Sony 4K Handycam FDR-AX100 thread - Page 71 - AVS Forum
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post #2101 of 2574 Old 07-09-2014, 02:19 PM
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I use a B+H nano filter as recommended by William Chiu ( he qualifies as seasoned), has good ratings and not expensive. I rather scratch up the filter than the camera lens. Much cheaper.

Yes, the Vivitar brand of batteries I use show time left and charge with the camera.. Camera manufacturers added a chip to their batteries so they can be identified. It appears that the off brand battery makers simply added a chip too.
In most cases the different off brands sold are made by the same manufacturer. Use the 100, while it roughly doubles the amp hours over the 70 it will give you at least a 3 fold increase of operating time.

I would strongly urge to buy batteries and charger.

Eugene

Last edited by Eugene157; 07-09-2014 at 02:45 PM.
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post #2102 of 2574 Old 07-09-2014, 06:07 PM
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Here are a couple of links to the filter Billy posted about.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ANO_Clear.html
http://www.amazon.com/62mm-XS-Pro-Cl...g=billyccom-20

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post #2103 of 2574 Old 07-10-2014, 04:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene157 View Post
I would strongly urge to buy batteries and charger.

Eugene
Why the charger, if they charge also with the original one?
I bought a 100 replacement battery, can't wait to go home and test it. I hope it won't burn my camera...
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post #2104 of 2574 Old 07-10-2014, 10:22 AM
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I try to NEVER NEVER NEVER charge a battery in the camera, just too much risk with ANY battery plus tying up the camera.

I have 4 100 batteries and two chargers. A run down 100 battery can take 8 hrs to charge at 0.5 Amps. For the 100 battery that is app 10% of capacity, perfect to avoid overheating. When I travel I have used up as many as 3 batteries a day, takes all night to charge them again.

I bought my batts on ebay, a lot of sellers have a 2ea FV-100 batt and charger combo for less than $50.00 plus free shipping. Chargers go for less than $10.00. I use the Vivitar brand.

And my ebay charger will work fine with the Sony battery.

I think it is absolute greed not to include a $ 5.00 charger (their cost) with a $2000.00 camera !!

Good luck

Eugene
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post #2105 of 2574 Old 07-11-2014, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene157 View Post
I try to NEVER NEVER NEVER charge a battery in the camera, just too much risk with ANY battery plus tying up the camera.

I have 4 100 batteries and two chargers. A run down 100 battery can take 8 hrs to charge at 0.5 Amps. For the 100 battery that is app 10% of capacity, perfect to avoid overheating. When I travel I have used up as many as 3 batteries a day, takes all night to charge them again.

I bought my batts on ebay, a lot of sellers have a 2ea FV-100 batt and charger combo for less than $50.00 plus free shipping. Chargers go for less than $10.00. I use the Vivitar brand.

And my ebay charger will work fine with the Sony battery.

I think it is absolute greed not to include a $ 5.00 charger (their cost) with a $2000.00 camera !!

Good luck

Eugene
Ok, understood your point. My idea was to try to be as light as possible when travelling (too many things, chargers, accessories...). But I will think about this. On the other side, I think you can never be 100% safe when charging the Sony original battery with a third party charger but hopefully these small devices have all sorts of protections that will prevent disasters...
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post #2106 of 2574 Old 07-11-2014, 07:24 AM
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Yes, I also got the same filter Billy recommended.. I also got a few of his other recommendations for fluid heads and tripods etc. and am very happy with them.

This thread is great for picking up quality equipment.
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post #2107 of 2574 Old 07-11-2014, 07:55 AM
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Oh yes- I finally !! picked up an AX-100 last week and ordered a small boatload of new equipment to go with it. Just now learning about the many settings and using the recommendations from Mark, Ken and everyone here and it makes it so much easier.

When I get time I'll list some of the equipment and my impressions on them.

About backup batteries - the NP-FV70 that comes with it reads around 2hrs fully charged. I also picked up a couple FV-100 clones and a travel charger from Amazon. Fully charged they show 4hrs. However after letting them sit with the camera for a few days I notice they lose their charge and go down to 3+ hrs. (They are rated at 7.4V 5900mAH)

So be careful what off-brand you get. Also for the AX-100 the larger FV-100 fits nicely and does not stick out the back compared to using it with my older PJ710.

