Philip Blooms Sony A7s Review - AVS Forum
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Old 08-06-2014, 06:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Philip Blooms Sony A7s Review

Popcorn is ready.
http://vimeo.com/102448889
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:22 AM
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LOL! That's wild.

Maybe it's a sign of what's to come in the future for video without lights.
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Old 08-06-2014, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Yas, that low light cabability is pure nightvision
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Old 08-06-2014, 02:26 PM
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Well, as Mark have noted, Philip Bloom is not a great grader, but his reviews are very informative. Interesting to see a comparison with the AX100 - it is literally night and day.
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Old 08-06-2014, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, as Mark have noted, Philip Bloom is not a great grader, but his reviews are very informative. Interesting to see a comparison with the AX100 - it is literally night and day.
I would say he grades fine, its not my taste but that does not equal bad.
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Old 08-06-2014, 05:46 PM
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I would say he grades fine, its not my taste but that does not equal bad.

Actually, Bloom has admitted he is not a good color grader. It is true that we do not have a standard for judging grading (except when someone tries to mimic reality), as we can always say we just don't like the "art" (not my taste). But none of Bloom's "art" that I have seen matches the "art" I see in cinema, including cinema at "art" houses. It is mostly just ugly, and calls attention to itself. But that's my view, and maybe Bloom's. In any case, it makes his reviews less useful in terms of video evidence when the videos are altered to some odd taste. What he did with the sample review BMPCC and the GH4 videos was a crime. He is a good videographer (and a fun reviewer), so it's a shame.

Last edited by markr041; 08-06-2014 at 06:08 PM.
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Old 08-06-2014, 10:03 PM - Thread Starter
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I would say his reviews are the most usefull on the internet simply because he uses the gear he is talking about. So few are.
So even if we dont have the same taste and he and I have completly different views on whats concidered an "issue" it gives me great info. Even reviews where he doesnt like the camera gives me enough feeling for the camera that I think I would like it and can use it in my decission.

And once again regarding the grading, he beeing modest doesnt equal bad either. Like you said Mark its Art, his videos as well as yours and mine. Some like yours, some mine and alot of people like his.
And he has done some that I thought looked amazing, not this time unfortunately, accept the Now I Can See footage, that was dreamy.


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But none of Bloom's "art" that I have seen matches the "art" I see in cinema, including cinema at "art" houses.
I would never just try to mimic what I see others do, dont see the point in that other than for educational purposes. IMO its better to find your own style and do what you enjoy.
There is no standard or right way of doing it, the stuff you have seen in Cinema and art houses is no more or less right/art/true/real/what ever than Blooms videos.


Now regarding the A7s.
Im glad I didnt buy it. I had high hopes for it as I did for the GH4 but they are simply not for me.
But I did finally make a decision on 4K camera yesterday and bought it as well so Im good.

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Old 08-07-2014, 07:20 AM
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...I did finally make a decision on 4K camera yesterday and bought it as well so Im good.
Don't keep us in suspense - what did you get?
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Old 08-07-2014, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Don't keep us in suspense - what did you get?
I know that Im one of the few in this forum that would make that decision but for me, how I shoot and what I consider great IQ it was clear.
Here is my unboxing,

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Old 08-07-2014, 07:41 AM
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I would say his reviews are the most usefull on the internet simply because he uses the gear he is talking about. So few are.
So even if we dont have the same taste and he and I have completly different views on whats concidered an "issue" it gives me great info. Even reviews where he doesnt like the camera gives me enough feeling for the camera that I think I would like it and can use it in my decission.

And once again regarding the grading, he beeing modest doesnt equal bad either. Like you said Mark its Art, his videos as well as yours and mine. Some like yours, some mine and alot of people like his.
And he has done some that I thought looked amazing, not this time unfortunately, accept the Now I Can See footage, that was dreamy.




I would never just try to mimic what I see others do, dont see the point in that other than for educational purposes. IMO its better to find your own style and do what you enjoy.
There is no standard or right way of doing it, the stuff you have seen in Cinema and art houses is no more or less right/art/true/real/what ever than Blooms videos.


Now regarding the A7s.
Im glad I didnt buy it. I had high hopes for it as I did for the GH4 but they are simply not for me.
But I did finally make a decision on 4K camera yesterday and bought it as well so Im good.

