4K 60p Panasonic GH5 thread - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 661 Old 01-04-2017, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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4K 60p Panasonic GH5 thread


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post #2 of 661 Old 01-04-2017, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
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post #3 of 661 Old 01-04-2017, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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post #4 of 661 Old 01-04-2017, 11:38 AM
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New 4K Modes

This is what I am excited about:

4K 50/60fps internal recording in 4:2:0 8-bit at 150Mbps in IPB using H.265 recording. H265! So that is like 300 Mbps H264.

4K 50/60fps external recording in 4:2:2 10-bit (with no internal recording). Yay! my Shogun Inferno can record this.

And, for HDR: Hybrid Log Gamma for 4K HDR video.

Source: http://www.newsshooter.com/2017/01/0...-up-to-180fps/

Also a REC709 LUT built into the camera for seeing what VLog L looks like in the field.
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post #5 of 661 Old 01-04-2017, 11:43 AM
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Some annoyances fixed!

1. HDMI mechanical lock in the box.

2. Auto ISO in Manual mode, with EV compensation.

3. And, get this: an internal mic so that the IBIS noise is electronically cancelled when using the camera stereo mic!
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post #6 of 661 Old 01-04-2017, 12:19 PM
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HLG is 17.6 stops. Unless the camera actually has that much DR, it won't fill the 10 bit data buffer as completely as VLog. If you want HDR footage straight from the camera then HLG is the way to go but if you want graded footage, VLog is the better choice for HDR.
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post #7 of 661 Old 01-04-2017, 01:43 PM
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Joe, was that Oregon video shot on the GH5? That was a bit unclear.
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post #8 of 661 Old 01-04-2017, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post
This is what I am excited about:

4K 50/60fps internal recording in 4:2:0 8-bit at 150Mbps in IPB using H.265 recording. H265! So that is like 300 Mbps H264.

4K 50/60fps external recording in 4:2:2 10-bit (with no internal recording). Yay! my Shogun Inferno can record this.

And, for HDR: Hybrid Log Gamma for 4K HDR video.

Source: http://www.newsshooter.com/2017/01/0...-up-to-180fps/

Also a REC709 LUT built into the camera for seeing what VLog L looks like in the field.
Unfortunately I'd have to go back to the NX1 days of transcoding.

FCP doesn't do native H265 editing the last time I looked. This might force Apple and some others to reconsider support.
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post #9 of 661 Old 01-04-2017, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Ken, they did not say it was shot with the GH5 .


Maybe the used the Panasonic Varicam 35
http://pro-av.panasonic.net/en/varicam/35/
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post #10 of 661 Old 01-04-2017, 02:08 PM
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Thanks Joe, I didn't think so. I bet now that video I linked earlier of the 4K60p chat session, with the 10 seconds ice clip in 4K 60p, was actually recorded on a GH5.
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post #11 of 661 Old 01-04-2017, 02:16 PM - Thread Starter
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An EOSHD look at the new king of video

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The Panasonic GH5 is very attractive. I’ll be getting one. Part of me wishes it shot ProRes for more less CPU-intensive editing of 4K and had the high bitrate ALL-I H.264 options straight out of the box along with V-LOG. However, you cannot fail to be excited by the rest of the package. It’s such a big deal. Almost non-existant rolling shutter skew, 4K 60fps, 5 axis stabilisation not to mention internal 10bit recording – for $2000 – beat that Sony!
http://www.eoshd.com/2017/01/panason...king-of-video/
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post #12 of 661 Old 01-04-2017, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
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One of the huge advantages of the GH5 is its expandability, including live monitoring and recording over HDMI while simultaneously recording internally to an SD card. It also comes with an HDMI Cable Lock Holder accessory. Shooters will have access to a 4K 4:3 anamorphic video mode at up to 60 fps, with firmware updates promised to upgrade this feature in the future. Other benefits include a dedicated GUI for videographers, which includes access to settings such as Gain and Shutter Angles, a waveform or vectorscope monitor display, and luminance level settings for 10-bit video. Finally, not to forget about audio, Panasonic has implemented a redesigned microphone with enhanced noise suppression and created a DMW-XLR1 XLR Microphone Adapter that connects via the camera’s hot shoe and adds physical audio controls and two XLR inputs to the GH5.


