Sony 4K Handycam FDR-AX100 thread - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 2102 Old 03-26-2014, 07:06 AM
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Here is a 720 120p video from yesterday




Also a 4K macro video with a Raynox DCR-250 and some digi zoom



Some things I have noticed but I might be doing it wrong.

Nightshot works with all video modes except 720 120p

Clear image zoom only comes on in active stabilization mode only

I wish it showed the zoom amount (5x-10x-12x) when zooming

It's a pain to switch modes. You have to switch the format then switch the mode. Seems like it could have been a 1 button thing.

Loving the manual control so far on this awesome camera.

Also youtube compression seems to blow/increase the highlights
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post #902 of 2102 Old 03-26-2014, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Mark, the first thing that strikes me about your indoor cinematone test is that little guy you've shot so many times with so many different cameras. There has never been such detail in any of those prior videos from the other cams. It's really impressive.

Regarding cinematone, which mode was closer to how your eyes saw the colors, with or without it? As we've discussed, I think this rendition of cinematone is better than in previous iterations of Sonys.

It probably comes down to a subjective decision by the shooter, but I think it's good to let owners know this option exists and has the potential to increase in-camera color saturation if they'd rather do that than in post.

Of course, as you mentioned, some people feel that Sony's decision to tame the color in the AX100 relative to many previous Sonys, is a good one and may result in a more natural color rendition.

The weather here (as you know) has not been conducive to much outdoor shooting and colors at this time of the year are rather bland to begin with. But based on some of the clips I've seen from other owners who have had better subject content to shoot, I think the color looks pretty good.

I agree, the resolution (even looking at 1080p) is impressive. Also, I am impressed by the auto WB - the lights used are really yellowish/green, and the AX100 is the only one to tame them to neutral - the paper is white. All the other cameras (GH3, Panasonic TM900, EOS M) give yellowish colors.

There is something appealing about vivid colors (like the EOS M gives), and Cinematone delivers that without great distortion.

I think we need to see some outdoor shots too, if we ever get sun, blue skies, green grass and spring flowers (I did get the snow bells once the snow had melted).

One other feature in that video: the focus held on the subject (the little guy) during even the fast zoom - the lens seems to be parfocal. No GH3 lens can do that, or any Sony NEX lens or the Canon lenses (of the one's I own).
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post #903 of 2102 Old 03-26-2014, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James Jimmy 
I did notice some pattern noise in the darker background in the original footage.  I ran it through some curves to brighten the highlights.

That is the most dramatic fresh water fish tank shot I have seen... I was expecting jaws to make an appearance. Smart Sound music track?

Btw- liking the second daylight video shot. The leaf in between the purple sage (I think it's a type of sage plant,) was pretty cool.

Rob
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post #904 of 2102 Old 03-26-2014, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by jogiba View Post

Nvidia just came out with the ultimate 4K graphic card, the Titan Z with 12GB of VRAM !

Ohhh yeesss.. my precious.

My future Xeon 20+ Core Workstation will love one of these.

Rob
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post #905 of 2102 Old 03-26-2014, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post


One other feature in that video: the focus held on the subject (the little guy) during even the fast zoom - the lens seems to be parfocal. No GH3 lens can do that, or any Sony NEX lens or the Canon lenses (of the one's I own).

Yes, very true, I've noticed that too. I also agree about the WB accuracy, one of the best I've seen on a Sony.

Regarding cinematone, I think we'll need to see how it handles flesh tones. With a heightened contrast, color saturation and a skew toward the red, it will be interesting to see how that turns out. We may find that cinematone is better used for landscapes.

Of course it's also so easy to raise color levels in post to wherever you want them to be. The AX100 seems to handle that very nicely.
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post #906 of 2102 Old 03-26-2014, 08:56 AM
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I found it's not easy finding a good fitting bag for the AX100. I wound up with this one and it fits perfectly with minimum bulk:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/572723-REG/Pearstone_OSC_1040B_Onyx_1040_Digital_Camera_Camcorder.html
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post #907 of 2102 Old 03-26-2014, 09:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobAC View Post

Ohhh yeesss.. my precious.

