Sony 4K Handycam FDR-AX100 thread - Page 43 - AVS Forum
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Camcorders > Sony 4K Handycam FDR-AX100 thread
Greenwavepaul's Avatar Greenwavepaul 12:55 AM 04-11-2014
Quote:
Greenwavepaul, you must have the 1st AX100E delivered in the world!

Even Sony UKs website still says "Preorder"

I'm green with envy if you have. It looks like Sony Australia isn't even going to import it!

Cheers,

Vaughan Wood


I was surprised myself that i was served so soon. I ordered it end of january at Sony webstore.
Hope you get it soon down under. Cheers mate.

flintyplus's Avatar flintyplus 01:27 AM 04-11-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by SD90 View Post

Below is my idea of accurate, same as the human eye sees color - it's straight out of the camera footage from my Canon T3i back in 2011.

Yes i have to agree with you i had this camera and now use an EOS M as well as normal cams,Mark has or had an an EOS M i guess he perfers the AX100 color ? but although i like AX100 color in some respects from what i have seen i still prefer the EOS M color.
Ken Ross's Avatar Ken Ross 05:52 AM 04-11-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by SD90 View Post

Below is my idea of accurate, same as the human eye sees color - it's straight out of the camera footage from my Canon T3i back in 2011.

And if that was an accurate depiction of the scene's color, the AX100 would have been able to capture it too.

I think you really need to look objectively at the responses you're getting from all of the owners here. Many of these owners have years and years of experience with video and photography and have owned many different cameras. One is a professional photographer who showed you frame grabs of the same scene, shot with a highly respected DSLR and the AX100. None of them share your opinion. Why?

When your view is so divergent from the rest, when posted video after posted video shows absolutely nothing like what you're claiming (orange-brown colors) and only natural, believable colors, then it's time to step back and at least acknowledge the possibility that your concept of 'natural colors' is quite different than that of ours.

There's nothing wrong with that, but to say that it takes so much work in post to simply get 'half accurate color' with the AX100, is just silly. On the prior two pages alone, the posted videos and frame grabs prove you wrong.
Ken Ross's Avatar Ken Ross 06:11 AM 04-11-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by pstrauss View Post

I've had nothing but high quality, natural color from my AX100 so far. I think that some people might prefer the pumped up colors and contrast they're used to seeing on displays they way they come with their settings all cranked up from the factory. There might be a time and a place for that look - maybe something stylized like a music video - but I think that should always be done in post.

Precisely. A good example is people sometimes ask me if they should get their HDTV professionally ISF'd. I don't always give the same answer depending upon how well I know their tastes. SD90 is precisely the kind of person I'd give an emphatic 'NO!' to that question. He would probably find the colors too warm, too muted and not at all to his liking.

Just as you said, TV manufacturers have conditioned people to expect overly saturated, overly contrasty and totally inaccurate colors, contrast and brightness. The pity is most of these displays are capable of far better results. What I tell some people is to use the settings on their TV that gets them closest to an accurate picture (THX, warm etc.), not the out-of-the-box settings. I then tell them to live with that for one week and not change anything. After one week go back to the settings you had been using and tell me what you think.

At that point, most will find it hard to believe they were watching such a garish picture, but a few will still say they like their original settings better. There's nothing you can do for that smaller group, they're lost. wink.gif
Greenwavepaul's Avatar Greenwavepaul 06:18 AM 04-11-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD90 View Post

Below is my idea of accurate, same as the human eye sees color - it's straight out of the camera footage from my Canon T3i back in 2011.

And if that was an accurate depiction of the scene's color, the AX100 would have been able to capture it too.

I think you really need to look objectively at the responses you're getting from all of the owners here. Many of these owners have years and years of experience with video and photography and have owned many different cameras. One is a professional photographer who showed you frame grabs of the same scene, shot with a highly respected DSLR and the AX100. None of them share your opinion. Why?

