Sony 4K Handycam FDR-AX100 thread - Page 77 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2281 of 3526 Old 08-04-2014, 12:01 AM
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Very impressive video Eugene, I remember seeing that a little while ago. Told the story in a way you fell you were there with you. Not to mention the excellent footage from the AX100.
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post #2282 of 3526 Old 08-04-2014, 12:10 AM
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Alister Chapman has done a review and tips videos on the AX100 that are rather good. I also enjoyed the rather brief footage from tornado alley, But have to say how good Windsor Castle looked in 1080 and 4K.

Cut my personal choices for my camcorder down to either the AX100 or CX900.
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post #2283 of 3526 Old 08-04-2014, 12:44 AM
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I did some recordings in 1080p60 and 720p120 mode. The result seems to look really awful, the quality is very poor and I wonder why. I understand that having a big TV, the result will be far from the 4K footage but however it is really poor. Both AVCHD and XAVC-S modes. What I also wonder on this, is how the rolling shutter effect is not visible at those speeds? I am a bit lost, since I always used the camera in 4K mode until now, and I think this is not going to change...
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post #2284 of 3526 Old 08-04-2014, 12:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leamas View Post
I did some recordings in 1080p60 and 720p120 mode. The result seems to look really awful, the quality is very poor and I wonder why. I understand that having a big TV, the result will be far from the 4K footage but however it is really poor. Both AVCHD and XAVC-S modes. What I also wonder on this, is how the rolling shutter effect is not visible at those speeds? I am a bit lost, since I always used the camera in 4K mode until now, and I think this is not going to change...
Its pretty comon to get artifacts in highers speeds with consumer cameras.
The reason the rolling shutter effect isnt as visable is because a higher fps means higher shutter speed, in other words it rolls by quicker.
And in 720p it probably crops the sensor and therefor has a shorter travel, Not sure about the last part on the AX100 but thats one of the reasosn why 720p mode on the A7s and other cameras has so little wobble from the rolling shutter in 720p.
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post #2285 of 3526 Old 08-04-2014, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattias Burling View Post
Its pretty comon to get artifacts in highers speeds with consumer cameras.
The reason the rolling shutter effect isnt as visable is because a higher fps means higher shutter speed, in other words it rolls by quicker.
And in 720p it probably crops the sensor and therefor has a shorter travel, Not sure about the last part on the AX100 but thats one of the reasosn why 720p mode on the A7s and other cameras has so little wobble from the rolling shutter in 720p.
Yes, in principle it's true. But I can film with high shutter speeds also in 4K and rolling shutter becomes visible more. About 1080p60, the quality is far below my old Panasonic TM900, which I don't think it's acceptable. On 720p120, I can agree that there can be some limitations due to very high framerate...
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post #2286 of 3526 Old 08-04-2014, 05:49 AM
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can someone confirm the bad 1080 60p quality. I was woundering what would be better to film my kids jumping around, the sharpness of 4k or the smooth motion of 60p. If 60p is soft, that kinda rule it out.

cant find any original 60p footage from the ax100 on the web.
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post #2287 of 3526 Old 08-04-2014, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by earwax69 View Post
can someone confirm the bad 1080 60p quality. I was woundering what would be better to film my kids jumping around, the sharpness of 4k or the smooth motion of 60p. If 60p is soft, that kinda rule it out.

cant find any original 60p footage from the ax100 on the web.
Here is something I shot to test the high frame rate capabilities of the AX100. I was rather impressed with the 1080p 60 footage.

This video shows real time and slowed so you can see both in action. As usual, actual footage looks better than YouTube compressed.

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post #2288 of 3526 Old 08-04-2014, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeano View Post
Here is something I shot to test the high frame rate capabilities of the AX100. I was rather impressed with the 1080p 60 footage.

This video shows real time and slowed so you can see both in action. As usual, actual footage looks better than YouTube compressed.
From the beginning to about 0:45 it looks rather soft as if it has not been properly focused. The closeup starting from 1:30 looks very good, one can see individual hairs and shirt's fabric. May be caused in part by limited bitrate - not enough of it to show all the details in a busy setting.
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post #2289 of 3526 Old 08-04-2014, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post
From the beginning to about 0:45 it looks rather soft as if it has not been properly focused. The closeup starting from 1:30 looks very good, one can see individual hairs and shirt's fabric. May be caused in part by limited bitrate - not enough of it to show all the details in a busy setting.
Yes,

The 1280x720 footage is indeed soft. I actually applied a mild sharpening filter over it to help being back a little of that detail. The 1280x720 120 fps stuff is fun for when you REALLY want to see something slowed down; IE an effect. I would not consider it for everyday shooting or something I would use for broadcast.