My future Xeon 20+ Core Workstation will love one of these.

Rob
I think the new MacPro with Dual AMD FirePro D700 GPUs with 6GB of GDDR5 VRAM each (12GB total) might match the new Titan Z at a lower price.
http://www.extremetech.com/computing/173695-apples-new-overpriced-10000-mac-pro-is-2000-cheaper-than-the-equivalent-windows-pc
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post #908 of 2102 Old 03-26-2014, 01:26 PM
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@dalemccl 

Thanks for your reply.  Shame it hasn't got HDMI HD out while recording 4K, but I guess there's an awful lot of processing going on in a very small camera!

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post #909 of 2102 Old 03-26-2014, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemccl View Post

>>A) does the camera give a HDMI feed out in HD while recording 4K internally?

Unfortunately no. In the pdf manual it says:

"While recording XAVC S 4K movies, you cannot output movies to an external monitor via an
HDMI/video connection. Only the on-screen display is output."

To me, this is a serious limitation.

Ya, this is a bummer. Won't be able to use the cam on a jib/crane outputting to a monitor to see what the hell I am filming from 20ft away.smile.gif Mark of course showed us using a smart phone or tablet would at least give us a monitor to see with while filming 4k, though I wouldn't want to zoom with a cell phone or tablet.

The Mod Squad: New vs. Classic TV Series Opening https://vimeo.com/63119329
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post #910 of 2102 Old 03-26-2014, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by MSOffice View Post

@dalemccl
 
Thanks for your reply.  Shame it hasn't got HDMI HD out while recording 4K, but I guess there's an awful lot of processing going on in a very small camera!

In case you haven't seen it posted, one of the current AX100 owners (Mark R) posted recently (here, or maybe it was on the dvinfo forum) that you can use wi-fi and the Sony PlayMemories app on a phone or tablet to monitor during 4K recording. I think that is a reasonable workaround,.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSOffice View Post

@dalemccl
 
Thanks for your reply.  Shame it hasn't got HDMI HD out while recording 4K, but I guess there's an awful lot of processing going on in a very small camera!

To add to my post above I agree. The AX1 will output videdo via HDMI while recording 4k60.......

The Mod Squad: New vs. Classic TV Series Opening https://vimeo.com/63119329
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post #912 of 2102 Old 03-26-2014, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemccl View Post

In case you haven't seen it posted, one of the current AX100 owners (Mark R) posted recently (here, or maybe it was on the dvinfo forum) that you can use wi-fi and the Sony PlayMemories app on a phone or tablet to monitor during 4K recording. I think that is a reasonable workaround,.


Though I would prefer to use one of my monitors I have been using for my other cams.

The Mod Squad: New vs. Classic TV Series Opening https://vimeo.com/63119329
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post #913 of 2102 Old 03-26-2014, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Blasst View Post

Though I would prefer to use one of my monitors I have been using for my other cams.

Me too. I like to have zebras visible during recording indoor stage events. On a 7" external monitor it is easier to spot small areas of over-exposure (like faces) when lighting levels change than it is on the camcorder's smaller screen. I hope the AX100 sends zebras to the phone/tablet app.
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post #914 of 2102 Old 03-26-2014, 05:21 PM
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Blasst, how's it going so far with your AX100?
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post #915 of 2102 Old 03-26-2014, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I found it's not easy finding a good fitting bag for the AX100. I wound up with this one and it fits perfectly with minimum bulk:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/572723-REG/Pearstone_OSC_1040B_Onyx_1040_Digital_Camera_Camcorder.html

Does it still fit with the lens hood?

 

I'm thinking about this one: Sony LCS-U Series Soft Carrying Case for Camcorder (Black)  http://amzn.com/B004LQ1C06

 

I think it is just a little bit longer.

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post #916 of 2102 Old 03-26-2014, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by RobAC View Post


That is the most dramatic fresh water fish tank shot I have seen... I was expecting jaws to make an appearance. Smart Sound music track?

