I's coming: the Panasonic LX 8, a 4K video pocket camera that is not junk - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 37 Old 06-08-2014, 08:32 AM - Thread Starter
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A high-quality rumor: http://www.43rumors.com/ft4-panasonic-lx8-will-have-shoot-4k-video-and-be-priced-at-900/#disqus_thread

Announcement in July, so do not expect to get this camera any time soon.

Recall, that the LX7 shot excellent, manual control HD video, was small, and had an f1.4 lens and a relatively big sensor for small camera. The LX8 will have a bigger sensor.

This is Panasonic's competitor to the Sony RX100 iii, which will not shoot 4K video.
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post #2 of 37 Old 06-08-2014, 10:19 AM
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"...that is not junk"

A couple years back after seeing the quality of the videos, I considered getting an LX7 on sale.

I stopped by B&H to check it out and couldn't get past the really cheap build quality.
That back lever seemed like it could easily snap off. The buttons and menu navigation irked me.

If they improved on that aspect, that would be great.
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post #3 of 37 Old 06-08-2014, 10:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xfws View Post

"...that is not junk"

A couple years back after seeing the quality of the videos, I considered getting an LX7 on sale.

I stopped by B&H to check it out and couldn't get past the really cheap build quality.
That back lever seemed like it could easily snap off. The buttons and menu navigation irked me.

If they improved on that aspect, that would be great.

I shot video all over the world for a over a year with the LX7. Nothing snapped off. Menu design is not build quality. Was the f1.4 Leica lens "junk"? I really do not think you can judge a camera by playing with it in the store. Indeed, that is the value of this forum, where you get to see the videos and hear the experience from real users.
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post #4 of 37 Old 06-08-2014, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

I shot video all over the world for a over a year with the LX7. Nothing snapped off. Menu design is not build quality. Was the f1.4 Leica lens "junk"? I really do not think you can judge a camera by playing with it in the store. Indeed, that is the value of this forum, where you get to see the videos and hear the experience from real users.

I liked the actual video quality the LX7 produced. I recall you had some impressive, noise-free video shot in Grand Central and in a train car.

Something like the Canon EOS M or Sony HX9V just feels like solidly built devices. The build and menu layout of the LX7 really did affect my decision. I ending up buying an EOS M after playing with it in the store, as it impressed me then and there...although I researched online, as well.

The details of the LX8 does sound interesting, though.
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post #5 of 37 Old 06-08-2014, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by xfws View Post

I liked the actual video quality the LX7 produced. I recall you had some impressive, noise-free video shot in Grand Central and in a train car.

Something like the Canon EOS M or Sony HX9V just feels like solidly built devices. The build and menu layout of the LX7 really did affect my decision. I ending up buying an EOS M after playing with it in the store, as it impressed me then and there...although I researched online, as well.

The details of the LX8 does sound interesting, though.

The EOS M has amazing build quality, I agree. Btw, the zoom lens jammed on my first Sony Hx9v and I had to return it; you never know.
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post #6 of 37 Old 06-08-2014, 11:34 AM
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My HX9V is dying. The screen on the back started showing spots inside the laminate. A corner is peeling back. Other than that, it still shoots. It's sad to see it suffer.
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post #7 of 37 Old 06-08-2014, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

The EOS M has amazing build quality, I agree. Btw, the zoom lens jammed on my first Sony Hx9v and I had to return it; you never know.

The Father's Day Special at B&H has the EOS M, a lens and a flash for $349!

http://view.bhphotovideo.com/v/FL0JK5/61AUC/OLYU050/VHH6P1/MAILACTION=1?cm_mmc=EML-_-Promotion-FathersDay-_-140608-_-Header_Retail_WebVersion
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post #8 of 37 Old 06-10-2014, 08:09 AM
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What would make this more awesome is if they remove the 30 min limit and allow you to snap pictures while recording video. Otherwise, I'll be sticking with the G6!
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post #9 of 37 Old 06-10-2014, 10:33 AM
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   Quote:

Originally Posted by bsprague View Post


The Father's Day Special at B&H has the EOS M, a lens and a flash for $349!

http://view.bhphotovideo.com/v/FL0JK5/61AUC/OLYU050/VHH6P1/MAILACTION=1?cm_mmc=EML-_-Promotion-FathersDay-_-140608-_-Header_Retail_WebVersion

The picture quality for that price is amazing. I wonder if they will release the EOS M3 here.

 

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Originally Posted by pezgod View Post

What would make this more awesome is if they remove the 30 min limit and allow you to snap pictures while recording video. Otherwise, I'll be sticking with the G6!

I'm very excited by the possibilities of this camera and 4k in general. This reminds me of watching the evolution of computer displays in the 80s and 90s, MDA, CGA, EGA, VGA.

 

I will be listing my G6 for sale and moving into 4k this summer.

 

Pez, can you get a nice framegrab from the 4k video?

