Sony 4K Handycam FDR-AX100 thread - Page 78 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2311 of 3485 Old 08-09-2014, 07:57 AM
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We need someone to buy another new camera, start shooting and posting!
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post #2312 of 3485 Old 08-09-2014, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsprague View Post
We need someone to buy another new camera, start shooting and posting!
We need one of the camera makers to come out with a boldly improved affordable 4K model. Like one that has a built in mechanical 5-axis image stabilization system or one that can shoot at 60fps.
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post #2313 of 3485 Old 08-10-2014, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by SD90 View Post
We need one of the camera makers to come out with a boldly improved affordable 4K model. Like one that has a built in mechanical 5-axis image stabilization system or one that can shoot at 60fps.
You may not have to wait long.

When I started reading and posting here it was only three years ago. Few consumer cameras or camcorders would do 1920x1080 at 60fps. The ones that did, like the TM900 did it in a "special" mode with a dedicated button.

AVCHD evolved to AVCHD 2.0, HD TVs became common, software began to accept AVCHD 2.0 and now it is hard to buy a camera that won't do it. Even cell phones do it.

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post #2314 of 3485 Old 08-10-2014, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by earwax69 View Post
can someone confirm the bad 1080 60p quality. I was woundering what would be better to film my kids jumping around, the sharpness of 4k or the smooth motion of 60p. If 60p is soft, that kinda rule it out.

cant find any original 60p footage from the ax100 on the web.
Confirmed ..same here on my AX100..it's certainly sub par compared to other cams.
Personally I don'nt really care since I bought the cam for 4K shooting exclusively.
I suggest anyone here interested in shooting 1080P and above /under res vids to invest in the wonderful GOPRO black3+ for just a couple of hundred.
I did ,and it bows the AX100 out of the water on those resolutions with ease.
As a side note..rolling shutter can be removed with most consumer video editors in post.

So..go-gopro for your nervous children res and use the Sony for 4K.
Problem solved.
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post #2315 of 3485 Old 08-10-2014, 09:23 AM
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Put a video where your opinion is

Quote:
Originally Posted by jan dijkgraaff View Post
Confirmed ..same here on my AX100..it's certainly sub par compared to other cams.
Personally I don'nt really care since I bought the cam for 4K shooting exclusively.
I suggest anyone here interested in shooting 1080P and above /under res vids to invest in the wonderful GOPRO black3+ for just a couple of hundred.
I did ,and it bows the AX100 out of the water on those resolutions with ease.
As a side note..rolling shutter can be removed with most consumer video editors in post.

So..go-gopro for your nervous children res and use the Sony for 4K.
Problem solved.

Anyone can give an opinion. You are in a unique situation where you can show us the difference. Why not make a video using your AX100 at 1080 60p (XAVC S please) and your GoPro at 1080 60p and upload it. Then we can see if the GoPro "bows[sic] the AX100 out of the water" (btw, the AX100 is not water proof ).


camcorderinfo.com measured the 1080 resolution of the AX100 at 750 lp/ph horizontal and vertical. The GoPro was measured at 800 and 700 respectively. That is not a difference. Their measured resolution numbers (except for 4K) I have found in the past to correspond pretty well with what videos show.
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post #2316 of 3485 Old 08-10-2014, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by jan dijkgraaff View Post
.
As a side note..rolling shutter can be removed with most consumer video editors in post.
.
I belive that when I see it

And if it did work, wouldn't the software make the objekt in the foreground crooked while its correcting the background?

Love to se a 60p shootout with the ax100 and gopro, go for it.
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post #2317 of 3485 Old 08-10-2014, 08:45 PM
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And if it did work, wouldn't the software make the objekt in the foreground crooked while its correcting the background?
Handshake rolling shutter. Everything is crooked. Background and foreground. The software correct that but there must be some cropping done.

I've never tried it actually. I will soon.
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post #2318 of 3485 Old 08-10-2014, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by earwax69 View Post
Handshake rolling shutter. Everything is crooked. Background and foreground. The software correct that but there must be some cropping done.

