Panasonic FZ1000 4k camera with 1" sensor! - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 179 Old 06-12-2014, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brunerww View Post
Things I like: UHD, 1080/120p, longer zoom range than the RX10

Things I don't like: No constant aperture lens, No ND filter, no headphone jack, no true 4K, no 24p in UHD, 30 min continuous clip length in UHD, plastic non-weathersealed body

For me, the addition of UHD is not enough to overcome this camera's disadvantages.
Things I like:
* All popular frame rates in 1080p (I missed it: is it a "world" cam? Can a U.S. model be switched to 50Hz rates?)
* Mic input
* standard shoe
* Flash
* Focus ring, yeah! Not true mechanical, but hey, this is a hybrid cam.
* large zoom range

Things I don't like:
* Only 30p in 4K? Ok, I can get performance/heating issues as a good reason for omission of 60p, but why no 24p?
* Only 30p in 720p? This is even weirder.
* 100 Mbit/s for 4K, but only 28 Mbit/s for HD? I understand that Panasonic wanted to stay within AVCHD spec, but its other cams have MP4 wrapper with 35 Mbit/s, why not this one?
* No touch-screen? So no touch-focus. The Sony HC1 had it almost a decade ago.
* No headphone out? Ah, well.
* No ND filter? Even the 2006 HDC-SD1 had one, albeit not directly controllable. At least there is thread on the lens.

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Originally Posted by brunerww View Post
Overall, for me, this camera is a fail - if I were a fixed lens guy, I'd spend the extra $400 for the RX10 just for the weathersealed body and the headphone jack.
Yep, pretty much my opinion here. Two years ago this would be a hit, one year ago it would be ok, this year it is underwhelming. OTOH, the RX10 is limited at 1080p60 @ 28 Mbit/s. I hope that Sony has new version in the works to match capabilities the RX100Mk3. THAT one would be the real deal.
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Originally Posted by brunerww View Post
As an interchangeable lens guy, I'd rather have the G6 with the kit lens for $650.
I'd rather have a fixed-lens hybrid, and this one is close, but does not hit all the bases. Something like the RX10 with 50 Mbit/s rate and 4:2:2 color in HD (don't care about 4K) would be nice.
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post #32 of 179 Old 06-13-2014, 02:52 AM
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I think the key words for this camera are $899 and 4K/30p. The other things that it has or doesn't I don't think ever count for much. Technical issues aside, the 30p limitation is definitely crucial too as anything above this would kill the GH4.
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post #33 of 179 Old 06-13-2014, 03:29 AM
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Originally Posted by P&Struefan View Post
I think the key words for this camera are $899 and 4K/30p.
Not if you live in Europe. PAL is 4K/25p and in Sweden it will cost 1200USD (8500SEK)

Any american who is willing to pay 300USD extra for 5 frames LESS per second? Anyone…?

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post #34 of 179 Old 06-13-2014, 03:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post
I'd rather have a fixed-lens hybrid, and this one is close, but does not hit all the bases. Something like the RX10 with 50 Mbit/s rate and 4:2:2 color in HD (don't care about 4K) would be nice.
I'm kind of on the same boat, but what I care about is a decent zoom, recording length, and the ability to snap pictures while taking video. So with that in mind, having the ability to grab an 8mp still vs a 2mp s still is a huge benefit of 4k.

So far we know that this one has a good zoom and we know the 4k is limited to 29m59s, but what about the other AVCHD rates? We know it can take screen shots while replaying the 4k video, but can it snap a picture while it is recording?
A few side notes. According to one of the previews I read, 4k 24p would be coming in a firmware update. As soon as I get to a real computer I'll find the link (typing this on my phone). Also, since this shares a ton of tech with the GH4 (mainly the new processing engine), I wonder how difficult it would be to mod the firmware to add a few of the framerate features on the gh4. I might have just found a new hobby!!!

edit: I can't find the 24p thing anymore...maybe I just imagined it! Regardless, it's using the same processor as the GH4...so I'm going to get to researching firmware hacking! :-D

Last edited by pezgod; 06-13-2014 at 05:43 AM.
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post #35 of 179 Old 06-13-2014, 06:43 AM
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Equivalent aperture comparison chart :

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post #36 of 179 Old 06-13-2014, 08:35 AM
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Good chart Joe. It shows that the FZ1000 will, barring some unusual feat with its electronics, lag the other cameras in low light.
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post #37 of 179 Old 06-13-2014, 10:29 AM
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I agree Ken, it's hard to beat a large sensor in low light. My FF VG900 is great with slow FF zooms like my 24-200mm Nikon lens in low light indoors @200mm. I will have to test my Sony A7r with Zeiss 55mm F1.8 FE in 1080p60 mode since it's sharper than the $4K Zeiss Otus 55mm F1.4.