The 1080 60 fps footage I found to be quite useable and there was really nothing lost over 30 fps. I always shoot in 4K and down sample if I want 1080p, this way I have the information captured. I would not hesitate to use the 60 fps 1080 footage in broadcast or if I felt I may want to get some cool slowed down shots.

For everyday shooting though, I bought the camcorder for the 4K not the high frame rate. The higher frame rates are a great added benefit to an already fantastic and capable camera.

Edit:

Next year when they release the 4K 60p version of this camera, I'll pre-order it. As it is now, I don't see any 4K 60p TVs out there yet even close to my budget. I like to future-proof as much as possible though.
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post #2290 of 3526 Old 08-04-2014, 08:50 AM
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DrDeano, thanks for the footage. Yes of course the 120fps is soft. Not big deal. I wanted to see the 60p. It look alright to me. I cannot see the original files but even on youtube, it look sharp enough.

Leamas, could you please describe a bit more on the flaws of 60p? I understand that compared to downsized 4k, the 1080p will look bad (AVCHD hey!) but would hold up against other 1080p avchd cams.
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post #2291 of 3526 Old 08-04-2014, 10:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Next year when they release the 4K 60p version of this camera, I'll pre-order it. As it is now, I don't see any 4K 60p TVs out there yet even close to my budget. I like to future-proof as much as possible though.
Ditto
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post #2292 of 3526 Old 08-04-2014, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faithful mutt View Post
Alister Chapman has done a review and tips videos on the AX100 that are rather good. I also enjoyed the rather brief footage from tornado alley, But have to say how good Windsor Castle looked in 1080 and 4K.

Cut my personal choices for my camcorder down to either the AX100 or CX900.
Is that 4K video from tornado alley? Do you have a link?
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post #2293 of 3526 Old 08-04-2014, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Is that 4K video from tornado alley? Do you have a link?
Indeed it is from Tornado Alley, very brief though at the end of his review video.

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post #2294 of 3526 Old 08-04-2014, 05:31 PM
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Just to clarify something; The 1080p will be recorded with AVCHD. The same codec that my 7 years old Canon HV20 use. Does that mean the quality will be similar? Because that would be somewhat disappointing.

Why the hell cant they take the same codec as 4k to record the 1080p?
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post #2295 of 3526 Old 08-04-2014, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by earwax69 View Post
Just to clarify something; The 1080p will be recorded with AVCHD. The same codec that my 7 years old Canon HV20 use. Does that mean the quality will be similar? Because that would be somewhat disappointing.

Why the hell cant they take the same codec as 4k to record the 1080p?

No. No. If you are talking about the AX100, you can record 108060p using XAVC S, at 50Mbps. There is also an option to shoot AVCHD, so it looks just as bad as your Canon...
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post #2296 of 3526 Old 08-04-2014, 06:27 PM
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Ho ok... someone said that it was sad to use such a low bitrate for 60p and I though it was the only option. Good then. Feel a lot more 2014 like this.

Thanks for the clarification.
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post #2297 of 3526 Old 08-04-2014, 10:50 PM
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You can use both AVCHD and XAVC-S for recording HD videos. XAVC seems a bit better but however the quality lacks. And we should keep in mind that it records at 50Mbps, while old Panasonic cameras (TM900 X900...) record at 28Mbps. And quality is better... I think they can do something to improve in the firmware. 1080p quality should be the same as the downscaled 4K of course.
I can see the differences very easy because I have a 65 inch TV. On my older TVs (50 and 40 inch) it's harder to observe but I can still do. So there is something terribly wrong with the 1080p footage and I really hope they fix it in a firmware. In that way we can get very great moving videos in 1080p quality.


Edit: the Panasonic cameras shoot AVCHD and it's not bad at all...

