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post #31 of 57 Old 09-14-2017, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by markr041 View Post
Yes, and very soon...
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post #32 of 57 Old 09-14-2017, 12:39 PM
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It appears the more consumer version of the 3 new Sonys, is the FDR-AX700.

https://photorumors.com/2017/09/14/s...4k-camcorders/
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post #33 of 57 Old 09-22-2017, 11:33 PM
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Sooo.... no one interested in these camcorders? I'm thinking of the XF-400 to replace my Canon XA20.
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post #34 of 57 Old 09-23-2017, 03:58 AM
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^ Nothing here that gets me excited.
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post #35 of 57 Old 09-23-2017, 05:36 AM
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Quote:
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^ Nothing here that gets me excited.


Interesting. You’re in the GH5 camp currently. I’m looking for 4K60 in a form factor that will allow me to do basketball better than my AX100 does.


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post #36 of 57 Old 09-23-2017, 12:57 PM
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4K60 with a zoom means your only choice is the GH5.
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post #37 of 57 Old 09-23-2017, 07:02 PM
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Or 2 lenses and 2 cameras on the iPhone 8+ if you can live with cellphone video. Search for sample footage that has now started showing up on YouTube. 30 frames more for every second show how much we have been lacking in terms of pleasing motion especially in videos shot with cellphones.
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post #38 of 57 Old 09-23-2017, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
4K60 with a zoom means your only choice is the GH5.
Are you kidding? I am surprised by this answer. There is no parfocal, steady power zoom for the GH5. Its focus is not up to tracking moving subjects. Its bigger sensor is not useful for sports. It has many advantages, but its shortcomings are precisely for shooting moving subjects, and sports action.

A camcorder - power zoom- with a good AF, a smaller sensor (not too small) that does 4K60p is what is needed for sports. Canon XF400 - power zoom, 4K60p.

Maybe you were kidding?

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post #39 of 57 Old 09-23-2017, 07:58 PM
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No Mark, I wasn’t kidding. The question was not what would exist in the future, but what exists today. There is no consumer camcorder that shoots 4K60p. No kidding. There is no consumer 4K60p camcorder with a parfocal lens. No kidding.

Further, you don’t ‘need’ a parfocal lens for shooting basketball. Would it be nice to have that together with 4K60p? Yes. Is it essential? No. No kidding.

As for the GH5’s AF, it really isn’t as bad as you make it out to be. Let’s also see how the new firmware, that’s set to be released within the next 2 weeks, improves AF.

I’m also interested to see how the new HLG works on my OLED, that’s now HLG compatible. 😊
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post #40 of 57 Old 09-23-2017, 08:15 PM
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I'm a dreamer....

4Kp60
power zoom
camcorder style and shape
very wide to very long lens
better than we have stabilization
extraordinary CAF
compact
light weight
about $1000

Maybe I'll see it. Maybe not.

The GH5 is tempting. But, it is two expensive, the power zoom is limited to a couple lenses, it is a little too big and twice what I want to spend.

Bill
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post #41 of 57 Old 09-24-2017, 04:23 AM
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Bill, the upcoming Canon may tick off most of these boxes, but it’s far from ticking that price box. 😊
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post #42 of 57 Old 09-24-2017, 10:03 AM
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Bill, the upcoming Canon may tick off most of these boxes, but it’s far from ticking that price box. 😊
Yes. Based on best guesses, I've got somewhere between 1 and 20 years left to have my camera dream come true. Meanwhile, I enjoy living with the faults of the cameras I have.

I had some down time between cities on a trip last month and used it to dig into the abilities of the camera I own. In other words, I read the manual and a third party guide. The faults are few and the features/benefits are many!

If you started with a Kodak Brownie and roll film like I did, the current version of digital imaging impresses me beyond words I know how to write.
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post #43 of 57 Old 09-28-2017, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
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Bill, the upcoming Canon may tick off most of these boxes, but it’s far from ticking that price box. 😊
The Canons tend to get cheaper quick. Not as quick as the JVCs though.
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post #44 of 57 Old 09-28-2017, 07:07 PM
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If you started with a Kodak Brownie and roll film like I did, the current version of digital imaging impresses me beyond words I know how to write.
It impresses me despite that I've started with DV.
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post #45 of 57 Old 10-12-2017, 08:47 PM
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It impresses me despite that I've started with DV.


Anyone watch this?



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post #46 of 57 Old 10-13-2017, 01:03 PM
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Anyone watch this?


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I just did and I can't help wonder why this wasn't in 4K when I thought for sure it would be. Hmm.

I'm also not sure about the color. I may not appreciate that 'Canon color' anymore, but I'll reserve judgement until real 4K samples are released either by Canon or owners.
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post #47 of 57 Old 10-13-2017, 09:19 PM
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I just did and I can't help wonder why this wasn't in 4K when I thought for sure it would be. Hmm.
Agreed.

This is my type of camera: small and portable, with wide angle yet powerful zoom, XLR, stabilization, decent-sized chip. But too expensive for my taste.

Hopefully I will be able to find the XA20 on eBay for reasonable price now when the new cameras are out. The XA30 is $1600 at B&H.
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post #48 of 57 Old 10-14-2017, 07:13 PM
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I might actually get the XF400. The GH5 has it's benefits in that you're able to change lenses and in theory, it should give you slightly more detailed video quality than the XF400 because of the slightly more pixels in the chip but something in a camcorder shape with camcorder features also has it's own benefits. Supposedly the XF400 will give you better auto focusing, easier zooming (in and out) and built in ND filters. Having something like both the GH5 and the XF400 makes a good combo for different shooting environments.