I will be ordering a couple official Sony branded lith-ion NP-FV100 and also ordering the following Dual charger to keep on eye on what the cells are actually doing: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...arger_for.html

The above dual charger chargers both batteries at the same time. The official Sony "dual" charger apparently only chargers one battery at a time- go figure.
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post #2108 of 2574 Old 07-11-2014, 10:35 AM
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After reading a previous comment I checked my 4 batteries that were charged about 6-7 weeks ago. The one in the camera shows 3hrs 8 min (having used the camera for app.5 min), the others are from 3:45 to 3:57, so they are holding up well. All 4 batteries have had about 8 cycles, they are numbered and rotated in use, I do not bother to use the Sony FV-70. These batteries improve after a few cycles.

The display is set to high, unfortunately the EVF is rather dim and can not be adjusted.

Do not assume that, because the camera says x hrs. that you will get that. That number is probably close with the camera continuously recording but I find that in my typical usage I am lucky to get half. A lot of power is lost setting up shots, typically only 10 to 20% of my camera on time is in actual record mode. I change batteries when down to about 30 min, not wanting the camera to run out of power while recording.

As to different manufacturers, most of the batteries on Ebay are likely made by the the same manufacturer and then packaged by smaller outfits.

Eugene

Last edited by Eugene157; 07-11-2014 at 10:58 AM.
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post #2109 of 2574 Old 07-11-2014, 04:17 PM
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Pardon the interruption: Dragonfly in the Garden

https://vimeo.com/100549453


4K video frame grab:


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post #2110 of 2574 Old 07-11-2014, 05:19 PM
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That's a 'wow' video Mark. The color and detail are just stunning in 4K. Is that the pulse we're seeing in the dragonfly? There's a rhythmic beating under the head that gives me that impression...but I'll defer to any entomologists on the forum.
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post #2111 of 2574 Old 07-11-2014, 07:41 PM
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"Wow", was my reaction too.

How close and manual focus?

If auto was it V2?

Gene
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post #2112 of 2574 Old 07-11-2014, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene157 View Post
"Wow", was my reaction too.

How close and manual focus?

If auto was it V2?

Gene

Thanks. I used mainly manual focus, not because autofocus is bad but to ensure that the camera would focus on what I wanted given how close I was in most cases. I used both focus peaking and magnification (the latter was mainly useful for flowers to see which part of the flower was exactly in focus in close ups). I was about 3 feet from the dragonfly, who did not seem to mind my presence. I wanted to get as close as possible to minimize shake that is amplified at telephoto lengths. Active mode IS was on.
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post #2113 of 2574 Old 07-12-2014, 12:23 AM
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Wow video? Guys - seriously. I've been following this thread since start.
The only thing you guys seem to do is filming your own gardens. 90% of videos are with green content.
No grading, no personality, shaky, oversaturated etc etc. Come on! Be creative and do something good with this camera.
Please - less gardens, less lawn mowers in background, less wind noise more tripods/monopods and story.
You have nice cameras - use them for something useful!!

Sorry if I sound naggy and bitchy but seriously?
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post #2114 of 2574 Old 07-12-2014, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by aholck View Post
Wow video? Guys - seriously. I've been following this thread since start.
The only thing you guys seem to do is filming your own gardens. 90% of videos are with green content.
No grading, no personality, shaky, oversaturated etc etc. Come on! Be creative and do something good with this camera.
Please - less gardens, less lawn mowers in background, less wind noise more tripods/monopods and story.
You have nice cameras - use them for something useful!!

Sorry if I sound naggy and bitchy but seriously?
Seriously? Please post some of your best works so that we can all 'go to school' on your art of filming.

Sorry if I sound a bit dubious, but seriously?

What a great first post to endear yourself to the community.
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post #2115 of 2574 Old 07-12-2014, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aholck View Post
Wow video? Guys - seriously. I've been following this thread since start.
The only thing you guys seem to do is filming your own gardens. 90% of videos are with green content.
No grading, no personality, shaky, oversaturated etc etc. Come on! Be creative and do something good with this camera.
Please - less gardens, less lawn mowers in background, less wind noise more tripods/monopods and story.
You have nice cameras - use them for something useful!!

Sorry if I sound naggy and bitchy but seriously?