That's all fine, but I am talking about his "example" videos that are part of his reviews. Idiosyncratic, heavily-graded video clips are not helpful for judging what the camera can do. He can do his "art" for his paid clients, whom I think he is really trying to appeal to with his examples. While I agree that conformity is the enemy of creativity, I disagree that there are no standards in art; that is preposterous. I
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Old 08-07-2014, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Mattias Burling View Post
I would say his reviews are the most usefull on the internet simply because he uses the gear he is talking about. So few are.
So even if we dont have the same taste and he and I have completly different views on whats concidered an "issue" it gives me great info. Even reviews where he doesnt like the camera gives me enough feeling for the camera that I think I would like it and can use it in my decission.

And once again regarding the grading, he beeing modest doesnt equal bad either. Like you said Mark its Art, his videos as well as yours and mine. Some like yours, some mine and alot of people like his.
And he has done some that I thought looked amazing, not this time unfortunately, accept the Now I Can See footage, that was dreamy.

I would never just try to mimic what I see others do, dont see the point in that other than for educational purposes. IMO its better to find your own style and do what you enjoy.
There is no standard or right way of doing it, the stuff you have seen in Cinema and art houses is no more or less right/art/true/real/what ever than Blooms videos.

That's all fine, but I am talking about his "example" videos that are part of his reviews. Idiosyncratic, heavily-graded video clips are not helpful for judging what the camera can do. He can do his "art" for his paid clients, whom I think he is really trying to appeal to with his examples. While I agree that conformity is the enemy of creativity, I disagree that there are no standards in art; that is preposterous.
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Old 08-07-2014, 08:02 AM - Thread Starter
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That's all fine, but I am talking about his "example" videos that are part of his reviews. Idiosyncratic, heavily-graded video clips are not helpful for judging what the camera can do. He can do his "art" for his paid clients, whom I think he is really trying to appeal to with his examples. While I agree that conformity is the enemy of creativity, I disagree that there are no standards in art; that is preposterous. I
Thats my point. I still get more out of his heavy graded footage because he uses it for real, in the world, where there is motion, and not just a cat or in the backyard. And I feel experienced enough to know how it would be ungraded and if in doubt I can watch some ungraded cat videos from somebody else.
And again he does his "art" his way and you Mark do your "art" your way, they are both fine but wont suit everyone.


Regarding standards in art we are just going to have to agree to disagree becuse to me its like you are standing on the North Pole demanding to know which way is North, it makes no sence.
Which is of course fine, I respect everybodys personal opinion
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Old 08-07-2014, 11:55 AM
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Art, schmart, if I'm a camera maker and want Bloom to review my camera, I'd say 'Do it verbally and forget video examples from the camera'.

I'm sorry, I can't imagine too many people being excited about the video (forget his verbiage) and making their decision to buy based on his posted video. I feel the same way about the Camera Store reviews. I love to watch their video reviews, very entertaining, but when it comes to video examples from the cameras they're reviewing, good grief.
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Old 08-07-2014, 12:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Thats strange to me, I would never in a million years buy a camera after just reading specs. I want to see it preform and under different circumstances, both in videos like Blooms and also the type of art that you do Ken.
The more info I can get the better, both time and money wasted imo to by a camera blind or after just reading about it, but to each their own.
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Old 08-07-2014, 02:02 PM
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> Even reviews where he doesnt like the camera gives me enough feeling for the camera
> that I think I would like it and can use it in my decission.

I rather prefer his negative opinion to positive one. The last time I had bad experience with a camera was when I bought the HM100 based on his review. His high-contrast grading was kind of fishy at that time, I asked him whether he tried to hide noise and insufficient sensitivity but he replied that it was artistic choice. And he suspiciously shot either from a tripod or a camerabag or when handheld he shot full wide. And sure it was: when I bought the HM100 I found it was bad in low light and its image stabilizer was practically non-existent. Since then I watch reviews - not just his, but all other reviews - purely for entertainment value and maybe for some gotchas when operating the camera.
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Old 08-07-2014, 02:17 PM - Thread Starter
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> Even reviews where he doesnt like the camera gives me enough feeling for the camera
> that I think I would like it and can use it in my decission.

