Pro Version of the Sony AX100 Announced Officially - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 29 Old 07-29-2014, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Pro Version of the Sony AX100 Announced Officially

http://www.sony.co.uk/pro/press/pr-s...p=scl-cc-10324


Key features different from the AX100: 10-bit 4:2:2 HD, xlr inputs, SDI output, picture profiles, two sd card slots and, get this, a large eye cup! Hint to those AX100 viewfinder complainers...


Oh, the camera is "upgradeable" to 4K at extra cost. No details.
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post #2 of 29 Old 07-29-2014, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post
http://www.sony.co.uk/pro/press/pr-s...p=scl-cc-10324


Key features different from the AX100: 10-bit 4:2:2 HD, xlr inputs, SDI output, picture profiles, two sd card slots and, get this, a large eye cup! Hint to those AX100 viewfinder complainers...


Oh, the camera is "upgradeable" to 4K at extra cost. No details.

The biggest drawback here is the promise of 4K at some point for some price. I can't imagine why they simply didn't offer this from the get go at whatever price was necessary. Of course this does make you wonder if it won't be 4K @60p.
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post #3 of 29 Old 07-29-2014, 02:08 PM
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Still, if priced right and the upgrade to 4K is reasonable, this is interesting IMO. I will follow this story.
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post #4 of 29 Old 07-29-2014, 02:14 PM
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> 10-bit 4:2:2 HD

This is AVC-Intra in a pocket-cam format. Nice. How far the industry went from HDV of yore.

> Oh, the camera is "upgradeable" to 4K at extra cost. No details.

I guess they figured that 8-bit 4K @ 25 or 30 fps with 4:2:0 just does not cut it.
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post #5 of 29 Old 07-29-2014, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post
> 10-bit 4:2:2 HD

This is AVC-Intra in a pocket-cam format. Nice. How far the industry went from HDV of yore.

> Oh, the camera is "upgradeable" to 4K at extra cost. No details.

I guess they figured that 8-bit 4K @ 25 or 30 fps with 4:2:0 just does not cut it.
Canon has been king for a long time now with having the smallest professional camcorder for HD broadcast with the XF100 and its 4:2:2.
The XF200 is allso nice but as far as I know it cant be upgraded to 4K.
So this could be the new weapon of choise for light weight reporting.
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post #6 of 29 Old 07-29-2014, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattias Burling View Post
Canon has been king for a long time now with having the smallest professional camcorder for HD broadcast with the XF100 and its 4:2:2.
The XF100 is MPEG-2 8-bit. We are talking about AVC 10-bit. This seems to be the smallest camcorder that offers this feature now (does the GH4 offer 10-bit 4:2:2 ?)
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post #7 of 29 Old 07-29-2014, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post
The XF100 is MPEG-2 8-bit. We are talking about AVC 10-bit. This seems to be the smallest camcorder that offers this feature now (does the GH4 offer 10-bit 4:2:2 ?)

http://vimeo.com/92621044
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post #8 of 29 Old 07-29-2014, 06:47 PM
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External recorder does not count ;-)
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post #9 of 29 Old 07-29-2014, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ungermann View Post
The XF100 is MPEG-2 8-bit. We are talking about AVC 10-bit. This seems to be the smallest camcorder that offers this feature now (does the GH4 offer 10-bit 4:2:2 ?)
It looks like a winner... On paper.
More often than not the spec world and the real life shooting world don't match, Imo.
I hope that this isn't such a case because if it is all it claims and good at it I and alot of people I know would be interested in it for a b/c/ultra light-cam.
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post #10 of 29 Old 07-29-2014, 11:01 PM
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Great find Mark.

Gotta agree with Ken, can't see the point in releasing without key features, as in 4K.

Although the recording spec looks a bit like one of the AVC's, it is XAVC and not XAVC S like the AX100. XAVC is scalable and covers a number of bit depths, resolutions and different chroma sampling.

Once this camera is on 4K, it should be a killer. Although it will be interesting to see how it compares to the AX100 when shooting 4K for HD output.

