Sony introduces 4K Xperia™ Z2, its waterproof smartphone with best ever display, 4K recording and Digital Noise Cancelling technology ! - Page 3 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #61 of 80 Old 02-28-2014, 07:31 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 23,203
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 381 Post(s)
Liked: 560
I'd agree Joe, the Note 4 may be your best choice if you stick with Verizon, as long as you don't mind the size. That's the biggest detriment for me though.

Joe, I'm not sure if you're aware, but there has been some talk in the cellphone community that the Xperia may actually come to all the U.S. carriers, Verizon included. Of course that would mean that Sony would have to design the phone to include CDMA, something they tend not to do with any of their phones. I think Verizon would be foolish not to discuss a deal with Sony given that I think the Xperia will be very popular this year.

As for superzooms, yeah, a 4K superzoom would be a kick! smile.gif

Although not a superzoom, I bet it's inevitable there will be an RX11 that will be the 4K equivalent of the RX10.
Ken Ross is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 80 Old 02-28-2014, 07:47 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 23,203
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 381 Post(s)
Liked: 560

Better clarity than we saw from the show samples, but keep in mind this is through a heavily tinted, apparently single engine prop plane. I'm actually surprised it looks as good as it does. At one point you'll see some bad 'jello' effects, but nothing unusual given the bounce in a plane like that and the fact that it's a cellphone.

Most concerning is the same 'squelching' effect from the mike. I'm really hoping Sony does something to tune the audio circuits, before final release, to control this apparent overloading. In fact, upon hearing this, I was pretty sure the video was authentic and had come from the Xperia Z2.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #63 of 80 Old 02-28-2014, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
jogiba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,707
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I'd agree Joe, the Note 4 may be your best choice if you stick with Verizon, as long as you don't mind the size. That's the biggest detriment for me though.

Joe, I'm not sure if you're aware, but there has been some talk in the cellphone community that the Xperia may actually come to all the U.S. carriers, Verizon included. Of course that would mean that Sony would have to design the phone to include CDMA, something they tend not to do with any of their phones. I think Verizon would be foolish not to discuss a deal with Sony given that I think the Xperia will be very popular this year.

As for superzooms, yeah, a 4K superzoom would be a kick! smile.gif

Although not a superzoom, I bet it's inevitable there will be an RX11 that will be the 4K equivalent of the RX10.
Ken, a 4K RX11 would be great. Did you see this :
jogiba is offline  
post #64 of 80 Old 02-28-2014, 08:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Troy LaMont's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Studio City, CA
Posts: 1,587
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 15
I'm not sure on the LG G Pro 2 and the Sony Z2, but on the Galaxy Note 3 the 4K recording is limited to 5 minutes of recording at a time, which I'm assuming serves two purposes: 1) To keep the heat down, 2) To keep the owner from eating up storage fast.

I'd be willing to bet on 4K/60p by years end also given the direction we're heading. Mobile processors I think are more oriented to running constantly and with the higher end phones they have the capability of ramping up or ramping down cores as needed, makes a huge difference on heat generation. I'm not as much in the know about camcorder processors as I am cell phones but I'm thinking they don't have that inherent capability to shut down cores as needed to reduce heat generation.

Also I think there are so many more components, specifically ones that move (lens gears, iris, zoom buttons, etc) that come into play inside a camcorder that would cause concern for heat generation. Cell phone architecture is much more simple than that so the issue with heat would probably be very minimal. As an example I've played graphically intense games on my tablet/phone for hours on end with just a slightly noticeable increase in temperature on my device.

Ken,

Nothing wrong with having both, I can definitely attest to that. It also gives me inspiration to capture things that I probably wouldn't have captured before knowing that I had that kind of visual capability in arms reach all the time.

Now that's how you supposed to drive!

