Pinnacle vs Ulead - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 17 Old 12-11-2006, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Has anyone used both the Pinnacle Video editing software (Studio Mediasuite) and the Ulead software (Videostudio Plus)? I am considering these two packages for DV and HDV authoring. I want to be able to reasonably edit my DVs and HDV's integrate effects and sound, and transfer them back to HD-DVD, Blue-Ray or D-VHS. As well as create AVI files from the material.

Is one of these two packages significantly more powerful, or easier to use, than the other?
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post #2 of 17 Old 12-11-2006, 06:39 PM
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I have used both and niether one are without their problems.

Studio does a better job but it's also a lot more finnicky. I would NOT use the media suite edition however. The Studio 10 plus edition or the studio 10 titanium edition are better. The media suite edition has a few conflicts with other programs. (You can use the Media suite editition... just don't install instant cd/dvd or media manager)

Ulead Video studio 10+ plus is probably a LITTLE more stable, but does not do as good a job.

The following programs are more expensive but I have them and they are very good:

Sony Vegas 7
Avid Liquid 7
Ulead Media Studio Pro8
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post #3 of 17 Old 12-12-2006, 12:10 AM - Thread Starter
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I bought Ulead Videostudio plus and Sony Vegas Movie Studio+DVD (platinum). I haven't opened the Sony package yet, I was hoping Videostudio plus would do all I need it to do. I'm not so sure Im crazy about it however. It's a HUGE improvement over nero but seems slow. Very slow. And transcodes everything. The interface is just very haphazard and non-intuitive for me.

Still it is working fine, and doesn't seem to have any real bugs, its just a bit cumbersome for me so far. If ULead VideoStudio 10 Plus does well enough, I won't open the Sony software and return it. I think it can burn HD-DVD's at least it appears to. I won't have my HD-A2 until Weds/Thurs to try that out with.

Overall would you use Ulead VideoStudio 10 Plus or Sony Vegas Movie Studio + DVD (Platinum Edition)?
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post #4 of 17 Old 12-12-2006, 01:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uzun View Post


Overall would you use Ulead VideoStudio 10 Plus or Sony Vegas Movie Studio + DVD (Platinum Edition)?

Although I own Ulead Media studio pro8 and swear by it (not a cheap program!), I never did like the Ulead video studio interface. I have had Video studio on my machine since version 7, and I think I have used it maybe 2 times. Sony vegas + dvd is a pretty good program... it will get the job done for you. However, I have found that it always seems to take a bit more to get used to the Sony programs as opposed to others. Sony has a big brother called Sony Vegas 7 which is an exellent program... not cheap though, and it does have a bit of a steep learning curve. Pinnacle studio 10.7 has about the best and easiest interface, and workflow is good. Once you have it up and running, it works well, but as I said, it is finnicky, and CAN have conflicts with other programs... its hardware requirements are a bit higher than others too. It works well for some... yet others have nothing but trouble with it. The advantage with PS10.7 though is that you can burn HD to standard dvd's right off the timeline... in otherwords... no hoops to jump through.... It will make an hd dvd just as easily as a regular dvd... a one-stop-shop. You do have to PURCHASE the additional HD plugin for another $50 though. I tend to use Ulead MSP and Avid liquid 7 for the actual VIDEO editing, Adobe Audition2 for the AUDIO editing, then import to studio 10.7 for disk author and burn.

If you get into this deep enough, you will find that ALL of these programs have their weak/strong points, as well as various bugs, and it works best if you own more than one!

Nero is not really an editing program at all, and should not be treated as such. It's a burning program and that is all. They just threw some editing features in there for better sales.
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post #5 of 17 Old 12-12-2006, 07:56 AM
 
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Blackbill: I read your answer to uzun and my question is essentially the same but let me state it.
I have been using Ulead Videostudio 9 and it is stable but gets sluggish after I've been editing for many hours. I find I have to close down and restart after editing for 5-6 hours. (AMD 4400+ dual-core 2 gigs)

I also own Vegas 6 Moviestudio Platinum + DVD. I have worked a little with it but I can't get into a flow where the work is happening quickly. It is a much better product and doesn't have all the goofy transitions and filters that Ulead has. (I use very few of the transitions in the Ulead suite.)
I work with the Ulead because it is laid out so logically, although(!) it needs to have global change capabilities! And the preferences section needs to have more user input. By that I mean I would like to bring up an outboard editor with stills (or an editor with audio) by means of a right click on the file in question.

The new Ulead 10 looks interesting but I don't want the same sluggishness and "too linear" of a work area. (I like linear but I want to go back and forth more quickly)
And the new Vegas 7 Moviestudio Platinum + DVD looks like one can work with Dolby Digital. (Not so in version 6)

I guess I'm asking if Vegas 7 Moviestudio (the cheaper suite, not the full, expensive) version has the capability of making editing go quickly. I seem to get lost in learning when I start using version 6 and end up with the easier to use Ulead videostudio 9. With Ulead I always get going but it seems to be a fast walk. I suspect I could go faster (and better) with Sony's suite.

