Sony RX10 IV with phase-detect AF - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 8 Old 09-12-2017, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Sony RX10 IV with phase-detect AF

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Sony has announced the RX10 Mark IV, a high-speed addition to its long-zoom 1" sensor compact lineup. It can shoot at 24 fps with AF and AE and can shoot for up to 249 Raw images. Its 0.03 sec AF-lock speed is claimed to be the World's fastest.
It features the same 24-600mm equiv. lens as its predecessor and is the first RX10 camera to include on-sensor phase detection, with 315 AF points across the frame. The camera's image stabilization is rated at 4.5 stops.
4K 24p/30p video with phase detection autofocus, taken from oversampled capture for high detail levels. It can also shoot 1080p footage at up to 120 fps.
The RX10 IV also has a tilting touchscreen LCD.
It will cost around $1699 and will be available from October.
https://www.dpreview.com/news/155409...-24-fps-bursts


  • 20.1MP 1" Exmor RS BSI CMOS Sensor
  • BIONZ X Image Processor & Front-End LSI
  • Zeiss Vario-Sonnar T* f/2.4-4 Zoom Lens
  • 24-600mm (35mm Equivalent)
  • 2.36m-Dot OLED Tru-Finder EVF
  • 3.0" 1.44m-Dot Tilting Touchscreen LCD
  • UHD 4K30 Video, Full HD 1080p at 960 fps
  • Fast Hybrid AF System with 315 Points
  • ISO 12800 and 24 fps Continuous Shooting
  • Built-In Wi-Fi and Bluetooth
  • https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...al_camera.html
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post #2 of 8 Old 09-12-2017, 08:13 AM
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Absolutely incredible. The one and only change I saw was the phase detect AF. How do you release an identical camera with no 4K60p and only one change that isn't hugely significant? This body should have been able to handle 4K60 with the proper processor.

As for phase detection, you'll still get misfocuses. The most highly acclaimed focusing, Canon's dual pixel approach, showed obvious misses in their sample footage of their new 4K cameras.

This is why I say I don't understand Sony's recent marketing.
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post #3 of 8 Old 09-12-2017, 08:22 AM - Thread Starter
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I agree Ken, they should have had 4K 60p if the wanted an upgraded RX 10 III.
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post #4 of 8 Old 09-12-2017, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Absolutely incredible. The one and only change I saw was the phase detect AF. How do you release an identical camera with no 4K60p and only one change that isn't hugely significant? This body should have been able to handle 4K60 with the proper processor.

As for phase detection, you'll still get misfocuses. The most highly acclaimed focusing, Canon's dual pixel approach, showed obvious misses in their sample footage of their new 4K cameras.

This is why I say I don't understand Sony's recent marketing.
I totally agree with you in the disappointment about 4K 60p (and maybe 4:2:2 10 bit too), but I don't understand your attitude on phase detect: PDAF is better than contrast detect, much better. Much, much better. That is why the move to it.

I can't understand why Panasonic cannot adopt phase detect in any of its cameras. Its contrast detect is inferior technology, and much worse then the phase detect on Sony's newest cameras and on Canon's cameras.

I can understand why one might value 60p 4K more than better focusing, but I don't get dissing phase detect with cheap shots like there are "misses." Really, PDAF actually misses sometimes? It's not perfect? I was disappointed in Canon's new zoom camcorders, as in the videos focus was lost *while zooming*. That is not a PDAF issue - it's a lens issue - evidently not parfocal.
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post #5 of 8 Old 09-12-2017, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by markr041 View Post
I totally agree with you in the disappointment about 4K 60p (and maybe 4:2:2 10 bit too), but I don't understand your attitude on phase detect: PDAF is better than contrast detect, much better. Much, much better. That is why the move to it.

I can't understand why Panasonic cannot adopt phase detect in any of its cameras. Its contrast detect is inferior technology, and much worse then the phase detect on Sony's newest cameras and on Canon's cameras.