Cheers,
Dave.
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post #11 of 29 Old 07-29-2014, 11:44 PM
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I would think they would sell that new eye cup separately, might be something for the AX100 owners that had a problem with the EVF in bright Sunlight.
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post #12 of 29 Old 07-30-2014, 05:26 AM
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I would prefer a 4K version of the full frame VG900 with the 12mp A7s sensor (50-409600 iso ) to use with my full frame Zeiss FE primes etc.

Last edited by jogiba; 07-30-2014 at 05:34 AM.
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post #13 of 29 Old 07-30-2014, 07:24 AM
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Joe, I'm wondering if Sony isn't done with the NEX-VG line. I agree though, a 4K VG would be very nice. I'm just not sure Sony sees a market for this anymore.
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post #14 of 29 Old 07-30-2014, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Joe, I'm wondering if Sony isn't done with the NEX-VG line. I agree though, a 4K VG would be very nice. I'm just not sure Sony sees a market for this anymore.
Ken, the A7s body is too small for internal 4K recording but the VG900 is not and I am sure a full frame VG900 with 12mp A7s sensor and internal 4K with the new power zoom 28-135mm FE OSS lens would be in demand .
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post #15 of 29 Old 07-30-2014, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Two improvements

This picture shows two interesting things:


1. The size of the eyecup.


2. The new placement of the focus magnifier button - now easily reachable by the right hand.
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post #16 of 29 Old 07-30-2014, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post
This picture shows two interesting things:


1. The size of the eyecup.


2. The new placement of the focus magnifier button - now easily reachable by the right hand.
Who says Sony doesn't listen.
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post #17 of 29 Old 07-30-2014, 11:23 AM
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Just a thought on 4K for this camera. If it's doing XAVC for HD, will it be XAVC for 4K. As the bitrates from other Sony cameras doing 4K XAVC, may be a little too high for SD cards.

Cheers,
Dave.
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post #18 of 29 Old 07-30-2014, 11:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Harry View Post
Just a thought on 4K for this camera. If it's doing XAVC for HD, will it be XAVC for 4K. As the bitrates from other Sony cameras doing 4K XAVC, may be a little too high for SD cards.

Cheers,
Dave.

Yes, 60p and 10-bit and 4:2:2 for 4K requires a very high bitrate (500-600Mbps for intra-frame, maybe 200 Mbps long-GOP). The PXW-Z100, which does this, needs special cards (XQD). They do not fit into sd card slots. So I am very curious what implementation of 4K Sony will have. This is the reason I thought the pro version of the AX100 would not do 4K (the sd card constraint).

Last edited by markr041; 07-30-2014 at 11:47 AM.
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post #19 of 29 Old 07-30-2014, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by markr041 View Post
Yes, 60p and 10-bit and 4:2:2 for 4K requires a very high bitrate (500-600Mbps for intra-frame, maybe 200 Mbps long-GOP). The PXW-Z100, which does this, needs special cards (XQD). They do not fit into sd card slots. So I am very curious what implementation of 4K Sony will have. This is the reason I thought the pro version of the AX100 would not do 4K (the sd card constraint).
Hi Mark.

Yes, it's very interesting. Although I think that Sony are doing great things and immediately furthering the form factor of the 100. But, if this new camera does not do 50/60p, in any flavour of XAVC or S, at 4K, it would seem a little pointless. Although if it does, this could be fantastic news for the AX100. As it could be something that could be implemented in the AX via a firmware update, as the guts of both cameras would appear to be the same.

Either way, it's exciting times again with Sony

Cheers
Dave.
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post #20 of 29 Old 07-30-2014, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Harry View Post
Just a thought on 4K for this camera. If it's doing XAVC for HD, will it be XAVC for 4K. As the bitrates from other Sony cameras doing 4K XAVC, may be a little too high for SD cards.