1. The video has gotten 3 likes on the Vimeo site since posted on Vimeo (none from posters here), the fastest addition of likes I have seen for any of my videos. It immediately got a thumbs up on DPReview (there are few of those). The point is that some people like this kind of not "useful" video.
2. Thus, what is not "useful" to you is obviously "useful" to others. As in often the case.
3. More seriously, your claim that the AX100 videos are "oversaturated" is without merit. There is one standard for saturation - the colors at the site. On my calibrated monitor, the colors match exactly what I saw when I shot the video. Indeed, I was tempted to shoot by the gorgeous sunlit colors I saw.
4. Thus, your notion of saturation is subjective, while mine is objective - relationship to reality. It is ok to prefer undersaturated, "graded" videos as a matter of aesthetics. It is ok to call for more of those. But to claim that graded videos are the only "useful" videos, or imply that music soundtracks always trump real ambient sound, and one always needs a narrative arc, is just your preference (which is fine).
5. You might look at the thread Report from the Field: the Sony AX100, which has no backyard videos. The story line is young man visits exotic places and provides a view of what he saw (in 4K!). There is much less green, and some pink (flamingos). More videos in that thread will be posted, from non-touristic mainland China.

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post #2116 of 2574 Old 07-12-2014, 08:21 AM
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1. The video has gotten 3 likes on the Vimeo site since posted on Vimeo (none from posters here), the fastest addition of likes I have seen for any of my videos. It immediately got a thumbs up on DPReview (there are few of those). The point is that some people like this kind of not "useful" video.
2. Thus, what is not "useful" to you is obviously "useful" to others. As in often the case.
3. More seriously, your claim that the AX100 videos are "oversaturated" is without merit. There is one standard for saturation - the colors at the site. On my calibrated monitor, the colors match exactly what I saw when I shot the video. Indeed, I was tempted to shoot by the gorgeous sunlit colors I saw.
4. Thus, your notion of saturation is subjective, while mine is objective - relationship to reality. It is ok to prefer undersaturated, "graded" videos as a matter of aesthetics. It is ok to call for more of those. But to claim that graded videos are the only "useful" videos, or imply that music soundtracks always trump real ambient sound, and one always needs a narrative arc, is just your preference (which is fine).
5. You might look at the thread Report from the Field: the Sony AX100, which has no backyard videos. The story line is young man visits exotic places and provides a view of what he saw (in 4K!). There is much less green, and some pink (flamingos). More videos in that thread will be posted, from non-touristic mainland China.
1) Sure - because those type of videos is the only boring stuff people share. Same same same always! Flowers etc etc. Same with other brands of cameras. Nothing specific of AX100.
2) This might be true. Esp in low-res vimeovideo If it would be 4k.
3) Yes, I do have a calibrated screen as well. But I love to see that everyone ALWAYS seem to have a calibrated screen once attacked by bad grading etc etc etc.
Of course I have a merit. I have an AX100 myself and the colors default are both inaccurate and awful. This cameras footage requires grading. This is pure eye candy with oversaturated colors. This is nothing Im alone claiming.
You pull out soo many details from this camera once you lower saturation.
See the difference between sharpness and detail. This camera lacks detail but has sharpness. Lowering saturation gives more detailed footage from this specific camera.
4) I don't like undersaturated footage. I like a well balanced image with a personal touch. Not over saturated.
5) Thank you for the tip. I do have other forums w/o Ken which are brilliant but I'll check that thread.

// A
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post #2117 of 2574 Old 07-12-2014, 08:43 AM
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Good morning all!

There is a point here.
I have seen "garden" videos before, some better, some worse but the shots of the insect surpass all. In my mind at least"wow, stunning etc" is fully qualified. The dragonfly shots are equal to this gold standard I use. Different camera of course, but shows what the video format can do.

A must see.



Aholk could have been a bit more diplomatic in his first post.

Eugene

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post #2118 of 2574 Old 07-12-2014, 09:17 AM
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Yes Ken, I like candy, for the eye as well as the regular type.

The sad part is that Aholk probably could have contributed to this forum if only he had not used the "nuclear option" in his posts.

The video also highlights the shortcoming of the AX100 4K recording format, any motion either from the camera or wind and the detail goes out the window.

Great China video Mark, we were there a few month ago, I have to learn to include closeups.

