Sony A7s will shoot 4k video! Live announcement at 2pm Las Vegas time on Sunday! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 206 Old 04-04-2014, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
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If that is true then I will cancel my GH4 pre-order.
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At 7pm on Sunday (April 6) in Las Vegas Sony will announce the new Full Frame E-mount camera called “Sony A7s”. And according to one of our trusted sources it can record 4K video! Note: Today Sony announced a 4K partnerhsip with Fifa (more about it at Newsshooter). I am still not 100% sure yet if it will also feature the superb A6000 hybrid AF. But my guess is that the answer is YES and this could be the reason why it has the “S” suffix for “Speed” smile.gif

A7s unveiling: You can follow the live stream presentation here on SonyAlphaRumors at 2pm Las Vegas time. So you can see the A7s as first and live here on SAR! Other time zones:
- 5pm New York time on Sunday April 6
- 3am (22:00) London time on Sunday April 6
- 11pm (23:00) Berlin time on Sunday April 6
- 6am (06:00) Tokyo time on Monday April 7
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-sony-a7s-will-shoot-4k-video/
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post #2 of 206 Old 04-04-2014, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
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I thought it would be 2015 before Sony came out with 4K in the A7 but I guess I was wrong.
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Sony is rumored to be launched a new A7s mirrorless camera this Sunday at its NAB 2014 press conference, which kicks off at 5pm EDT. The camera is believed to feature the same body and design as the current A7 and A7R cameras.

The big new feature the A7s adds, however, is 4K video capture.

The addition of 4K video to the A7 line is a significant one, assuming Sony keeps the price down. In terms of hardware, I don’t expect the A7s to be much different from the A7R and A7. Accordingly, the price should not be forced into the stratosphere. And with the Panasonic GH4 at $1700, Sony could be aggressive and stay in the range of the A7 and A7R prices.

We’ll have more from NAB this weekend at the press conference. Stay tuned for the latest.
http://www.photographybay.com/2014/04/04/sony-a7s-4k-mirrorless-camera-coming-this-sunday-at-nab/
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post #3 of 206 Old 04-04-2014, 09:54 AM
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That would be freaking sweet. Fast E-mount and Alpha lenses are not cheap though. Last time I looked they were more costly than the F-mount and EF-mount equivalents. I would believe this rumor because Sony obviously uses a product differentiation business strategy to increase its market share against Nikon and Canon. It had to. I also wonder if that means we will see a 4K VG900
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post #4 of 206 Old 04-04-2014, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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I have the new 28-70 FE OSS lens along with 24mm F1.4, 35mm F1.4, 50mm F1.4 and 85mm F1.4 primes that I use with my VG900 so I am all set for the 4K A7s. BTW my Sony HVL-F60M External Flash and Sony ECM-W1M Wireless Microphone for Cameras with Multi-Interface Shoe will work on it also.biggrin.gif
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post #5 of 206 Old 04-04-2014, 10:37 AM
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I think because of potential over heating issues, 4k videos might eighter be 24p max frame rate or it'll have to crop a smaller portion of the chip. It could also be both. With that said, the price might not be too bad considering the regular A7 is selling for $1,700 at B&H. We'll just have to hope the real resolution, moire and aliasing isn't too bad.
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post #6 of 206 Old 04-04-2014, 10:48 AM
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LOL my RX1 shoots video but it looks like line-skipping crap. So I wouldn't rush to make a decision on the A7s until you see some actual footage.
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post #7 of 206 Old 04-04-2014, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
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I bet it will have the same 4K specs as the AX100 with XAVC S 4K @ 24 and 30 fps on SD cards with exFAT file system.
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Various sources have told Sony Alpha Rumors that an A7S is coming on Sunday “in Las Vegas”. It isn’t hard to figure out what is starting in Las Vegas this weekend. If the rumours are true the Sony A7S will be at NAB 2014 – the largest video, broadcast and cinema trade show of the year.

