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post #1 of 44 Old 03-02-2007, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Is the JVC GZ-HD7US camcorder a good buy? It claims 1080i recording and a 60G hard drive combined with a 3 chip design. Does this mean it records real 1080i without reduction to fit on a tape, since it has no tape?

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post #2 of 44 Old 03-02-2007, 04:02 PM - Thread Starter
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WORLD'S FIRST FULL HD 1920x1080i CONSUMER CAMCORDER JOINS JVC EVERIO HARD DRIVE CAMCORDER LINE

HD Everio Offers Five Hours of High-Definition Recording and Broadcast HD Camera Lens

LAS VEGAS, January 7, 2007 - JVC expands its award-winning Everio hard drive camcorder family with the addition of the HD Everio GZ-HD7, a new high definition camcorder that provides full HD 1920x1080i video quality combined with the convenience of hard drive recording. Designed to enable consumers to conveniently capture and share their memories in full high definition without the need for removable tapes or discs, the HD Everio offers consumers the simplicity of a point-and-shoot camcorder combined with the features, technology and manual controls that appeal to the serious videographer.

With a 60GB built-in hard drive the JVC HD Everio provides up to five hours of full HD 1920x1080i recording at a high 30Mbps(MAX) Mbps. To ensure the best possible image quality, it features three CCDs and a Fujinon lens. Other features include optical image stabilization, a full array of manual controls, multiple digital connections, bundled editing and archiving software, and availability of an optional HD Everio SHARE STATION for easily transferring footage to disc.

In addition to its highest quality Full HD recording mode that records five hours of full HD 1920x1080i MPEG2 Transport Stream video with MPEG 1 Layer 2 audio, the HD Everio offers a long seven hour SP mode with a resolution of 1440x1080i, and a 1440CBR mode with a resolution of 1440x1080i and a five-hour capacity. Also, because it records in the MPEG2 Transport Stream video format, HD Everio recordings can be archived onto Blu-ray discs using provided software and a high definition Blu-ray recorder.

Record Mode Record Resolution CODEC Video/Audio System Bit Rate Recording Time
FHD
(Full HD High Quality Mode) 1920x1080i MPEG2-TS /
MP2 (MPEG1 Layer 2) Variable Bit Rate (VBR): Max 30 Mbps
Ave. 26.6Mbps approx. 5hr
SP
(Long Time 7 Hour Mode) 1440x1080i MPEG2-TS /
MP2 (MPEG1 Layer 2) VBR: Max 22 Mbps
Ave. 19Mbps approx. 7hr
1440CBR
(Constant Bit Rate Mode) 1440x1080i MPEG2-TS /
MP2 (MPEG1 Layer 2) Constant Bit Rate (CBR): 27Mbps approx. 5hr


For bright, realistic colors the HD Everio uses three 1/5-inch CCDs - one each for red, green and blue. In addition, to ensure precise prism/CCD registration, JVC has incorporated Fujinon mounting technology used in professional camcorders. Fujinon also supplies the HD Everio's 10x optical zoom lens which provides superior optical performance and nearly the same brightness (F1.8-1.9) throughout its f=3.3mm~33mm zoom range by virtue of its three aspherical lens elements, one made of indexed glass. In addition, the lens surface is coated with a new Electronic Beam Coating (EBC) that greatly reduces degradation caused by light reflecting off the lens surfaces, leading to greater light transmission and reduced flaring and ghosting. To preserve that quality, the HD Everio features optical image stabilization, avoiding the signal degradation caused by electronic image stabilization, which might be particularly noticeable in HD footage. In short, HD Everio matches its high-definition recording capability with a proven HD lens section that has proven its value in the broadcast industry.

While the HD Everio offers fully automated operation for point and shoot simplicity, it also offers a wide range of manual controls. These include a manual focus ring, manual white balance, exposure control, shutter priority mode, aperture priority mode and sharpness control. In addition, a Focus Assist function displays the edge of the in-focus elements in color while the rest of the image is black-and-white, making it easy to check which image elements are in focus. And a Zebra function displays a striped pattern across highlight areas on the image in the LCD monitor, making it easier to manually set the exposure. Also included is a mic input for connecting an external microphone.

The HD Everio is equipped with three digital interfaces - USB, HDMI and i.LINK. USB is primarily for file saving, HDMI for digital viewing on large screen displays, and iLink streams high definition video in full resolution or 1440CBR mode. HD recorded material is down-converted for output in DV over i.LINK, or in standard definition via the analog component/ S-Video/ Composite output.

The HD Everio camcorder also connects to an optional JVC DVD burner, the HD Everio SHARE STATION CU-VD40, with a USB 2.0 cable and is controlled directly through the camcorder. The SHARE STATION can be used to create HD data discs to archive HD video clip files and writes to both DVD-R and DVD-RW discs. It also allows for the creation of digital stills in a JPEG format. Dual-layer DVD-R is also supported, which means that the combination of the HD Everio and the CU-VD40 provides a PC-less solution to the high-capacity archiving needs of HD content. HD and still files can be played back in ultra-high quality via the CU-VD40's HDMI output without the use of a computer. The HD Everio SHARE STATION also allows easy playback of archived files, without having to use the camcorder. Separately from the HD Everio, the CU-VD40 can be used as a DVD burner for PCs.