Eugene

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post #2119 of 2574 Old 07-12-2014, 10:34 AM
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Eugene, the interesting thing about motion video and resolution is that it's often a two-pronged issue. Video displays can potentially suffer from this same loss of resolution with motion. It wasn't until comparatively recently that some display reviews began noting motion resolution. It can be so bad with some displays so as to drop a static resolution of over 1500 line down to 500 or less with motion.

So it's a good question as to how much our acquisition device (camera) or display is contributing to what we're seeing with motion.
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post #2120 of 2574 Old 07-12-2014, 11:35 AM
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http://www.cnet.com/news/counting-bl...tion-on-hdtvs/

Yes of course, good point. There are some test patterns to evaluate that, will try to get some. Would be nice to put some numbers on that.

This is of interest too. FPD Benchmark Software for the Professional Information

I downloaded this file: Test1.mp4, watch out for unwanted stuff! Tried to put the clean file in here but will not accept MP4 files.

The file is interlaced 1080i, that is a problem.

Eugene

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post #2121 of 2574 Old 07-12-2014, 04:49 PM
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Ken,
Testing with the Motion Monoscope Test Pattern was very interesting when comparing the in motion resolution of the pc monitor and the Vizio TV.

The Vizio XTV 553 SV has a adjustable Smooth Motion Effect that used to be in the off position. Static horz. resolution in both the pc monitor and the TV is a good 800 lines. Once the test pattern begins to move that drops to about 400 lines.
With the Vizio Smooth Motion Effect adjusted to medium the resolution increases to app 700 lines. The improvement is startling, but not quite as pristine as when the motion stops.

The Window Media Player has the cleanest video followed by the VLC and last the MPC-HC player.
The video file is 1920x1080i.

Not sure if this makes any difference with real life video, or causes other video mayhem, but I will find out.

Eugene

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post #2122 of 2574 Old 07-12-2014, 06:49 PM
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Interesting results Eugene. Finding the settings that work best should help improve the motion resolution results you get with not just the AX100, but virtually any video source you have connected to your displays.

It was Gary Merson (the HD Guru) who first brought the issue of a display's motion resolution to the public's attention. Gary lived close to our prior home and had done an ISF calibration on my first HD display.

This shows how imperfect our displays can be and how we can often wind up blaming other equipment for the flaws that are inherent in our displays. Of course the AX100, as is the case with most other video cameras, will most certainly lose some resolution with motion. The trick is to find the settings that maximize the quality of our entire video chain...not always an easy task!
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post #2123 of 2574 Old 07-13-2014, 07:50 AM
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C'mon guys, that was a funny post by aholck. It's true. With all due respect, I've been following this thread and other threads for a while. I'm sold on the fact that the AX100 is the camera to use for garden, insect, duck, and serene videos from HK. But the challenge is that I can't really think of the last time a garden, insect, duck, or serene video from HK didn't look good -- even in 1080p.
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post #2124 of 2574 Old 07-14-2014, 05:00 AM
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Does anyone here know if the AX100 have uncompressed HDMI output? If so, is it at least 8-bit 4:2:2?

Is there an adapter to convert the hot-shoe into a standard hot-shoe?
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post #2125 of 2574 Old 07-14-2014, 06:49 AM
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Does anyone here know if the AX100 have uncompressed HDMI output? If so, is it at least 8-bit 4:2:2?

Is there an adapter to convert the hot-shoe into a standard hot-shoe?
1) No. It outputs a clean 4:2:0 8-bit signal in resolution depending on what you selected (or auto detect 1080/2160)
2) I bought a cold shoe to mount a Zoom external recorder since the internal microphone can only be used for reference sound.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-Multi-I...item2a3f5fe981

This might not be your option if you need the hotshoe option but for mount only this is the way to go.

// A

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post #2126 of 2574 Old 07-14-2014, 07:03 AM
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Interesting,

1) No answers to what I wrote. Just denial as usual.
2) Called a troll and reported - still no answers. That's pretty bad. But - hey - what can I expect?
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post #2127 of 2574 Old 07-14-2014, 07:37 AM
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Interesting,

1) No answers to what I wrote. Just denial as usual.
2) Called a troll and reported - still no answers. That's pretty bad. But - hey - what can I expect?
I was going to post a reply to your earlier post where you suggested this was a boring forum where the only thing people do is film their green gardens.