Is Sony about to give us a ‘full frame GH4′?

Both Rudi at Slashcam and I think this could well be the case. Why announce a stills camera update at NAB? By coincidence a few days ago when I picked up the Sony A6000 a Sony manager mentioned 4K and A7R in the same sentence. Apparently he was told by one of the company’s Japanese engineers that the A7R had 4K capability all along but not the heat dissipation or power economy to make it go continuously and reliably.

Processors get more power efficient all the time and cooler… The GH4 runs incredibly cooly, isn’t too expensive to manufacture and preserves battery life as if it is recording plain old 1080p!

Usually the “S” stands for superior and we know Sony have plans for 4K DSLRs and mirrorless cameras in the pipeline to help encourage their big push into consumer 4K. Note consumer not just pro! Sony already have some well established pro 4K video and cinema offerings.

At the start of the 1080p era Sony were instrumental in pushing HD as well. Sony need people to go out and buy 4K TVs to revitalise a huge industry.

So far all this is speculation and it should be treated as a rumour, but an E-mount full frame 4K mirrorless camera would be at the very top of my shopping list.

Let’s see what happens as the NAB show gears up from today onwards. Sunday is just a few days away and I think we’ll be hearing a lot more, and not just from Sony…
http://www.eoshd.com/content/12461/sony-a7s-4k-full-frame-mirrorless-camera-announced-sunday-nab
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post #8 of 206 Old 04-04-2014, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by hatchback View Post

LOL my RX1 shoots video but it looks like line-skipping crap. So I wouldn't rush to make a decision on the A7s until you see some actual footage.
4K has 8mp vs 2mp for 1080p so it should look much better.
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post #9 of 206 Old 04-04-2014, 11:23 AM
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So, as predicted, Sony have a GH4 competitor as well. That leaves Canon as the last major company out of the loop. If they don't get their act in gear, they will go the way of the Dodo like Nikon.
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post #10 of 206 Old 04-04-2014, 11:34 AM
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I agree with Hatch, Joe, wait and see how this video is actually produced within the camera. Is it a full sensor read like in the RX10/AX100? This kind of sensor reading is obviously producing some of the best video these days. I do agree it will probably be 30p.

The other thing is that Panasonic has such a great reputation for video quality in their GH series, I'd be surprised if the Sony DSLR beats it.

How big is the A7 relative to the GH4?
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post #11 of 206 Old 04-04-2014, 11:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Ken the 4K A7s has a 12mp full frame sensor and is smaller than the GH4 !



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The Sony A7s keeps surprising us! It will get announced on Sunday already(!) and it will record 4K video. And now I just learned it features a new 12 megapixel Full Frame sensor! It completely goes in the opposite direction of the market who calls for “more megapixels”. And I think Sony’s move makes a lot of sense: Larger pixels, cleaner high ISO images, more fps! This is going to be an amazing 4K camera!

Reminder: The A7s will be unveiled live at 2pm in Las Vegas (on Sunday). You can follow the live video stream on SAR!!! This is the time in other time zones:
- 5pm New York time on Sunday April 6
- 3am (22:00) London time on Sunday April 6
- 11pm (23:00) Berlin time on Sunday April 6
- 6am (06:00) Tokyo time on Monday April 7
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-sony-a7s-has-12-megapixel-full-frame-sensor/
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post #12 of 206 Old 04-04-2014, 12:08 PM
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Very nice Joe! Looks like you saved a bunch of money on lenses. smile.gif

Now if you call Geico, they can save you money on your car insurance. biggrin.gif
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post #13 of 206 Old 04-04-2014, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Ken, I think I will not be the only one to cancel a GH4 pre-order if this is true.
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post #14 of 206 Old 04-04-2014, 12:54 PM
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12 megapixels? I would be very interested in that sensor then, because that could mean a true 4K 4096x2160 17:9 video portion of the sensor. A full 3:2 ratio sensor would give you 4096x2730 for stills, which would be over 11 megapixels. This would mean fast stills with high low-light sensitivity and awesome 4K video recording with no moire or aliasing, it just needs a global shutter and 48p/60p recording and it will be perfect. Maybe throw in an optional XLR mic adaptor too with 24/96 PCM audio.
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post #15 of 206 Old 04-04-2014, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
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The Sony XLR-K1M Adapter and Microphone Kit connects to the Sony Multi-Interface Shoe on the A7.