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post #38 of 179 Old 06-13-2014, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jogiba View Post
I agree Ken, it's hard to beat a large sensor in low light. My FF VG900 is great with slow FF zooms like my 24-200mm Nikon lens in low light indoors @200mm. I will have to test my Sony A7r with Zeiss 55mm F1.8 FE in 1080p60 mode since it's sharper than the $4K Zeiss Otus 55mm F1.4.
I was trying to find some charts to see how this one would compare to my current camera...but I couldn't find it anywhere! If anybody can find charts for a Kodak easyshare z740 to compare low light scores to, I'd appreciate it! I want to make sure that it would be an upgrade before pulling the trigger!




Last edited by pezgod; 06-13-2014 at 01:44 PM.
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post #39 of 179 Old 06-14-2014, 05:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pezgod View Post
I was trying to find some charts to see how this one would compare to my current camera...but I couldn't find it anywhere! If anybody can find charts for a Kodak easyshare z740 to compare low light scores to, I'd appreciate it! I want to make sure that it would be an upgrade before pulling the trigger!



According to DPR:
excellent color, generally very good exposure
Versatile 38-380mm zoom range
Very compact
Good handling and easy access to most photographic controls
Good flash performance
Good white balance in most situations
Both screen and EVF work well in low light
Generally accurate focus
Lots of features, easy point-and-shoot use
Huge range of scene modes and simple explanations of features/functions
Simple, automated picture sharing with supplied software suite
Good battery life
Very good price

If I were you, I would keep it for another 9 years.
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post #40 of 179 Old 06-14-2014, 05:38 AM
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^ I thought I read that Kodak might offer a firmware upgrade to 4K.
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post #41 of 179 Old 06-14-2014, 09:50 AM - Thread Starter
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^ I thought I read that Kodak might offer a firmware upgrade to 4K.
Kickass!!! And I think I'll stick with the nearly 1sec to focus!


Posting from a line in cedar point... Know you're addicted to avsforum when posting at one of the best amusement parks in the world!
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post #42 of 179 Old 06-14-2014, 10:37 AM
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Bill, in all honesty, there is virtually no visible difference between 3840x2160 and 'real 4K'. So I can't get excited about that omission.
I want the option to convert to 4K DCP for theatrical projection, so I like having the extra pixels

For TV and YouTube, UHD is fine.
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post #43 of 179 Old 06-14-2014, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pezgod View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
^ I thought I read that Kodak might offer a firmware upgrade to 4K.
Kickass!!! And I think I'll stick with the nearly 1sec to focus!
As long as your subject is there for 2 seconds, no problem.

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Posting from a line in cedar point... Know you're addicted to avsforum when posting at one of the best amusement parks in the world!
Been there done that. It IS a sickness.
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post #44 of 179 Old 06-14-2014, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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And I'm back home. No matter how many times I told the rides to hold still for 2 seconds, they just kept on going! I'm thinking that the spinning rides that my daughter was on would have looked awesome recorded in 720p240!!!
oh and the 12fps burst mode could've helped too!
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post #45 of 179 Old 06-15-2014, 01:00 AM
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For a few years there have been europeans like myself that have been disappointed on various forums that Olympus only makes their cameras in 30p. The video quality is nice but not super on those cams but boy did I love the 5axis IBIS in my E-M5.
Olympus fans from 30p land often get a bit upset and just cant understand how annoyed we get from not being able to intercut the camera with others or use them near elictrical lights.
This camera seems to be the answer.

Ive always said that if Olympus just uped the codec a tad and introduced 24/25p they would absolutly kill a big chunk of the market but time is ticking and pretty soon even that camera would be old fashioned.
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post #46 of 179 Old 06-16-2014, 05:27 AM
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I´m waiting for a IQ comparison in 1080p 120fps between FZ1000 and V750.
(Sony RX100 III and LX7 720p at 120fps seems a little soft)
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post #47 of 179 Old 06-21-2014, 11:21 AM
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They obviously should have tried comparing it to the AX100.

Personally, I'd be more interested in the rumored LX8 than the FZ1000 for that price range. Significantly smaller, build in ND filters, 24p mode, and a much faster lens. Still wont have anywhere near as much reach as the FZ1000. To me, that's the only benefit that the FZ1000 will have over the LX8. I do wonder if it'll have a crop as much as the FZ1000's when shooting 4K videos.

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post #48 of 179 Old 06-21-2014, 12:46 PM
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Watched that review and noticed them mentioning the 'stepped' aperture. That's always been an issue for me and something I really disliked with every GH series camera I owned. When shooting video, it's hard to miss the gross steps that the camera is selecting. I really don't understand why, for so long, Panasonic has done this.