When your view is so divergent from the rest, when posted video after posted video shows absolutely nothing like what you're claiming (orange-brown colors) and only natural, believable colors, then it's time to step back and at least acknowledge the possibility that your concept of 'natural colors' is quite different than that of ours.

There's nothing wrong with that, but to say that it takes so much work in post to simply get 'half accurate color' with the AX100, is just silly. On the prior two pages alone, the posted videos and frame grabs prove you wrong.


I'm still busy learning the camera, but i also tried to do some minor corrections in FCPX. It takes not much to raise the saturation a little, to balance the highlights and crushing the blacks a bit (for some shots). In particular for landscapes, green and nature shots this can make the overall image impression from the ax100 even better.
It's easy and it doesn't take a lot of time. You can find very nice tutorials on the internet to learn color correction for diferent NLE's. Once you understand the basics, it's no big deal.

If the weather is good next w.e. I will take some nature shots in the "blue forest" (the forest floor at this time of the year is covered with flowers) edit and process them. Hope to share it next week or so.
bsprague's Avatar bsprague 06:32 AM 04-11-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

Just for fun: Home run in 4K

Frame grab:


If you shot that from an angle that showed the batter's facial expression, printed, framed it and gave it to parents, wife or girlfriend they would love you for life. Hung on a wall or placed on a desk, photos are easy to look at and are constant reminders of fun moments. Viewing video clips takes a little more work to get loaded and watched, so are easily forgotten.

Bill
Blasst's Avatar Blasst 03:20 PM 04-11-2014
That first video I posted I used major color correction tools in post.

Here are a few shots without the color monkey doing his thing.....along with a repeat shot with the color changes.

William Chiu's Avatar William Chiu 10:49 PM 04-11-2014
sample of picture effect at POP

http://youtu.be/_-4Zp3WrqcA
Greenwavepaul's Avatar Greenwavepaul 12:51 PM 04-13-2014

Hi, what SD cards are you guys using?

 

 

I have some thoughts about the cards i use.

 

I have a SANDISK EXREME PRO SDXC class 10 card, UHS-1, 95MB/s. 

I also have a lower performing card SANDISK EXTREME SDXC class 10, UHS-1, 45MB/s. 

 

Both cards seem to perform well, but i wander if the slower card (45MB/s) has some disadvantages when making camera movements (less smooth?)

 

I recently noticed that SANDISK has new high-performing (and expensive!) cards on the market: UHS-II at 280mb/s. I think these cards have no sense for the AX100, they are probably there for the GH4. 

 

What are your thoughts? 

 

Paul (Greenwave)


William Chiu's Avatar William Chiu 02:31 PM 04-13-2014
paul

are you seeing more jiggles with cards that are rated slower than the SDXC 95mbs sandisk?
i have only used a SDXC 30mbs sandisk 128GB card since the start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenwavepaul View Post

Hi, what SD cards are you guys using?


I have some thoughts about the cards i use.

I have a SANDISK EXREME PRO SDXC class 10 card, UHS-1, 95MB/s. 
I also have a lower performing card SANDISK EXTREME SDXC class 10, UHS-1, 45MB/s. 

Both cards seem to perform well, but i wander if the slower card (45MB/s) has some disadvantages when making camera movements (less smooth?)

I recently noticed that SANDISK has new high-performing (and expensive!) cards on the market: UHS-II at 280mb/s. I think these cards have no sense for the AX100, they are probably there for the GH4. 

What are your thoughts? 

Paul (Greenwave)

Ken Ross's Avatar Ken Ross 03:45 PM 04-13-2014
Paul, I don't think you'll see any change in panning with a faster card. If the slower card is performing well otherwise, save yourself some money and stick with it.
hatchback's Avatar hatchback 05:43 PM 04-13-2014
Ken is right. Rolling shutter is caused by the delay in reading out all the lines from the sensor. Once the lines are read out, they are combined into a single frame. Then that frame is written to the memory card. So the speed of the memory card has no effect on rolling shutter.
vbwood's Avatar vbwood 07:11 PM 04-13-2014

Post a Reply

The only advantage to faster cards is faster uploading data to a computer.