Last edited by leamas; 08-05-2014 at 03:55 AM.
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post #2298 of 3526 Old 08-05-2014, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faithful mutt View Post
Indeed it is from Tornado Alley, very brief though at the end of his review video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3Yj...yZwjKJE5HIX2tw
Thanks Faithful. He certainly liked the camera.
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post #2299 of 3526 Old 08-05-2014, 11:22 AM
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Thanks Faithful. He certainly liked the camera.
No problem Ken, yes he he did seem to enjoy this camera, his YT channel is ingenioustv and has some in depth tips for focus and exposure settings, however he says in the review above about the fv70 lasting three hours when I have only seen two quoted and four quoted for the fv100, what is your experience of battery run time?

Last edited by Faithful mutt; 08-05-2014 at 11:42 AM.
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post #2300 of 3526 Old 08-05-2014, 12:08 PM
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Ordered the fdr-ax100 this morning, 1680$ taxes included, to replace my venerable Canon HV20. Can't wait to play with it in 15 days. Bough it in Japan and sure hope there's an english menu!!!
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post #2301 of 3526 Old 08-05-2014, 12:18 PM
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Came across this:

http://camcorders.reviewed.com/conte...mcorder-review

He too is disappointed about HD:

The only thing missing from the AX100 seems to be higher quality HD. This is where the AX100 starts to look more like a consumer-grade device when compared to the Panasonic Lumix GH4.

Gene
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post #2302 of 3526 Old 08-05-2014, 01:05 PM
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Gene, the only real reason I can see shooting in native HD on the AX100 is if you really must have 60p. Otherwise I much prefer preserving the full 4K detail and downsizing to HD if I need it. The downsized HD will look better than virtually any HD camera I know of...prosumer or consumer. Not even close.

To be perfectly honest, the only time I recall shooting in HD was the first day I had the camera. More of a test than anything. Since then I've never shot in native HD...not even once.
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post #2303 of 3526 Old 08-05-2014, 01:06 PM
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FZ1000 vs GH4 vs AX100 4K Comparison

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-2Z...ature=youtu.be

Oh dear... Not sure what he did wrong but the ax100 sure look poorly.
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post #2304 of 3526 Old 08-05-2014, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Faithful mutt View Post
No problem Ken, yes he he did seem to enjoy this camera, his YT channel is ingenioustv and has some in depth tips for focus and exposure settings, however he says in the review above about the fv70 lasting three hours when I have only seen two quoted and four quoted for the fv100, what is your experience of battery run time?
Closer to 2 hours of actual shooting in my experience Faithful.
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post #2305 of 3526 Old 08-05-2014, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by earwax69 View Post
FZ1000 vs GH4 vs AX100 4K Comparison

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-2Z...ature=youtu.be

Oh dear... Not sure what he did wrong but the ax100 sure look poorly.
Yup. I have seen one other 'review' this guy had done and it just made me scratch my head. I couldn't get through more than 1/2 of it before exiting.

I don't believe anyone has posted a video from the AX100 that's looked even half as bad as his 'comparison' did. But hey, he wants to sell you some 'how to' info for the FZ1000.
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post #2306 of 3526 Old 08-05-2014, 01:30 PM
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Closer to 2 hours of actual shooting in my experience Faithful.
Thanks Ken, that is what I would have naturally thought. Interesting this talk of the Hd not being what might be expected of this cam..

Only thing I would personally like to have seen would be a slower shutter speed for creative shots of traffic and timelapses etc..
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post #2307 of 3526 Old 08-05-2014, 01:33 PM
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GH4 WB looked out to me. The duck is more saturated in the browns but so is the water behind it compared to the other two cams...

FZ1000 vs GH4 vs AX100 4K Comparison

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-2Z...ature=youtu.be

Oh dear... Not sure what he did wrong but the ax100 sure look poorly.
Yup. I have seen one other 'review' this guy had done and it just made me scratch my head. I couldn't get through more than 1/2 of it before exiting.

I don't believe anyone has posted a video from the AX100 that's looked even half as bad as his 'comparison' did. But hey, he wants to sell you some 'how to' info for the FZ1000.
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post #2308 of 3526 Old 08-05-2014, 05:02 PM
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Ken, could not agree more and that was my only time too.



Gene
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post #2309 of 3526 Old 08-09-2014, 04:11 AM
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What happened? Did people stop using this camera, or just get tired of posting about it?
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post #2310 of 3526 Old 08-09-2014, 07:13 AM
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Probably just people using the camera now. It's been out for a while, so most of what was going to be said has been said.
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