Comparing the XF400 to HC-X1/UX180, the UX180/HC-X1 has better manual controls and a longer zoom while the XF400 is smaller and most likely have better auto focusing. A big question mark is over heating. The UX180 is a bigger body so perhaps it'll deal with that better and at the same time, Panasonic is known for keeping over heating under control. On the other hand, the XF400 is much newer so it wouldn't be surprising if the overheating would be dealt with as good as the Panasonic camcorders.

I'll be going to NAB New York soon and one of the things I'll ask a Sony rep is rather their new camcorders can get 4K 60p in a future firmware update. As mentioned in another post, it would be more expensive to put 4K 60p on the new Sony camcorders than it would on the Canon and Panasonic camcorders because of the more pixels that's used for video but it might be possible if they crop the chip a bit. Just use a smaller portion of the chip just like Panasonic did with the DVX200 in which it uses a big portion of the chip for 4K 24p and 30p and uses a smaller portion for 4K 60p. If they did that, the low light capabilities in 4K 60p would be a little worse and the detail quality wont be as high as the 4k 24p and 30p modes but heck, having 4K 60p is better than not having it. If that is still not possible, how about 3K 60?.

It'll be interesting seeing what will happen at CES. Perhaps Panasonic will make a consumer version of the HC-X1. Basically put that tech into a much smaller body with less external controls. Doesn't have to be 20X. 10x to 15x would be fine.
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post #49 of 57 Old 10-16-2017, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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I would hold off until real user footage starts to appear if I were you. There are a few clips on youtube from pre-release reviewers showing some real footage, and the IQ is pretty terrible in all of them. It is not a promising sign when generic out of the box "4K" clips look like they could have been shot on a 2012 Canon camcorder. The "4K" looks more like bad HD in terms of resolution and there is a crap load of purple fringing in high contrast areas. It looks very "Canon small sensor video" in that respect even though it has a 1" sensor, and the camera is NOT going to be able to complement Canon's EOS-C cameras IMO.

It looks like quite a large camera compared to the older G/XA lines as well (not surprising, due to the larger sensor - everything is scaled up in proportion). I also notice some vents on it, so it likely has active cooling.
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post #50 of 57 Old 10-16-2017, 03:36 PM
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post #51 of 57 Old 10-16-2017, 05:36 PM
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Disappointing IQ, excellent image stabilization, but at least parts of it were in 4K.
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post #52 of 57 Old 10-16-2017, 08:08 PM
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Called it...Soft Image. What good is 4K/60p with crappy image and plus you get to pay an extra $700 for it? Going with the Sony NX80 and 4K/30p. I just don't get why Canon keeps crippling their cameras. The IS is crazy good though on the XF405. Hoping the Sony's are on par with it.
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post #53 of 57 Old 10-17-2017, 03:27 PM
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I’m sure the Sony IQ will be better, that’s an easy bar to top, but the Sony IS probably won’t be as good.
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post #54 of 57 Old 10-17-2017, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
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I’m sure the Sony IQ will be better, that’s an easy bar to top, but the Sony IS probably won’t be as good.

Yeah, just found out the NX80 is not even using the Sony BOSS IS. I guess it's only effective on smaller sensors cause I can't see why they wouldn't include it.
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post #55 of 57 Old 10-17-2017, 06:29 PM
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I wouldn't say the IQ overall is bad. It's only typical Canon 4K. If we talk only in terms of sheer resolution I never saw Canon 4K beat for example, Sony 4K. 4K coming out of the 5DMK4, 1DXMK2 looks softer than 4K from the A6500, A7RII, A7SII, A9 and even RX100V.

What's so much more obvious from this very good field test is that the IQ, generally speaking, is in a different league compared to the shots from the Canon C300 the other guy used to film the test narrator. I can tell right from my only 1440p screen that the cinema camera's shots have tons more detail even with the edge sharpening appearing to be none or minimal, unlike the XF405 or most of the consumer or prosumer level cameras which mostly rely on some degree of artificial sharpening to make the image look sharper.

On the other hand, quality video is not all about resolution or sharpening but how well you could handle the camera, how reliable the AF is, how wide the zoom range is and how smoothly it zooms, does it hold focus with minimal breathing?, whether the audio is adequate, etc. Things like those are what make a number of pros and consumers alike go for a real compact video camera like the XF405. I think it does pretty well for what it is though maybe a bit pricey compared to the competition.
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post #56 of 57 Old 10-17-2017, 08:04 PM
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What's so much more obvious from this very good field test is that the IQ, generally speaking, is in a different league compared to the shots from the Canon C300 the other guy used to film the test narrator. I can tell right from my only 1440p screen that the cinema camera's shots have tons more detail
I could not tell that. The major difference was the gamma/contrast, but not the amount of detail.
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post #57 of 57 Old 10-17-2017, 08:25 PM
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I could not tell that. The major difference was the gamma/contrast, but not the amount of detail.
Almost everywhere, the narrator's hair, his eyes, foliage, tree trunks etc. Even detail in the blackness of his tripod. Yes, the difference in gamma setting and WB would be the first thing you'd see. I have no idea if the sections from the C300 were shot in C-log or Wide DR gamma but the DR I see in the video is also no doubt superior.
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