I did buy "Vegas 6 Revealed: The Official Guide (Revealed)" by Doug Sahlin and it has helped me. Is there another, better book?
Should I just do the in-program tutorial? I've started it but after a while I just want to work and out comes the Ulead so I can get at it.

I am very interested in what I read about both new Sony and Ulead editors (Sony 7 and Ulead 10) but I don't want to waste money. I know I'm rambling a bit - any advice is welcome.

Thanks.

EDIT: Will either (or both) of the newer versions make better use of Dual-core processors?
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post #6 of 17 Old 12-12-2006, 08:49 AM - Thread Starter
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blackbill:What format do you output your project from in ULead MSP or Avid Liquid 7 that you import into studio 10.7 to burn the HD-DVD? That is what is the file you are importing into studio 10.7 for the purpose of burning the HD-DVD.

Also one more question. When you make an HD-DVD or HD file, do you output it at 1440x1080 resolution or 1920x1080? My Camera shoots in 1440x1080 for some reason. if I put this on an HD-DVD for example, will it be squashed or stretched unnaturally? Will it show with the correct proportions on a normal HDTV? Should I just output everything at 1920x1080, and why did Sony Choose 1440x1080 for the cameras output, that seems odd to me.
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post #7 of 17 Old 12-12-2006, 11:57 AM
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Cyrano:

I have always found that once you get used to the sony programs, then the workflow will come... it's just a matter of doing it enough so that you get your self into a routine that has a rythum to it. This can be done with any program, but as I said, I just simply have never liked the video studio interface too much. But they do have a 30 day trial VS10+ download it and give it a try. You can form your own opinion at no charge!



Uzun:

I edit in what ever the native capture is (MSP is mpg and liquid is M2V/wav)
and then I will export as a completed mpg (1440x1080, 25000K) to the HDD. I can then import this to ANY other editor that I chose since it is in a hd2 standard form.
I do this because the finished HD mpeg can be played on computer with windvd or nero showtime. This is important for me because along with the finished mpeg, I also create a separate audio file so I can do further sound editing in AA2. The mpeg playback is needed for setting up proper timing and such. I then import the whole mess into studio 10.7, replace the sound track, render and burn.

1440x1080 is used because that is the HD standard... you would think that 1920x1080 is, but it is not. As a result, you would WANT to capture, edit, and output 1440x1080 most if not all of the time.

I have a P950 dual core and the dual core does seem to be a bit faster with just about all programs, (although I amrunning overclocked at 4.6Ghz), but the programs in question here are not especially written for dual core.
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post #8 of 17 Old 12-12-2006, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
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When you burn 1440x1080 images to your HD-DVD, then play it back using a Toshiba HD-A1 or similar HD-DVD player on a 1080p 1920x1080 display, what resolution do you get in the end? Who does the scaling? Does it somehow wind up distorted?
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post #9 of 17 Old 12-12-2006, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uzun View Post

When you burn 1440x1080 images to your HD-DVD, then play it back using a Toshiba HD-A1 or similar HD-DVD player on a 1080p 1920x1080 display, what resolution do you get in the end? Who does the scaling? Does it somehow wind up distorted?

No distortion or squashing in 720 or 1080 resolutions... just a full 16:9 screen (that's 1080i... I don't do 1080p)
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post #10 of 17 Old 12-13-2006, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
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I have been using ULead 10+ for a few days, basically I understand it well enough now, and I can make .wmv files that work fine. I can burn to an HD-DVD folder then use Nero to make an HD-DVD on a normal DVD disc but it stutters a LOT during playback and for some sound options it stutters a lot.

Playing the .evo file in the HD-DVD folder using VLAN the sound stutters as well. I'm beginning to hate Ulead Videostudio plus, it seems full featured and basically works, but output to HD-DVD seems barely tested, and is very buggy from what I can tell.

Has anyone had good luck making glitch free HD-DVD's, if so how? I guess the answer is Studio 10.5+. Maybe I should return the Sony product and get Studio 10.5+ instead, but thats another $50 to upgrade to HD-DVD isnt it.
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post #11 of 17 Old 12-13-2006, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uzun View Post

I have been using ULead 10+ for a few days, basically I understand it well enough now, and I can make .wmv files that work fine. I can burn to an HD-DVD folder then use Nero to make an HD-DVD on a normal DVD disc but it stutters a LOT during playback and for some sound options it stutters a lot.

Playing the .evo file in the HD-DVD folder using VLAN the sound stutters as well. I'm beginning to hate Ulead Videostudio plus, it seems full featured and basically works, but output to HD-DVD seems barely tested, and is very buggy from what I can tell.

Has anyone had good luck making glitch free HD-DVD's, if so how? I guess the answer is Studio 10.5+. Maybe I should return the Sony product and get Studio 10.5+ instead, but thats another $50 to upgrade to HD-DVD isnt it.

I use pinnacle studio 10.7 to make my hd-dvd's... I don't really care much for the editing side of studio but I have made about 15 or so disks and all have been PERFECT except for 2. It's alot easier than video studio as well because you don't need nero... studio will do the actual burn so you don't need other programs.

