4K60P RAW and 4K120P 10bit422 for <$5000 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 8 Old 09-23-2017, 07:47 PM - Thread Starter
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4K60P RAW and 4K120P 10bit422 for <$5000

Yes, you read it correctly. In fact 4K is really 4K (4096x2169), not TV UHD. And yes, RAW and 4K120P. Or ProRes 10bit422.

APS-C sensor, Sony E-mount lenses, same as on the FS7 and FS5 (look up their prices). Power zooms. Touch AF. Built in ND filters! Even 240P at 2K, RAW (yes, 240 fps). Full manual or full auto everything - your choice. Slog2. or not.

What is it? Well:

The Sony FS700R ($3500) and the Atomos Inferno ($1300), and an SDI cable ($10) and an SSD. Yes, you can also get this from the FS5 and Atomos combo. But the price is $5250+$1300, including the necessary FS5 RAW upgrade. But it does not have the 4K120P option. The quality is exactly the same. And there are in fact no other camera/combo options to get 4K RAW and HFR RAW for under $10,000+.

Ready to shoot 4K60P as RAW or Pro Res (10bit 422) and 4K120P ProRes (10bit 422).

Quality Pro's (who can rent equipment) say is as good as RED.

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post #2 of 8 Old 09-23-2017, 08:04 PM
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Not exactly the size, price and weight combo many here look for. I’d also suspect most here don’t work with RAW. With that said, yes, certainly cheaper than some alternatives.
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post #3 of 8 Old 09-23-2017, 08:05 PM
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I'm pleased it is under $5K. But it takes an ungainly collection of separate pieces. What happened to your goals of traveling light and shooting incognito!

FWIW, I will hold my camera lust in check until I can get 60fps, the next level of rock solid stabilization and compact size for $1000 or less. Until then any personal contribution to this equipment dominated forum will be lackluster.

FWIW(2), I went to a family wedding today. My camera of choice was the Panasonic LX100.

Did you buy one?

Bill
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post #4 of 8 Old 09-23-2017, 09:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Not exactly the size, price and weight combo many here look for. I’d also suspect most here don’t work with RAW. With that said, yes, certainly cheaper than some alternatives.
Yes, most don't work with RAW. But 10bit ProRes 422 is easy to work with, actually easier than long GOP alternatives. The Inferno takes the RAW and records either RAW or ProRes.

The FS700 is the strangest looking thing. But it doesnt overheat! If someone made a 5" 4K recorder that works like the Shogun Inferno, then the combo becomes just a little more ungainly than a bigger camcorder. Maybe even a recorder without a screen, since the FS700 screen works fine when outputting RAW.

The Inferno works with the GH5 to get ProRes 422 10bit 4K 60p, but that is probably not a significant improvement.
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post #5 of 8 Old 09-24-2017, 04:19 AM
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I just can’t see traveling with anything like that. Nor will I ever understand the need for RAW when you can get such spectacular results straight out of the top, much smaller, gear.

In fact, unless you’re looking for some stylized effect or determined to get that last 3/4 stop of DR, I’ve yet to see anyone with the talent to take RAW and make it look as good as what comes straight from the best cameras.

I’ll leave this to Hollywood and their feature length films.
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post #6 of 8 Old 09-24-2017, 07:35 AM - Thread Starter
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I just can’t see traveling with anything like that. Nor will I ever understand the need for RAW when you can get such spectacular results straight out of the top, much smaller, gear.

In fact, unless you’re looking for some stylized effect or determined to get that last 3/4 stop of DR, I’ve yet to see anyone with the talent to take RAW and make it look as good as what comes straight from the best cameras.

I’ll leave this to Hollywood and their feature length films.
Do you like HDR? Do you recognize the improvements of HDR over SDR? Then you need wide camera DR and 10bit and 422. HDR makes travel videos or family videos or whatever videos more realistic.

RAW is just what the camera outputs. You have the choice (with whatever recorder) to record in (CinemaDNG) RAW (12bit) or ProRes 10bit 422 (even 444), which is easy to edit.

The GH5 gives you 10bit 422 for 4K30p only, and lower DR. This combo gives you all those better HDR-relevant capabilities and high bitrates for both 4K60P and 4K120P.

Now, whether this is worth lugging around for these advantages to shoot what is the very best HDR is a choice. It is clearly not for many.

Here is Philip Bloom shooting with a similar combo (the FS5 (same exact quality as FS700R) +Shogun Inferno):


He loves the slomo capabilities. I am not a big fan of his grading. But he shoots interesting "place" videos.

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post #7 of 8 Old 09-24-2017, 09:41 AM
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Shooting with big, bulky equipment, regardless of results, is not fun IMO. You, at one time, felt the same way.

It's not much different than shooting with a large, solid tripod. Sure you can get more stable results, but schlepping a tripod through the course of a day is not fun, IMO, and is not even allowed in many areas.

BTW, as I understand it (and I may be wrong, but this is what I heard a Panasonic rep), the new firmware of the GH5 will allow the user to shoot in HDR (HLG) and play it directly on to an HDR capable display like an LG OLED. If this is the case, it would allow HDR without the fuss of RAW. If that's the case, that blows away any other approach I've seen from the standpoint of simplicity.

With that said, most of the results I've seen from non-professionals shooting HDR, are less than appealing to me. It certainly looks nothing like the better HDR I've seen when its done right in professional productions. At best, I'd call it a weak representation of HDR. Unless you've seen what HDR can really look like on a high-end display, it's hard to appreciate how different it looks from 'amateur' results. For the record, I'm not expecting the HLG of the GH5 to look anything like what the pros can do. So I have no false expectations.

On another note, since I've had extensive experience watching all forms of HDR, even much of the professional HDR can look pretty abysmal. Some of it is so overdone, it simply screams out "Look at me, I'm HDR". It bears no resemblance to the real world we see. Just watch some of the night scenes on many HDR productions, and you'll see street lights and signs that are 100x brighter than how we see those same scenes with our naked eyes.

So yes, HDR has potential, but it's really really tough to get HDR to look like what it should look like when done right.
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post #8 of 8 Old 09-24-2017, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
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.......
So yes, HDR has potential, but it's really really tough to get HDR to look like what it should look like when done right.
I don't have the gear to do video HDR but do some with stills. The key with stills is to use it in scene that have a high dynamic range to start with. The highlights and shadows have to be widely separated where details lacks in a "normal" shot. Then HDR techniques can rescue the detail. The problem comes when many photographers chose to manipulate the colors to garish extremes.

My extremely limited efforts at viewing HDR video is the same. Although my Samsung can do it, the sources so far have been less than impressive.
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