Cheers,
Dave.
Not for UHS-II SDXC cards.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...l/prm/alsVwDtl
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search...554+3953047286


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post #21 of 29 Old 07-30-2014, 06:26 PM
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Yes. On face value that XC card would fit the bill for high bitrates. But in practice many advertised specs don't work with certain hardware, BM as an example. Different implementations of hardware also react differently to others, bus speed and overhead etc. As for micro p2, I have never used it and don't know anything about it and don't know if it is a compatible extension of the SD format, although the form factor looks the same. Maybe software and firmware can take care of this.

If the new camera or an update to the 100 could take account of these cards for 600Mb recording. Then this would be a real game changer.

Only time will tell.

Cheers,
Dave.
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post #22 of 29 Old 07-31-2014, 04:45 AM
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UHS-II has an extra row of pins and the only camera so far that supports that is the Fiji X-T1. It's just a matter of time before 4K 60p cameras come out with UHS-II support. There have been some 4K GH4 videos on youtube that used the Panasonic UHS-II P-2 SDXC cards but that is overkill since the lower cost UHS-I U3 cards works just as well.



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post #23 of 29 Old 07-31-2014, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jogiba View Post
There have been some 4K GH4 videos on youtube that used the Panasonic UHS-II P-2 SDXC cards but that is overkill since the lower cost UHS-I U3 cards works just as well.
Micro P2? It is so disingenuous of them calling a little SD card "P2", because they explicitly stated more than once that P2 has a bunch of regular SD cards inside a hardened shell and a special controller to equalize load, throughput and wear. Is this Micro P2 made of titanium?

By being a member of SD consortium Panasonic inadvertently helped killing its P2 ripoff just like IBM did 30 years ago with the PC. Ah well, Panasonic had a good decade.

Jogiba, the second table below is borderline useless - not your fault, but the freaking marketing people. All they had to say besides bus differences is that UHS class number is X * 10 MB/s , whereas traditional Class number is X * 1 MB/s.

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post #24 of 29 Old 07-31-2014, 09:04 AM
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microP2 Card, The World's First*1 UHS-II Compliant Professional Memory Card. Bringing Higher Efficiency, Reliability and Speed to Broadcasting Workflows.
Panasonic has developed microP2 card solid-state recording media for broadcast use with the same size as the SD Memory Card. While dramatically reducing the size and cost of the current P2 card (which is PC card size), the new microP2 card offers the same level of data capacity (32 GB/64 GB) as well as high transfer speed, superb reliability and excellent security. A Memory Card Adapter for use in devices*2 equipped with the current P2 card slot, and a Memory Card Drive are also available. This provides a smooth transition to a microP2 card-based workflow with superior operability.
http://pro-av.panasonic.net/en/sales_o/p2/microP2/
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post #25 of 29 Old 07-31-2014, 09:48 AM
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Marketing bla-bla. As they confirm themselves, their Micro P2 adapter assepts regular SDHC cards.
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post #26 of 29 Old 08-01-2014, 08:54 AM - Thread Starter
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post #27 of 29 Old 08-01-2014, 09:03 AM
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Good read,
Im verry interested in upcoming shootouts to see the improved highlight handeling.
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post #28 of 29 Old 08-01-2014, 10:58 AM
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He-he, It took Sony only a decade to steal the four-way joystick from Panasonic.

Overall, I adore this camera. I like the chunky looks - Sony has always been great in terms of style, unlike Panasonic. I like the body size, the sensor size, the recording format, and all the nice pro touches like the XLR connectors, flip-up eyepiece, fine gamma controls, etc.

Too bad I have no real use for it. I have five cameras and of these the one I use the most is the Kodak Playsport ZX5.
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post #29 of 29 Old 08-04-2014, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by jogiba View Post
I would prefer a 4K version of the full frame VG900 with the 12mp A7s sensor (50-409600 iso ) to use with my full frame Zeiss FE primes etc.
Hi

I have bought a VG 900 with SAL 2875 F-2.8. I think I am not using properly but its a disappointment. Can you suggest some settings that I might be missing when it comes to low light. @Joi gba
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