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post #2251 of 2815 Old 08-01-2014, 09:40 AM
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Cool thanks! That make things easier for me.

1h of 4k footage on a 32gb is enough for my needs. I will not do pro shooting.
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post #2252 of 2815 Old 08-01-2014, 11:15 AM
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Question Sony 4K Video Camera

I bought the Sony 4K and I shot in 1080 a soccer game. It is very clear but very jumpy in action movements like almost robot actions and looks very jittery. I'm new at shooting videos so I just used the tripod to keep a smooth look. My TV is 1080 so I thought the match up would be great. Very disappointed. Ant suggestions?
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post #2253 of 2815 Old 08-01-2014, 12:26 PM
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There are many possible causes of jumpy action movements, ranging from camera, operator, and playback. Some basic ones follow. Make sure the shutter speed isn't too high (eg., 1/60 for 30fps and 1/120 for 60fps). When shooting in bright light, you must engage the ND filters to maintain a reasonable shutter speed and aperture. Turn off image stabilization when shooting from a tripod. Use a fluid head for your tripod. Pans and zooms should be as slow as possible. Have enough memory in your computer so you can load the entire video into memory. (Also, I highly recommend you shoot in 4k... this will give you the best footage by far.) If you post your footage, we can try to identify specific causes.
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post #2254 of 2815 Old 08-01-2014, 02:29 PM
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For the jittery feeling (AKA Saving Private Ryan effect), this is the high shutter speed because of the bright light. Like Hatchback said, use the ND filter and keep the shutter speed low.

As for "jumpy", is it camera shake you are talking about? The tripod sure would help. So activating Image Stabilization.
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post #2255 of 2815 Old 08-02-2014, 02:24 PM
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Excerpts from a trip we took several month ago.

Most of the shots (95%) were taken in the auto mode, except for the terracotta soldiers manual focus had to be used. The focus drifted in and out, I hope that the upgrade to V2 fixed that problem.
A tripod was used on the Chinese Wall and the max gain for the night shots in Shanghai was reduced by 3 DB to limit noise.

There are a lot of compression artifacts created by youtube, for example driving to the wall and the start of the gondola ride up to the wall. The trees suffer the most. This is not in the original footage.

Editing was done with Power Director 12 with an 4 year old i7 , win 7 64 bit computer. Entire lenght of video is 90 min, edited in 3 segments to reduce slowdown, then combined. PD12 uses
proxy editing.

So, even in amateur hands, 81 years old and not too steady any more, this camera is capable of creating nice memories.

Gene

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD1l...ature=youtu.be

Last edited by Eugene157; 08-02-2014 at 02:29 PM.
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post #2256 of 2815 Old 08-02-2014, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene157 View Post
Excerpts from a trip we took several month ago.

Most of the shots (95%) were taken in the auto mode, except for the terracotta soldiers manual focus had to be used. The focus drifted in and out, I hope that the upgrade to V2 fixed that problem.
A tripod was used on the Chinese Wall and the max gain for the night shots in Shanghai was reduced by 3 DB to limit noise.

There are a lot of compression artifacts created by youtube, for example driving to the wall and the start of the gondola ride up to the wall. The trees suffer the most. This is not in the original footage.

Editing was done with Power Director 12 with an 4 year old i7 , win 7 64 bit computer. Entire lenght of video is 90 min, edited in 3 segments to reduce slowdown, then combined. PD12 uses
proxy editing.

So, even in amateur hands, 81 years old and not too steady any more, this camera is capable of creating nice memories.

Gene

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD1l...ature=youtu.be
Nice,do you like powerdirector 12 ?.Hopefully i may be using 4K in the future,i have the trial version but you cant do much with that as it will only render low Mbps files.When i start on 4k i shall probobly down convert to 1920x1080P and then edit,how long would you say 15 minutes of 4K would take to downconvert.My PC is quite new and fairly powerful.
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post #2257 of 2815 Old 08-02-2014, 07:34 PM
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None of my TVs or monitors are 4K, I plan to go from a 55" HD to 65/70" 4K TV sometime before Christmas. I do edit in 4K because I do not want to do it over again, but PD12 allows to down convert to 2K at very minimal quality loss. So it is easy to burn BR discs from the 4K material. For all practical purposes Pb on a HD monitor or HD TV looks about the same regardless of coming from a 4K or 2K source.