These video capabilities are in addition to an extremely capable set of still-imaging features, including 4K PHOTO and 6K PHOTO modes with rolling shutter distortion correction for ensuring you don’t miss a shot. These record either 18MP stills at 30 fps using HEVC or 8MP stills at 60 fps using H.264 to provide a series of high-res stills for users to choose from. Also, it has a customizable 225-area Advanced Depth-From-Defocus AF system that is faster and more accurate, able to lock on in less than 0.05 second and, with the addition of a joystick to the camera, choosing an AF point is much faster and more intuitive. Speed is definitely a theme in the GH5, with 12 fps continuous shooting with AF-S and 9 fps with AF-C for up to 100 raw frames at full resolution.


A major change is the implementation of two SD card slots, both of which are UHS-II compatible, for auto switching, creating an automatic backup, or selecting which files are saved to which card for organization. Also, five-axis Dual I.S. 2.0 makes its appearance on the flagship GH series, here using a five-axis in-body stabilization system and a two-axis lens stabilizer. This system can provide about five stops of compensation for camera movement and shake, ensuring sharp, blur-free imagery.


In addition to this, the magnesium-alloy body has received numerous improvements, including the addition of freeze-proofing down to 14°F to the splash- and dustproofing. The rear 3.2" RGBW free-angle touchscreen LCD receives a resolution bump to 1.62m-dots while the OLED viewfinder is almost entirely revised, featuring much improved 3.68m-dot resolution, a large 0.76x equivalent magnification, and an eyepoint of 21mm. The physical controls have been optimized and now include a rear joystick and the placement of the video Record button on the top of the camera.



Additionally, the GH5 now offers a USB 3.1 port for fast image transfer and tethering. A new DMW-BGGH5 Battery Grip is available for extending battery life and improving ergonomics during vertical shooting.


Those looking for wireless connectivity will be pleased with the introduction of 5GHz Wi-Fi and Bluetooth Low Energy that will make pairing with a smartphone much easier. The full-time Bluetooth connection can communicate with the phone to switch to Wi-Fi to transfer images to the smartphone—all automatically, as well as to auto geotag phones with the smartphone GPS, remotely wake up the camera, and copy and set settings from one camera to another.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora...d-fz80-cameras
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post #13 of 661 Old 01-04-2017, 08:31 PM
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All of these sound an awful lot for a $2,000 camera. Now the question is if it can make it to the market in the scheduled 3 months' time and if the AF is really up to snuff. I don't expect it to be as good as the AF on the Sony A6500, let alone the Canon Dual Pixel system but at the very least it should be reliable.
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post #14 of 661 Old 01-05-2017, 06:50 AM
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According to sources, Panasonic software based DFD (depth from defocus) works well for focus tracking and video when used with Panasonic lenses, since it relies on knowledge about the lens itself to make better focus decisions. Sensor based solutions like phase detect or dual pixel work with all lenses but depend on the physical distribution of phase detect pixels across the frame. More is better but in most cases there is a limited coverage area and current 4/3 sensors with phase detect/dual pixel are less ideal compared to Nikon D500 or Canon 1DXMkII.
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post #15 of 661 Old 01-05-2017, 07:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Panasonic could be onto a winner here in the indie sector and maybe further. 10bit capture internally with no time limits? If it is good expect this to be used as extra cameras on big shoots.
Roll on March! Over to you Sony, you better make that A7S III have specs to at least equal this! That is a big ask!
http://philipbloom.net/blog/gh5/


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post #16 of 661 Old 01-05-2017, 09:19 AM
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I noticed in the Tony Northrup video yesterday that the GH5 will be able to shoot "HDR" footage when a firmware upgrade comes in Spring or Summer.

