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-   -   Optics: AX100 vs FZ1000 (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/161-camcorders/1610986-optics-ax100-vs-fz1000.html)

AJInstitute 07-20-2014 05:52 PM

Optics: AX100 vs FZ1000
 
From a cursory look at their spec sheets, these two cameras seem to have very similar optics.

62mm front element f/2.8 - 4(4.5) lens projecting onto a 20MP 1" sensor with direct pixel readout.

The Sony spec is barely slower on the long end at less overall zoom, but are both cameras likely to have similar optical performance?

Ken Ross 07-20-2014 08:54 PM

The only thing we can say is that front element size and lens speed tells us little about the lens quality. That question will be answered once the FZ is released. We do know that the Zeiss lenses used in the Sonys have been excellent. Likewise, the Leica lenses often used in the Pannys, are nothing to sneeze at.

P&Struefan 07-20-2014 10:34 PM

The lens on the AX100 is a very good lens in terms of not showing any major weaknesses. Excellent resolving power to let the 8M-pixel image pop out. CAs are almost unnoticeable, very low distortion and low flare. I heard some people say the camera used software tricks to correct the distortion at the wide end resulting in the cropped out frame that narrows the FoV. I don't mind that IMO. What it doesn't show is what is not there for me.

If I have to point out a weakness about the optics of the AX100 it would probably be the size of the system required to cover the 1" image circle of the sensor surely compromised Sony engineers's options to design a more effective OIS into the system. I own a number of Sony smaller handycams equipped with a much smaller 1/2.88" sensor, all have a more effective in-the-lens OIS system, both Standard and the digitally enhanced Active Mode. Not to even mention the gyro-stabilized PJ760V whose OIS is in another class entirely.

AJInstitute 07-21-2014 01:30 PM

Its probably a bit optimistic of me to think that they will be equivalent at such a price difference. There have been lots of great examples of the beautiful moving images the Sony can take. I can't say that the YouTube Panasonic videos have looked as good. I'd really like to see a comparison video in the hands of a skilled shooter. I'm sure one will be posted here in the next several weeks.

jogiba 07-21-2014 02:41 PM

DPR FZ1000 review
 
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5489/...cda504a5_o.png

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2898/...22aed639_o.png

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/pana...x-dmc-fz1000/8

Paulo Teixeira 07-21-2014 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJInstitute (Post 25924985)
Its probably a bit optimistic of me to think that they will be equivalent at such a price difference. There have been lots of great examples of the beautiful moving images the Sony can take. I can't say that the YouTube Panasonic videos have looked as good. I'd really like to see a comparison video in the hands of a skilled shooter. I'm sure one will be posted here in the next several weeks.

I'm sure markr041 will be getting an FZ1000 immediately. As for Ken Ross, he'll skip it but he might get the Panasonic LX8 immediately. Mark might get the LX8 at the same time as Ken. Joking aside, it'll be hard for anyone with an AX100 already to consider the FZ1000.

SD90 07-22-2014 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jogiba (Post 25926905)

Dpreview still has not reviewed and rated the GH4 which has been on the US market nearly 3 months - yet it reviewed and rated the FZ1000 before it even hit the US market!

Ungermann 07-22-2014 09:08 AM

All the reviews I watched and read say that the FZ1000 drops to F4 very quickly when you zoom in. Basically, it is F2.8 only in full wide mode. Also, it has no ND filter (at least not one that can be manually controlled). No 4Kp24.

The RX10 Mk2 would be the ultimate camera if Sony adds 50+ Mbit/s, 4K, and mechanically faster zoom.

Ken Ross 07-22-2014 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ungermann (Post 25946042)
All the reviews I watched and read say that the FZ1000 drops to F4 very quickly when you zoom in. Basically, it is F2.8 only in full wide mode. Also, it has no ND filter (at least not one that can be manually controlled). No 4Kp24.

The RX10 Mk2 would be the ultimate camera if Sony adds 50+ Mbit/s, 4K, and mechanically faster zoom.

C'mon Ungermann, we know you better than that. No matter what they did, you'd find something wrong. I don't think I've ever read a post from you where you were happy with an upcoming or just-released camera. ;)

Ken Ross 07-22-2014 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira (Post 25936881)
I'm sure markr041 will be getting an FZ1000 immediately. As for Ken Ross, he'll skip it but he might get the Panasonic LX8 immediately. Mark might get the LX8 at the same time as Ken. Joking aside, it'll be hard for anyone with an AX100 already to consider the FZ1000.