 

eg., a 64GB 45MBs card takes approx. 13 minutes to upload with USB 3, makes a big difference (to me at 11.30 at night) only waiting 6 and 1/2 minutes for a 90MB card to do the same thing!

 

Cheers,

 

Vaughan


vbwood's Avatar vbwood 09:14 PM 04-13-2014
Quote:
 ~~Here's an 11 minute, quickly edited video

Hi Ken,

 

I can only get about two seconds of this to play, in either HD or SD. Is it O.K. for anyone else?

 

Cheers,

 

Vaughan

 

EDIT: Never mind, my internet connection is VERY slow today!


Eugene157's Avatar Eugene157 09:18 PM 04-13-2014
Bought all my SDXC cards, 3 different brands , 64GB ea at Newegg, none slower than 50MB/sec (400Mb) and all for under $30 ea. A few brands will do 90MB/sec.


Tested with HDtune via a USB3 adapter. My front panel computer SD slot is only USB 2 and thus will not go much over 20MB/sec.

Gene
leamas's Avatar leamas 02:03 AM 04-14-2014
Hi guys, I am a reader of this forum but didn't post anything yet. I am a passionate videographer, I am from Romania but already own the AX100 and am very satisfied with it. I just have one issue / concern about:

For the moment I own a Panasonic VT30 plasma and a computer that can handle 4K. The plasma is set to do frame interpolation (Intelligent Frame Creation is the name for Panasonic - they say it can handle 600 Hz) but in some scenes that involve zoom or motion, some parts of the screen (especially trees branches) produce a flickering effect. It's clear it is because of the 30p (I didn't encounter this on my previous camera, Panasonic TM900 doing 50p), but my question to you guys is: can this effect be totally avoided? Is there anybody having a HD screen that solves this using the frame interpolation feature? I saw the clips on a 4K Sony TV in a store and there it's not noticeable. If this effect can be eliminated, the AX100 is really a great camera.
P&Struefan's Avatar P&Struefan 04:01 AM 04-14-2014
You had me confused. Is your electricity in your country 50Hz or 60Hz? You say your TV system is 60Hz and seem to say your AX100 is NTSC (30p).
leamas's Avatar leamas 04:55 AM 04-14-2014
We are PAL area, so 50 Hz, but the TV of course supports 60 Hz too. So I use 60 Hz on the TV. And the camera is from US, so 30p. The TV handles some frame interpolation up to 600 Hz, as they advertise.
Bixbe's Avatar Bixbe 06:14 AM 04-14-2014
Inspired by Eugene I decided to play with Power Director today. He uses PD to produce and edit 4K from the AX100. Waiting for the european version of AX100E I am eager to display the edited files as good as possible. I produced a 4K MP4 25p Movie in PD from my 1080/50p files and copied the Movie to a USB-stick. My TV:s can play m2ts from a USB but the 4K did not play. Then I tried the USB-stick in my Dune HD Base 3D media player and it played the 4K just fine! I prefer the quality of the Dune oompared to the pc offers (WMP, MPC-HC, XBOX; PowerDVD and VLC).
P&Struefan's Avatar P&Struefan 08:58 AM 04-14-2014
There still are too many unknowns before we can start to pinpoint the problems. For instance, what kind of hardware output from your computer (Mac or PC? specs?) into your TV (1080p? 4K maybe not?) which I assume you have been using as your monitor. Then there's the output itself and at what resolution displayed on the TV from your computer, not the native clips from the AX100 itself,. etc, etc.

If you have any issues with displaying the AX100's videos on your TV set via a direct HDMI hookup to your camera maybe others who have the AX100 can chime in. I don't have the camera but plan to get one when available here in a PAL land. In my area virtually all the consumers HDTVs are 50 Hz only though all the DVD and Blu-ray players are dual-system.
yalag's Avatar yalag 09:32 AM 04-14-2014
Hey does anyone know how the AX100 compares to the blackmagic 4k camera? That camera will have a larger sensor I think but I guess the AX100 is a better form factor for handheld? I'm trying to make a decision on a 4k video camera and I'm not really sure. Thanks!
RobAC's Avatar RobAC 09:55 AM 04-14-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

So great news for any owner of an AX100 that's considering a UHD TV. I just got back from BB to see how the just released, 2014 Samsung UHD TV would handle a 4K edited file...