A recent thread here explored HDR video, uploading it to YouTube and how to play it. After a firmware upgrade, my new Samsung TV was able to play HDR YouTube videos. The thread was long and I failed to get my head around how HDR footage is created. It seemed to require a GH4, an external recorder and some careful post processing.

I wonder how it will work with the GH5? Apparently it will record internally. What will it take for post processing procedures?

Bill
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post #17 of 661 Old 01-05-2017, 10:17 AM - Thread Starter
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The Lumix GH5 is Panasonic’s latest flagship model, and it took three years for them to build it. It’s designed to meet the demands of a 4K HDR world, and it’s the first camera in the GH universe to offer a 20-megapixel sensor. There’s no optical low-pass filter, which means its images should look that much sharper, and Panasonic says the camera’s new Venus Engine 10 processor is able to eliminate the “rolling shutter effect” inherent in most CMOS cameras.


The camera also supports the Hybrid Log-Gamma (HLG) standard for recording HDR video, and it’ll record HLG video in-camera—a first, according to Panasonic. It also records 4K footage at up to 60 frames per second, and if you absolutely require things like professional color correction and green-screen shots, its 4:2:2 10-bit recording in 4K at 30fps will be a major hook.
https://www.wired.com/2017/01/panaso...r-video-beast/

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Now, for the real meaty goodies in the new GH5 4K mirrorless, we get down to its video recording chops. These are stunning indeed and include support for the new broadcast HDR Hybrid Log Gamma (HLG) video standard that’s being used with increasing frequency in 2017. In fact, the GH5 is the first camera released so far with the ability to shoot in-camera HLG video according to Panasonic. Moving beyond this, the GH5 can also manage 4K video recording at 60 frames per second while also delivering professional color calibration via 4:2:2 10-bit recording at 30fps in 4K resolution as well.
http://4k.com/news/meet-the-panasoni...t-60fps-18104/
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post #18 of 661 Old 01-05-2017, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by bsprague View Post
I noticed in the Tony Northrup video yesterday that the GH5 will be able to shoot "HDR" footage when a firmware upgrade comes in Spring or Summer.

A recent thread here explored HDR video, uploading it to YouTube and how to play it. After a firmware upgrade, my new Samsung TV was able to play HDR YouTube videos. The thread was long and I failed to get my head around how HDR footage is created. It seemed to require a GH4, an external recorder and some careful post processing.

I wonder how it will work with the GH5? Apparently it will record internally. What will it take for post processing procedures?

Bill
The GH5 will support Hybrid Log Gamma (HLG) HDR recording in camera. That is one type of HDR. And YouTube supports it. So theoretically, you should be able to directly upload these HLG encoded files to YouTube and get HDR. But you can only see that version of HDR if your TV supports it. Technically, none yet do. Some 2016 TV's may be firmware updated. Otherwise it's coming in 2017 TV's.

HDR10 is another, more common type of HDR which YouTube also supports and is available in all HDR TV's today. But creating HDR10 requires a lot of complex post processing which you read about in that other thread. Technically, if you want to use the GH5 to create HDR10 files, you'd record in Log and do all that processing to convert it to HDR10.

So HLG should simplify HDR in the future. It requires no metadata or post processing. And it is actually backwards compatible with SDR TV's. It is geared towards an easy broadcast workflow. It is developed and being tested by BBC. And I believe it will make HDR easy for non professionals who want to shoot HDR.

HDR10 is geared towards feature films and TV shows. It is a higher quality HDR, but requires all that processing and metadata.

Your current Samsung TV can only show HDR10 YouTube videos right now. I believe Samsung promised a firmware update to HLG for 2016 TV's, but don't quote me on that.
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post #19 of 661 Old 01-05-2017, 11:48 AM
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Yes but...
YouTube doesn't support H.265, so if true that GH5 records in HEVC, it will have to be transcoded to something else.

