Panasonic FZ1000 4k camera with 1" sensor! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 55 Old 06-11-2014, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Panasonic FZ1000 4k camera with 1" sensor!

http://www.43rumors.com/ft5-first-im...asonic-fz1000/

From the article on 43rumors.com

Quote:
Our Japanese friends from Digicameinfo shared the first image of the new Panasonic FZ1000. While this is not a MFT camera it’s certainly a suprirsingly high quality and very interesting camera to talk about! It has some good-looking features like (marked in bold):
- 1.0-inch CMOS sensor
- Venus engine
- 25-400mm equivalent f/2.8-4.0 Leica DC Vario Elmarit lens.
- Lens configuration is 15 pieces in 11 groups. 5 aspherical lens (8 Side)
- AF linear motor. AF speed is 0.09 seconds
- 0.66 seconds start-up time
- 4K video
- 4K PHOTO to cut out a still image of 8 million pixels from 4K video
- The space recognition AF by DFD
- EVF is 2.36 million dot-inch organic EL 0.39
- A monitor 920,000 dot 3.0-inch
- Continuous shooting 12 frames / second
- Wi-Fi, NFC
- Focus peaking, ring type manual focus
- Camera RAW development
This new camera will compete straight against the Sony RX10 (specs here at Amazon). But it has a much more useful 25-400mm lens range and records 4K video! Easy to guess the new LX8 will use the same sensor and hopefully also the same EVF. We still don’t know if this is the same 20MP Sony RX100M3 sensor or a brand new Panasonic or Aptina sensor.
There is supposedly going to be an announcement tomorrow!
http://www.uniquephoto.com/lumixlounge

I'm excited about this one! With Panasonic apparently deciding against making a G7, this could be a decent substitute.
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post #2 of 55 Old 06-11-2014, 09:33 PM
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And, you can order one from B&H!

Panasonic FZ1000 at B&H
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post #3 of 55 Old 06-11-2014, 11:09 PM
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The GH4 just lost $1000 worth of it's resale value! Just kidding...knowing Panasonic, the 4K image quality of this FZ1000 will likely turn out to be deliberately dumbed down in some important aspects just as the LX7's 1080/60p footage was (e.g. lackluster detail resolution and unrealistic looking colors). So a month from now everyone will likely realize the FZ1000 is just a teaser 4K camera with impressive sounding specs.

Last edited by SD90; 06-12-2014 at 01:08 AM.
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post #4 of 55 Old 06-11-2014, 11:28 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm reading through the b&h article, liking the specs, then I get to this...Maximum Recording Time 29 minutes, 59 seconds.. Nnnnoooooo....


I hope that is a mistake! Couldn't the fz200 do more than the 30minute limit imposed by most cameras (in avchd mode anyway)?


edit: Reading actual product page, saw this..
Benefitting from the 1" MOS image sensor, The FZ1000 is able to record 4K QFHD (3840 x 2160) video at 30p with a high bit rate of 100Mbps in the MP4 file format. Full HD 1080 video can also be recorded-at 60p, 30p, 24p, or 60i-in the AVCHD format, as well as full HD, HD, and SD formats in the MP4 format. Additionally, high speed video recording is possible at 1080p, 720p, and 480p with sensor output frame rates of 120 fps, 240 fps, and 360 fps, respectively. When recording 4K video, use of a UHS-3 memory card is recommended and continuous recording up to 29 minutes and 59 seconds is possible


looks like the 30 min recording limit may just be for mp4 after all!

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post #5 of 55 Old 06-11-2014, 11:52 PM
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30p? Meh. But it can do 1080p60. If that ribbed thing around the lens is a focus ring, I might consider it.
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post #6 of 55 Old 06-11-2014, 11:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post
30p? Meh. But it can do 1080p60. If that ribbed thing around the lens is a focus ring, I might consider it.
I'm also thinking the 1080p120 would be cool! However, the lack of IS in 4k is disappointing

from the b&h article...


In addition to fast autofocus, the camera will capture rapid action with a continuous shooting rate of up to 50 fps with the electronic shutter and with the mechanical shutter, it supports 12 fps, and it can even reach a speed of 7 fps when using continuous autofocus. Manual focus even gets a boost in the form of focus peaking for quickly confirming what is in focus.