PD uses proxy editing, the 4K material is converted to SD and then used for editing. On this trip I managed to record over 250GB on 5ea 64GB SDXC cards, generating the proxy files for all that material took about 24Hrs. This time was partly made up by the speedier and more stable editing process.

Converting from 4K to 2K takes about 4 times as long as the video, using the CPU only, in PD12 that results in the best PQ. As mentioned my CPU is an ancient i7 920 2.67 GHZ with 12GB memory.
I went to 4K because this trip was coming up and the AX100 was the only reasonable choice.

PD12 works well on my system but my demands are fairly simple, you might want to take a look on their forum to get a better feel. It looks like only a very small minority is using 4K on PD12.

Hope that answered your questions..
Gene
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post #2258 of 2815 Old 08-03-2014, 12:34 AM
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Yes thanks so down converting 15m of 4K would take around an hour.
What i find surprising is when you say [For all practical purposes Pb on a HD monitor or HD TV looks about the same regardless of coming from a 4K or 2K source.]
When i download a 4K film and play on my 1920x1080P tvs the resolution is far higher than watching normal 1080P sourced material ie true looking HD,perhaps i am misundersting what you meen.
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post #2259 of 2815 Old 08-03-2014, 01:47 AM
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Just got the Panasonic FZ1000 to go along with my Sony AX100

short sample with all default settings.
the audio is from the built in mike.

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post #2260 of 2815 Old 08-03-2014, 09:27 AM
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Flintyplus,

Oh it is higher , substantially so , but higher on 4K and 2K source when viewed on a 2K monitor. Video from AX100.

William , well put together, which scenes from which camera?

Gene

Last edited by Eugene157; 08-03-2014 at 10:14 AM.
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post #2261 of 2815 Old 08-03-2014, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene157 View Post
Excerpts from a trip we took several month ago.

Most of the shots (95%) were taken in the auto mode, except for the terracotta soldiers manual focus had to be used. The focus drifted in and out, I hope that the upgrade to V2 fixed that problem.
A tripod was used on the Chinese Wall and the max gain for the night shots in Shanghai was reduced by 3 DB to limit noise.
Gene, I wonder if you have an issue with your AF. I've almost never seen this autofocus drift you're speaking of. I've seen the AF occasionally get confused, but I've never seen a tendency for AF drifting. I'm on V2, but I didn't see it on V1 either.
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post #2262 of 2815 Old 08-03-2014, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William Chiu View Post
Just got the Panasonic FZ1000 to go along with my Sony AX100

short sample with all default settings.
the audio is from the built in mike.

http://youtu.be/G8t4atbSYcY
Billy, how do you find the overall PQ relative to the AX100?

Edit: Just looked at your video. Sharpness & detail look good. I do notice a camera refocus after each hesitation with the zoom. How is the autofocus and zoom in terms of smoothness?

Last edited by Ken Ross; 08-03-2014 at 09:51 AM.
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post #2263 of 2815 Old 08-03-2014, 10:19 AM
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Ken, I got perhaps one of the first 10, mine was not even V1 there was no version indicated, it is now V2.

The terracotta soldiers have not much contrast but on other occasions the camera would not focus. I assume that V2 took care of that, no problems on a recent outing to Santa Monica Beach.

How was your trip?

Gene

Last edited by Eugene157; 08-03-2014 at 10:22 AM.
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post #2264 of 2815 Old 08-03-2014, 10:23 AM
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Gene, I could see needing MF on the soldiers, but that was a low contrast scene. You shouldn't have the issue with higher contrast scenes.

Haven't gone yet. Hoping the weather will be good.
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post #2265 of 2815 Old 08-03-2014, 10:31 AM
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Hi Ken,

We got the FZ1000 Friday and used an older FZ200 battery to power it so settings were default for the footage.
As such, the well lit scenes had PQ that were similar to AX100. Crisp, natural and sharp on 2K and 4K monitors.
The area where the AX100 were superior were darker scenes. The FZ1000 did not seem to do as well with the keyboard or my face with just a 20 watt lamp near my Roland.

One area where the FZ1000 is clearly superior is the optical stabilizer. It is much more designed for moderate run and gun operations than the AX100.

I will be taking the AX100 and FZ1000 to Asia shortly. Thinking of leaving the GH4 at home.



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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Billy, how do you find the overall PQ relative to the AX100?