As pertains to metadata, I think there still needs a line of metadata to tell YouTube that the transfer is HLG, otherwise How does YT know? That means wrapping the content in a mkv container as it does now for st.2084.
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post #20 of 661 Old 01-05-2017, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
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I use Edit Ready on my Mac Pro to transcode H.265 and I use PotPlayer to view my native H.265 videos in Windows 10.
http://www.eoshd.com/2015/03/editrea...ung-nx1-h-265/
https://potplayer.daum.net/
http://www.divergentmedia.com/editready#trial
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post #21 of 661 Old 01-05-2017, 12:38 PM
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Thank you Puddy and Tom for the explanations.

For now I'm content that I can shoot 4K with a $700 Panasonic "tourist" sized camera, edit in a $90 NLE and conveniently play on my $1000 Samsung TV. In fact, I'm a lot more than content. I'm thrilled it works so well. The dynamic range is pretty good.

One day I may be able to shoot scenes requiring a higher dynamic range with similar "common" stuff. But, I'm not in a rush. I can live with the clipped highlights and blocked shadows when I have to.

My HDR thrills come on the stills side. The same "tourist" camera will do some quick bracketing and processing that combines the multiple exposure images is easy and fun. My NLE will do some "pan and zooms" for the 4K TV to make it look like I know what I'm doing.

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post #22 of 661 Old 01-05-2017, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Roper View Post
Yes but...
YouTube doesn't support H.265, so if true that GH5 records in HEVC, it will have to be transcoded to something else.

As pertains to metadata, I think there still needs a line of metadata to tell YouTube that the transfer is HLG, otherwise How does YT know? That means wrapping the content in a mkv container as it does now for st.2084.
Doesn't the GH5 do both 264 and 265? I guess we don't know enough yet about the HLG recording mode. Hopefully it will give you a choice. Otherwise, I hope YouTube will eventually support 265 uploading like they support 264 now.

As for the metadata, it's my understanding that no metadata is necessary at all for HLG as long as it's using the HLG EOTF and the 2020 color space. Compatible displays will recognize HDR, incompatible displays will recognize SDR. YouTube shouldn't even need to create a custom SDR downconversion like it does for HDR10 since SDR compatibility is baked into the EOTF.
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post #23 of 661 Old 01-05-2017, 03:24 PM
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First Bad News about the GH5 (but it may be temporary)

Many editors and players cannot recognize the 10bit 4K H264 files from the GH5. Windows media Player cannot play them, VLS can. More importantly, I can vouch (and others have reported this) that the original H264 10bit files cannot be ingested in Davinci Resolve 12.5 and Magix Vegas Pro 14 - unrecognized. Others have reported success in Edius and some other editors. The 150 Mbps H264 60p 4K files (8bit) are fine, though difficult to decode.
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post #24 of 661 Old 01-05-2017, 03:40 PM
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Second Bad News About the GH5

From the videos I've seen from Joe's links, it looks like low light, certainly in relation to Sony's better offerings, might be the weak spot.

The 'Notting Hill People' video, at about 13 minutes, shows a 'so so' low light attempt of the GH5. It's certainly usable, but the noise is there.

On the editing side, I may not be as optimistic as Mark for a quick solution to these more advanced codecs. It's been quite a while since the NX1 and most editors still can't do H265.
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post #25 of 661 Old 01-05-2017, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post
Many editors and players cannot recognize the 10bit 4K H264 files from the GH5. Windows media Player cannot play them, VLS can. More importantly, I can vouch (and others have reported this) that the original H264 10bit files cannot be ingested in Davinci Resolve 12.5 and Magix Vegas Pro 14 - unrecognized. Others have reported success in Edius and some other editors. The 150 Mbps H264 60p 4K files (8bit) are fine, though difficult to decode.
In the notes on YouTube for one of the "test" videos it says, "Edited and graded in Adobe Premiere on Microsoft Surface Book"
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post #26 of 661 Old 01-05-2017, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by bsprague View Post
In the notes on YouTube for one of the "test" videos it says, "Edited and graded in Adobe Premiere on Microsoft Surface Book"
The issue is with the 10bit 4K 4:2:2 clips - was that "test video" in that format? The 8bit 4K 60p files are no problem. But, I think Premiere is ok even with the problem ones.

