*Stabilized* Samsung Galaxy S 5 4K Video - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 35 Old 05-06-2014, 05:56 AM - Thread Starter
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I posted a Samsung Galaxy S 5 4K video in this forum. The lack of in-camera stabilization and the consequent jitter are an obvious problem. I have re-edited the video using the stabilization plug-in in Sony Vegas Pro 13 applied to each individual clip. Here is the stabilized version of the video:

https://vimeo.com/94099207

One clip could not be stabilized (for no obvious reason) in the software (flags) and in one scene the branch shaking in the breeze fooled the software algorithm to de-shake it and thereby cause the background to shake! Otherwise, it seems to do a pretty good job.

The advantage of 4K is that there is plenty of resolution so that viewed at 1080 there is no apparent loss from stabilizing in post.

Here is the original untreated video:

https://vimeo.com/92506389

Both videos are downloadable for better viewing than the stream.

With the possibility of successful post-stabilization, does the Galaxy make a for a good, cheap 4K camcorder?
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post #2 of 35 Old 05-06-2014, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by markr041 View Post


With the possibility of successful post-stabilization, does the Galaxy make a for a good, cheap 4K camcorder?

Thanks for trying this. I'm starting to consider getting my first smartphone. It would be the S5 because of the 4K video. It may be that you've guided me to yet another camera!
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post #3 of 35 Old 05-06-2014, 06:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for trying this. I'm starting to consider getting my first smartphone. It would be the S5 because of the 4K video. It may be that you've guided me to yet another camera!

It also makes and takes calls!
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post #4 of 35 Old 05-06-2014, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

I posted a Samsung Galaxy S 5 4K video in this forum. The lack of in-camera stabilization and the consequent jitter are an obvious problem. I have re-edited the video using the stabilization plug-in in Sony Vegas Pro 13 applied to each individual clip. Here is the stabilized version of the video:

With the possibility of successful post-stabilization, does the Galaxy make a for a good, cheap 4K camcorder?

mark,

I read from the sony ax100 manual that 64gb memory can record 2hr and 10minutes. is it the same from Samsung galaxy s5?

will 1min video taken by ax100 have same file size as 1min video taken by galaxy s5? tia
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post #5 of 35 Old 05-06-2014, 08:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by spyker1212 View Post

mark,

I read from the sony ax100 manual that 64gb memory can record 2hr and 10minutes. is it the same from Samsung galaxy s5?

will 1min video taken by ax100 have same file size as 1min video taken by galaxy s5? tia

Yes, approximately. The bitrate shooting 4K is about 50Mbps for the Galaxy and just slightly over that (on average) for the AX100. So the Galaxy should be able to record somewhat more than 2 hr and 10 minutes worth of video clips in 4K on a 64GB micro SDXC card.
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post #6 of 35 Old 05-06-2014, 09:31 AM
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Mark, the stability is certainly better, but it appears the software does introduce a kind of wobble in parts of the picture. Still preferable to the instability of the original footage.

With that said, I do miss the 4K resolution. Have you tried stabilizing it in 4K and if so, does the result land somewhere between 3K and 4K?
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post #7 of 35 Old 05-06-2014, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Mark, the stability is certainly better, but it appears the software does introduce a kind of wobble in parts of the picture. Still preferable to the instability of the original footage.

With that said, I do miss the 4K resolution. Have you tried stabilizing it in 4K and if so, does the result land somewhere between 3K and 4K?

It is 4k: stabilized in 4K and output as 4K. You can download the original stabilized 4K video from Vimeo.
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post #8 of 35 Old 05-06-2014, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

It is 4k: stabilized in 4K and output as 4K. You can download the original stabilized 4K video from Vimeo.

Oops, dumb dumb was not logged in to Vimeo, thus I thought you had only done this as a 1080p project. Downloading now. redface.gif
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post #9 of 35 Old 05-06-2014, 09:55 AM
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Just amazing when one considers this is a cellphone and with SD90 colors yet! biggrin.gif

Seriously, the post IS does make the video so much better, even with the wobble. It's almost embarrassing that this is a 'throw away' feature in this cellphone.

I haven't tried software stabilization with mine, but I haven't shot much with it. Nice job Mark.
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post #10 of 35 Old 05-06-2014, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Just amazing when one considers this is a cellphone and with SD90 colors yet! biggrin.gif

Seriously, the post IS does make the video so much better, even with the wobble. It's almost embarrassing that this is a 'throw away' feature in this cellphone.

I haven't tried software stabilization with mine, but I haven't shot much with it. Nice job Mark.