Btw- liking the second daylight video shot. The leaf in between the purple sage (I think it's a type of sage plant,) was pretty cool.

Rob

I've been getting music which use the creative commons license (http://search.creativecommons.org/).  Most of it is free to download, free to use (non-commercially), free to modify, but you need to provide attribution: I use  www.jamendo.com for music.

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post #917 of 2102 Old 03-26-2014, 05:58 PM
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@markr041 Thanks for that, actually thats interesting, although I suspect both the camera battery and smartphone battery would take a hit if the Wifi  live picture was on for a long period?  Thanks for pointing it out though.

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post #918 of 2102 Old 03-26-2014, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Blasst, how's it going so far with your AX100?

Ken,

I shot just a few short clips last night and later this afternoon today. I must say on my 2560x1440 monitor the clips just look absolutely fantastic! I might be shooting a track meet later this weekend so I will be seeing what the AX100 can do for me in that shooting environment. Wish it had the 4k60, but I'll see what I can do. So far just loving the image quality, and that will improve even more once I get a 4k monitor or 4k TV.

I found a solution for getting slow zoom speeds http://store.sony.com/compact-remote-control-tripod-zid27-VCTVPR1/cat-27-catid-All-Camcorders-Accessories?_t=pfm%3Dsearch. I just took the control handle off and mounted it to one of my tripods since they are much better than the Sony.wink.gif I had Sony Style price match B&H and saved $45 bucks just so I could have a control handle with the new multi/micro cable connections that are on the AX100.

The Mod Squad: New vs. Classic TV Series Opening https://vimeo.com/63119329
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post #919 of 2102 Old 03-26-2014, 08:09 PM
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Does it still fit with the lens hood?

Yup, just fits with the lens hood attached.
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post #920 of 2102 Old 03-26-2014, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blasst View Post

Ken,

I shot just a few short clips last night and later this afternoon today. I must say on my 2560x1440 monitor the clips just look absolutely fantastic! I might be shooting a track meet later this weekend so I will be seeing what the AX100 can do for me in that shooting environment. Wish it had the 4k60, but I'll see what I can do. So far just loving the image quality, and that will improve even more once I get a 4k monitor or 4k TV.

Excellent Blasst. Remember, when watching on a large screen HDTV, engage frame doubling and watch how your motion becomes buttery smooth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blasst View Post

I found a solution for getting slow zoom speeds http://store.sony.com/compact-remote-control-tripod-zid27-VCTVPR1/cat-27-catid-All-Camcorders-Accessories?_t=pfm%3Dsearch. I just took the control handle off and mounted it to one of my tripods since they are much better than the Sony.wink.gif I had Sony Style price match B&H and saved $45 bucks just so I could have a control handle with the new multi/micro cable connections that are on the AX100.

Great idea. I actually have an earlier version of that Sony tripod. Not a great tripod, but the variable zoom handle is very nice. I didn't think they made these anymore.
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post #921 of 2102 Old 03-26-2014, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Blasst View Post

...

I found a solution for getting slow zoom speeds http://store.sony.com/compact-remote-control-tripod-zid27-VCTVPR1/cat-27-catid-All-Camcorders-Accessories?_t=pfm%3Dsearch. I just took the control handle off and mounted it to one of my tripods since they are much better than the Sony.wink.gif I had Sony Style price match B&H and saved $45 bucks just so I could have a control handle with the new multi/micro cable connections that are on the AX100.

 

Thanks, I was disappointed that there was no lanc, but now that I know that the new multi connector provides this functionality I am happy again.

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post #922 of 2102 Old 03-27-2014, 05:15 AM
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Bear in mind that Sony do the VPR1 remote control on its own that can be added to any tripod ...

http://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/interchangeable-lens-cameras-tripods-remotes/rm-vpr1

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post #923 of 2102 Old 03-27-2014, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSOffice View Post

Bear in mind that Sony do the VPR1 remote control on its own that can be added to any tripod ...
http://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/interchangeable-lens-cameras-tripods-remotes/rm-vpr1

I looked at the RM-VPR1 and it does not have a dedicated slow zoom switch, while the VCT-VPR1 tripod controller does, plus you can control zoom speed by the pressure on the zoom lever in increments.