Edit: Just looked at your video. Sharpness & detail look good. I do notice a camera refocus after each hesitation with the zoom. How is the autofocus and zoom in terms of smoothness?
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post #2266 of 2815 Old 08-03-2014, 10:35 AM
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Thanks Billy. I've got the FZ1000 on order, but I'm thinking of cancelling it. I'm concerned about the zoom & refocusing issues. I thought the zoom would be a bit smoother and more modulated than it appears.

I like the idea of the better OIS, but I'm not sure I'd be happy with the other issues.
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post #2267 of 2815 Old 08-03-2014, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene157 View Post
Excerpts from a trip we took several month ago.

Most of the shots (95%) were taken in the auto mode, except for the terracotta soldiers manual focus had to be used. The focus drifted in and out, I hope that the upgrade to V2 fixed that problem.
A tripod was used on the Chinese Wall and the max gain for the night shots in Shanghai was reduced by 3 DB to limit noise.

There are a lot of compression artifacts created by youtube, for example driving to the wall and the start of the gondola ride up to the wall. The trees suffer the most. This is not in the original footage.

Editing was done with Power Director 12 with an 4 year old i7 , win 7 64 bit computer. Entire lenght of video is 90 min, edited in 3 segments to reduce slowdown, then combined. PD12 uses
proxy editing.

So, even in amateur hands, 81 years old and not too steady any more, this camera is capable of creating nice memories.

Gene

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD1l...ature=youtu.be
Eugene,

I have watched all of your China footage shot with the AX100 including this recent posting. You certainly have a talent for giving the viewer the sense of being in China with you. I have thoroughly enjoyed your posted videos. I have never been to China, and your video gave me a terrific opportunity to see the country through your eyes as you traveled throughout the country.

I watched your video at 2160p on an Asus 32 in. 4K display and the quality is excellent. Of particular note is the outstanding color quality of many of the scenes that you captured. I am impressed with the steady hand that you have and with your eye for capturing interesting detail and human interest in many of the scenes. The night time shots in Shanghai are incredibly beautiful.

I have an AX100 and I have learned a lot from your work and been inspired to work harder on my own video adventures with this outstanding camera. Thank you for taking the time to put tthis together and for posting it. Well Done!

Tom
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I agree Ken.
But remember the clips were from my first day. Within minutes of powering up.
I used the zoom ring on the lens for the video. Hence the jerkiness.
The zoom lever on the fire button is smoother.
I am looking for a remote zoom controller for the FZ1000 at the moment.

I like the extra reach, nearly to 600mm (35mm equvialent) with the FZ1000.
Also, the photo functionality is better than the AX100.

At this point and over $1000, I do not think it is of great value over the AX100.
The low light of the Sony is clearly better.
On a tripod, the Sony would be my choice.

On the go, right now, the FZ1000 seems better.
Plus there is no need to clean the sensors versus the GH4.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Thanks Billy. I've got the FZ1000 on order, but I'm thinking of cancelling it. I'm concerned about the zoom & refocusing issues. I thought the zoom would be a bit smoother and more modulated than it appears.

I like the idea of the better OIS, but I'm not sure I'd be happy with the other issues.
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post #2269 of 2815 Old 08-03-2014, 01:03 PM
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The lens on the Panasonic FZ1000 is not parfocal. It is going to re-focus when zooming, just like the FZ200 lens and most of the Panasonic Lumix zoom lenses. I don't know if the aperture is stepless either. The zoom is also likely to be much noisier than the AX100, and less smooth. It is not a camcorder, after all. The ability to shape the video, choosing picture styles and settings within them is a great feature. And having a big zoom is always good. From what I have seen so far, the 4K Panasonic video does not wow like the AX100.

Btw, here is a link to a pretty-much unaltered, downloadable FZ1000 4K video:

http://callmealan.uk/samples/lumixfull4k.mov Best to right-click/download. It is fine, but just not what the AX100 delivers.

Maybe this discussion belongs in the FZ1000 thread (I have no idea why an FZ1000 video was (double-)posted in this one).
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post #2270 of 2815 Old 08-03-2014, 01:22 PM
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It not fair,some already have 3 4k recording devises,my FZ1000 is still on order,i was not fortunate enough to be allocated one of the first batch in that soon went .
Ken the weather has been good but its breaking up in parts now,i hope not for the rest of the summer.Sorry i know this is the AX thread but focus is fine on my 2 current lumix cameras,obviously a good camcorders focus will always be better than a cameras focus.