I've never tried it actually. I will soon.
I will stay a bit sceptic but I would be interested to see what you get from it
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post #2319 of 3485 Old 08-11-2014, 02:36 AM
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Did anybody have the following problem?


When shooting in an environment with many trees, and slowly panning and / or zooming is performed, the resulting clip flickers a bit when viewing on a 4K TV. Mine is 65F9000, could be easily the TV the problem but I don't understand why. The interesting aspect is that when I decrease the sharpness (via the TV and/or the PC driver) the effect is less visible. But then the overall quality drops.


Edit: many trees, bright light, so a lot of small leafs compose the scene.
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post #2320 of 3485 Old 08-11-2014, 11:38 AM
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Hey all,
I pulled the trigger on a new AX100 this morning and should have it on Wednesday or Thursday. I'm definitely a novice when it comes to camcorder usage, so I spent my weekend reading this thread from front to back before making my decision (a special thanks to who shared their videos). I bought this camcorder primarily for a trip that my wife and I are taking to Japan next month (our 3rd visit). We'll be there for 2 solid weeks, so I'm hoping to come back with some great footage between the AX100 and the TD-20V 3D camcorder that I'm also taking. I just have a few questions if some of you guys have the time to answer.


Having already read the thread and seen monopods discussed from time to time, I'm wondering if someone can help me understand the benefit of walking around with one versus just engaging the active stabilization mode on the camcorder. Is it just fatigue from holding it for long periods of time? I have to say that the active stabilization on the TD-20V is really good, especially while walking, so I would hope that the AX100 is at least somewhat comparable. Can anyone comment on this?


Also, how good is the internal mic on the camcorder? In addition to the TD-20V, I'm also planning to take a Zoom H2n digital recorder for recording 4-channel audio separately. The goal is to try and put together something of a 5.1 audio soundtrack since I understand that I cannot shoot in 4K AND 5.1 from the camcorder directly. Although I will have the ability to use the H2n as an external mic, I would be limiting my surround options considerably if I did that. So I'm just trying to figure out how good the mic is on it's own as I'd like to use the camcorder's PCM audio alongside the .WAV files from my H2n to come up with some great audio.


Anyway, I'm really looking forward to receiving the camcorder and trying out some of the stuff that you guys have been talking about!

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post #2321 of 3485 Old 08-11-2014, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by DualEdge View Post
Hey all,
I pulled the trigger on a new AX100 this morning and should have it on Wednesday or Thursday. I'm definitely a novice when it comes to camcorder usage, so I spent my weekend reading this thread from front to back before making my decision (a special thanks to who shared their videos). I bought this camcorder primarily for a trip that my wife and I are taking to Japan next month (our 3rd visit). We'll be there for 2 solid weeks, so I'm hoping to come back with some great footage between the AX100 and the TD-20V 3D camcorder that I'm also taking. I just have a few questions if some of you guys have the time to answer.


Having already read the thread and seen monopods discussed from time to time, I'm wondering if someone can help me understand the benefit of walking around with one versus just engaging the active stabilization mode on the camcorder. Is it just fatigue from holding it for long periods of time? I have to say that the active stabilization on the TD-20V is really good, especially while walking, so I would hope that the AX100 is at least somewhat comparable. Can anyone comment on this?


Also, how good is the internal mic on the camcorder? In addition to the TD-20V, I'm also planning to take a Zoom H2n digital recorder for recording 4-channel audio separately. The goal is to try and put together something of a 5.1 audio soundtrack since I understand that I cannot shoot in 4K AND 5.1 from the camcorder directly. Although I will have the ability to use the H2n as an external mic, I would be limiting my surround options considerably if I did that. So I'm just trying to figure out how good the mic is on it's own as I'd like to use the camcorder's PCM audio alongside the .WAV files from my H2n to come up with some great audio.


Anyway, I'm really looking forward to receiving the camcorder and trying out some of the stuff that you guys have been talking about!
Congrats on pulling the trigger! With regards to the microphone it Depends on what you will be videoing and distance from the camera etc. also it only records in stereo while shooting 4k. Voice recording more than a couple of feet will sound pretty bad and lots of ambient noise will creep in.