I rather prefer his negative opinion to positive one. The last time I had bad experience with a camera was when I bought the HM100 based on his review. His high-contrast grading was kind of fishy at that time, I asked him whether he tried to hide noise and insufficient sensitivity but he replied that it was artistic choice. And he suspiciously shot either from a tripod or a camerabag or when handheld he shot full wide. And sure it was: when I bought the HM100 I found it was bad in low light and its image stabilizer was practically non-existent. Since then I watch reviews - not just his, but all other reviews - purely for entertainment value and maybe for some gotchas when operating the camera.
Thats the way to go for sure.
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Old 08-07-2014, 02:59 PM
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Thats the way to go for sure.
Correct - ignore his videos.
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Old 08-07-2014, 03:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Correct - ignore his videos.
LOL, you really have a hard time with peoples right to their own opinion
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Old 08-07-2014, 04:51 PM
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Thats strange to me, I would never in a million years buy a camera after just reading specs. I want to see it preform and under different circumstances, both in videos like Blooms and also the type of art that you do Ken.
The more info I can get the better, both time and money wasted imo to by a camera blind or after just reading about it, but to each their own.
Mattias, my problem is the camera footage has been so altered, it gives me no real idea as to what the camera is capable of. I'd much rather see straight footage out of the camera and then anyone can apply their art to that. Maybe I'm crazy...don't answer that.

And yes, I'd never buy on specs alone either.
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Old 08-07-2014, 05:24 PM
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Straight footage is always going to be a more beneficial way to assess a camera's performance, as long as the footage as been shot properly for exposure etc.

Phil's ability to grade, really has nothing to do with anything. It's just his interpretation, just as it would be for anyone, it's neither right or wrong as an artistic expression.

Regardless of his motivation, he knows what he is doing and puts great effort into his tests, backed by many years of experience. While I may or may not agree with his appraisals of any given camera, he does stress test and push his tests.

Besides, would anyone serious about a camera's performance want to watch a test done by a total novice, or by someone with experience.

It maybe worth contacting Phil and asking him if he wouldn't mind uploading some native files.


Cheers,
Dave.
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Old 08-07-2014, 06:01 PM
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Straight footage is always going to be a more beneficial way to assess a camera's performance, as long as the footage as been shot properly for exposure etc.

Phil's ability to grade, really has nothing to do with anything. It's just his interpretation, just as it would be for anyone, it's neither right or wrong as an artistic expression.

Regardless of his motivation, he knows what he is doing and puts great effort into his tests, backed by many years of experience. While I may or may not agree with his appraisals of any given camera, he does stress test and push his tests.

Besides, would anyone serious about a camera's performance want to watch a test done by a total novice, or by someone with experience.

It maybe worth contacting Phil and asking him if he wouldn't mind uploading some native files.


Cheers,
Dave.

I agree well-exposed, and maybe even well-composed, native files will be more informative for judging a camera's capabilities, especially compared with heavily-altered variants. And, of course there is no "right or wrong" with art. But there is mediocre art and good art. And there are standards to judge that. And opinions, or judgments, can be informed and uninformed. The internet does not discriminate (Mozart=Salieri, Titian=Hank Ketcham, P. Bloom=Wes Anderson). But we can try.

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Old 08-07-2014, 06:27 PM
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Besides, would anyone serious about a camera's performance want to watch a test done by a total novice, or by someone with experience.
Depending on what do you want to see: a pretty video showcasing the places, the people and the videographer's skills, or the camera capabilities. A novice who shakes the camera right and left, shoots in dark alleys, records onto built-in mic, does not use manual focus etc might point to certain deficiencies like excessive rolling shutter artefacts, bad sensitivity, bad mic insulation from hand's rubbing, slow or impresize autofocus faster than a pro who can work around these deficiencies.

On the other hand I found about the EOS M's horrible 720p mode only after I bought the camera because no one who showcased its video capabilities bothered to shoot in this mode.
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Old 08-08-2014, 12:31 AM - Thread Starter
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I want both.
I want to see what the camera can do in the hands of the novice filming his/her cat and the experienced cinematographer that pushes it to the limit.
I would never buy a camera based only on graded footage from Bloom nor on ungraded hand held backyard shoots. Even if I dont grade as much as he does it helps me see how far the codec can be pushed, thats good to know in for example low light situations.


With the AX100 I remember it beeing the oposite. Lots of straight footage but no one did anything to push it, so I had to download and finaly get my hands on it before I could get a grip of its preformance.