Onkyo TX-NR807, Polk LSi15, Polk LSiC, Polk LSiF/X

Troy LaMont is offline  
post #65 of 80 Old 02-28-2014, 09:37 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 23,203
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 381 Post(s)
Liked: 560
Quote:
Originally Posted by jogiba View Post

Ken, a 4K RX11 would be great. Did you see this :

Thanks Joe. I generally like their videos and 'reviews', and they raise valid points but left out a few others. They obviously have a DSLR bias, but there are other considerations. Specifically:

* IMO the form factor of a camcorder cannot be beat. I've used both the DSLR form and the camcorder form for shooting video. For stability, there's no question in my mind the camcorder form factor is inherently better for video and more stable.
* The RX10 is great, no doubt about it, I love it. However they omit the biggest issue (IMO) with the camera, and that's its relatively poor OIS. It's almost impossible to get anything approaching a steady clip when you're anywhere near the limit of the zoom. Thus I try very hard to stay away from that and that effectively limits the zoom range. That should not be a factor at all with the AX100 as I expect the OIS will be more effective and the form factor will make it easier to hold steady. Sure you can carry a tripod with you, but that kind of defeats the whole concept of portability.
* The DSLR type camera for video (not the RX10 obviously) is prone to sensor dust when changing lenses, which can be a real problem once you get it. Particularly because you'll often not notice it until you get home. Even if you do see it while shooting, there's not much you can do about it in the field. Depending on the location of that ugly spot, it can really ruin your videos. No such issues with camcorders. I've had it happen on my NEX VG20, VG30 and Panasonic GH3. This is despite me trying to be very careful and very quick while changing lenses.
* You will generally get a very nice range of focal lengths with the one fixed lens of a camcorder. To duplicate that in a DSLR will generally require several heavy lenses.

Now these are obviously pluses for a camcorder and you can come up with another list in favor of a DSLR. But the reason I went with the RX10, was to get the great videos & stills, but not have to worry about lugging around a set of lenses. I really have no desire to do that anymore. Even if I got a GH4, I'd almost certainly stick the 14-140 lens on it and be done.

As for stills, I remember getting some very nice stills with my VG30.

And Joe, yes, an RX11 would be great and would be one reason I'd hold off on a GH4 purchase. Somewhat different cameras, but for me at least, I like the fixed lens concept.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #66 of 80 Old 02-28-2014, 09:37 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 23,203
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 381 Post(s)
Liked: 560
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy LaMont View Post

Ken,

Nothing wrong with having both, I can definitely attest to that. It also gives me inspiration to capture things that I probably wouldn't have captured before knowing that I had that kind of visual capability in arms reach all the time.

Yup, I agree Troy. That's my plan and I'm sticking to it. smile.gif
Ken Ross is offline  
post #67 of 80 Old 02-28-2014, 12:39 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
jogiba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,707
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 59
Ken, if the GH4 is priced at $1,500 I will get it but if it's $2,000 I will wait for a 4K 60fps camera or a 4K superzoom.
jogiba is offline  
post #68 of 80 Old 02-28-2014, 12:48 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 23,203
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 381 Post(s)
Liked: 560
Joe, I'd expect the body to run closer to $1,500 than $2,000. If it's on the higher end, I think that would be a mistake by Panasonic.

For me, if the AX100 turns out to be what I think it could be, I'll probably have no need to get the GH4. As I mentioned, I have reservations about interchangeable lenses, carrying these things around etc. As a result, I'd almost certainly just stick the 14-140 lens on the GH4 and be done with it. That would only give me 10X which is a bit skimpy. Doable but skimpy.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #69 of 80 Old 02-28-2014, 12:50 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 23,203
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 381 Post(s)
Liked: 560

So here's a better Xperia Z2 clip from the show that's sharper than the others. This guy does a bit better than the others.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #70 of 80 Old 02-28-2014, 01:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
markr041's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,016
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked: 108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Joe, I'd expect the body to run closer to $1,500 than $2,000. If it's on the higher end, I think that would be a mistake by Panasonic.

For me, if the AX100 turns out to be what I think it could be, I'll probably have no need to get the GH4. As I mentioned, I have reservations about interchangeable lenses, carrying these things around etc. As a result, I'd almost certainly just stick the 14-140 lens on the GH4 and be done with it. That would only give me 10X which is a bit skimpy. Doable but skimpy.

