Best 1080P (Panasonic TM900) versus 4K (Sony AX100) Face-Off - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 13 Old 06-10-2014, 03:47 PM - Thread Starter
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The TM900 rated best for resolution of any camera or camcorder, at 108060p. So, how does it stack up against 4K video (viewed at less than 4K)?

Frame grabs tell the story.

TM900 long:




AX100 long:



TM900 closer:



AX100 closer:



TM900 medium shot:



AX100 medium shot:



TM900 up close:



AX100 up close:



Unless you select 'original' you are not only viewing at less than 4K, you are viewing compressed versions of the frame grabs (by Vimeo).
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post #2 of 13 Old 06-10-2014, 04:56 PM - Thread Starter
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The TM900 and AX100 conformed to a 1080 video:



First clip of a scene is the TM900.

As you can see, there is more to the AX100 than better resolution (the bigger sensor, the lens, the processor). The TM900 does very well, but...
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post #3 of 13 Old 06-10-2014, 05:54 PM
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Mark,

Once again, you are a good teacher. I continue to learn from you.

I think the first lesson is that the AX100 is as good as there ever has been for consumers.

The second lesson is that 4K is not going to improve what I do enough to justify the price! I do appreciate the post processing opportunities. Yet, my personal travel and family documentation won't get $2000 better if I buy the camera.

This particular A/B teaches me that what I have is not at all useless. In fact, it convinces me that it is pretty good!

Thank you.

Bill
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post #4 of 13 Old 06-12-2014, 09:50 AM
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Hi

This doesn't make much sense.

For a start the TM900 is 60fps and the 1080P derived from 4K is only ever going to be 30fps from the AX100. The two are not the same thing where motion is concerned, although not visible unless watching the original files.

Also who says the TM900 is the best 1080P camera? The better 1080P is going to be from the Sony AX100 as that is from a larger sensor with better optics designed for 4K and at almost twice the bit-rate at 1080P than the TM900 manages, plus is a like for like comparison with 60 frames per second of the TM900.

Yes we all know by now that nose up against the screen 4K down sampled to 1080P has an edge (as will 8K to 4K in a few years time), although this is advantage is completely lost when that output is re-encoded to play friendly codecs as 1080P and people sit watching from a normal viewing distance.

What people seem to forget is that 4K only produces better 1080P when it is 4K from acquisition to playback screen with the down sampling happening just before display, but if we can do that, then what we are actually watching is 4K, albeit with less resolution on the display, which often doesn't matter as computer monitors aren't big enough to really show off the full 4K resolution that much anyway.

For 1080P delivery, where the output is a 1080P encoded file for compatibility with current day media players, internet streaming or Blu-ray, the benefits are lost as we are now watching 1080P.

Regards

Phil
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post #5 of 13 Old 06-12-2014, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip_L View Post
Hi

Yes we all know by now that nose up against the screen 4K down sampled to 1080P has an edge (as will 8K to 4K in a few years time), although this is advantage is completely lost when that output is re-encoded to play friendly codecs as 1080P and people sit watching from a normal viewing distance.

Phil
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post #6 of 13 Old 06-13-2014, 06:21 AM
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When are all you pixel peepers going to start making interesting videos with your great 4K cams/cameras.
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post #7 of 13 Old 06-13-2014, 07:31 AM
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I'm not a pixel peeper, never have never will be. To me, it's nothing more than a silly way to try to show something that often can't be seen when viewed the way normal people view pictures or video. So I know this wasn't directed at me, Chris.

Besides, I've already made some interesting videos...at least I think so.
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post #8 of 13 Old 06-13-2014, 08:24 AM
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Not alone Ken,it seems all 4k cam owners are pixel peepers and i guess its hard not to be but for me i still enjoy a film with realy interesting content made with a poor quality cam/camera than all the films i have seen on 4K,but there have been plenty so i may have missed some.
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post #9 of 13 Old 06-13-2014, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flintyplus View Post
When are all you pixel peepers going to start making interesting videos with your great 4K cams/cameras.
Part of the fun and intrigue on this forum is that nobody even tries to make interesting videos of their adventures or stories. The delightful focus here solely on equipment performance.

Somewhere, maybe Vimeo itself, the focus is on making creative video with whatever tools they have.

I wonder if there are artists with websites focused on the variety of brushes on the market?
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post #10 of 13 Old 06-13-2014, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flintyplus View Post
Not alone Ken,it seems all 4k cam owners are pixel peepers and i guess its hard not to be but for me i still enjoy a film with realy interesting content made with a poor quality cam/camera than all the films i have seen on 4K,but there have been plenty so i may have missed some.
I don't think so Chris. 4K owners like Mark, myself some others don't do any pixel peeping. No need to. The pixel peeping seems to be done by non-owners trying to show some 'issue' with 4K cameras.
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post #11 of 13 Old 06-13-2014, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsprague View Post
Part of the fun and intrigue on this forum is that nobody even tries to make interesting videos of their adventures or stories. The delightful focus here solely on equipment performance.

Somewhere, maybe Vimeo itself, the focus is on making creative video with whatever tools they have.

I wonder if there are artists with websites focused on the variety of brushes on the market?
Well, if recording your travels is not considered 'creative' then so be it. Doing Indie type stuff never intrigued me, I leave that to the Hollywood guys. I guess I'm not a creative guy by that standard.

However, IMO, framing, exposure and just getting things 'right' can be quite creative... but what do I know?
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post #12 of 13 Old 06-13-2014, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Well, if recording your travels is not considered 'creative' then so be it. Doing Indie type stuff never intrigued me, I leave that to the Hollywood guys. I guess I'm not a creative guy by that standard.

However, IMO, framing, exposure and just getting things 'right' can be quite creative... but what do I know?
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post #13 of 13 Old 06-13-2014, 06:20 PM
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No offense taken. I do think many think that videos of locations traveled are B-O-R-I-N-G. Of course we don't.
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