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post #16 of 206 Old 04-04-2014, 01:53 PM
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Yes, with that sensor it would be video centric camera.

It will be interesting to see what happens on Sunday. I guess this is what Phillip Bloom was hinting about then. He apparently has a new camera for testing that he is very excited about.
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post #17 of 206 Old 04-04-2014, 01:54 PM
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After you de-Bayer a 4096x2160 pixel sensor you end up with only 1512 lines of measured resolution. It's a lot more than 1080p but still well short of true 4k. Personally, I don't think I can go back to 12Mpel stills so that would be a deal breaker for me.
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post #18 of 206 Old 04-04-2014, 01:58 PM
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I don't think too many people would be using it for stills.
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post #19 of 206 Old 04-04-2014, 03:56 PM
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I'm tempted by the A7 line with the incredible DxO rating for the Zeiss FE 55mm f1.8, but it sure would be nice to have one camera that can shoot great stills and great video.
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post #20 of 206 Old 04-04-2014, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
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The 12mp 4K A7s should kill the 16mp Nikon D4s in low light and make a great companion to my 24mp VG900.
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post #21 of 206 Old 04-04-2014, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jogiba View Post

The 12mp 4K A7s should kill the 16mp Nikon D4s in low light and make a great companion to my 24mp VG900.
There's a lot more to the D4s than a great low light signal/noise ratio. Like the fact it can focus accurately in low light as well with phase-detect autofocus, very high burst rate, very large buffer, etc.
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post #22 of 206 Old 04-04-2014, 06:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Full frame Sony A7S ‘with 1.1x sensor crop in 4K mode and XAVC-S codec’ : BTW the Canon EOS 1D C has a 1.3x crop in 4K mode so the Sony A7S will be closest to full frame in 4K mode , example my 24mm F1.4 FF lens would be 26.4mm with the 1.1x crop.
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I’ve just had some information from a source that may be of interest to those awaiting Sony’s NAB announcement.

As we know from previous rumours the Sony A7S will feature a 12MP sensor. This is very good news for video.

My source says this will be 4230 x 2820 for stills. The cinema DCI format of 4K as seen in the GH4 is 4096 x 2160 which would mean only a very small crop of the sensor.

However according to the source the A7S features the same codec as the AX100, XAVC-S, which is Sony’s de facto consumer 4K standard. This consumer codec only supports 4K at Ultra HD resolutions in 16:9, which means a slightly larger crop of 3840 x 2160 (around 8MP).

That amounts to a 1.1x crop over full frame in terms of how wide your lenses are… The same crop as Speed Booster on APS-C (E-mount). Still very little difference so we really are going to get real full frame VistaVision 4K out of this beast.

I also did some research on XAVC-S. It records in MP4 format but perhaps rather disturbingly it has a much lower bitrate than the GH4′s 4K codec. It is just 60Mbit/s vs 100Mbit/s on the GH4 in Ultra HD.