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post #2271 of 2815 Old 08-03-2014, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flintyplus View Post
It not fair,some already have 3 4k recording devises,my FZ1000 is still on order,i was not fortunate enough to be allocated one of the first batch in that soon went .
Ken the weather has been good but its breaking up in parts now,i hope not for the rest of the summer.Sorry i know this is the AX thread but focus is fine on my 2 current lumix cameras,obviously a good cam focus will always be better than a cameras focus.
He he, you could move to sweden the fz1000 is in stock at all the dealers
Same thing when the AX100 and GH4 came, small country with a small market so I have never seen them run out of any popular camera accept the bmpcc the first two weeks after it launched.

(and none of these three will be verry popular either, the GH4 has had some sucess here but most people are still on the Canon train since Canon took the market here decades ago when they where pretty much the only brand who had a service/repair office in the country. The gap created have been hard to fill for the others. On the still side Nikon is becoming really large but for DSLR video shooters and camcorders its still Canon.)

Last edited by Mattias Burling; 08-03-2014 at 01:59 PM.
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post #2272 of 2815 Old 08-03-2014, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post
The lens on the Panasonic FZ1000 is not parfocal. It is going to re-focus when zooming, just like the FZ200 lens and most of the Panasonic Lumix zoom lenses. I don't know if the aperture is stepless either. The zoom is also likely to be much noisier than the AX100, and less smooth. It is not a camcorder, after all. The ability to shape the video, choosing picture styles and settings within them is a great feature. And having a big zoom is always good. From what I have seen so far, the 4K Panasonic video does not wow like the AX100.

Btw, here is a link to a pretty-much unaltered, downloadable FZ1000 4K video:

http://callmealan.uk/samples/lumixfull4k.mov Best to right-click/download. It is fine, but just not what the AX100 delivers.

Maybe this discussion belongs in the FZ1000 thread (I have no idea why an FZ1000 video was (double-)posted in this one).
I have both (bought the FZ1000 mostly for vacation mix photography).

The bad of the FZ1000:
  • The zoom is indeed not nearly as smooth as the AX100...only one speed. Zooming with the lens ring is not smooth at all...stick with the shutter lever.
  • The aperture does indeed click (and the associated change in brightness) twice through the range even in aperture priority locked at f4. The zoom noises are noticeable. The IS noises are also noticeable in a quiet room (even with IS off).
  • THe Lack of ND is certainly a convenience negative.
  • For 4k, there is no wide angle (it's 37-592mm equiv recording 4k).
  • Focusing is a little fidgety, but not nearly as bad as the GH4 + 14-140...I'd say acceptable. Seems to keep up quite well when zooming.
  • Clicky exposure compensation (if you leave the shutter lever for zooming)


The good for the FZ:
  • IS is much more effective than even active mode on the AX100
  • You can adjust the image parameters to your preferences for 4k
  • You do get more reach with 4k (almost 600mm)
  • If a most excellent stills camera...excellent optics overall.
  • Similar lack of moire as the AX100. Not as super detailed, but a little more filmic.
  • No touchscreen focusing
  • Far more customizable interface (buttons, levers...)

Overall, I'm definitely keeping the FZ1000, since it's stills capabilities are excellent and it's a super comfortable and convenient do-everything pretty darned well package.

I'm on the fence on the AX100. I feel I'd have to get an external mic and would definitely have to get an ND filter if it were my primary video camera. But with those 2 things, it makes a very capable camera. The zoom things a bit of a bummer, but I find I don't like zooming footage with the AX100 either...it's not a very linear rate of zoom. Focus is smoother, but the FX1000 does a very respectable job as well.

Probably the biggest reason to keep the AX is the much wider angle in 4k. If you need that, there are no work-arounds (besides maybe some wide angle adapters which put stress on the lens mechanism and decrease IQ).

Cost-wise, of course the FX1000 is a bargain give it's extreme versatility.

Amazing times for sure!

Rick
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post #2273 of 2815 Old 08-03-2014, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattias Burling View Post
He he, you could move to sweden the fz1000 is in stock at all the dealers
Same thing when the AX100 and GH4 came, small country with a small market so I have never seen them run out of any popular camera accept the bmpcc the first two weeks after it launched.

(and none of these three will be verry popular either, the GH4 has had some sucess here but most people are still on the Canon train since Canon took the market here decades ago when they where pretty much the only brand who had a service/repair office in the country. The gap created have been hard to fill for the others. On the still side Nikon is becoming really large but for DSLR video shooters and camcorders its still Canon.)
Yes Canon is my true manafacture but they are letting the others lead the way,i wish they were bringing out an FZ1000,but i am not a one manafacture person and purchase whats on the market that i can afford,and not to test against my present cam/camera before returning,but i can see the why some do that, it can give pleasure testing the various cams & cameras ability,but too much hassle for me.