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post #7 of 55 Old 06-12-2014, 04:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pezgod View Post
I'm also thinking the 1080p120 would be cool! However, the lack of IS in 4k is disappointing
What makes you think there's no stabilization in 4K? In fact, the 5 axis hybrid OIS may be very effective.

I think this could be an interesting camera. This series has generally yielded good quality video and, depending on the quality of the 16x lens, could steal some sales from the GH4.

Right now, it looks like it's biggest issue will be low light performance.
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post #8 of 55 Old 06-12-2014, 05:56 AM
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I think this will steal sales from the AX100 since it has a the same 1" size sensor, wider range 16x 25-400mm eqiv. F2.8-4 fixed zoom vs 12x 29-348mm F2.8-4.5 fixed zoom on the AX100 for less than half the price.

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post #9 of 55 Old 06-12-2014, 06:25 AM
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You could be right Joe. It may steal sales from both. But remember some people like a particular form factor and that's why I first mentioned the GH4.

Of course ultimately, the test will be the PQ. If it matches the PQ of either or both, than the more expensive cams will take a hit.

But I'd bet the low light will not be as good as the AX100. Sony generally bests similar Panasonics in that area.


Edit: Just watched that promo video and it looks quite nice. I can see off the bat it doesn't have the detail of the AX100, but I already like its color better than I did with my GH4!

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post #10 of 55 Old 06-12-2014, 06:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
What makes you think there's no stabilization in 4K? In fact, the 5 axis hybrid OIS may be very effective
From the product page on the 'lumix lounge"

5-AXIS Correction / Tilt Correction

The HYBRID O.I.S. (Optical Image Stabilizer) + with 5-axis correction* gives you blur-less, one-handed video shooting ability. It detects and compensates for the camera's 5 types of movement – horizontal, vertical, axis of rotation, vertical rotation and horizontal rotation. The Level Shot Function* detects the image's horizontal line and maintains it even if the camera is tilted. It takes stable video even in high-angle, blind recording.
* HYBRID O.I.S.+ and Level Shot Function do not work in 4K video recording."

http://www.uniquephoto.com/lumixloun...-400mm-f-2-8-4


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post #11 of 55 Old 06-12-2014, 06:41 AM
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Ken it might have the same Sony 20mp 1" sensor since Sony makes sensors for Nikon, Pentax etc.

BTW I just purchased the Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 75mm f/1.8 and Panasonic Lumix G Vario 100-300mm F/4.0-5.6 OIS Lens for my GH4 so I now have a full range from 6.5mm to 300mm ( 13-600mm FF eqiv) not counting my scopes. I also purchased the Sony A7r 36mp FF with Sony Sonnar T* FE 55mm f/1.8 ZA Lens that is one of the sharpest lenses ever tested since I want to shoot some stills for 24x36" enlargements.

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post #12 of 55 Old 06-12-2014, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm hoping we get full details today on the 1:00 webcast from http://www.uniquephoto.com/lumixlounge
I'm really wanting to know if the 30 minute limit is in fact only for the 4k video. If it is, I'll be getting this! Cheaper than the g6 with required lenses to get the same focal length!

edit: I haven't seen anything about a touchscreen.... In this video, the guy is clearly using button navigation.


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post #13 of 55 Old 06-12-2014, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jogiba View Post
......BTW I just purchased .....Panasonic Lumix G Vario 100-300mm F/4.0-5.6 OIS Lens for my GH4 ...
I've had that lens on my GX7 since Christmas. It needs a tripod and the German lens collar. It seems to work best with IS off and backed off a little from full zoom. Focus errors are magnified! I can hand hold it up to about 175 for photos, but not for video.

Have fun with it.
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post #14 of 55 Old 06-12-2014, 08:22 AM
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Pezgod, even though the 5 axis IS may not work in 4K, it's almost inconceivable to me that a less aggressive OIS doesn't kick in with 4K.

If this camera had no form of IS in 4K, it wouldn't be a 'disappointment', it would be a disaster. Shooting in 4K would yield videos that were not much different from cellphone 4K videos in terms of stability. There would be little point. I don't see many buyers of this cam using a tripod for their 4K shots

I just can't believe that's the case.
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post #15 of 55 Old 06-12-2014, 09:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Pezgod, even though the 5 axis IS may not work in 4K, it's almost inconceivable to me that a less aggressive OIS doesn't kick in with 4K.