And yes... the HD plugin is another $50... if you want DD5.1 sound then will will also have to buy the additional dolby digital plugin too.
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post #12 of 17 Old 12-13-2006, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
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I wonder what Im doing wrong with HD-DVD. None of my HD-DVDs come out right, they stutter like crazy. The only app I have that can play EVO files is VideoLan, the sound stutters on the PC as well.

I wonder if it is a disc drive or hardware problem or some background app that is interfering during the final creation process. I have a P4 3.6Ghz with 2GB of RAM, and a Nvidia 7800GTX card, i think the computer is OK for this.

I think I'm going to return the Sony product and get Premiere elements 3.0. Just use it and uninstall ULead, for now just forget about HD-DVD. When I get a new computer next year I can try it again. Maybe Adobe will make an HD-DVD or BD burning upgrade to Premiere elements sometime in the next few months.

For now I think HD is basically useless, except as a novelty or for creating .wmv or .avi files, those seem to work. But the EVO's that ULead VideoStudio is creating just seem buggy for some odd reason.
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post #13 of 17 Old 12-13-2006, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uzun View Post

The only app I have that can play EVO files is VideoLan, the sound stutters on the PC as well.

For testing purposes, you can change the EVO extension to VOB, and Windvd or nero showtime will play them. Do not use WMP... it can not deal with hi def playback.

I have not had your stutter problem, but then I don't use Ulead. The one time I did... it didn't come out too well.
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post #14 of 17 Old 02-20-2007, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackbill View Post

I use pinnacle studio 10.7 to make my hd-dvd's... I don't really care much for the editing side of studio but I have made about 15 or so disks and all have been PERFECT except for 2. It's alot easier than video studio as well because you don't need nero... studio will do the actual burn so you don't need other programs.

And yes... the HD plugin is another $50... if you want DD5.1 sound then will will also have to buy the additional dolby digital plugin too.

Bill, at this point in time, I would say that 10.7 and the HD-DVD authoring package have issues. Pinnacle still has not resolved the Xbox 360 HD-DVD playback error problem (through the console). Also, the discs I have generated from the Pinnacle software have only played back glitch-free on the Toshiba HD-A1, and on a Xbox 360 HD-DVD drive + PC + Cyberlink combination. I get no audio when using the HD-A2. Not working on 50% of the player packages does not strike me as success.
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post #15 of 17 Old 02-22-2007, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Ollie W. Holmes View Post

Bill, at this point in time, I would say that 10.7 and the HD-DVD authoring package have issues. Pinnacle still has not resolved the Xbox 360 HD-DVD playback error problem (through the console). Also, the discs I have generated from the Pinnacle software have only played back glitch-free on the Toshiba HD-A1, and on a Xbox 360 HD-DVD drive + PC + Cyberlink combination. I get no audio when using the HD-A2. Not working on 50% of the player packages does not strike me as success.

Well, first I am very sorry to hear about your problems... and if there is anything I can do to assist then i surely will.

But in all honesty, I don't think I ever said that pinnacle was problem free. In fact, you need to go to my post, second from the top of this thread and have a look.

Pinnacle tested their disks in the A1 not the A2, because the A2 wasn't out yet. But it stands to reason that if you are having problems with the A2 and the disks are exactly the same as you've always been doing, then they obviously have changed something on the A2. I am not at all sure how Pinnacle can be held responsible for that!? It seems to me that the finger should be pointed a little more towards the toshiba people.

I do know however that the Pinnacle engineering team is pretty responsive. If you let them know there is a problem, they will investigate it.
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post #16 of 17 Old 02-23-2007, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollie W. Holmes View Post

Bill, at this point in time, I would say that 10.7 and the HD-DVD authoring package have issues. Pinnacle still has not resolved the Xbox 360 HD-DVD playback error problem (through the console). Also, the discs I have generated from the Pinnacle software have only played back glitch-free on the Toshiba HD-A1, and on a Xbox 360 HD-DVD drive + PC + Cyberlink combination. I get no audio when using the HD-A2. Not working on 50% of the player packages does not strike me as success.

I agree with the above post that HD-DVD addon and A2 have issues playing back high bit rate (>20mb) HDV.
If you drop the data rate to 19mb, do these problems with add-on and A2 go away?
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post #17 of 17 Old 02-23-2007, 08:19 AM
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I usually run a bit rate of 19 with the A1... that's not to say that 25 does not work... I just get more on the disk that way.

I have also heard that there are problems with the xbox 360... in fact, the ulead people have now included a "xbox compatible" switch, and pinnacle is following up with that... but now the A2. Either way this is not REALLY a software problem... the software people can only run around AFTER the fact and patch things up.

But the whole thing does get kind of silly when you start having to make one disk up for the A1, one for the A2, and one for the xbox. For now, I guess the best thing to do if you are interested in hybrid hd dvd's, is stick with one machine type.

Hopefully sometime in the near future, the Toshiba/M$ people will settle on a standard machine type when it comes to these hybrids

It all may be rather moot anyway, Hd DVD burners are SUPPOSED to be out in March or April and they're SUPPOSED to be roughly 1/2 the price of BD burners. He, he.... let's see if those disk play in all three machines!!??
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