Thanks. And it's waterproof!
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post #11 of 35 Old 05-06-2014, 10:26 AM
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And dustproof! wink.gif
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post #12 of 35 Old 05-06-2014, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Mark, the stability is certainly better, but it appears the software does introduce a kind of wobble in parts of the picture. Still preferable to the instability of the original footage.
Exactly. The original was jerky but natural, the stablized one has CMOS-like jello effect, it is even worse than a shake. I noticed that CMOS video is harder to stabilize than CCD, I suspect because of rolling shutter.
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post #13 of 35 Old 05-06-2014, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

Exactly. The original was jerky but natural, the stablized one has CMOS-like jello effect, it is even worse than a shake. I noticed that CMOS video is harder to stabilize than CCD, I suspect because of rolling shutter.

There is a rolling shutter option for the Vegas Pro stabilization plug-in. I did not use it as I did not think the camera, with its small sensor, had this problem - not seen in pans, for example. I can try that option.
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post #14 of 35 Old 05-06-2014, 10:06 PM
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Mark,

In FCPX, the rolling shutter correction is only effective in reducing the diagonal line effect when the footage has relatively constant speed (either fast or slow) of panning or tilting. It can't do much about the extreme but very short duration rolling shutter artifact hidden behind the high-frequency shake or jerkiness associated with general handholding I see in the original, unstabilized/uncorrected footage. These micro wobbles often show up even if the framing of the footage is well stabilized. I think this must have something to do with CMOS's rolling shutter as the footage from my ancient Sony FX1 (3-CCD) never had this problem. Maybe someone here who have certain models of CCD-based JVC or the 4K BMPC can chime in?

Your Vegas Pro or some other plug-ins may work better but I'm on a Mac and can't try them.
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post #15 of 35 Old 05-06-2014, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

Exactly. The original was jerky but natural, the stablized one has CMOS-like jello effect, it is even worse than a shake. I noticed that CMOS video is harder to stabilize than CCD, I suspect because of rolling shutter.
There is a rolling shutter option for the Vegas Pro stabilization plug-in. I did not use it as I did not think the camera, with its small sensor, had this problem - not seen in pans, for example. I can try that option.
As P&STruefan said, it won't help much. I tried it in Vegas. OTOH, I have a non-stabilized CCD still camera which can also shoot videos, so I take it sometimes with me and then stabilize in post. Still, if the video is stable at the first place it looks better.
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post #16 of 35 Old 05-06-2014, 11:22 PM
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Mark, any good reason to upgrade from Vegas Pro 12 to 13 ? Thanks.

Standard Definition Causes Lung Cancer, Heart Disease, Emphysema, And May Complicate Pregnancy
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post #17 of 35 Old 05-07-2014, 04:27 AM
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It also makes and takes calls!
The salesman said it would connect to highspeed internet too.
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post #18 of 35 Old 05-07-2014, 05:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Mark, any good reason to upgrade from Vegas Pro 12 to 13 ? Thanks.

I have not found any so far.
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post #19 of 35 Old 05-07-2014, 05:52 AM
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The salesman said it would connect to highspeed internet too.

Seriously, there was suppose to be a 'booster' system in the S5 whereby there would be a synergistic effect between wifi and 4G LTE that would result in even faster download/upload speeds. For some reason, the U.S. carriers chose not to enable that feature.
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Seriously, there was suppose to be a 'booster' system in the S5 whereby there would be a synergistic effect between wifi and 4G LTE that would result in even faster download/upload speeds. For some reason, the U.S. carriers chose not to enable that feature.
I have two internet connections. One place has Comcast with an extra cost "speed boost" option. I love it. Unfortunately the cord is too short for road trips and mine can last for months. I put Comcast on "suspension" and "activate" an aging Verizion MiFi Hotspot for where the frequently provided WiFi connections are equally frequent at being crappy.

I have an aversion to anything that sucks up money on a regular, subscription basis. Until I stopped it cold, DirecTV got a cumulative $14,000. I could have some of Joe's cools stuff with that kind of money!

That said, I'm about to cave in and step up to a smartphone for texting my granddaughters and getting a mobile 4G connection for our lengthy road trips. But, having bad mouthed silly smartphones for so many years, I will have to "eat some crow" and it has never been tasty.

An Apple eating friend and iPhone junky (retired from the cell phone industry) told me yesterday that apples are sweet and I really should wait for the iPhone 6.
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post #21 of 35 Old 05-07-2014, 06:36 AM
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Been there, done that with Iphones. Had 3 of them and they essentially never change, including their ridiculously small screens for this era. I switched over to Android and have never looked back. They do more, have far nicer screens and are more customizable.