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post #924 of 2102 Old 03-27-2014, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomWheeler View Post

Ken,

I agree and that is one reasons why I am also waiting to purchase a 4K monitor. In my case, I am hopeful that Apple will add a 4K monitor to their current lineup of Thunderbolt displays. Purchasing a 4K monitor should around out all of my 4K editing needs for quite a while.

Thank you again for your help and advice.

Tom

Apple itself doesn't make a 4K monitor, but they offer a 4K monitor from another maker for $3600 on their website.
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post #925 of 2102 Old 03-27-2014, 07:28 AM
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OK. Here is the latest update on my situation (well, everyone that has a 2013 Sony 4K TV can use this option) I took back my iMac and exchanged it for a MacBook Pro that has Thunderbolt and HDMI ports. I hooked it up to the Sony 4K TV with a HDMI cable and it does send the 4K to the TV. All the HDMI ports seem to accept it. The only problem I encountered was that when the output is changed to 4K the image on the computer screen (a 15" screen) everything is so small it is almost impossible to make out the controls for the player. It is easier to use keyboard equivalents.

Now, for a different question for everyone with this camera: If anyone has bought the stereo microphone offered by Sony, is the sound better from it or the built in microphone on the FDR AC100? The microphone on the camera indicates it is a surround sound, but the indicator in the viewfinder says 2 channel, not surround. The external microphone that plugs into the top of the camera is just stereo, not surround.
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post #926 of 2102 Old 03-27-2014, 07:34 AM
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Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blasst View Post


I looked at the RM-VPR1 and it does not have a dedicated slow zoom switch, while the VCT-VPR1 tripod controller does, plus you can control zoom speed by the pressure on the zoom lever in increments.

 

Oooh interesting! I hadn't realised that subtle difference.  Thanks for pointing that out.

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post #927 of 2102 Old 03-27-2014, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chenderson2 View Post

Now, for a different question for everyone with this camera: If anyone has bought the stereo microphone offered by Sony, is the sound better from it or the built in microphone on the FDR AC100? The microphone on the camera indicates it is a surround sound, but the indicator in the viewfinder says 2 channel, not surround. The external microphone that plugs into the top of the camera is just stereo, not surround.

Not sure, but it may be that 4K recording is only offered with 2 channel sound. It may be that the 4K is so data intensive, there's no room left for 5.1.

I'm pretty happy with the sound from the AX100, so I have no immediate plans to get the aux mike.
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post #928 of 2102 Old 03-27-2014, 08:02 AM
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The audio format for 4K is PCM - uncompressed audio. 5.1 surround uses compression (AC3). The bitrate for the stereo PCM audio is much higher than the total 5.1 audio bitrate (per channel of course it is really low).

So in 4K you get both a better picture and higher-quality, uncompressed (stereo) sound. The stereo "codec" is better than CD-quality as it uses a higher sampling rate (48KHz versus 44.1).
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post #929 of 2102 Old 03-27-2014, 10:22 AM
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So Mark, are you saying that 5.1 is not possible with this iteration of 4K or was simply not chosen by Sony to tag along with 4K? Given the lower bitrate of 5.1, it seems more of a conscious choice than anything.

I hadn't thought about the bitrate for PCM, but now that you mention it, you're right, it is uncompressed and therefore the data rate should be a lot higher.
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post #930 of 2102 Old 03-27-2014, 11:02 AM
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Sony seems to have selected PCM stereo audio as part of its definition of XAVC S. When I converted the PXW Z100 original clips (which were some odd codec) choosing the XAVC S option in Sony Vegas, the audio was PCM. The PCM bitrate is 1536 Kbps; that for 5.1 AC3 is typically around 500 Kbps for all the channels combined! EOS M audio is also stereo PCM as is that for the BMPCC. It is the pro standard in video.
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