Sony RX100 III shoots 4K - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 47 Old 06-20-2014, 03:27 PM
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My pre-order apparently didn't make the cut for the first batch, so hopefully it will arrive before my trip in July. If not, I will cancel and get something else.


Having 4K would be nice, but it isn't a deal breaker for me. Mostly the camera will be used for stills and it should be good for that, with decent video thrown in. I think with point and shoot cameras, at least with the early generation versions, 4K is not going to be very effective due to thermal envelope, stabilization and data transfer rate issues. The limitations of the form factor will be the biggest impediment in the immediate future IMO, I think for 4K you would be better off with a somewhat larger camera where those sorts of issues are more manageable.
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post #32 of 47 Old 06-22-2014, 10:33 AM
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If yours hasn't arrived by then & you still want one, feel free to ping me.

I'll try to upload some photos & a video tonight. Coming off sleep depravation & have some things to catch up on in the mean time.
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post #33 of 47 Old 06-22-2014, 06:28 PM
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post #34 of 47 Old 06-22-2014, 09:57 PM
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I'm not seeing a big video improvement vs the RX100M2. What's your impression?
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post #35 of 47 Old 06-23-2014, 01:51 PM
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Looks like the camera has improved DR, would be nice to see some indoor shots.
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post #36 of 47 Old 06-24-2014, 12:47 PM
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Thread rolled back to before the bickering and off-topic posts began. Some legit posts may have been lost in the rollback. For that, I apologize.

Keep posts about the topic and not each other. Further off-topic posting will result in the loss of posting privileges in this thread.

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.
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post #37 of 47 Old 06-26-2014, 08:41 PM
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Well, my new RX100M3 arrived at the Sony Store today, so I picked it up after work. The battery is charging and so we shall see shortly. Fun
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post #38 of 47 Old 06-27-2014, 07:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tugela View Post
Well, my new RX100M3 arrived at the Sony Store today, so I picked it up after work. The battery is charging and so we shall see shortly. Fun
I am watching. I've enjoyed, and continued to enjoy, my first version.

Bill
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post #39 of 47 Old 07-01-2014, 01:28 PM
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Man the video from this little thing looks good. Cool to be able to use a small glidecam like those for a smartphone as well, it looks like he is using something bigger but my guess a small mini glidecam would be enough.

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post #40 of 47 Old 07-02-2014, 12:19 AM
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Another one:


But man, no shoe and no audio in. I hope the RX10 Mk2 will have all the controls + XAVC.

And this one could easily be stopped down like one stop, and still would look good and even more natural:


Last edited by Ungermann; 07-02-2014 at 12:24 AM.
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post #41 of 47 Old 07-02-2014, 01:27 AM
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Agree, not having atleast just a cold shoe is bad. But just a small flat bracket from the tripod mount to the side with a zoom h1 would do the trick.
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post #42 of 47 Old 07-03-2014, 05:17 AM
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Agreed, video looks better than my HG20 I had. Photo were clear, however some were at too high of an ISO I believe, noise was prominent. Again, this wall taken on an island with desert terrain. My underwater housing did not fit, so not much video was taken

Not many photos demonstrating capability since it was sunny & bright:
http://1drv.ms/1oiVxl1
http://1drv.ms/1oiVC8o
http://1drv.ms/1oiVXb9

*feel free to go on a tirade re: the subject of the photos

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post #43 of 47 Old 07-13-2014, 11:04 PM
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Ok, I have had a week or two testing and getting used to the camera.


My background is mostly with Canon gear, so it took a bit of getting used to. My original camera from way back when was a Minolta XG-9 (which, as you no doubt know, was one of the first semi-electronic film SLRs). When digital cam along I bought Toshiba PDR-M70, which shot 3MP stills and "video", which comprised of short 320 x 240 sequences that looked terrible. Although the camera was digital it was not satisfactory and not too long after I bought a Rebel XT (which was one of the last silver models I think). That was a big improvement in image quality. Sometime after that my parents came out to visit, and since my Dad was in poor health at the time and was not going to last much longer, I wanted some video of him, and bought a Canon DC-40. That shot SD video, which was miles better than the Toshiba, but it was still SD. While it looked better than the average TV show, watching footage on computer screens made the failings painfully evident, so it was not a very satisfactory purchase. Maybe a year after that the Canon Vixia HF S10 came out, and I jumped on that bandwagon. The S10 was streets ahead, although it did still have noticeable issues when viewing on computer screens (on TV screens the footage looked good). Shortly after that the XT was replaced by a T3i, which was a big step up in image quality. The T3i can shoot video, which in theory should have rivaled the S10, but in practice it was a bear to use and unless you had everything set up right the video it produced was pretty nasty. So basically useless as a camcorder.