I can understand why one might value 60p 4K more than better focusing, but I don't get dissing phase detect with cheap shots like there are "misses." Really, PDAF actually misses sometimes? It's not perfect? I was disappointed in Canon's new zoom camcorders, as in the videos focus was lost *while zooming*. That is not a PDAF issue - it's a lens issue - evidently not parfocal.
Actually there were misses with the Canon while not zooming. Canon's system is the pinnacle of AF systems. So yes, no AF system is perfect and it's the reason most pros don't use them. As I've said before, I used AF lock for all my Sonys. AF lock on the Panasonic is far easier. One button focuses and locks and is virtually instantaneous. Works very well for me and for the kind of shooting I do (and you do too). It works in 95% of the situations I'm in.

As for the PDAF, I'm not dissing it and I agree it's better than Panasonic's system, but I'm simply saying I don't understand coming out with a new camera with that being the only change. I stand by that 100%. If you come out with a 'new' camera, you need to differentiate from the older model with more than just one change. You may disagree, but that's MO. More importantly, the RX10III's AF was fine. As I've previously demonstrated, your skepticism aside, the focus was usually reliable even while zooming. If I still had the RX10, there's no way I'd upgrade for just that.
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post #6 of 8 Old 09-12-2017, 09:41 AM
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The touch screen is new as well isn't it?

I'm guessing that the RX10 series is going to follow the III lens path rather than the original I/II lens path from now on.
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post #7 of 8 Old 09-12-2017, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Actually there were misses with the Canon while not zooming. Canon's system is the pinnacle of AF systems. So yes, no AF system is perfect and it's the reason most pros don't use them. As I've said before, I used AF lock for all my Sonys. AF lock on the Panasonic is far easier. One button focuses and locks and is virtually instantaneous. Works very well for me and for the kind of shooting I do (and you do too). It works in 95% of the situations I'm in.

As for the PDAF, I'm not dissing it and I agree it's better than Panasonic's system, but I'm simply saying I don't understand coming out with a new camera with that being the only change. I stand by that 100%. If you come out with a 'new' camera, you need to differentiate from the older model with more than just one change. You may disagree, but that's MO. More importantly, the RX10III's AF was fine. As I've previously demonstrated, your skepticism aside, the focus was usually reliable even while zooming. If I still had the RX10, there's no way I'd upgrade for just that.
As I said, I agree with you completely (wasn't that clear?) that this new camera (and the new A7) is a big disappointment. So you are defending what wasn't attacked in any way (a debate tactic I always enjoy seeing put to use). I was only remarking on your gratuitous shot at PDAF (misses focus). Btw, your prediction that Sony may have to move to a bigger body seems right (even though no great benefit at this time).

The RX100 V versus IV of last year was essentially the same thing - Sony only added PDAF, nothing else (and charged more).

Locking focus, however, does not work if you actually shoot moving subjects. Mountains are fine, vloggers and runners and BIFs are not (unless they are at infinity).

So, Canon has moved to 4K 60P, but not Sony - amazing.

Last edited by markr041; 09-12-2017 at 09:56 AM.
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post #8 of 8 Old 09-12-2017, 11:45 AM
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Not sure where you think I was 'defending what wasn't attacked', so I think you misconstrued my point. I made no 'gratuitous' shot at PDAF. Me thinks you are a bit sensitive at times.

Actually AF lock works fine for moving objects that move laterally or away from the camera if they start out at even moderate distances, with a typical DOF, when shooting outdoors. I agree if the subject is moving toward the camera and aperture is moderately wide, that can be an issue with AF lock. However most of my subject material either moves laterally or doesn't move much at all. With that said, I've used AF lock at the zoo where animals are surely not stationary, and haven't experienced many issues. For those in which the subject moves toward the camera, tracking AF, although not perfect, has not been a significant issue. Would I like to see improvements in tracking AF? Sure. I felt the same way about my A7Rii and A6300. Interestingly, although not having PDAF, I did not find the AF differences significant, between the RX10III and my 2 prior Sonys.

I'm guessing, based on what I've read, the upcoming GH5 firmware update will improve its tracking AF. We shall see.

As for Sony & 4K60p, who knows, it may take a new Sony camcorder like the Canon, to finally bring that to reality.
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