If this camera had no form of IS in 4K, it wouldn't be a 'disappointment', it would be a disaster. Shooting in 4K would yield videos that were not much different from cellphone 4K videos in terms of stability. There would be little point. I don't see many buyers of this cam using a tripod for their 4K shots

I just can't believe that's the case.
I hope so too!!! One more hour till webcast
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post #16 of 55 Old 06-12-2014, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm wondering if you need to playback the video to take a screengrab, of if you can press the shutter button WHILE recording video to snap a shot. maybe i'll have to make a stupid twitter account to ask them a question.

sigh...I miss the old panasonic.net website that told you pretty much every single thing about all these cameras!

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post #17 of 55 Old 06-12-2014, 02:16 PM
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It's $898 at both B&H and Amazon. It's a bit steep but on the other hand, it's $400 cheaper than the HD only RX10. Available on July 31.

As for the OS, It says "Hybrid" OIS not being available during 4K recordings so it wouldn't be surprising if 4K works with a regular OIS like the AX100. One reason that the GH4 doesn't have a 5 axis OIS is because the combination with shooting in 4K with that can cause heating issues. Heating issues could also be the reason why Sony didn't put their top OIS into the AX100.

We need confirmation on rather or not it shoots 24p in 4k. I'm not sure yet and that would stink if it doesn't have it but on the other hand, Panasonic might rather you get the GH4 if you wanted 24p. 30p isn't a problem for many people but if you're hired for a shooing gig and the person wants 24p, they'll be issues. It also seams that the 30 minute limit might also be for NTSC models. That would also stink.

While I'm at it, I wonder if it has built in ND's. One place is saying no but the LX8 on the other hand is rumored to have it. If you purchase ND filters for it, you'll get a better image when shooting in broad daylight. Basically any sample you see could have looked better in case the shooters didn't use one.

Still much cheaper than the GH4 and AX100. They'll always be trade offs for a low price.

Maybe that chip will go into the successor of the X920.


Skip the first 2 minutes.

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post #18 of 55 Old 06-12-2014, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsprague View Post
I've had that lens on my GX7 since Christmas. It needs a tripod and the German lens collar. It seems to work best with IS off and backed off a little from full zoom. Focus errors are magnified! I can hand hold it up to about 175 for photos, but not for video.

Have fun with it.
I tested the OIS and it's not bad with the GH4 even at full 300mm (600mm FF eqiv) if you keep it steady but I will use my monopod most of the time at full zoom. Did you get the German lens collar ?
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post #19 of 55 Old 06-12-2014, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jogiba View Post
.... Did you get the German lens collar ?
Yes. It is very well made. There are even two tripod screw holes arranged to balance for heavier GH3 type or lighter GX7 cameras. It makes a big difference at full zoom. The company is fun to deal with. They use PayPal and surface mail. Mine to a full 18 days because of slow customs in New York.
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post #20 of 55 Old 06-12-2014, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post
We need confirmation on rather or not it shoots 24p in 4k. While I'm at it, I wonder if it has built in ND's.
No to both questions. See Richard Butler's First Impressions review at http://www.dpreview.com/previews/pan...k&ref=features
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post #21 of 55 Old 06-12-2014, 05:59 PM
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^ I see a number of people saw what I saw in the demo video, softness. Also comments about chroma noise.

As for 'features', it wouldn't bother me at all not having 24p, but not having built-in ND filters is a real negative.
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post #22 of 55 Old 06-12-2014, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
^ I see a number of people saw what I saw in the demo video, softness. Also comments about chroma noise.
Can you give a link to that? The posts I mean.
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post #23 of 55 Old 06-12-2014, 07:24 PM
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Things I like: UHD, 1080/120p, longer zoom range than the RX10

Things I don't like: No constant aperture lens, No ND filter, no headphone jack, no true 4K, no 24p in UHD, 30 min continuous clip length in UHD, plastic non-weathersealed body

For me, the addition of UHD is not enough to overcome this camera's disadvantages.

Overall, for me, this camera is a fail - if I were a fixed lens guy, I'd spend the extra $400 for the RX10 just for the weathersealed body and the headphone jack.

As an interchangeable lens guy, I'd rather have the G6 with the kit lens for $650.

And if I wanted real 4K, I'd save up for a GH4.