Moving up to more modern times, when the Vixia G30 came out I bought one (the week it was released, although I didn't know it at the time). The improvement in quality over the S10 was noticeable, although not massively so. It had a more useful lens and provided much greater control over the shooting experience. It could shoot in native 60p and allowed significantly higher bit rates, together with more refined encoding than the S10. I really like shooting with it, and the footage looks good, except for two "issues". Firstly, I was expecting the resolution to be significantly better than the S10 and approach 1080 lines, but actually it was not a whole lot better, albeit with much reduced levels of artifacts. Secondly, the camera still exhibited the purple fringing commonly seen in small sensor cameras, which is due to light scattering at the sensor level. Purple fringing and blooming is much less of a problem with larger sensors.


When I bought the RX100M3, the purpose was to get a small camera for a vacation trip to see my Mom in Africa. I did not want to lug any of my other cameras around, and it is not a good idea to do that there anyway due to the danger of attracting robbers. Since she is getting on in years, and this could be the last time I see her, I wanted to ensure that any images I captured of the trip were of the highest quality possible. That was the reason I selected the Sony. I had hoped that it would have 4K video, but it doesn't and I needed the camera now, so, oh well. My tentative plan is to get the new Canon 7D2 when it comes out, and if it can shoot with decent video functions that would help make the buying decision easier. If it has 4K then it will be a certain purchase.


Getting on to the RX100 and my impressions. At first I was less than happy since getting anything decent from it was difficult. Too set in my ways from using the Canons I guess. Part of the problem is that although it shoots 20 MP stills, the actual resolution of the image is less than what my T3i does (although this is likely due to the lens options respectively). It also has more noise in the images, but again this is probably due to the smaller sensor and lower light collecting capabilities. These things were quite obvious when looking at the images on my computer screen at 100% resolution. In the end I decided to ignore the computer for the most part (other than adjustment) and just use my Samsung Tab10.1 Pro (which has a 2560 x 1600 screen, which, btw, is awesome!! ) as a viewer. The minor issues at pixel levels are not visible at that resolution, so that was good. The RX100 produces images that have a National Geographic look about them, which I find pleasing. One of the biggest issues with the camera in my opinion, using the T3i as a reference point, is that the focus is not as precise as I might like. To get precise focussing you need to use manual focussing, but here again the peaking function is not particularly useful. It often shows something as in being in focus that is not. Fortunately you can zoom in on the image quite a bit and get focus by eye. The T3i doesn't have peaking (although you can get it with magic lantern), but then it doesn't need it because the autofocus is accurate.


In general though after a few weeks I have become much more comfortable with the operation of the camera, and my current view is that it is excellent for its niche.


When I first started shooting video with it I was appalled by the quality. It reminded me a lot of the junk the T3i produced, in that it seemed as though you would need the camera set up just right. But after getting used to the operation of the camera, and becoming more aware of its limitations, my view on that has changed. A big issue again is focussing. Manual focus is pretty much hit and miss because the peaking is hopeless. So far nothing I have done in adjusting it seems to help much. There is a focus zoom buried in the menus, and I reassigned one of the control buttons to do that more easily. Another button reassigned for video was the tracking function, but in video the RX100 tracking is pretty crude, so I am in two minds as to how useful it will be. Auto focussing seems to be ok, but it has problems when there are big differences in planes of focus, such as flowers set against a background. It will usually focus on the background rather than what you want in that situation. Tracking does not help much since the area the camera chooses to track is quite large. The most practical solution to these problems was to stop down the aperture so the depth of field was increased. After shooting with the camera for a while most of the video produced was ok, and my conclusion was that the effective resolution was a lot better than the G30. The camera does not have the zoom range of the G30 of course, which is a little irritating because I am used to having it. But on the other hand there was very little evidence of the purple blooming that was so depressing with the G30. I would love to have the tracking and focussing abilities of the G30 though.


One big plus is that the low light capability is much better than the G30 (due to sensor size I expect). Yesterday I went down to the market at Granville Island and shot indoors there. It is a converted warehouse with some natural light coming in from the roof, but mostly it is lit by incandescent lights hanging from the ceiling. When I shoot there with my G30 the footage is essentially useless since there is too much noise. Not so with the RX100M3, which shows no obvious noise at ambient light levels. A big plus.


Overall my current opinion of the video function is a big thumbs up. It outperforms my G30 in just about every way, other than the lens. And all that can fit in my pocket!! Awesome!!


One final thing, THE very first thing you notice about the camera is that it is an absolute engineering marvel. Such a tiny package that has a lens that seems impossibly large to fit, with a discrete digital viewfinder (much better than the one in the G30 as well) and a flash unit as well. I think that this is the ultimate travel camera for those who can afford it.
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post #44 of 47 Old 07-14-2014, 08:44 AM
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Tugela, it is a long writeup, altough it would benefit from more "meat" in it. What exactly was wrong about the DC40 and the S10? Interlacing?

Color fringing can be caused not only by optics but by color subsampling, producing totally out of whack colors between two vastly different colors.