My planned list is as follows:

AX100
Rode stereo videomic pro and dead kitten for run and gun situations ( I have a field recorder and mics for other situations)
Samson airline micro camera edition for wireless lapel mic for a to camera situation and race the microphone with rode lav mic as they have a fluffy windjammer included.


As for engaging the active stabilisation, when doing so the clear view zoom turns on and while not as poor inequality as it is on the CX900 but not perfect from what I have read.. I have read a lot about camcorders in the last few months!

I am sure more knowledgeable folks will also assist you with your questions soon.
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post #2322 of 3485 Old 08-11-2014, 12:56 PM
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@ Ken Ross and @ Eugene157 I did notice on watching Alister Chapman's video that on hi screen it said 2hrs29 mins with the fv70 fitted.

Last edited by Faithful mutt; 08-11-2014 at 01:01 PM.
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post #2323 of 3485 Old 08-12-2014, 07:33 AM
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^ Close enough for jazz.
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post #2324 of 3485 Old 08-12-2014, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DualEdge View Post
Having already read the thread and seen monopods discussed from time to time, I'm wondering if someone can help me understand the benefit of walking around with one versus just engaging the active stabilization mode on the camcorder. Is it just fatigue from holding it for long periods of time? I have to say that the active stabilization on the TD-20V is really good, especially while walking, so I would hope that the AX100 is at least somewhat comparable. Can anyone comment on this?
The active stabilization mode is quite good, but it's still not as good as either a tripod or good quality monopod. Remember with active stabilization you will get some degree of cropping which will add to the long end of the telephoto (get you closer) but also lessen the wide angle coverage at the widest end. So it's a bit of give and take there and much depends on what you're shooting as to whether this hurts or helps you. Of course it's very easy to switch out of Active and engage OIS when you're at the wide end and want maximum coverage. You don't even need Active when shooting wide since stability is much less of an issue.

As for the monopod, it's a question of lugging these things around. I've gone back & forth on this numerous times and I'm still undecided. Honestly, I don't enjoy carrying any extra equipment that's not absolutely vital. Even knowing a monopod/tripod will enhance my stability, it's still a pain to carry them. Good quality monopods tend to be heavier than poorly made ones. It's not even just the weight, but it's your ability to blend in with the crowd. I've always found it's easiest to travel light.

As you use the camera, you'll find you'll learn techniques to stabilize the camera while using either OIS or Active. Using a tree, poll or some other fixed object to brace the camera, can often help add a degree of stabilization.

The most important thing is to have fun using the camera and ultimately only you can determine which direction that leads you (monopod or 'monopodless'). There's no right or wrong approach IMO, but if it's maximum stability you're after, you'll want to look at a good monopod or tripod. With that said, if you look at some of our posted videos, you can see you can shoot some nicely stable videos without assists.
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post #2325 of 3485 Old 08-12-2014, 11:35 AM
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^ Close enough for jazz.
Yep I guess so :<) not a bad runtime I guess.
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post #2326 of 3485 Old 08-12-2014, 11:49 AM
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Thank you guys for your input; it's very helpful!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
As for the monopod, it's a question of lugging these things around. I've gone back & forth on this numerous times and I'm still undecided. Honestly, I don't enjoy carrying any extra equipment that's not absolutely vital. Even knowing a monopod/tripod will enhance my stability, it's still a pain to carry them. Good quality monopods tend to be heavier than poorly made ones. It's not even just the weight, but it's your ability to blend in with the crowd. I've always found it's easiest to travel light.
I couldn't agree with this point more. As I mentioned, I will be filming in Japan and encountering large crowds at every turn, I'm sure. So travelling light and not drawing too much attention to myself are definitely my intentions. I used these videos to give me an idea of what I might want (I don't think this is the AX100 though):




I'm fully aware that I probably can't get this level of stability without external (probably expensive) equipment, but I do find this awfully impressive for walking around. I've never used a monopod before so I'll need to look into them. I do find that filming for long periods of time using just the wrist strap on the camcorder makes my hand cramp after a while, so if a monopod would even help with that; I'd likely get one. I did kind of dig that Sony multipod that was posted a few pages back, but I'm not sure if that would be too bulky/overkill for me (I'm looking for something that would fit in a large laptop backpack ideally).