The 14-140mm lens, which I have, is really bad in low light (and I mean low, not dark). A GH4 with that lens will just not be sufficient if you do a lot of indoor shooting. The Sony 4K camcorder has at least a fast lens at the wide end. The advantage of changing lenses is precisely so you can have the right lens for the setting - fast lens for indoors, wide-range telephoto or very long telephoto or very wide-angle for outdoors.

Another advantage of interchangeable lens systems is that you can invest in lenses and then just pay for body upgrades. Trading up with fixed lens cameras/camcorders is more expensive since you have to buy the lens too. There have not been great advances in lenses compared with codecs, sensors except maybe for optical stabilization. For some of us always staying up with the technological frontier, interchangeable lenses is efficient. But I agree absolutely - carrying around multiple lenses for shooting is more than a nuisance.
markr041 is offline  
post #71 of 80 Old 02-28-2014, 01:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
slimoli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Miami area
Posts: 4,647
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by jogiba View Post

Ken, if the GH4 is priced at $1,500 I will get it but if it's $2,000 I will wait for a 4K 60fps camera or a 4K superzoom.

see my post on the GH4 board:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1496201/4k-panasonic-gh4-may-arrive-this-spring-to-compete-against-canon-cinema-cameras/180#post_24422594

Standard Definition Causes Lung Cancer, Heart Disease, Emphysema, And May Complicate Pregnancy
slimoli is offline  
post #72 of 80 Old 02-28-2014, 01:28 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 23,203
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 381 Post(s)
Liked: 560
I hear ya Mark. I know the advantages of interchangeable, been there done that. But for me at least, the disadvantages outweigh the advantages at this point. I'm ready to go back to a camcorder style body for stability and a better OIS implementation. Shakiness in videos really bothers me and I know you can appreciate that. It's the one area of disappointment for me with the RX10.

The last time I took two lenses with me was to the zoo with my GH3. There I had a 100-300 and a shorter zoom (can't even recall which). Two relatively small lenses, but even there I found it such a pain carrying and juggling the lenses to get the right focal length. I even missed one great shot because by the time I swapped my lens, the shot was gone. Truth be told, with many traditional camcorders, I could have had both ranges covered easily.

As for using some of these lenses indoors, I always look at the wide end for speed and don't get overly concerned about the loss of speed with zooming. Rarely do I ever zoom indoors. I think that's a common mistake made by many people and most of the time, unnecessary. So rarely would I ever have to worry about losing speed while zooming indoors.

You're right though about the cost equation. However given the convenience, I'm willing to pay extra as I upgrade over the years...or is it the months? I'm thankful for Ebay. wink.gif
Ken Ross is offline  
post #73 of 80 Old 03-01-2014, 09:29 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 23,203
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 381 Post(s)
Liked: 560

Xperia Z2 sample
Ken Ross is offline  
post #74 of 80 Old 03-01-2014, 09:14 PM
Member
 
P&Struefan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 111
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 24
The resolution and details are impressive as viewed on my 1080p tablet. Not sure about the motion and the EIS since the clip is a little too short. The audio is typical mobile device audio i.e. passable, and highly susceptible to wind noise.
P&Struefan is offline  
post #75 of 80 Old 03-02-2014, 05:15 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 23,203
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 381 Post(s)
Liked: 560
Actually I think the audio is a big issue with the Sony Z2 thus far. Every clip that's been posted, indoors or out, have a muffled quality to them. A number of posters have commented on it if you look at the comments under the clips uploaded from the Mobile show.

I'm hoping it's because these are pre-production models and the audio hasn't been tuned. If it's somehow related to how Sony waterproofed the phone, then all bets are off.

I'm also concerned that if the same mike is used for phone calls, the Sony could have some dismal call quality.