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post #2274 of 2815 Old 08-03-2014, 02:46 PM
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Hi, just a question.

For shooting kids playing and jumping around, would you prefer use the 4K sharpness or the extra realism of the 60p motion (at 1080p)?
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post #2275 of 2815 Old 08-03-2014, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post
The lens on the Panasonic FZ1000 is not parfocal. It is going to re-focus when zooming, just like the FZ200 lens and most of the Panasonic Lumix zoom lenses. I don't know if the aperture is stepless either. The zoom is also likely to be much noisier than the AX100, and less smooth. It is not a camcorder, after all. The ability to shape the video, choosing picture styles and settings within them is a great feature. And having a big zoom is always good. From what I have seen so far, the 4K Panasonic video does not wow like the AX100.

Btw, here is a link to a pretty-much unaltered, downloadable FZ1000 4K video:

http://callmealan.uk/samples/lumixfull4k.mov Best to right-click/download. It is fine, but just not what the AX100 delivers.

Maybe this discussion belongs in the FZ1000 thread (I have no idea why an FZ1000 video was (double-)posted in this one).
Agreed. I downloaded the video and on the positive side I'll say I found the colors better and more believable than anything I was ever able to dial in on my GH4. Detail was nice, but the overall impact definitely fell short of the AX100, there was just something missing. I didn't feel the 'wow' as I do with most AX100 videos I see. Perhaps a lack of 'transparency'.

I also noticed a number of micro focus misses (a bit of hunting) going on in some of the clips and there may have been a stepped change in the aperture, not 100% on that.
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post #2276 of 2815 Old 08-03-2014, 03:52 PM
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The crop factor of the 4k mode in the FZ1000 turns the widest focal lenght a 37mm (in 35mm terms). And already I though that 30mm on the ax100 was crampy...

Still, the slow motion features, way better stabilization, 4K and great photography is quite a killer deal.

here a full frame grab of the 4k video;
http://4.static.img-dpreview.com/files/g/E~2989370.jpg

Not as good for sure. But for half the price...
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post #2277 of 2815 Old 08-03-2014, 06:07 PM
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Tom, thank you for your kind words. In a few month I might have a 65/70" 4K TV so that I can watch it as you did. But I still enjoy looking at it from time to time, to marvel at the video quality the AX100 can provide, even with a bad air index mostly over 300, it was rare even to have a shadow. That country is killing it's people.

Ken, I salvaged the terracotta soldier video by using frame grabs. The crowd was incredible and there was constant jostling by everyone for a good vantage point.

Gene
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post #2278 of 2815 Old 08-03-2014, 07:59 PM
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Tom, thank you for your kind words. In a few month I might have a 65/70" 4K TV so that I can watch it as you did. But I still enjoy looking at it from time to time, to marvel at the video quality the AX100 can provide, even with a bad air index mostly over 300, it was rare even to have a shadow. That country is killing it's people.

Ken, I salvaged the terracotta soldier video by using frame grabs. The crowd was incredible and there was constant jostling by everyone for a good vantage point.

Gene
When I was watching it, I wondered how you could even get a shot with that incredible crowd. Is it always like that, or did you go at a time when it was especially crowded?
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post #2279 of 2815 Old 08-03-2014, 08:19 PM
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Ken, I salvaged the terracotta soldier video by using frame grabs. The crowd was incredible and there was constant jostling by everyone for a good vantage point.

Gene
Gene, that was a good idea and one I've utilized over the years to hide a jostled or shaky camera.
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post #2280 of 2815 Old 08-03-2014, 10:55 PM
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Chenderson, it was with a few exception like the wall, we went there very early in the morning. What hit me especially was the age of the people, how are they all going to find employment. In a English/Chinese paper it was mentioned that only 25% of University graduates have found jobs in spring 14. And lots of beggars, young people, mutilated with limbs missing and older people walking around with tin cups. Did not shoot any of that, the exception being women doing their laundry in the Yangtze River. I wanted this to be a positive video.
Sorry about being off subject.

Gene

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sD1l...ature=youtu.be

Last edited by Eugene157; 08-03-2014 at 11:01 PM.
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