Another benefit of not just reading specs and/or only watch a certain type of reviews is the little things. They all do it their own way and I almost always pick up some new information that I can ad to making my decision.


Ungerman had a great example, he bought a camera based on one reviewer and was not pleased. Maybe some of the others would have brought his atention to the problem.
Take my new camera for example (bmpc) Bloom was very dissapointed by it, still he provided some information that helped me coming to the conclusion that I would like it.
After a while you get used to a reviewer so you can filter what they say and do.
An example of the top of my head is when Bloom said that the BMCC and BMPCC have to go in a cage. It didnt scare me since he would cage an AX100 and say its essential, and my style of shooting does not require it and true enough a year later I still use them with no cage or exessive accessories (I dont even need spare batteries).


So my advice, dont buy a camera after reading only specs, watching one review or based on what the sales guy says. Gather as much info as possible and its less likely that you will get dissapointed.


/M
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Old 08-08-2014, 12:36 AM - Thread Starter
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It maybe worth contacting Phil and asking him if he wouldn't mind uploading some native files.
.
He did upload some 4K Cine gamma 2/ S-Log 2 for download.
http://vimeo.com/99739214
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Old 08-08-2014, 04:53 AM
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Depending on what do you want to see: a pretty video showcasing the places, the people and the videographer's skills, or the camera capabilities. A novice who shakes the camera right and left, shoots in dark alleys, records onto built-in mic, does not use manual focus etc might point to certain deficiencies like excessive rolling shutter artefacts, bad sensitivity, bad mic insulation from hand's rubbing, slow or impresize autofocus faster than a pro who can work around these deficiencies.

On the other hand I found about the EOS M's horrible 720p mode only after I bought the camera because no one who showcased its video capabilities bothered to shoot in this mode.

If i wasn't clear, the point i was making is that it is very unlikely that a novice would be able to test a camera to the extent that an enthusiast or professional would appreciate.

A camera is less likely to be setup incorrectly by a professional, and its features are likely to be understood better by someone with a lot of camera experience.


Cheers,
Dave.
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Old 08-08-2014, 04:54 AM
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I agree well-exposed, and maybe even well-composed, native files will be more informative for judging a camera's capabilities, especially compared with heavily-altered variants. And, of course there is no "right or wrong" with art. But there is mediocre art and good art. And there are standards to judge that. And opinions, or judgments, can be informed and uninformed. The internet does not discriminate (Mozart=Salieri, Titian=Hank Ketcham, P. Bloom=Wes Anderson). But we can try.
Don't even go there with the whole art thing
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Old 08-08-2014, 06:56 AM
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On the other hand I found about the EOS M's horrible 720p mode only after I bought the camera because no one who showcased its video capabilities bothered to shoot in this mode.

While it is true that no one shoots with the EOS M in 720p mode, you asked me personally to shoot and post to this forum a video in this mode, and you commented on how poor it was (which is correct).


The point is that we here in this forum provide examples from many cameras, have some experience, and are willing to help by trying things out and reporting back. We do not have to solely rely on "professional" reviewers, who usually have a commercial agenda that is not always consistent with what we need to know.
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Old 08-08-2014, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
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While it is true that no one shoots with the EOS M in 720p mode, you asked me personally to shoot and post to this forum a video in this mode, and you commented on how poor it was (which is correct).


The point is that we here in this forum provide examples from many cameras, have some experience, and are willing to help by trying things out and reporting back. We do not have to solely rely on "professional" reviewers, who usually have a commercial agenda that is not always consistent with what we need to know.
Ahh, so you do agree after all, its better to get various opinions, then what was the "ignore his videos" thing about?
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Old 08-09-2014, 11:40 AM
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I know that Im one of the few in this forum that would make that decision but for me, how I shoot and what I consider great IQ it was clear...
Super 35 sensor, 13+ stops of DR, no rolling shutter and UHD RAW below $3000? Great choice. Congratulations!

Bill
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Old 08-09-2014, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Super 35 sensor, 13+ stops of DR, no rolling shutter and UHD RAW below $3000? Great choice. Congratulations!

Bill
Thanks, its more like 12+ of DR compared to my BMCC and BMPCC but still, Im verry happy

Another great thing is 4K in various flavors if Prores, on the bmcc the 2.5K is Raw only.
Editing my first little test video as we speak.
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