This is the link to the original files, which can be downloaded. Don't worry, they are not too big...

http://www.mediafire.com/file/m5rrou...H5_Footage.zip

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post #27 of 661 Old 01-05-2017, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puddy77 View Post
Doesn't the GH5 do both 264 and 265? I guess we don't know enough yet about the HLG recording mode. Hopefully it will give you a choice. Otherwise, I hope YouTube will eventually support 265 uploading like they support 264 now.

As for the metadata, it's my understanding that no metadata is necessary at all for HLG as long as it's using the HLG EOTF and the 2020 color space. Compatible displays will recognize HDR, incompatible displays will recognize SDR. YouTube shouldn't even need to create a custom SDR downconversion like it does for HDR10 since SDR compatibility is baked into the EOTF.
Yeah Puddy!

I think you are right and agree with you 100%. The ONLY reason I had for giving pause to the no requirement for HLG metadata is because HEVC does provide in its VUI (video usability information) for an HLG transfer option. It's in there with all the other HDR10 static metadata for ST.2084. I took a cue from you and looked up the BBC HLG white paper and posted it below.

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/w...les/WHP309.pdf

If you read down to 7. Conclusions, it's a very compelling case for HLG. So if it is really just that easy to upload YouTube in HLG and be done with it, we could simply start encoding EVERYTHING in HLG right now with no negative consequences except one; the fact that HLG compliant displays are just now becoming available, and all the current HDR10/DV displays won't yet support HLG or the marvelous improvement it promises.

There is such high demand on YouTube right now for HDR content, an HDR video I posted got 28,000 views in barely 4 weeks. If I had uploaded in the HLG format hardly anyone would have seen it in HDR. HLG's biggest problem is from being late to the party. And when it starts rolling out in broadcast distribution, people will of course notice the great picture but maybe not even be aware they are receiving an HDR broadcast since it doesn't switch the tv into a separate mode the way HDR10 does.

This I will tell you, my next display purchase will include HLG playback capability.
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post #28 of 661 Old 01-05-2017, 06:24 PM
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There is such high demand on YouTube right now for HDR content, an HDR video I posted got 28,000 views in barely 4 weeks. If I had uploaded in the HLG format hardly anyone would have seen it in HDR. HLG's biggest problem is from being late to the party. And when it starts rolling out in broadcast distribution, people will of course notice the great picture but maybe not even be aware they are receiving an HDR broadcast since it doesn't switch the tv into a separate mode the way HDR10 does.

This I will tell you, my next display purchase will include HLG playback capability.
BT.2100 also provides for conversions between PQ and HLG. I'm hoping in the future that either YouTube itself or streaming devices like the Chromecast Ultra will be able to do automatic conversions so no matter what type of HDR display you have, you will be able to enjoy HDR from either version.
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post #29 of 661 Old 01-05-2017, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by markr041 View Post
Windows media Player cannot play them, VLS can.
Good enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post
More importantly, I can vouch (and others have reported this) that the original H264 10bit files cannot be ingested in Davinci Resolve 12.5 and Magix Vegas Pro 14 - unrecognized.
This is surprising.
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post #30 of 661 Old 01-05-2017, 08:48 PM
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The issue is with the 10bit 4K 4:2:2 clips - was that "test video" in that format? The 8bit 4K 60p files are no problem. But, I think Premiere is ok even with the problem ones.

This is the link to the original files, which can be downloaded. Don't worry, they are not too big...

http://www.mediafire.com/file/m5rrou...H5_Footage.zip
The "test video" was this one:

The comment about Premier was at the bottom of the expanded notes.
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