Sony RX100 III shoots 4K - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 47 Old 05-16-2014, 04:48 AM - Thread Starter
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On edit: I can't change the title, but it includes a gross error. As pointed out below, the camera does not shoot 4K.


Stabilized 4K in your shirt pocket!

Condensed from the B&H product announcement: "The new RX100 III offers the ability to work in the high-quality XAVC S format with 50Mbps recording. Clean HDMI output also enables uncompressed 60p, 60i, or 24p movie recording to an optional external recorder. "

I wonder if it is a Sony optional external recorder.

Bill
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post #2 of 47 Old 05-16-2014, 05:15 AM
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Hold on there Bill, not exactly. The RXIII cannot record 4K VIDEO either internally or externally.

The best it can do is output a 4K STILL image externally via HDMI. That's a big difference.

However for those that don't care about 4K, the RXIII will offer full sensor readout, just like the RX10. That will virtually eliminate the artifacts in prior iterations. That, coupled with the XAVC-S codec and higher bitrate, should also contribute to better 1080p video.

But sadly, no 4K video. That will probably come on the RXIV. wink.gif
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post #3 of 47 Old 05-16-2014, 04:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Oops. Another lesson learned. I read "XAVC S" and thought that meant "4K". It does not.

Re-reading the specs it says, "XAVC S: 1920 x 1080; 60p, 30p, 24p (50Mbps), 1280 x 720; 120p (50Mbps)"

Thank you for the lesson!
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post #4 of 47 Old 05-16-2014, 09:10 PM
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I keep wondering if Samsung may soon have an entry into the prosumer 4K compact system camera market? I love the colors and crispness in this Samsung Galaxy Note 2 Smartphone shot (not mine) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiE4eyyRK_M One does not see straight out-of-the camera colors like that from the AX100 or GH4, so you have to work hard in post to try and get close to those colors. PITA.
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post #5 of 47 Old 05-16-2014, 09:33 PM
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^ As has been pointed out to you many times, by different posters, you prefer a rather unique look to colors. Your posted examples and preferences are not necessarily indicative of natural colors. You prefer hyped colors and Samsung phones are known for that.

Pleasing and accurate can be two different things.
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post #6 of 47 Old 05-17-2014, 04:36 PM
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That is closer to what I might want to buy. 1080p at 24, 30 and 60p - check. 50 Mbps for cleaner artifact-free image - check. EVF - check. Image stabilization - check. Tilting screen - check. Now the only element missing is a focus ring, or wheel or whatever thingy that come up with.
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post #7 of 47 Old 05-17-2014, 06:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

..... Now the only element missing is a focus ring, or wheel or whatever thingy that come up with.

My RX100 I has a multipurpose lens ring that can be set for a few things, including manual focus. I'm pretty sure the III has it too.

Bill
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post #8 of 47 Old 05-18-2014, 07:08 AM
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Looks like another hit by Sony !
Quote:
I actually find the RX100 MK III to be a much more flexible portable filmmaking device than the celebrated Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera.

Honestly, I can’t think of any other pocket-sized camera that can slightly give the latest RX100 a run for it’s money. This sounds like a paid endorsement, but in my opinion, the RX100 MK III is the best compact camera ever produced.
http://www.thecamerastore.com/blog/sony-rx100-mk-iii-first-impressions.aspx

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post #9 of 47 Old 05-19-2014, 11:13 AM
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Looks like a winner. Is this the same sensor that's on the AX100? Seems to be a similar spec.

 

This segment of the market is pretty exciting right now. For the cost of a decent m4/3 lens you can get an entire camera. I can't wait until the 4k 60fps version comes out in a few years.

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post #10 of 47 Old 05-19-2014, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsprague View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

..... Now the only element missing is a focus ring, or wheel or whatever thingy that come up with.
My RX100 I has a multipurpose lens ring that can be set for a few things, including manual focus. I'm pretty sure the III has it too.
Even better. Seems like I found my dream go-to camera.
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post #11 of 47 Old 05-21-2014, 06:06 AM
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Nice. If this is released on June 19/20 I'll pick one up for my Aruba trip on the 25th!