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post #2327 of 3485 Old 08-12-2014, 01:05 PM
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Hey DualEdge, the youtube videos you poster clearly use some kind of heavy steadycam. You might get near that look by using stabilization in FCP or After Effects. But it will crop your footage.

You dont even feel the steps in the video... pretty smooth.
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post #2328 of 3485 Old 08-12-2014, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by leamas View Post
Did anybody have the following problem?


When shooting in an environment with many trees, and slowly panning and / or zooming is performed, the resulting clip flickers a bit when viewing on a 4K TV. Mine is 65F9000, could be easily the TV the problem but I don't understand why. The interesting aspect is that when I decrease the sharpness (via the TV and/or the PC driver) the effect is less visible. But then the overall quality drops.


Edit: many trees, bright light, so a lot of small leafs compose the scene.
Yes, I do get this frequently on my 4K videos (I watch them on HD monitor). Not only with trees but also with rich architectural details. I am not sure anything can be done about that, without reducing the sharpness. I attempted to fix this with Adobe Premiere Pro CC Anti-Flicker effect, didn't work

Someone can suggest tip how to resolve this?
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post #2329 of 3485 Old 08-12-2014, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DualEdge View Post

I'm wondering if someone can help me understand the benefit of walking around with one versus just engaging the active stabilization mode on the camcorder. Is it just fatigue from holding it for long periods of time? I have to say that the active stabilization on the TD-20V is really good, especially while walking, so I would hope that the AX100 is at least somewhat comparable. Can anyone comment on this?
Another option is to use software stabilization. Adobe Premiere Pro has 'Warp Stabilizer' effect that in general does the same as the active stabilization, cropping a little the video, but you can control it in different ways, for example you can make the image unmovable, and the video looks like taken from a tripod. If you use both stabilizations you will increase the cropping and so reduce further the resolution. That is why I never use the active mode, but almost always use Warp Stabilization in Adobe Premiere Pro (unless I used tripod of course)
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post #2330 of 3485 Old 08-12-2014, 01:41 PM
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Only problem with software stabilization is that it makes some viewers sea sick when buildings and such in the background start to warp.
I only use it maybe once every 30th video and I would never use it on a walking shoot. To me its an emergency fix and not a standard procedure.

A tip is to use a light weight travel tripod. They weigh less than the camera and take up less space while folded. But they can be used as tripod as long as its not to windy, a monopod, a stabiliser, shoulder rig, or what ever your imagination comes up with.
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post #2331 of 3485 Old 08-12-2014, 01:54 PM
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Only problem with software stabilization is that it makes some viewers sea sick when buildings and such in the background start to warp.
I only use it maybe once every 30th video and I would never use it on a walking shoot. To me its an emergency fix and not a standard procedure.

A tip is to use a light weight travel tripod. They weigh less than the camera and take up less space while folded. But they can be used as tripod as long as its not to windy, a monopod, a stabiliser, shoulder rig, or what ever your imagination comes up with.
Yes, on walking shoot ugly warping can happen frequently, especially if there are walls or other objects moving close by the camera. Otherwise it works perfectly well (at least in Adobe Premiere Pro). For all situations where you would use tripod you can always use software stabilization.
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post #2332 of 3485 Old 08-12-2014, 02:01 PM
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For all situations where you would use tripod you can always use software stabilization.
IMO absolutly not.
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post #2333 of 3485 Old 08-12-2014, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milosh9k View Post
Yes, I do get this frequently on my 4K videos (I watch them on HD monitor). Not only with trees but also with rich architectural details. I am not sure anything can be done about that, without reducing the sharpness. I attempted to fix this with Adobe Premiere Pro CC Anti-Flicker effect, didn't work