Particularly now with 4K, the only place to go is Android. The IPhone still takes some nice pictures, but even there they lag Samsung when you see these A/B tests that are often conducted.

What will the IPhone 6 have? Who knows, but each year the rumors abound and upon release, the phone remains almost unchanged. That's one of the reasons they're losing some world-wide market share to Samsung.
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My wife insisted on getting a new iPhone and I suggested to get an S5. Her brand new iPhone from a store crashed in the first day.  She took it back to Sprint and got the S4.  Her second Galaxy and she prefers it over the fruit company.  I had the original Galaxy, S3 and S5 coming soon.

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Nick, I still get my wife to switch away from the fruit. Her and my son are hooked on them. I gave up awhile ago.
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post #24 of 35 Old 05-13-2014, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Another 4K video, with action and motion:

Accordion playing, jugglers, a carousel, bowling, chess, a foot-model shoot, a jazz band, diners.




Choose 2160 to see the video at its best (and give time to get there).
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post #25 of 35 Old 05-13-2014, 12:07 PM
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Sorry, Mark. Bicycles' pumping is an instant turn off. Did not watch further. CMOS output really cannot be stabilized.
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post #26 of 35 Old 05-13-2014, 01:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

Sorry, Mark. Bicycles' pumping is an instant turn off. Did not watch further. CMOS output really cannot be stabilized.

That first clip was in fact the worst (I think it was very windy and there was too much to correct). The subsequent clips are much better. I thought of taking the first clip out, but we are here to learn. This abrupt viewing - and reporting - behavior is not conducive to that.

The reaction of other viewers (who are critical about shakes) is that the video as a whole is more viewable due to stabilization than the first.
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I agree. First off we're taking what is essentially a cellphone and turning it in to a credible 4K shooter. No, this will not replace an AX100, GH4 or any dedicated 4K camera, but in a pinch or as a 'stealthcam'...c'mon Ungermann.

I'll take some software stabilization artifacts over the shaky video every time.
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post #28 of 35 Old 05-13-2014, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I agree. First off we're taking what is essentially a cellphone and turning it in to a credible 4K shooter. No, this will not replace an AX100, GH4 or any dedicated 4K camera, but in a pinch or as a 'stealthcam'...c'mon Ungermann.

I'll take some software stabilization artifacts over the shaky video every time.

If the post-stabilized video is wobbly, where is the 4K benefit?
The YouTube player has a 4K option but most people don't have 4K monitors.

It would be more effective to carry a small HD camera that already has stabilization.
For example, the Canon ELPH is tiny and has IS for video. The end result, watching in HD, would be better.
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post #29 of 35 Old 05-13-2014, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
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Sorry, Mark. Bicycles' pumping is an instant turn off. Did not watch further. CMOS output really cannot be stabilized.
That first clip was in fact the worst (I think it was very windy and there was too much to correct). The subsequent clips are much better. I thought of taking the first clip out, but we are here to learn. This abrupt viewing - and reporting - behavior is not conducive to that.
I think it is. The takeaway is not to use slow-scanning CMOS-based cams unless there is no other choice, because existing software cannot fix the jello.
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post #30 of 35 Old 05-13-2014, 08:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by xfws View Post

If the post-stabilized video is wobbly, where is the 4K benefit?
The YouTube player has a 4K option but most people don't have 4K monitors.

It would be more effective to carry a small HD camera that already has stabilization.
For example, the Canon ELPH is tiny and has IS for video. The end result, watching in HD, would be better.

This is the answer that has been given over and over to the question about the benefit of 4K when you do not view at 4k: 4K-origin video looks better (in terms of resolution and color) on any viewing device - a 1080 TV, say - than any 1080 video. Why? because no 1080 (HD) cameras or camcorders actually resolve anywhere close to actual 1080. In addition, you can edit in 4K and still get a better-looking 1080 video than one from any 1080 camera that has not been re-compressed at all. And, stabilizing in post is one of the actions you can perform.

4K downrezzed on YOUR viewing device looks better than any 1080 video (in terms of resolution and color). And, oh boy, resolution is one the first things people notice.

Now, if stabilization is your only criterion (it's called lexicographic preferences) then by all means shoot with a camera that essentially has less than 720p resolution actually but good stabilization.

Anyway, the point of the videos is to experiment with stabilization in post. It is perfectly valid to not like the result. It is not valid to conclude there is no point to shooting in 4K unless you view at 4K.
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