For editing and archiving via PC the HD Everio comes with the Cyberlink BD Solution software suite for Windows. This includes PowerDirector for HD video editing, PowerProducer for authoring high definition Blu-ray discs and DVD-Video discs, and PowerCinema for HD file management and playback.

Optional accessories for the HD Everio include a 46mm telephoto and a 46mm wide conversion lens, a battery charger and three additional batteries including standard, high power and extended power. Additional options include a stereo microphone.

http://www.jvc.com/press/index.jsp?u...m=565&pageID=1
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post #3 of 44 Old 03-04-2007, 05:43 AM
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This is the camcorder that has really got me excited. At last, true 1080i recording, unlike hdv's
reduced resolution. This should be a really great match for those who own the JVC RS-1.
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post #4 of 44 Old 03-04-2007, 11:21 AM
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This cam does sound good, but I am waiting for it to come out and for someone to do an in depth review.

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post #5 of 44 Old 03-04-2007, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Circuit City has them listed as "coming soon."

I wonder if it is good enough to produce a documentary video that could be sold to PBS.

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post #6 of 44 Old 03-04-2007, 05:53 PM
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Well... As I have said in other threads... buying a camcorder now is crazy. There is so much coming right now, and it all looks so good.... you need to wait for some of these reviews to start coming in to be able to make a really informed decision. I was waiting for the HV20 reviews as well as the sony HC7... but this one looks like it may be worth waiting for as well.
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post #7 of 44 Old 03-04-2007, 07:04 PM
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I worry about the compression.

At 1440x1080 is 27 Mbps CBR
at 1920x1080 is only 30 Mbps VBR?

So although you'll get the full resolution, you'll get a relatively higher compression. Am I wrong to assume this?

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post #8 of 44 Old 03-04-2007, 07:38 PM
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You are right, but these numbers are typical of consumer grade products and not worse than hdv. Only broadcast hd cams go up to 100mbps. This cam offers Fujinon glass lens, three ccds, optical stabilizer and true 1080i resolution. With those features in mind, I believe it is quite safe for someone to assume it will offer a pretty sweet image for the price.
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post #9 of 44 Old 03-04-2007, 08:32 PM
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I don't doubt that this camera will be good, but is it actually going to be better than HDV cams out there? I don't think 30 Mbps is enough for 1920x1080. Heck 25 Mbps CBR is not even enough 1440x1080. Yes you'll get higher res, but at the expense of more macroblocking?

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post #10 of 44 Old 03-05-2007, 04:16 AM
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Don't expect higher numbers for the time being. With the use of more efficient and powerful codecs most of the problems that reduce the digital picture quality should be addressed in a satisfactory way. Still, it would be wrong for someone to expect broadcast quality from consumer cams at any price range.
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post #11 of 44 Old 03-05-2007, 04:49 AM
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I don't expect broadcast quality, but I also expect for the compression problem to be LESS than the current HDV cameras; not more.

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post #12 of 44 Old 03-05-2007, 06:23 AM
 
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I've never had good luck with JVC products. I find the quality to be B-/C+ level although I expect A level when I purchase a product for so much. Not only that, the company itself has been in trouble for some time now. Matsushita is looking to reduce their stake in JVC as it's losing a lot of money.
http://www.japantoday.com/jp/news/400562

In addition, Bloomberg was saying that they'll have major organizational changes. I don't want to sink such a large sum of money into a product from a company in such a state.
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post #13 of 44 Old 03-05-2007, 09:00 AM
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To D.S. : If they use a latest generation real time compression encoder, the issue may not be as bad as you think. Look at what hd-dvd achieves at full 1080p with low bitrates and 30gb discs. Blu-ray, also peaks at 30mbps for mpeg-2, 1080p. 1080i does not require the same bandwidth as 1080p, so logically it should be easier to compress. Anyway, since the cam isn't out yet, we 'll just have to wait and see. I, for one, will definately be checking this out.

To lobato: I don't agree with you. I have had several JVC products in the past and none of them gave me any particular trouble, unlike some of the Sony products I own. This company has presented many pioneering and innovative ideas in the past and continues to do so. It is true, however, most of their products fail to achieve mass market breakthrough.
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post #14 of 44 Old 04-20-2007, 04:06 PM
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Guys, you failed to mention the most most most important element in this cam that distanced itself from the rest of the consumer crop of cam. When did you see a ultra fast and bright f/1.8 lens througout the ENTIRE ZOOM RANGE. Wake up, this feature is only reserved for pro level cam which can blur the background and let your subject standout from the background. I will definately go with this one since I think I can take some possible picture degradation by saving thounds from buying a Canon XLA1 although that gives you a 20X lens instead of JVC's 10X lens. But I am not sure if Canon's lens can be fixed at F/1.8-1.9. I am even worried that JVC may be intimidated by SONY and CANON by braking the rule to give ordinary cosumer cam with such a pro level lens.
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post #15 of 44 Old 04-20-2007, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdate View Post

But I am not sure if Canon's lens can be fixed at F/1.8-1.9.