The G10/20/30 have lower-res sensor than the S10/20/30 which is a known fact. Canon went on a technological arch starting from a 1/3-inch 2MP sensor in 2007 up to 3.2 MP in 2008 then up to 8MP sensor in the S models, then back to 2MP sensor in the XA and G models because they figured they could get HD resolution and better sensitivity from a lower density chip. Now they have to climb the resolution arch again for 4K.
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post #45 of 47 Old 07-14-2014, 10:59 AM
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The DC10 shoots in SD. Nuff said. It is low resolution and has a lot of compression artifacts which are painfully obvious on any sort of modern display. It was a big disappointment for me.


The main problem with the S10 is that it shoots natively in interlaced video. While this is not an issue on a TV set (which typically can deal properly with those sorts of inputs), it is a problem for viewing on a monitor. Images reconstituted as progressive frames are actually two images superimposed. Not a problem for static scenes, but any sort of rapid motion causes stutter on a monitor as a result. Footage recorded natively as progressive does not have this problem, so clips from my G30 and T3i would be smooth on a monitor.


The other problem with the S10 is that it does not have a full manual mode, there is only automatic and semiautomatic. That limits how you can shoot. I prefer having full manual control over parameters affecting exposure.


The S10 also appears to use a more primitive encoding algorithm than the G30 as well. A freeze-frame from the S10 typically looks like an impressionist painting, while one from the G30 looks like a photo. The image generated by the G30 is overall a more refined one than that produced by the S10. When I first got my G30 I shot a series of clips of essentially the same thing using the G30, the S10 and the T3i. Both the G30 and S10 were a lot better than the T3i, with the G30 somewhat better than the S10, but not massively so.


The S10 has more pronounced lens chromatic aberration than the G30. The purple blooming seen in parts of the image at high contrast boundaries is caused by light scattering on the sensor surface. By its nature it is a phenomena that will be more pronounced with small sensors, so you see it with both the S10 and G30, but not the T3i. The RX100 has almost none (although there is a bit, but it has much smaller dimensions than the two Canon camcorders).


The S10 has a higher resolution sensor (and so does the DC10, relative to its video resolution), but that does not translate into better overall resolution. The G30 has a noticeably improved image in that regard, but it is still quite a bit lower than the nominal 1080 lines you should get for HD. Most likely they are skipping lines in the S10 and DC10 in the sensor read.


The RX100M3 video appears to satisfy most of my criteria in terms of what I expect from HD. The only two things I miss from the G30 are the massive zoom range that camcorder has, and the robust focussing options (excellent tracking and its peaking actually works accurately all the time). In the context of a pocket sized travel camera the RX100M3 more than makes up for those shortcomings however.
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post #46 of 47 Old 07-14-2014, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
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The main problem with the S10 is that it shoots natively in interlaced video. While this is not an issue on a TV set (which typically can deal properly with those sorts of inputs), it is a problem for viewing on a monitor. Images reconstituted as progressive frames are actually two images superimposed. Not a problem for static scenes, but any sort of rapid motion causes stutter on a monitor as a result.
Nope, interlaced video deinterlaced correctly does not have combing or ghosting. At the very simplest, each field is restored to a full frame, so you get 60p out of 30i (or 50p out of 25i). Just use a player that can deinterlace correctly like Flash Player, or use a codec that can deinterlace like CoreAVC.
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The other problem with the S10 is that it does not have a full manual mode, there is only automatic and semiautomatic. That limits how you can shoot. I prefer having full manual control over parameters affecting exposure.
Shutter priority is pretty much a manual mode: set shutter speed directly, then adjust aperture via Exposure (+/-) function.
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The S10 also appears to use a more primitive encoding algorithm than the G30 as well. A freeze-frame from the S10 typically looks like an impressionist painting, while one from the G30 looks like a photo.
Do you mean interlaced combing?
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The RX100M3 video appears to satisfy most of my criteria in terms of what I expect from HD. The only two things I miss from the G30 are the massive zoom range that camcorder has, and the robust focussing options (excellent tracking and its peaking actually works accurately all the time). In the context of a pocket sized travel camera the RX100M3 more than makes up for those shortcomings however.
So, basically 50 Mbit/s vs 24 Mbit/s + HFR progressive + 1-inch sensor, but both manual and auto focus are so-so. Ok, got it ;-)
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post #47 of 47 Old 07-15-2014, 02:17 AM
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This is an example of the comparison between the G30 and RX100 in low light at the Granville Island market. The G30 clips were recorded in 2013, the RX100 a few days ago, but the first pair are of the same vendor, albeit with different gain. The actual light levels on the two sets of shots are about the same. The third clip was from G30 at a different spot, but with somewhat better light. I guess it is hard to see on YouTube, but on the native clips the G30 sequences are very noisy, whereas the RX100 is clean.


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