 

What's the difference in taking a picture during video? If you use the larger than video megapixel format for the picture does it apply all of the picture processing functions for stills while the video sized picture is just an I-frame of the video?

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post #10 of 37 Old 06-10-2014, 11:03 AM
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Very interesting. I'll be curious to see the 4K output from it...which I assume will be 30p.
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post #11 of 37 Old 06-10-2014, 12:00 PM
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The picture quality [of the EOS M] for that price is amazing.
Nothing to write home about: 550 lw/ph or so, and only in 1080p24 mode. In addition, 720p60 is utter crap, worse than SD. Same thing with the T4i.

I am not sure why this low-res camera is mentioned in a 4K thread.
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post #12 of 37 Old 06-10-2014, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
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EOS M or 4K? Here are the frame grabs:

EOS M long (108030p):



AX100 long 4K30p):



EOS M closer:



AX100 closer:



You can also look at the originals by clicking on the pictures.

The Canon used the 18-135mm USM US lens.

See how much of a difference? and you are viewing the compressed (by Vimeo) versions on a less-than-4K screen! You do not need a 4K, 80" TV to immediately see how much better 4K is than alleged 1080 HD.
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post #13 of 37 Old 06-10-2014, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

...I am not sure why this low-res camera is mentioned in a 4K thread.
My mistake. I won't let it happen again.
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post #14 of 37 Old 06-10-2014, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

I am not sure why this low-res camera is mentioned in a 4K thread.

This is more of a 4K aspirational thread for me. :-)
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post #15 of 37 Old 06-10-2014, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

You do not need a 4K, 80" TV to immediately see how much better 4K is than alleged 1080 HD.

 

Thanks for the comparison! :) 

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post #16 of 37 Old 06-10-2014, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post

EOS M or 4K? Here are the frame grabs:

EOS M long (108030p):



AX100 long 4K30p):




See how much of a difference?

Yep, the difference is so great you can't even see the little birdie in the EOS-M shot!biggrin.gif

Seriously, it is no contest. Its pretty cool to take a frame grab from the AX100 and use it as a freeze frame in my videos since it looks so good.

The Mod Squad: New vs. Classic TV Series Opening https://vimeo.com/63119329
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post #17 of 37 Old 06-10-2014, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsprague View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

...I am not sure why this low-res camera is mentioned in a 4K thread.
My mistake. I won't let it happen again.
Hey Bill, I am sorry, I can get cranky, and my social skills are below zero. It is just that I bought the EOS M after some glowing reviews, and then I also bought the T4i hoping that it shoots better. Nope. Same sensor, same processor. I am flabbergasted why @ 45 Mbit/s the image from 720p60 looks so bad. It is worse than from the Nikon D3200 which records 22 Mbit/s. Now I am in two bodies and a $500 lens, have to sell it all to get either a G6 or GH4 or maybe the RX100Mk3.
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post #18 of 37 Old 06-10-2014, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

Hey Bill, I am sorry, I can get cranky, and my social skills are below zero. It is just that I bought the EOS M after some glowing reviews, and then I also bought the T4i hoping that it shoots better. Nope. Same sensor, same processor. I am flabbergasted why @ 45 Mbit/s the image from 720p60 looks so bad. It is worse than from the Nikon D3200 which records 22 Mbit/s. Now I am in two bodies and a $500 lens, have to sell it all to get either a G6 or GH4 or maybe the RX100Mk3.
Cranky? Not compared to some of the other discussions the last 6 months or so!

Still a little off topic, but you won't get any discouragement from me on the RX100. I have the Mk1, have a lot of fun with it and like both the photos and videos. I wanted more telephoto so I bought the biggest Panasonic M43 lens. The GH3 was too much, I don't remember why I didn't get the G6 and got the GX7 just for the long lens.

Out of the 4 AVCHD cameras I have now, it is the first one I would replace if they were all lost or stolen. There is always room for argument at the picture quality level, but when it comes to having a "good enough" camera that is unobtrusive, it is my favorite.

Back on the 4K topic. Obviously 4K video is of higher quality. My dilemma is that if I traded my GX7 in on a GH4, I would need about $1100 to $1300. I think if I want to improve my photography and videography I might get a better return somewhere else. The most appealing part of the 4K to me is the opportunities it provides for post processing as I don't see a 4K screen in my near future.

Bill
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post #19 of 37 Old 06-11-2014, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsprague View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

Hey Bill, I am sorry, I can get cranky, and my social skills are below zero. It is just that I bought the EOS M after some glowing reviews, and then I also bought the T4i hoping that it shoots better. Nope. Same sensor, same processor. I am flabbergasted why @ 45 Mbit/s the image from 720p60 looks so bad. It is worse than from the Nikon D3200 which records 22 Mbit/s. Now I am in two bodies and a $500 lens, have to sell it all to get either a G6 or GH4 or maybe the RX100Mk3.
Cranky? Not compared to some of the other discussions the last 6 months or so!
Ok, thanks for not being offended. Here, horrible moire from the T4i in 720p60 mode: https://vimeo.com/97905990

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Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post

Ok, thanks for not being offended. Here, horrible moire from the T4i in 720p60 mode: https://vimeo.com/97905990


The TXi cameras are useless for video.
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The TXi cameras are useless for video.