Someone can suggest tip how to resolve this?
I don't know first of all what is the origin of the problem. Something badly encoded in the clip maybe ?! If not, that means it can be solved somehow in the output. What I wonder is, you say that also the rich architectural details suffer from this. This doesn't happen to me. Maybe also the TV / player plays a role. What is your setup?
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I share Mattias' view on software stabilization. I use FCPX which has stabilization features similar to Adobe PP's and have used some plug-ins such as Lock & Load with FCP7 a few years back. Though they have different levels of manual control over the parameters, they pretty much have similar benefits and downsides. From my experience, if you are particularly averse to anything less than really stable image your only choice is using a tripod or a handheld stabilizer such as steadicams or Glidecams. Software alone won't cut it. Neither do the inbuilt systems in the cameras though the gyro-stabilizing system in a few Sony consumer Handycams seems to come closer than any onboard systems I've used.

A Manfrotto monopod with small foldable legs and a fluid panning mechanism at the base has also been useful in my field use but the whole stick plus a tilt-only fluid head is not very compact and quite heavy. I never carried it around on my vacation trips though having it would definitely have helped with steadying the shots a great deal.

I agree with Ken Ross that one's dealing with this stability issue depends a lot on factors like the willingness to be burdened with the extra gear or the conspicuousness that comes with it, the efforts and time required to do it right in case of steadycam use, the tolerance of the shakiness in the image etc. and so on.

By the way, I'm 100% sure the 4K Japanese walking videos above were shot with at least a medium or even full-sized steadycam. It would have been nearly impossible to get a walking shot that smooth with a camera's OIS alone or a light weight stabilizer system. The clips also show a very good steadycam handling skill of the camera's operator.
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post #2335 of 3485 Old 08-13-2014, 12:12 AM
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You can use a tripod as a stability device and may work for you.

Extend the centre column and keep legs at their shortest. When you have mounted your camera close the legs and off you go. Works quite well in most situations. Hold the tripod by the centre column as you walk.. Not used this in a few years myself but worth a try..
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post #2336 of 3485 Old 08-13-2014, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DualEdge View Post

Having already read the thread and seen monopods discussed from time to time, I'm wondering if someone can help me understand the benefit of walking around with one versus just engaging the active stabilization mode on the camcorder. Is it just fatigue from holding it for long periods of time? I have to say that the active stabilization on the TD-20V is really good, especially while walking, so I would hope that the AX100 is at least somewhat comparable. Can anyone comment on this?

I have the sony monopod vctimp1
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-VCTMP1-Mu...s=sony+monopod

fotomate vpod s
http://www.amazon.com/Fotomate-Unive...otomate+vpod+s


barska camera grip
http://www.amazon.com/BARSKA-Accu-Ha...mera+hand+grip


I don't use the ballhead that comes with the above, I use the manfrotto head connect to the monopod
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._Head_for.html


on our trip this year. took the sony cx760 with sony monopod. you can easily take video of your entire family with you in video by attaching the sony monopod with sony mini tripod that comes with it.


been using the sony ax100 a lot lately. problem is with sony monopod+manfrotto ballhead, or fotomate+manfrotto ballhead. my hand tires easily cause compare with an sony cx760. the ax100 is very heavy.


so I experiment using the barska+manfrotto+ax100. so far so good. but problem is when taking group video if you want to be included in the video you need use the sony monopod vctimp1.


also, on my next trip I will still bring my sony cx760 and the ax100 stays home. cause nothing beats the sony boss stabilizer. unless sony come out with 1" sensor with boss system before end of year.

Last edited by spyker1212; 08-13-2014 at 03:17 AM.
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post #2337 of 3485 Old 08-13-2014, 03:47 AM
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You guys are awesome; lots of great info here! My AX100 is coming today, so I plan to play around with it tonight. I do have an old tripod that I can try holding by hand and walking around, but I still plan to look into monopods. Also, I do have Vegas Pro, so software stabilization IS definitely a possibility in post. Oh, I almost forgot to ask, can someone tell me what the lens hood is for? I'm assuming that it is to help control lighting or frame shots, but that's just a guess. When I was initially messing around with the AX100 in the store a while ago, it wasn't attached so I had no idea it even came with one. Thanks!