-preordered with overnight shipping..hopefully I get the 1st shipment or I'll have to cancel the order & go with 100M2 or LX7; I'll get secure an underwater housing between now & then too
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post #12 of 47 Old 05-25-2014, 01:57 AM
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I need a travel camera in July, so I've put a pre-order in for this one. I had a look at a one down at the Sony Store today (they have a pre-release camera to show customers who ask). It is quite small and pocketable, it should fit the bill just fine.
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post #13 of 47 Old 05-25-2014, 07:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tugela View Post

I need a travel camera in July, so I've put a pre-order in for this one. I had a look at a one down at the Sony Store today (they have a pre-release camera to show customers who ask). It is quite small and pocketable, it should fit the bill just fine.
My RX100 (first version) has been my most productive camera. I like the video quality and the RAW photo capability is extraordinary.

If I want to get serious about a rock steady clip, I need some sort of handle. My favorite is a cheap, light carbon fiber monopod. I also use a micro tripod that looks almost like a toy. The stabilization is good, so it may be that my hands are not as steady as they should be.

On my last trip I got some candid photo street shots by holding the camera upside down in my right hand held low. With it upside down, one of my fingers rests comfortably on the shutter button. It took a little practice, but I got where I could get it close to level and fix it in post.

After some trial and error I found that I liked carrying it in a belt pouch that I knew would be cleaner than my pocket. I have a matching one that I carry a lens brush, a couple filters and the toy tripod. The filters attach magnetically. My wife bought me some ExOfficio travel shirts with zippered pockets that I will also use for the camera.

I have two friends, both with big Nikons. My travel photography is far more productive than theirs because whenever they point their cameras everybody hides or turns away.
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post #14 of 47 Old 06-02-2014, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Some interesting (to me) opinions and samples were posted today at dpreview: http://www.dpreview.com/previews/sony-cybershot-dsc-rx100-m3/6
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post #15 of 47 Old 06-02-2014, 07:23 PM
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Nearly identical performance to the RX10, according to the review. This makes sense as they both read the entire sensor.

Sony was wise continuing the successful approach of the RX10, AX100 and CX900 in the new RX100 III. Why mess with success?
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post #16 of 47 Old 06-02-2014, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Nearly identical performance to the RX10, according to the review. This makes sense as they both read the entire sensor.

Sony was wise continuing the successful approach of the RX10, AX100 and CX900 in the new RX100 III. Why mess with success?

You would think that were true, but if you read the comments an experienced videographer checked the DPReview charts and found that the Rx100III resolved less resolution in 1080 video in fact than the RX10. There is a problem (which may be at DPReview).
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post #17 of 47 Old 06-02-2014, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Nearly identical performance to the RX10, according to the review. This makes sense as they both read the entire sensor.

Sony was wise continuing the successful approach of the RX10, AX100 and CX900 in the new RX100 III. Why mess with success?

You would think that were true, but if you read the comments an experienced videographer checked the DPReview charts and found that the Rx100III resolved less resolution in fact than the RX10. There is a problem (which may be at DPReview).
Resolution of a still photo or of a PORTION of a moving frame is one thing, but cleanliness in terms of freedom of artefacts is another thing. 50 Mbit/s is more than 28 Mbit/s whatever you slice it. I will take a slight drop in resolution for an artefact-free image.

IMO, two major features the RX100 lacks compared to the RX10 is mic input and wider zoom range. I can leave with the lens, but I really wish the RX100 had mic input.
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post #18 of 47 Old 06-03-2014, 02:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

You would think that were true, but if you read the comments an experienced videographer checked the DPReview charts and found that the Rx100III resolved less resolution in 1080 video in fact than the RX10. There is a problem (which may be at DPReview).

