross's Avatar Ken Ross
10:16 AM Liked: 1663
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OK, so an update on VLC media player and thumbnails. Although I get thumbnails when using File Explorer outside of VLC, when I access the folder from the memory card from within VLC, no thumbnails. I only get the file listings.
Troy LaMont's Avatar Troy LaMont
10:24 AM Liked: 19
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Quote:
Hmm, I was under the impression that you could plug a USB card reader into a Samsung 4K TV and get it to recognize & play the files. It does advertise these USB ports as 4K ready.

Not all of the Samsung TVs allow that right now, I know the first gen don't for sure and the HU series is starting to ship about now that supposedly supports it. I haven't had the opportunity to test those sets yet.
Ken Ross's Avatar Ken Ross
10:29 AM Liked: 1663
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Troy, are you sure the 9000 series doesn't allow that? I've seen the USB ports on the 65" 9000.

Here's what the literature says:

"Three 4K-capable USB ports

Enable simple playback of content from a wide range of devices, such as storage devices, camera, camcorders and USB drives."
Troy LaMont's Avatar Troy LaMont
10:40 AM Liked: 19
post #825 of 2816
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They have different 9000 series nomenclature: F9000 (older generation), HU9000 (newer generation). The newer gen 9000 series does for sure, it's highlighted in the manual and it's very robust for file type, container and codec support (even supports HEVC 5.1 for full 4096 x 2160 @ 30fps)

The manual for the F9000 series only shows support for 1080p and I've tried every 4K/UHD file type imaginable and I've never gotten them to play on the older F9000 series (1st gen), just like Sony's first gen models don't accept 4K/UHD via USB those don't either. That's the reason I went with my LG set because it does support 4K via USB.

**Actually the first gen 9000 series do support 4K via USB but only in Samsung's proprietary 4K *.s4ud file format! I don't know of ANY software or program that can output that file type so you may as well say it's not supported! cool.gif
Eugene157's Avatar Eugene157
11:00 AM Liked: 21
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Ken, not an edited copy from the camera. The video was on a USB stick. The samsung and Sony was unable to play the video from the AX100 SDXC card , either direct or nia USB 3 adaptor. I was only able to see the video straight from the HDMI from the 100. Not clear what those HDMI ports (incl. camera) are since V1.4 will handle 30 FPS 4K video.

As to the thumbnails, I tried all settings on the pc to no avail. I am speculating that VLC does not have a specific XAVC-S decoder. Tried to download from Sony but nothing. I think it will be solved in time.

Wife and I will go to China in 4 weeks including 5 days on the Yangtze river. Have been buying extra batteries and chargers. All non Sony. And memorycards I have enough for 14 hrs.

Gene
bobk77's Avatar bobk77
11:10 AM Liked: 11
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Gene,

Can you dump the short file somethere? I want to try if I am able to play 4K. Thanks
William Chiu's Avatar William Chiu
11:14 AM Liked: 61
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this plate fits for Arca Swiss, RRS, Gitzo and others.


guth's Avatar guth
12:02 PM Liked: 12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

And yet he claims the footage Joe provided from the Epic had better detail. I just sit here and shake my head. What is he looking at? I mean honestly, what is he seeing? eek.gif

I must say this is a little bit funny. You shake your head in disbelief because I think video from Red Epic looks better than video from AX100. I mean, really...?
The major way I think it looks better, btw, is that it looks much more natural. Just so we are clear on that.

Now, I have an honest question I would really like to get an answer to:
My three complaints in post 784, about the screen capture from the video you all love so much, please answer A, B or C below:

A. You don't know what I mean, so you don't really know what to look for.

B. You can't see the problems I describe at all.

C. You can see it, but you don't think it matters.

Thanks.
Tugela's Avatar Tugela
12:13 PM Liked: 64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guth View Post

I must say this is a little bit funny. You shake your head in disbelief because I think video from Red Epic looks better than video from AX100. I mean, really...?
The major way I think it looks better, btw, is that it looks much more natural. Just so we are clear on that.

Now, I have an honest question I would really like to get an answer to:
My three complaints in post 784, about the screen capture from the video you all love so much, please answer A, B or C below:

A. You don't know what I mean, so you don't really know what to look for.

B. You can't see the problems I describe at all.

C. You can see it, but you don't think it matters.

Thanks.

Option D: I'm seeing things that are not there.

I go with option D smile.gif
Eugene157's Avatar Eugene157
12:19 PM Liked: 21
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Bob
Not sure what you have in mind.


Gene
James Jimmy's Avatar James Jimmy
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by pilotb777 View Post

Hi
I have two questions
1- can I use SanDisk Extreme Plus 128 GB SDXC Class 10 UHS-1 Flash Memory Card 80MB/s (SDSDXS-128G-AFFP)
...

 

Sony does not make any specific requirements except SDXC Class 10 UHS-1.  Is it necessary to purchase the high speed 80 MB/s cards?  The 40 MB/s cards are much cheaper.  I'm thinking about this instead which is about 1/2 price:

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00I4ZMNY4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER


jogiba's Avatar jogiba
12:35 PM Liked: 76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Jimmy View Post

Sony does not make any specific requirements except SDXC Class 10 UHS-1.  Is it necessary to purchase the high speed 80 MB/s cards?  The 40 MB/s cards are much cheaper.  I'm thinking about this instead which is about 1/2 price:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00I4ZMNY4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
There is no way I would use that slow micro SDXC card with a 4K camera.
markr041's Avatar markr041
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Jimmy View Post

Sony does not make any specific requirements except SDXC Class 10 UHS-1.  Is it necessary to purchase the high speed 80 MB/s cards?  The 40 MB/s cards are much cheaper.  I'm thinking about this instead which is about 1/2 price:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00I4ZMNY4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

It is absolutely, positively NOT necessary to purchase the expensive 80+ MB/s high-speed class-10 cards. How do I know?