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post #2338 of 3485 Old 08-13-2014, 05:01 AM
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Hey all,
I pulled the trigger on a new AX100 this morning and should have it on Wednesday or Thursday. I'm definitely a novice when it comes to camcorder usage, so I spent my weekend reading this thread from front to back before making my decision (a special thanks to who shared their videos). I bought this camcorder primarily for a trip that my wife and I are taking to Japan next month (our 3rd visit). We'll be there for 2 solid weeks, so I'm hoping to come back with some great footage between the AX100 and the TD-20V 3D camcorder that I'm also taking. I just have a few questions if some of you guys have the time to answer.


Having already read the thread and seen monopods discussed from time to time, I'm wondering if someone can help me understand the benefit of walking around with one versus just engaging the active stabilization mode on the camcorder. Is it just fatigue from holding it for long periods of time? I have to say that the active stabilization on the TD-20V is really good, especially while walking, so I would hope that the AX100 is at least somewhat comparable. Can anyone comment on this?


Also, how good is the internal mic on the camcorder? In addition to the TD-20V, I'm also planning to take a Zoom H2n digital recorder for recording 4-channel audio separately. The goal is to try and put together something of a 5.1 audio soundtrack since I understand that I cannot shoot in 4K AND 5.1 from the camcorder directly. Although I will have the ability to use the H2n as an external mic, I would be limiting my surround options considerably if I did that. So I'm just trying to figure out how good the mic is on it's own as I'd like to use the camcorder's PCM audio alongside the .WAV files from my H2n to come up with some great audio.


Anyway, I'm really looking forward to receiving the camcorder and trying out some of the stuff that you guys have been talking about!
I find the internal microphone to be quite good. In fact, I purchased the accessory microphone from Sony that plugs into the accessory shoe and can't tell a lot of difference from the internal one. You will not get surround sound on 4K because it records sound in a different format (I've heard that it is much better over all.) The built in stabilization is really rather poor.
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post #2339 of 3485 Old 08-13-2014, 07:13 AM
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Oh, I almost forgot to ask, can someone tell me what the lens hood is for? I'm assuming that it is to help control lighting or frame shots, but that's just a guess.
The lens hood stops stray light from hitting the sensor, which improves image quality, especially if you have a strong light source that's not in your scene (eg., off to the side). It also helps to protect the front of the lens from incidental contact.
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post #2340 of 3485 Old 08-13-2014, 09:53 AM
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I have the sony monopod vctimp1
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-VCTMP1-Mu...s=sony+monopod

fotomate vpod s
http://www.amazon.com/Fotomate-Unive...otomate+vpod+s


barska camera grip
http://www.amazon.com/BARSKA-Accu-Ha...mera+hand+grip


I don't use the ballhead that comes with the above, I use the manfrotto head connect to the monopod
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._Head_for.html


on our trip this year. took the sony cx760 with sony monopod. you can easily take video of your entire family with you in video by attaching the sony monopod with sony mini tripod that comes with it.


been using the sony ax100 a lot lately. problem is with sony monopod+manfrotto ballhead, or fotomate+manfrotto ballhead. my hand tires easily cause compare with an sony cx760. the ax100 is very heavy.


so I experiment using the barska+manfrotto+ax100. so far so good. but problem is when taking group video if you want to be included in the video you need use the sony monopod vctimp1.


also, on my next trip I will still bring my sony cx760 and the ax100 stays home. cause nothing beats the sony boss stabilizer. unless sony come out with 1" sensor with boss system before end of year.
I've had good success with a very cheap and light monopod equipped with a ball head, not a tilt head. With camera stabilization on, it works well. I don't use it normally. Instead I leave the monopod retracted, clamp it under my arm and adjust the ball head to accommodate aiming. My theory is that most camera movement comes from my hands and wrists, not my body. By clamping a monopod between my upper arm and body, hand and wrist movement are taken out of the equation. I did a video demo a few months ago. Attached are a couple snap shots that may show what I do.

Bill
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