I read what he was going on about, but it is a small difference. Most likely the camera was slightly out of focus. There is a series of videos made by an ex-pat blogger in Japan (where the camera has apparently already been released) who was complaining about the focus and speed of autofocus, among other things (such as menu set-ups etc) when he was doing selfies and waving the camera around blogger style. So, getting critical focus might be a bit hit and miss in terms of maximising resolution.

There is no reason for the RX100 M3 to be any different from the RX10, other than scenes which benefit from high bit rates, since the two are essentially the same camera, just in different boxes and with different lenses.

In any event, I think a lot of these criticisms are unreasonable, after all it is just a tiny pocket camera and you should not be expecting it to be on a par with much bigger systems.
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post #19 of 47 Old 06-03-2014, 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Tugela View Post


There is no reason for the RX100 M3 to be any different from the RX10, other than scenes which benefit from high bit rates, since the two are essentially the same camera, just in different boxes and with different lenses.

In any event, I think a lot of these criticisms are unreasonable, after all it is just a tiny pocket camera and you should not be expecting it to be on a par with much bigger systems.

I'd agree with that. My comments were based on the findings of DP and the logic behind it. Assuming the electronics are essentially the same, the only significant difference in the image quality chain should be the lens. At HD resolutions, in what is essentially a high resolution still camera, even the lens shouldn't really impact HD resolution since that's far less demanding on the lens than shooting high rez stills.

I didn't read the comments Mark referenced regarding the guy who analyzed the test charts, but who knows what caused any differences he observed? Frankly, after reading so many inane comments following Sony's first release of the AX100 sample video, I'm less inclined to delve into reader's comments.

However even if he's right, I'd still bet that PQ is going to be roughly the same and slight differences in resolution will go either unnoticed by the target audience (most probably have no reference point anyway) or the differences will be considered a worthwhile trade off for the diminutive size.

As for the lack of mike inputs on such a tiny camera, c'mon, most buyers of this camera will probably care less. Most external mikes will be 5x the size of the camera itself. The idea of the camera is size, so what's the point of encumbering it with external accessories? You might as well get an RX10 at that point with its much better telephoto reach.

My biggest issue with these tiny cameras is their very limited tele reach.
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post #20 of 47 Old 06-03-2014, 06:59 AM - Thread Starter
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The only reason for having a RX100 is the size. Because it is "pocket sized" it is easy to carry. So far, there are no others that small with equal performance. One of my favorite accessories is the collection of Ex-officio travel shirts provided by my DW. They have zippered pockets!

Mine has been the most productive camera I've ever owned, going back to my Kodak Brownie! There are two reasons for that. The PQ for both photos and videos is not perfect, but certainly acceptable. The primary reason is that it is so easy to have with you wherever you might want to be shooting.

Besides the limited tele, there are a lot more limitations that I overlook because it is so good for travel photograpy and videography.
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post #21 of 47 Old 06-03-2014, 12:00 PM
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I agree with that. I have a T3i which I use for stills (probably to be replaced with the 7D2 when it comes out towards the end of the year) and a G30 for video. I would have preferred to have a 4K video camera, but that is what I have and the budget doesn't allow for an upgrade there in the immediate future. In any case, I think it might be best for 4K to mature a little and for more options to become available.

Both cameras are relatively large however, and that is a problem when it comes to travel where an unobtrusive camera is best. Especially since my trip is to a place where having an expensive camera slung around your neck is an open invitation to get robbed. Something I can slip in my pocket and not particularly be noticed when shooting is best. The RX100 seems to fit that description well, and it's capabilities mean that it should produce images up to the standards I expect. In fact, from native sample video I've seen, it outperforms my G30 (other than zoom of course). So I think I will be happy with it.

The guy on the DP forum who was downing on the camera was claiming the resolution is ~950 lines. That seems pretty good to me even if it is the case, and probably better than just about everything else on the market. Even with downscaling, you will still have to make approximations and extrapolations that would result in less than 1080 lines of resolution IMO (unless your source was an exact multiple of 1080). So no camera can really resolve 1080 lines accurately, other than a black and white 1080p imager.
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post #22 of 47 Old 06-03-2014, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tugela View Post

The guy on the DP forum who was downing on the camera was claiming the resolution is ~950 lines. That seems pretty good to me even if it is the case, and probably better than just about everything else on the market.
Remember HDV camcorders? Anything above 600 lines was considered very good. The AG-HMC150 is about 650 lines. It was HD, people! Well, not for BBC. But Travel Channel and PBS did run HDV-based shows with great success.