Mark and I are actually the same person. We (I) have just been trying to find the right time to let the cat out of the bag.

Ungermann 07-22-2014 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Ross (Post 25946898)
C'mon Ungermann, we know you better than that. No matter what they did, you'd find something wrong. I don't think I've ever read a post from you where you were happy with an upcoming or just-released camera. ;)

I can understand limitations like slow (mechanically) lens on the RX10 or slow (optically) lens on the FZ1000, I even can get that 4k60p supposedly needs more power than the AX100 and FZ1000 can deliver. By why no 4k24p on the FZ1000? It requires less power than 4k30p, not more. These arbitrary decisions by product management make me mad. At least we don't have 24p packaged into 30i anymore.

James Jimmy 07-22-2014 04:36 PM

I think that the most significant difference is that the AX100 lens system includes ND (neutral density) filters. I think this makes a huge difference in bright conditions. It is very difficult to keep the shutter speed at 1/60th. You could close down the aperture but once you do that your image will start to degrade once you get past about f8 due to the diffraction limit. Adding ND filters in front of the lens is not a convenient solution.

Paulo Teixeira 07-22-2014 09:00 PM

Their are high quality "variable" ND filters out their. The only inconvenience is to take it off if shooting in environments with less than ideal lighting. Heliopan have gotten a lot of praise but Tiffen and Singh-Ray are also good. It also protects your lens but on the other hand, it's makes the camera slightly bigger and slightly more expensive.


hatchback 07-22-2014 09:52 PM

ND filters are essential for shooting outdoors, no question. Having them built in is a huge convenience worth paying for.

Ungermann 07-22-2014 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paulo Teixeira (Post 25966202)
Their are high quality "variable" ND filters out their.

I have one, a $50 Chinese one. It worked fine until it gathered dust inside, now the image lost resolution. OTOH, some may say it looks more like 16mm footage.

Mattias Burling 07-22-2014 11:58 PM

Variable NDs are a bit anoying but since you would pretty much leave it on these cameras its less of a pain. I use the magnetic Xume adapters so I can move them quickly.

On the topic of cheap vs expensive I have had zero luck with cheaper once until now... :)

Did a shootout,


flintyplus 07-23-2014 02:24 AM

Eek i have pre-ordered one,may need advice as i shall be editing in 1920x1080P,what is the easiest way to record in 4K and downconvert the footage to 1920x1080P for editing,i dont use the expensive complicated softwares :eek:

Ken Ross 07-23-2014 08:03 AM

Wow Chris, coming over to the dark side? I'm sure you'll enjoy the camera.

As for editing, most of the editors simply allow you to set up a 1080p project and then automatically resize your 4K file to 1080p when you drop on to the timeline.

Which software are you using? There may be someone here using it too.

flintyplus 07-23-2014 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Ross (Post 25974002)
Wow Chris, coming over to the dark side? I'm sure you'll enjoy the camera.

As for editing, most of the editors simply allow you to set up a 1080p project and then automatically resize your 4K file to 1080p when you drop on to the timeline.

Which software are you using? There may be someone here using it too.

Ken thanks mate,i am only using Magix and Coral prox 7 at present,i tend to be a bit slow with the advanced ones :( As for coming over to the Dark i think like you i am not a Brand
fanatic and use any make if the product suits me, Cheers again.
One thing this or any 4K cam or camera will do is get me close ups like some of this 4080mm equivalent content. https://vimeo.com/101511758

flintyplus 07-25-2014 04:28 PM

Will i have to use a SDXC U3 card for 4K video or will SanDisk SDSDXPA-064G-X46 64 GB Extreme Pro UHS-I SDHC 95Mbps Memory Cards suffice.

markr041 07-25-2014 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flintyplus (Post 26043570)
Will i have to use a SDXC U3 card for 4K video or will SanDisk SDSDXPA-064G-X46 64 GB Extreme Pro UHS-I SDHC 95Mbps Memory Cards suffice.


On the GH4, which claims also to require SDXC U3 for 4K, I have used that exact Sandisk Extreme Pro card for all of my 4K videos without any problems. That same Sandisk card also worked for shooting RAW with the BMPCC (it is the only card that does), which has a much higher bitrate that the Panasonic 4K.

flintyplus 07-25-2014 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by markr041 (Post 26044266)
On the GH4, which claims also to require SDXC U3 for 4K, I have used that exact Sandisk Extreme Pro card for all of my 4K videos without any problems. That same Sandisk card also worked for shooting RAW with the BMPCC (it is the only card that does), which has a much higher bitrate that the Panasonic 4K.