I did a post on this called, "New 4K Panasonic FZ1000 - Sony RX10 Killer?" Spoiler alert - it's not

Cheers,

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post #24 of 55 Old 06-12-2014, 07:42 PM
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I'm surprised why Sony have supplied their market-conquering 1" chip to an obvious competitor like Panasonic who have come right back and bitten them hard with this 4K device? Maybe they have something better up their sleeves that will be their exclusive?

My guess is they are readying a 1/2.3" sensor based Cybershots and probably compact Handycams for market with significantly lower costs than this FZ1000. The current version of such sensor (20.4 Mpx, not the 8.3 Mpx version in the AX1 and Z100) is already performing well for its size and resolution and has made the latest HX-series Cybershots shoot up to 1080/50/60p 28Mbps AVCHD at very decent quality. These new lower cost 4K real cameras will no doubt shoot superior footage to the juddering, pumping 4K from the current US$600-700 flagship cellphones by a good margin.

My HX400V, for example, zooms up to 1200mm without breaking a sweat. And because the sensor is much smaller than 1" the IS is easier to be made effective. The image is stable all the way up to the max 1200mm in stills and roughly about 600mm in video. The Active and Intelligent Active IS will take it a little further at the cost of some resolution just like the system does in the RX10, AX100 etc.

This is just one example and I'm sure we'll see a torrent of 4K devices coming to the market in the 2nd half of this year.

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post #25 of 55 Old 06-12-2014, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira View Post
Can you give a link to that? The posts I mean.
Look under the initial impressions article you posted. There are a number of posts from people that watched the demo video.
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post #26 of 55 Old 06-12-2014, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brunerww View Post
Things I like: UHD, 1080/120p, longer zoom range than the RX10

Things I don't like: No constant aperture lens, No ND filter, no headphone jack, no true 4K, no 24p in UHD, 30 min continuous clip length in UHD, plastic non-weathersealed body

For me, the addition of UHD is not enough to overcome this camera's disadvantages.

Overall, for me, this camera is a fail - if I were a fixed lens guy, I'd spend the extra $400 for the RX10 just for the weathersealed body and the headphone jack.

As an interchangeable lens guy, I'd rather have the G6 with the kit lens for $650.

And if I wanted real 4K, I'd save up for a GH4.

I did a post on this called, "New 4K Panasonic FZ1000 - Sony RX10 Killer?" Spoiler alert - it's not

Cheers,

Bill
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Bill, in all honesty, there is virtually no visible difference between 3840x2160 and 'real 4K'. So I can't get excited about that omission.

For something like a constant aperture lens, this cam is under $1,000, so compromises had to be made.

I don't think that the addition of a headphone jack or 24p would have been that costly, so no excuses there.

Not having a ND filter? Well the GH4 doesn't have it either and that's almost 2x the price. So I don't think you can fault it there either.

In the end, this is a relatively inexpensive 4K point and shoot camera, and I'm sure it will do well for its intended market.
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post #27 of 55 Old 06-12-2014, 08:02 PM
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The lens goes from an equivalent of 24-400 verses 24-200 of the RX10. I wonder what's the aperture of the FZ1000 when it goes to 200mm. The aperture isn't constant but it's a trade off for allowing you to get double the reach of the RX10. Now if you crop 1080p out of that 4K video, the reach is even greater.

As for 4K, a lot of the 4K TV's out their can only do 3840. The GH4 can go to 4096 but only at a frame rate of 24p.

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post #28 of 55 Old 06-12-2014, 08:11 PM
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Paulo, zoom ratios aside, you can bet the FZ1000's lens will not be of the same quality of the lens used in the RX10. That lens has become almost legendary.

Personally I'd give up some reach for quality. But of course the RX10 does not do 4K.
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post #29 of 55 Old 06-12-2014, 08:18 PM
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How do you know it wont be of the same quality? Some Panasonic and Leica lenses have gotten a ton of praise. Even if the lens on the Sony is slightly better, it would still be a trade off.
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post #30 of 55 Old 06-12-2014, 08:44 PM
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Because I don't believe, at that price point, they could have afforded to invest as much as Sony did in the RX10 lens.

Also, the 4K demo is somewhat soft, so that could be a function of the lens, processing or both. Time will tell.

It's also unclear if the IS in 4K will be good enough to stabilize the outer reaches of the zoom's range. So let's wait to see how usable it actually is.

But as I said, the image, based on the demo, looks nice. I like the color rendition.
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