1. Theory: the XAVC S bitrate is 60 Mbps; that is less than 8 MB/s.

2. Evidence: I have shot 100's of 4K clips using a 40 MB/s card without a problem.
guth's Avatar guth
12:36 PM Liked: 12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tugela View Post

I'm seeing this that are not there.

If that's a correct English sentence, I'm afraid I don't understand it. (I'm Swedish, so....)
Please clarify.
James Jimmy's Avatar James Jimmy
12:39 PM Liked: 23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post


It is absolutely, positively NOT necessary to purchase the expensive 80+ MB/s high-speed class-10 cards. How do I know?

1. Theory: the XAVC S bitrate is 60 Mbps; that is less than 8 MB/s.

2. Evidence: I have shot 100's of 4K clips using a 40 MB/s card without a problem.

What is the card you are using?


markr041's Avatar markr041
12:42 PM Liked: 145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Jimmy View Post

What is the card you are using?

Sandisk Ultra 64GB SDXC (UHS-1). In fact the card is rated 30 MB/s, still way above what is needed and meets what Sony says.

Btw, when I shoot RAW video with my BMPCC, I need to use the Sandisk Extreme Pro, at 90+ MB/s. That is because the bitrates are multiple hundreds of Mbps.
Ken Ross's Avatar Ken Ross
01:50 PM Liked: 1663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guth View Post

I must say this is a little bit funny. You shake your head in disbelief because I think video from Red Epic looks better than video from AX100. I mean, really...?
The major way I think it looks better, btw, is that it looks much more natural. Just so we are clear on that.

Now, I have an honest question I would really like to get an answer to:
My three complaints in post 784, about the screen capture from the video you all love so much, please answer A, B or C below:

A. You don't know what I mean, so you don't really know what to look for.

B. You can't see the problems I describe at all.

C. You can see it, but you don't think it matters.

Thanks.

Yes, really! You think the video from the Red looked great because anything coming from that camera 'must' look great. Correct? If I had told you it was from an AX100, you would have said it was absolute garbage. The power of the mind and pre-conceived notions are fascinating. There was less detail in the Red footage, no ands, ifs or buts. If you see otherwise, you're looking at something else, not that clip. IMO, the video was 'dead', it had no life whatsoever. If I saw with my naked eyes the way that video looked, I would be sitting in an ophthalmologist's office right now, not posting here on AVS. I'm very serious.

Seriously, if you thought that Red clip looked great, why are you even here? There is no way you can extract a video from the AX100 that looks anything like that. That's not what the AX100 is designed to do. Obviously the Red is capable of FAR better results than that one Red clip. But just because it came from a Red does NOT make it the cat's meow by definition. That's the problem with so many people that think if something came from an expensive camera, no matter how poorly it was shot, no matter how misadjusted it may have been, no matter how poor the skills of the shooter were, it just absolutely has to be terrific. Untrue.

It's very apparent you like a 'filmic, stylized' approach to video. You won't get that with the AX100. The AX100 will give you reality, not stylized video unless you want to play with it in the editing process.

Further, we've established the AX100 has no 'sharpness' control. So from your point of view, you have no interest. So it's done. But here you are...still.

As for your multiple choice 'option list', it's incomplete. It assumes there is a problem and either we're not sophisticated enough to see it, we see it but don't care or we are too inexperienced to know what to look for. All are false.

The correct option would be the one you didn't post:

D. I am seeing something that, in actuality, cannot be seen in moving video and is probably the result of YouTube compression as it's not visible in native files, even on large screen 4K TVs.

As I mentioned and as Mark also experienced, a number of people at 2 Apple stores saw the videos and were all stunned by how good they are. Not one single person wasn't hugely impressed. Not one single person pointed out the existence of artifacts. Not one. We have numerous people here too that are wowed.

The key point is that in moving video, most people do not fixate on a pixel-peeped, YouTube frame grab (or a pixel-peeped native clip frame grab for that matter). Go try that on far more expensive cameras and I'd be willing to be they too would fail that test.

But hey, you've decided this camera is not for you, but you're still here despite claiming that you were leaving. Interesting.smile.gif
Tugela's Avatar Tugela
02:13 PM Liked: 64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guth View Post

If that's a correct English sentence, I'm afraid I don't understand it. (I'm Swedish, so....)
Please clarify.

Typo. Corrected. I am old, I miss stuff wink.gif
dalemccl's Avatar dalemccl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSOffice View Post

Hi guys,
I'm in the UK so haven't got my hands on an AX100 yet, but can anyone answer a couple of queries for me? A) does the camera give a HDMI feed out in HD while recording 4K internally? If so, any idea if it has the start/stop trigger in the signal? And B) do we know what the HD signal over HDMI is? Is it 8bit or 10 bit?

All thoughts/comments gratefully received!

Ta
Richie

>>A) does the camera give a HDMI feed out in HD while recording 4K internally?

Unfortunately no. In the pdf manual it says:

"While recording XAVC S 4K movies, you cannot output movies to an external monitor via an
HDMI/video connection. Only the on-screen display is output."

To me, this is a serious limitation.

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