The 1080p60 Panasonics from 2010 onwards are ~1000 lines and this is astonishingly good. So 950 or 1000 - same thing to me compared to 600.

Mic input is for those cases when I do not need a spy camera, but want to record sound from a mic three meters away or from a club's mixing board. Sure, can live without mic input by using H1 and synching in post.
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post #23 of 47 Old 06-03-2014, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

Remember HDV camcorders? Anything above 600 lines was considered very good. The AG-HMC150 is about 650 lines. It was HD, people! Well, not for BBC. But Travel Channel and PBS did run HDV-based shows with great success.

The 1080p60 Panasonics from 2010 onwards are ~1000 lines and this is astonishingly good. So 950 or 1000 - same thing to me compared to 600.

Mic input is for those cases when I do not need a spy camera, but want to record sound from a mic three meters away or from a club's mixing board. Sure, can live without mic input by using H1 and synching in post.

Remember HD camcorders? Anything above 900 lines was considered very good. The Sony RX10 and the Panasonic 900-line camcorders actually achieved 1000 lines. All the rest were good if they got to 750 lines. It was HD, people! Well, not for movie theaters, maybe for HDTV.

Those were the good old days. Now we have cameras, of course, that get almost 4X the resolution of HD. But it is nice that people then were happy with a mere 1000 lines. They didn't know what they were missing. But now they know better, of course.wink.gif
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post #24 of 47 Old 06-04-2014, 01:35 AM
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Now that I've watched those properly shot 4K footage, be it from the Sony Z100, AX1, AX100, Pana GH4 down to most of the 4K cellphones. I have to admit it's hard to go back to HD at whatever level of equipment. When I saw the flaws, I just tried to figure out how to alleviate them, not about retreating to HD. It's that good.
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post #25 of 47 Old 06-04-2014, 06:06 AM
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Resolution of a still photo or of a PORTION of a moving frame is one thing, but cleanliness in terms of freedom of artefacts is another thing. 50 Mbit/s is more than 28 Mbit/s whatever you slice it. I will take a slight drop in resolution for an artefact-free image.

IMO, two major features the RX100 lacks compared to the RX10 is mic input and wider zoom range. I can leave with the lens, but I really wish the RX100 had mic input.

If I receive the RX100 in time I will sell it after my trip for this exact reason, no mic input (I used my old camera for record video/audio of my flights). Hot shoe or mic input should be included; I know it has the viewfinder but still..
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post #26 of 47 Old 06-04-2014, 09:29 AM
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^ Then why did you buy it?
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post #27 of 47 Old 06-04-2014, 09:37 AM - Thread Starter
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..... I will sell it after my trip..

Where do people sell new cameras without loosing a lot of money. If I knew how to do that, I could develop an entire new pastime of playing with cool cameras and lenses.
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post #28 of 47 Old 06-04-2014, 01:46 PM
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Seems like a good cam & compact size, which is ideal so I can get inconspicuous photos of everyone (large wedding party) & some, hopefully, great underwater footage.
Haven't thought the reselling part through. biggrin.gif

A GH4 would be tempting if it was more compact.
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post #29 of 47 Old 06-04-2014, 02:47 PM
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I don't think that lack of a mic input is a big deal. After all, who sticks an external microphone on a pocket camera? It sort of defeats the whole purpose of a camera that size.

If you were going to use an external microphone you would probably be shooting with a conventional video camera, not a pocket compact.
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post #30 of 47 Old 06-19-2014, 06:16 PM
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Amazon said my shipped today & will arrive Friday; wish the <$1000 4k units where out already, but oh well. Might have time to play with the white balance in a pool before hitting the ocean
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