 

Totally ;)

 

 

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post #22 of 37 Old 06-11-2014, 05:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Totally wink.gif


 

This video illustrates exactly how people are fooled. In almost every shot most of the frame is out of focus (on purpose). Shallow dof is hiding the very low resolution and artifacts of the underlying video. So if you want to shoot video in fog or with almost everything out of focus, you do not have to care about resolution, and Canon DSLRs are for you.
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This video illustrates exactly how people are fooled. In almost every shot most of the frame is out of focus (on purpose). Shallow dof is hiding the very low resolution and artifacts of the underlying video. So if you want to shoot video in fog or with almost everything out of focus, you do not have to care about resolution, and Canon DSLRs are for you.

 

:)
Im not fooled by anything. I just dont agree that the tXi are "useless" for video since they clearly produce video of some sort. My most viewed youtube clip had 250 000 views and over 1000 likes in two Days and was shot on a t3i.

Is it as good IQ as a modern camera released almost five years later? No.

Is it useless? No.

IMO of course.

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post #24 of 37 Old 06-11-2014, 06:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mattias Burling View Post

smile.gif

Im not fooled by anything. I just dont agree that the tXi are "useless" for video since they clearly produce video of some sort. My most viewed youtube clip had 250 000 views and over 1000 likes in two Days and was shot on a t3i.
Is it as good IQ as a modern camera released almost five years later? No.
Is it useless? No.
IMO of course.

I agree DLSRs are not useless for video, having shot with one myself for almost a year. If you work around their major limitations you can make some nice videos, taking advantage of the big sensor. But that video is a classic in working around them, artfully (if not a bit boringly).
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post #25 of 37 Old 06-11-2014, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattias Burling View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Tugela


The TXi cameras are useless for video.


Totally

Try shooting with one then. I have a T3i, and while I love it for stills, the video it produces is beyond horrible.
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post #26 of 37 Old 06-11-2014, 10:52 PM
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Try shooting with one then. I have a T3i, and while I love it for stills, the video it produces is beyond horrible.


Read my other post.
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Quote: Originally Posted by Mattias Burling



Im not fooled by anything. I just dont agree that the tXi are "useless" for video since they clearly produce video of some sort. My most viewed youtube clip had 250 000 views and over 1000 likes in two Days and was shot on a t3i.
Is it as good IQ as a modern camera released almost five years later? No.
Is it useless? No.
IMO of course.


I agree DLSRs are not useless for video, having shot with one myself for almost a year. If you work around their major limitations you can make some nice videos, taking advantage of the big sensor. But that video is a classic in working around them, artfully (if not a bit boringly).

I agree with you but to be fair, the video I linked was the ment to illustrate the SDOF that upuntill then had been impossible to achieve for people wit a resonable budget.


A better example could be "Indie Game The Movie" which is a great feature documentary that was shot on a 5D.
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post #28 of 37 Old 06-11-2014, 11:49 PM
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My most viewed youtube clip had 250 000 views and over 1000 likes in two Days and was shot on a t3i.
Not that I am daring you, but do you care to share?
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post #29 of 37 Old 06-12-2014, 07:59 AM
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Quote: Originally Posted by Mattias Burling

Totally

This video illustrates exactly how people are fooled. In almost every shot most of the frame is out of focus (on purpose). Shallow dof is hiding the very low resolution and artifacts of the underlying video. So if you want to shoot video in fog or with almost everything out of focus, you do not have to care about resolution, and Canon DSLRs are for you.

I think the blurry background/soft look is desired for narrative/artistic endeavors because it helps remove the viewer from reality.

Take those same shots without that, for example 60P without the heavy blur and it would be more difficult to evoke the ethereal look the filmmaker was going for. I suppose it's a form of "fooling" the viewer, but it depends what the end purpose of the footage is...

The 4K AX100 footage looks very good, extremely sharp...but it's more of a hyper-reality look better suited for sports or otherwise to convey actual reality.

As far as the resolutions of cameras such as the T2i and EOS M, I like it. I think this is really a sticking point in that a lot of this is personal visual preference - even if numbers dictate higher/lower and/or "better".
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post #30 of 37 Old 06-13-2014, 12:07 PM
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Not that I am daring you, but do you care to share?
Sure, but please note that this is an old channel I had just for kicks and I have abandoned it since 6 months. The channel I currently use is in my real name.


I shot this one on a t3i also. I did it for the guy (who is a friend) so he could use it on is website promoting himself as a Piano technician. And now he is one of the most hired in Stockholm and tunes in the old Abba studio and other cool places. Its of course because he is great at what he does but the marketing probably didn't hurt either and thats not useless at all

https://vimeo.com/67958502
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