I have not yet graded any footage from the Sony AX100 but it will be interesting to see how XAVC-S stands up at that bitrate. It is a very modern codec and bitrate isn’t everything.
http://www.eoshd.com/content/12469/full-frame-sony-a7s-1-1x-sensor-crop-4k-mode-xavc-s-codec


Nikon D4S video quality not suitable for pro use :
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The supposably ‘full HD’ mode is nothing of the sort, it’s misleadingly labeled and marketed as high definition / 1080p. Detail is still mushy. Moire and aliasing still abundant. Plastic skin tones, poor colour, jagged edges to bright reds, greens and blues. There’s all sorts of weird stuff going on in the image for your $6000. For this you can wait a month and buy three GH4 bodies!
http://www.eoshd.com/content/12228/nikon-d4s-video-quality-suitable-pro-use
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post #23 of 206 Old 04-04-2014, 07:48 PM
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Well Joe, so now you'll have to put up with the same crap from the stone throwers that we AX100 owners have had to endure (what, XAVC-S? what, 60Mbps for 4K?). It makes no difference how good the video is, just wait. wink.gif

My advice? Don't worry, just enjoy the great video. smile.gif

BTW, it's hard to believe that the guy who wrote that still has to ask the question "it will be interesting to see how XAVC-S stands up at that bitrate". Huh? There's only a few hundred XA100 videos out there...including native clips he can download.
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post #24 of 206 Old 04-04-2014, 08:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Ken, I am not worried about that after viewing that first 4K video by Glen Elliott .

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post #25 of 206 Old 04-04-2014, 08:25 PM
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After using the AX100 for the last couple of weeks, I wouldn't worry either. Here's a quick one I did yesterday. You can download the original file if you're a member:
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post #26 of 206 Old 04-04-2014, 08:37 PM - Thread Starter
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I like the sharpness in your video Ken and the skin tones. I wonder if Sony will use the same bit-rate as the AX100 or maybe go higher like in the AX1. If they came out with 4K at 60fps and 150Mbps like the AX1 using the new UHS-II SDXC cards that would be unreal but I don't think Sony would do that this soon.
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post #27 of 206 Old 04-04-2014, 09:00 PM
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Thanks Joe.

I'd be surprised if they use the new cards given the XAVC-S format, but I guess you'll have to wait until Sunday.

I'll say this, I think you'll have less compatibility issues in playback with the Sony codec as opposed to the Panasonic.
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post #28 of 206 Old 04-05-2014, 01:49 AM
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Any rumor stating that the body will be the same size as the original A7? It wouldn't surprise me if it gets a little bigger for obvious reasons but on the other hand, Sony could have engineered components that deals with the heat better and keep it the same size. One things for sure is that low light shooting in 4K will be incredible if the chip specs turns out being accurate.

Seams like Amazon is desperately trying to get people to buy the original A7 before Sony shows off the 4K version.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=pe_368620_115494340_pe_row1_b3/?docId=1001928541&ie=UTF8&plgroup=1
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post #29 of 206 Old 04-05-2014, 05:58 AM - Thread Starter
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If it is the same size as the A7 they might have a newer cooler running processor to avoid heat problems. I think many still shooters will stick with the 24mp A7 and 36mp A7r unless they want a camera for low light like the new 16mp Nikon D4s.
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Sony FE lens designer hints the the chance to see a 85mm fast FE prime soon.

I am still not 100% sure about it but tomorrow (Sunday 6) there is a fair chance Sony will unveil new FE lenses too! Last weeks Mark Weir from Sony US said we won’t have long to wait to see the new lenses. And he also said fast aperture lenses are in the works too.

Today a French SAR reader (Merci Max!) pointed me out to a new Sony interview posted at Lesnumeriques (google translation here). Here Sony FE lens designer Naoki Miyagawa said he would like to build an e-mount 85mm f1.4 (or even f1.2) if he had time (given by Sony) to do so. And I don’t know why but my instinct says he already designed the lens and that it’s ready for the market smile.gif
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-fe-lens-designer-hints-the-the-chance-to-see-a-85mm-fast-fe-prime-soon/

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post #30 of 206 Old 04-05-2014, 09:52 AM
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This will definitely be one of the cameras I'll want to play with at NAB and that's if I'm allowed. Sometimes they don't want people to touch certain cameras becasue it isn't ready yet to be handled by the public.
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