Ok thanks so i should be ok with the SanDisk SDSDXPA-064G-X46 64 GB Extreme Pro UHS-I SDHC Memory Card i have

markr041 07-25-2014 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flintyplus (Post 26044458)
Ok thanks so i should be ok with the SanDisk SDSDXPA-064G-X46 64 GB Extreme Pro UHS-I SDHC Memory Card i have


Yes, but do test it out.

SD90 07-25-2014 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flintyplus (Post 26043570)
Will i have to use a SDXC U3 card for 4K video or will SanDisk SDSDXPA-064G-X46 64 GB Extreme Pro UHS-I SDHC 95Mbps Memory Cards suffice.

On the GH4, if you don't use a U3 card you can get freeze ups and/or card error messages when shooting 1080 in slo mo (96fps) or 1080@200mbps, but the Extreme Pro U1 card is sufficient for shooting in 4K. I personally like to shoot slo mo now and then so two months ago I bit he bullet and paid $125 for a 32 GB SanDisk U3 card. In this 1.5 hour presentation the Panasonic rep talks about cards at some point:

flintyplus 07-26-2014 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SD90 (Post 26044802)
On the GH4, if you don't use a U3 card you can get freeze ups and/or card error messages when shooting 1080 in slo mo (96fps) or 1080@200mbps, but the Extreme Pro U1 card is sufficient for shooting in 4K. I personally like to shoot slo mo now and then so two months ago I bit he bullet and paid $125 for a 32 GB SanDisk U3 card. In this 1.5 hour presentation the Panasonic rep talks about cards at some point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6mKJyhtCO0

Thank you for the info,To be safe i am considering getting a http://www.mymemory.co.uk/SDXC/SanDi...UHS-II-280MB_s of these which should be fine and if the SDXC USH-95 mb/s works ok i will have 2,does that make sense.Also will my integral card reader that i use be ok for reading 4K from the cards.

SD90 07-26-2014 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flintyplus (Post 26050330)
Thank you for the info,To be safe i am considering getting a http://www.mymemory.co.uk/SDXC/SanDi...UHS-II-280MB_s

Yep that's a top quality, ultra fast writing U3 card. Same one I use, except I have the 32 GB version. On page 17 of the FZ1000 owners manual Panasonic specifies U3 cards for 4K recording: http://service.us.panasonic.com/oper.../DMCFZ1000.pdf
However, as others have mentioned here as well as on DVX-user, you may find your Extreme Pro U1 card works too nearly all of the time. I have no experience with card readers as I transfer images via USB cable or using the SD card slot that's built into my laptop.

flintyplus 07-26-2014 03:41 AM

Ok thanks SD90 and Mark,i have to use card readers on my editing Pc as there are no card slots and i prefer it to connecting my cameras via their usb cables.

jogiba 07-26-2014 06:00 AM

I have been using the 128GB Transcend U3 SDXC card since day one with my GH4 in 4K and 1080p 200mb/s without any problems .

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5225/...889e1ff9_b.jpg

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...5_w60mb_s.html

flintyplus 07-26-2014 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SD90 (Post 26050882)
Yep that's a top quality, ultra fast writing U3 card. Same one I use, except I have the 32 GB version. On page 17 of the FZ1000 owners manual Panasonic specifies U3 cards for 4K recording: http://service.us.panasonic.com/oper.../DMCFZ1000.pdf
However, as others have mentioned here as well as on DVX-user, you may find your Extreme Pro U1 card works too nearly all of the time. I have no experience with card readers as I transfer images via USB cable or using the SD card slot that's built into my laptop.

One thing i hope i am mistaken on page 21 it says
Creative Video Mode (P34)
Records a motion picture with the aperture value and the shutter speed you specify. In this
recording mode, all the motion picture functions become available. For example, you can
record motion pictures in 4K
Does this meen for video 4k or normal HD you have to set the aperture and shutter all the time,there is no auto mode for video.:confused:

Ken Ross 07-26-2014 10:01 AM

Chris, every Panny I've ever seen has a full auto mode. But I'm sure you'll get better video quality by overriding some of the auto settings.

Further, the manual mode may be 'part manual' in that it may allow you to set an aperture and then it will automatically set the shutter speed. You can probably also set the shutter speed and it will automatically set the aperture.

Edit: Just looked at the manual and it does seem to imply that 4K is only engaged in Creative Movie Mode. But as I said before, I believe you can set one parameter and the camera will set the others. I can't go through the manual at this point, but I think you'll be OK.


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