Funny story- stopped into the local bb with a couple buddies of mine to check out the latest electronics they have. We checked the 4k UHDs they had on display and was mesmerized by them. They had some demo showing fruits in a bowl and a person's hand on screen every now and then, My buddy liked the details but then said the following:

"I don't like seeing the wrinkles and stuff on the person's hand. It's distracting."

I almost fell over laughing. Apparently it was too "real" and he preferred the fake smoothness and retouched scenes.
I explained to him that he needs to re-train his brain on what he was seeing. For instance take a look at this own hand. See the wrinkles, pores and scars and so on he had accumulated over his lifetime?
Now we are able to see these details on 4k screens as it really is. True to life, blemishes and all.

In movies and tv shows I can put my brain on hold and not worry too much about any such missing details- but when I shoot a scene I personally want those raw details to be captured and shown on playback.

Rob
Ken Ross's Avatar Ken Ross 10:16 AM 04-14-2014
I hear ya Rob. Interestingly, when you read some of the comments from some people on different forums, they too don't like that real detail. That's why they prefer a 'dreamy, creamy' look. They call it 'film-like', I call it soft with less detail. wink.gif
Eugene157's Avatar Eugene157 10:20 AM 04-14-2014
Good morning.

FWIW.

I put a review on Sonys web site, praising the video performance of the AX100 but criticizing the OIS, focus performance and lack of video adjustments. It was on their web site a few days later but now is gone.

So if you give your opinion make sure it is positive only. An other reviewer had the same gripe and he is gone too

An other forum member mentioned PD12, I find ,that for the money, it is the editor to use with 4K. Since it uses proxy editing, there is not that much of a CPU load so my 3 year old computer has no problems.

They key is to give the computer a head start to build the proxy files, they are SD resolution.

Eugene
RobAC's Avatar RobAC 10:27 AM 04-14-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by William Chiu View Post

just got the Sony GP-VPT1 hand grip / table tripod with firing buttons and zoom.

Hey Bill and also everyone else who knows- I am looking at this Sony remote tripod- specifically the remote handle: http://store.sony.com/compact-remote-control-tripod-zid27-VCTVPR1/cat-27-catid-All-Camcorders-Accessories?_t=pfm%3Dcategory

Is there a better handle than this that will mate up to a Manfrotto or RSS fluid head (like the one you just got from RSS, impressive.)
I am heavily leaning towards the newest 4 section Manfrotto 190 tripod also.

Never had an tripod / fluid head combo before, still learning what the heck all the features and details are.
But I want the bestest I can get right off the bat without having to waste time upgrading later on.
(I''l grab the one above as a cheap one for my existing older camcorder and the newer head / tripod combo for the AX100 when that comes in.)

In other words I am inviting strangers on the internet to spend my money for me ! ha

thanks.

Rob
Bixbe's Avatar Bixbe 11:49 AM 04-14-2014
I need to correct myself after more evaluation. I downloaded some 4K AX100 files from Vimeo and they look great from my 1080p TV + Windows 8.1 XBox player. Then I copied these files to a USB-stick and a HDD and played them in the Dune HD Base 3D and the copies look worse with jaggies, aliasing and stutter. I guess I have to stick with the pc:s until 4k media players come to market.
William Chiu's Avatar William Chiu 11:52 AM 04-14-2014
hi rob,

that sony tripod does not have a fluid head. it is meant for the camera or camcorder to be locked down and shoot.
as you know, you need a fluid head to pan and tilt without the problems a sensitive camcorder like our 4K AX100 has with run and gun work.

yes, you can hand hold with active steady shot and the results are not too bad, but you do lose that 4K resolution when you do so.
if you are delivering 1080p, then that may not be a problem but the results are not true 4K to 1080p.