I've followed and attempted to participate here for a couple years. It has been obvious to me that this forum is about equipment. It is less about documentaries. People don't write shooting plans or scripts, hire crews, find actors, cater the food, etc. The purpose here is primarily aimed at sharing what consumer video cameras can do. In fact, even adjusting or "grading" the color is frowned on because it can hide the "true performance" of a camera.

For "creative" documentaries, I suggest you comb Vimeo where there is an abundance of style, emotion and visual inventiveness.
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post #2128 of 2574 Old 07-14-2014, 07:39 AM
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Yes Ken, I like candy, for the eye as well as the regular type.

The sad part is that Aholk probably could have contributed to this forum if only he had not used the "nuclear option" in his posts.

The video also highlights the shortcoming of the AX100 4K recording format, any motion either from the camera or wind and the detail goes out the window.

Great China video Mark, we were there a few month ago, I have to learn to include closeups.

Eugene
You are right - I pressed the red button from start. I had to. There are limits.
Just because I pressed the button doesn't mean I can't contribute. I'm happy to.
I will register an account w/ my regular name so there won't be any hard feelings
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post #2129 of 2574 Old 07-14-2014, 07:53 AM
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I was going to post a reply to your earlier post where you suggested this was a boring forum where the only thing people do is film their green gardens.

I've followed and attempted to participate here for a couple years. It has been obvious to me that this forum is about equipment. It is less about documentaries. People don't write shooting plans or scripts, hire crews, find actors, cater the food, etc. The purpose here is primarily aimed at sharing what consumer video cameras can do. In fact, even adjusting or "grading" the color is frowned on because it can hide the "true performance" of a camera.

For "creative" documentaries, I suggest you comb Vimeo where there is an abundance of style, emotion and visual inventiveness.
Thank you for a straight out reply. My suggestion leads to total lack of humbleness (you say so?). Not boring.
You are right but there are more people reading than actually writing. Most of seen videos explain how the camera aquire green color.
And ofc with the referee judging weather you use your camera right or wrong.

I'm not asking for professional results etc etc. I'm talking about what you can do if you put some work into it, which shows performance in codec, to push it and actually use the camera. By f.ex expose the image correctly, grade for several looks or accuracy to try out the codec, use external mic with NC to get rid of wind / birds shows what the camera is capable of.

Did anyone even try ETTR at 100% Zebra and lower to 0.86% saturation, +10% yellow on shadow, -0.90 exposure and review the clip?

220Mbit Prores 422 HQ codec from BMCC camera in 1080p vs GoPro 1080p 25fps. Which one can be matched with another camera?
The Gopro codec is blown out once you pull a little too much. AX100 allows more playing - not too much but you can actually dig out details from
the footage which is "hidden" by it's default way of exposing and saturate the image.

Example,

Canon 70D in auto mode with kitlens.
Canon 70D in manual mode with a somewhat better lens, with correct exposure, saved in raw, corrected and fixed in f.ex LR and exported.

This thread shows 90% of example 1 which is an unfair and untrue representation of the device. And it's always the same subject - the cat...
These examples shows two different pictures. One OK and one much better. Which one shows the performance of the device for you?
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post #2130 of 2574 Old 07-14-2014, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsprague View Post
I was going to post a reply to your earlier post where you suggested this was a boring forum where the only thing people do is film their green gardens.

I've followed and attempted to participate here for a couple years. It has been obvious to me that this forum is about equipment. It is less about documentaries. People don't write shooting plans or scripts, hire crews, find actors, cater the food, etc. The purpose here is primarily aimed at sharing what consumer video cameras can do. In fact, even adjusting or "grading" the color is frowned on because it can hide the "true performance" of a camera.

For "creative" documentaries, I suggest you comb Vimeo where there is an abundance of style, emotion and visual inventiveness.
You are correct Bill. We are not Indie film makers here and by and large we feel no need to 'grade' our videos because the camera does such a good job recreating the colors and detail just as we saw them. Obviously a camera like the BMPCC needs to be graded, there's just no other option for accuracy.

Instead we shoot videos of our travels as well as other 'boring' things like Mark's backyard dragonfly. Funny thing, I found nothing boring about that video either, but I guess I'm a boring kind of guy who wouldn't know 'quality' work if I tripped over it.
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