I was really high on this being my next phone, but now I'm not so sure.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #76 of 80 Old 03-02-2014, 07:11 AM
Member
 
P&Struefan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 111
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 24
A big chunk of my work nowadays involves doing post production of footage shot by mobile devices like cell phones and tablets so I kind of get used to awful audio recorded by them. Most of the contracts I've got are clips from Samsung and Apple devices but very few from others but I do remember the audio from Sony newer waterproof phones like the Z, Z1 etc. was more or less comparable to that from the non-waterproof Samsungs and iPhones. For even low-budget commercial works I could say only a tiny fraction of the recorded audio tracks from those mobile devices is usable, just usable and not even good. We normally have to lay separate tracks from other sources in the final edits. For vacation or use as a home video camcorders, I think the audio is generally OK as long as you know their limitations. Loud music in enclosed areas such as in nightclubs, small concert halls etc. and windy area like on the mountain, near the beaches will almost certainly cause the devices problems.

Again in the case of the beach clip from the new (pre-production?) Sony, I heard some extent of attenuation of the low frequency that encompasses the noise of the wind rumbles as being picked up by any unmuffled mic. The result was, yes, very bad as you said with "squelching" sound throughout the clip until the usual rumbles crept in towards the end.

On the iPhone there is a solution available for some time in the market called IXY from Rode. It's basically a plug-in stereo mic that records up to 96KHz sampling rate and up to 24 bit depth. The mic can be muffled if needed like most other external sound recorders can.The audio from this mic is fantastic but it's only compatible with iOS devices. The new external mic to be sold along with the new Sony phone looks to be able to do quite the same to Sony and other?? android phones at the more usual but perfectly adequate 48KHz, 16-bit quality. But of course you have to carry it around with you if you really care about sound as you do about the video.
P&Struefan is offline  
post #77 of 80 Old 03-02-2014, 07:28 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 23,203
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 381 Post(s)
Liked: 560
P&S, yeah, the attenuation in the beach clip is pretty clear and if I only heard it in that clip I wouldn't be concerned. My concern arises more out of the same type of audio recorded indoors in the clips from the Mobile Congress show. I can honestly say it's the worst audio I've heard in a cellphone. I've had Samsungs and I currently have an LG, and none of them recorded audio so poorly.

Yes, a potential solution is the outboard mike, but to carry around a mike for the occasional video shot, seems a bit silly to me. After all, this is just a cellphone. With that said, I think we should expect better audio than what sounds like an overloading of the amp and a subsequent squelching of the audio. Very weird.

Just as a simple A/B, compare the audio from the Sony clip I posted above (post #69) with the audio from the Samsung at the same show that I linked in this post (this one is only in 720p, but we're just concentrating on the audio). Huge difference IMO. There's much more bass and much more resonance in the Samsung clip.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #78 of 80 Old 03-04-2014, 01:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Troy LaMont's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Studio City, CA
Posts: 1,587
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Ken did you get a chance to take a look at that sample indoors vid I posted? Thoughts?

Now that's how you supposed to drive!

Onkyo TX-NR807, Polk LSi15, Polk LSiC, Polk LSiF/X

Troy LaMont is offline  
post #79 of 80 Old 03-04-2014, 01:29 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 23,203
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 381 Post(s)
Liked: 560
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy LaMont View Post

Ken did you get a chance to take a look at that sample indoors vid I posted? Thoughts?

Troy, I kept trying, even the next day, and it was always 'disabled'. If it's still up, I'll try again.

Edit: Finally got to see it Troy. Looks OK, but there's an obvious resolution hit to the indoor shot. I guess that's to be expected. I did see noise below the action figure, but again, I guess it's to be expected, these still are cellphone cams. smile.gif

Thanks for uploading.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #80 of 80 Old 03-04-2014, 02:19 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Troy LaMont's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Studio City, CA
Posts: 1,587
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Not a problem.

Now that's how you supposed to drive!

Onkyo TX-NR807, Polk LSi15, Polk LSiC, Polk LSiF/X

Troy LaMont is offline  
Reply Camcorders

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off