I remember posting questions a few years ago when I got my GH3, if people were seeing this stepping action. I actually thought my camera was defective.

As much as I enjoy watching the Camera Store's reviews, and Chris is just great in front of a camera, I'll never understand their approach to showing sample videos from products they're reviewing. The videos are either poorly done, or as was the case in this review, 3 second clips that are repeated and are too short to determine much of anything.

As for 'comparing it to an AX100', my money would be squarely on the AX100. The low light on the Z was obviously very poor with chroma & luma noise visible.
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post #49 of 179 Old 06-21-2014, 01:20 PM
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I remember posting questions a few years ago when I got my GH3, if people were seeing this stepping action. I actually thought my camera was defective.
To be fare, thats what you get from shooting video with a still lens. If you buy cine lenses meant for video they are step less. Im not aware of any DSLR type camera from Panasonic, Sony or any other brand that somehow has step less aperture unless its a cine lens. My Canon L lens on my Sony has way closer steps but so would it on the GH3.
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post #50 of 179 Old 06-21-2014, 03:04 PM
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Mattias, you are correct, I hadn't thought about it. But I guess it does point out a significant issue of shooting video with a DSLR.
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post #51 of 179 Old 06-21-2014, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
As for 'comparing it to an AX100', my money would be squarely on the AX100. The low light on the Z was obviously very poor with chroma & luma noise visible.
In theory, Just talking about 4K recordings, It should be slightly better on the AX100 at the same Aperture just for the simple fact that it uses more of the chip for the video when the chips are very similar. Never-mind anything else.

Still, what I meant is that they should have included it in order to make their review more fair. Now to wait until Panasonic fully spills the beans on the LX8. That's going to be an interesting camera. I hope it wont get the same kind of crop as the FZ1000 but at least it'll have a lens that starts out much faster. Now if it ends up using more of the pixels for video or the chip itself gets fewer but bigger pixels, that would be incredible.

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post #52 of 179 Old 06-22-2014, 05:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Hmm. Looks like Panasonic decided to remove the other high speed options. Only 120fps at 1080p is available. Oh well.
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post #53 of 179 Old 06-22-2014, 12:37 PM
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According to cyberphoto http://www.cyberphoto.se/info.php?article=FZ1000 the 100fps mode in 1080p was a little disappointing because the lack of sharpness.
It should be the same implement as in V750 (and will mean that this sharpness drawback is present in the Panasonic V750 too?!)

I guess we have to wait another year for a ordinary (not slow motion) 1080p with 100/120fps to solve this problem.
Besides, is 4K 30fps easier to implement than ordinary 120fps in 1080p?

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post #54 of 179 Old 06-22-2014, 06:47 PM
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The sensor in the FZ1000 is very different than the sensor that's used in the V750 so you can't actually say that if one camera might not do it well, the other wont do it well either even if everything else is the same. The best thing to do is find native samples from the V750.
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post #55 of 179 Old 07-02-2014, 09:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's a 100fps video. I still haven't found a 120fps clip yet. But this looks nice!

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post #56 of 179 Old 08-03-2014, 01:54 AM
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this short sample from the FZ1000 using the built in mike.
all 4K footage unedited.

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post #57 of 179 Old 08-03-2014, 07:31 AM
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Advantage AX100: The Zoom

The FZ1000 (and the GH4) cannot beat the AX100 for zooming. You get a power zoom, with no hesitations, flicker, or re-focus, and amazing detail at the telephoto end. And it is 12X.


This short video shows the zoom in action (and does not make you sick) that focuses in on a scene miles away:


https://vimeo.com/102450384
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post #58 of 179 Old 08-03-2014, 10:09 AM
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Yep, the re-focusing on zoom of the FZ1000 does not look good.
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post #59 of 179 Old 08-03-2014, 10:17 AM
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Yes but some say "Thou Shall Not Zoom While Recording"
(85% of the times I agree).
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post #60 of 179 Old 08-03-2014, 10:19 AM
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^ Mark, it's interesting you said that. I just commented on Billy's FZ1000 video on another thread. I noticed the zoom hesitations as well as a camera refocusing with each zoom hesitation. Overall sharpness, detail & color seemed good though.

The zoom seems to behave differently than the RX10 and more like a conventional DSLR. I don't recall having either that hesitation or refocusing issue with the RX10, just a very slow zoom. I didn't expect it to match the zooming of the AX100 or almost any conventional camcorder, but I would still have hoped for a smoother zoom without the refocusing issues.

I have to confess I have the FZ1000 on order, but I think I'm leaning toward cancelling it.
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