So I bought the RRS fluid head and after a week plus, it matches well with the AX100. it does not have the rock solid hold as my Sachtler heads, but those are heavier and cost double what the RRS does.

Although the AX100 is small, it is quite heavy and when mated with the XLR-K1M or other attachments, you begin to really want a more solid fluid head.

I have tried many video heads in the past, the Sachtlers have worked really well for my PWM-EX3 XDCAMs and DSLR rigs and maybe overkill for the AX100.
I also have used the Sachtler Ace line tripod+fluid head setups and i would recommend that you look into this as an alternative to the RRS.
They are smoother with pans and tilts than many of the $300 to $1000 setups out there, across many makes.

cheers,

This is one of the Sachtler ACE in my tool kit. I use this with the GH3 mainly.
http://*******/VymUiU


Quote:
Originally Posted by RobAC View Post

Hey Bill and also everyone else who knows- I am looking at this Sony remote tripod- specifically the remote handle: http://store.sony.com/compact-remote-control-tripod-zid27-VCTVPR1/cat-27-catid-All-Camcorders-Accessories?_t=pfm%3Dcategory

Is there a better handle than this that will mate up to a Manfrotto or RSS fluid head (like the one you just got from RSS, impressive.)
I am heavily leaning towards the newest 4 section Manfrotto 190 tripod also.

Never had an tripod / fluid head combo before, still learning what the heck all the features and details are.
But I want the bestest I can get right off the bat without having to waste time upgrading later on.
(I''l grab the one above as a cheap one for my existing older camcorder and the newer head / tripod combo for the AX100 when that comes in.)

In other words I am inviting strangers on the internet to spend my money for me ! ha

thanks.

Rob

William Chiu's Avatar William Chiu 12:00 PM 04-14-2014
what type of videos do you take?
vacation, sports, studio, indy films or family?

the BM4K and the AX100 are really made for different uses. There are some overlaps, but for one the BM4K is not a run and gun action camera.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yalag View Post

Hey does anyone know how the AX100 compares to the blackmagic 4k camera? That camera will have a larger sensor I think but I guess the AX100 is a better form factor for handheld? I'm trying to make a decision on a 4k video camera and I'm not really sure. Thanks!

yalag's Avatar yalag 12:02 PM 04-14-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by William Chiu View Post

what type of videos do you take?
vacation, sports, studio, indy films or family?

the BM4K and the AX100 are really made for different uses. There are some overlaps, but for one the BM4K is not a run and gun action camera.

I'm really planning to do the walk around shots, it's for vacation around europe. So it sounds like AX100 is the way to go?
William Chiu's Avatar William Chiu 12:13 PM 04-14-2014
yes, if it is 4K you want, then the AX100 is a great travel companion. The BM4K needs a tripod pretty much all the time.
You can wait for the Panasonic GH4 with 4K internal recording. That too looks to be a terrific travel 4K camera and it can be even better for you if you have a collection of camera lens.
There are minor issues with using the GH4 over the AX100. For one, the setup with the GH4 will be larger and heavier. You will need to sometimes clean the sensor in the GH4 where the AX100 is sealed.
The benefits with the GH4 will be it's flexibility. For one, you can use a Leica 0.95 lens with it. Imagine the creative possibility if you are making artsy stuff.

If it's fun spur of the moment vacation shots that requires no setup time, the AX100 has work well for us.

sample of vacation use:
http://youtu.be/gZv9vS0wXwo

one taken at night in DC
http://youtu.be/o-iq1ZPrE48

a serious one locked on a tripod
http://youtu.be/tzh-jqhnjUA

this one taken out of a car window near park
http://youtu.be/_-4Zp3WrqcA



hope this helps




Quote:
Originally Posted by yalag View Post

I'm really planning to do the walk around shots, it's for vacation around europe. So it sounds like AX100 is the way to go?

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