Actually, the HV20 can go from F1.8 all the way to 8.0

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post #16 of 44 Old 04-20-2007, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Kysersose View Post

Actually, the HV20 can go from F1.8 all the way to 8.0

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Actually, sourdate asked if the lens can maintain its brightness (1.8-1.9) throughout the zoom range... that is not cheap and the HD7 offers it. HV20 is 1.8-3.0... the lower these numbers the better. Points go to JVC here.

I have the HD7 and love the camera, PQ, build, the convenience of the hard disk, manual controls, etc. Did not see much CA either, but did not push it to the limit in testing it. One problem - JVC forgot to put in an OIS. Sure the box says its there. So does the menu item where I can turn it on and off... but it makes no difference on or off. I even exchanged mine, tested OIS on the floor model at Circuit city against a Sony HC5, etc. but the only conclusion I can come to is that OIS is not present. Sad, love everything else about this cam. Low light performance is also fine (switch to manual and drop shutter speed to 1/30) to get reasonably good picture for this price.

Wonder when camcorderinfo is putting out their review.
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post #17 of 44 Old 04-20-2007, 05:33 PM
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Without an effective OIS, any positive points become moot unless you carry around a full-time tripod. It seems that almost all owners concur this is very deficient in the JVC. It almost makes me think of the Samsung BR player that was released with its noise reduction filter stuck 'on'. Everyone talked about its soft picture before anyone realized all units were defective.

I wonder if this could be a similar issue with JVC....the OIS is stuck 'off'???
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post #18 of 44 Old 04-20-2007, 06:43 PM
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Wow who stirred up the undercover JVC agents... lol (1 post, 3 posts)
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post #19 of 44 Old 04-20-2007, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdate View Post

But I am not sure if Canon's lens can be fixed at F/1.8-1.9.

So what? Just because it's a constant f/1.8 doesn't mean it's a better lens. Just compare a Sigma 18-50 f/2.8, Tamron 17-55 f/2.8 lens and a Canon 17-55 f/2.8.. they are all different in quality. Furthermore, the difference between one lens to another is night and day although all of them are of the same constant f/2.8 design. More example, Sigma 18-200 f/3.5-6.3 OS vs Nikon 18-200 f/3.5-5.6 VR, the difference in PQ is also night and day.

Beyond the lens, there is DSP, processor, sensor, etc.

Saying a camera is better because of the constant f/1.8 lens is like saying an 8 MP point and shoot is better than a 6 MP dSLR.

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post #20 of 44 Old 04-20-2007, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humax View Post

To D.S. : If they use a latest generation real time compression encoder, the issue may not be as bad as you think. Look at what hd-dvd achieves at full 1080p with low bitrates and 30gb discs. Blu-ray, also peaks at 30mbps for mpeg-2, 1080p. 1080i does not require the same bandwidth as 1080p, so logically it should be easier to compress. Anyway, since the cam isn't out yet, we 'll just have to wait and see. I, for one, will definately be checking this out.

But that's essentially what I'm saying, the problem will be LESS than HDV. Meaning the PQ, in theory at least, should be better than HDV.

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post #21 of 44 Old 04-20-2007, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by persiannight View Post

Wow who stirred up the undercover JVC agents... lol (1 post, 3 posts)

I assume 3 posts refers to me. I re-read my post and it sure does not sound like "JVC Agent".... do I sense a HV20 cult member here

Actually, I planning to return the JVC to CC. Boy...JVC even makes their "agents" defective.
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post #22 of 44 Old 04-20-2007, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

So what? Just because it's a constant f/1.8 doesn't mean it's a better lens. Just compare a Sigma 18-50 f/2.8, Tamron 17-55 f/2.8 lens and a Canon 17-55 f/2.8.. they are all different in quality. Furthermore, the difference between one lens to another is night and day although all of them are of the same constant f/2.8 design. More example, Sigma 18-200 f/3.5-6.3 OS vs Nikon 18-200 f/3.5-5.6 VR, the difference in PQ is also night and day.

Beyond the lens, there is DSP, processor, sensor, etc.

Saying a camera is better because of the constant f/1.8 lens is like saying an 8 MP point and shoot is better than a 6 MP dSLR.

First of all, Fujinon lens in no crap lens at all. I own a Canon 100mm F/2.0 lens and it really can blur the background completely on my EOS 20D. But up to this date, non of the consumer grade camcorder can do this. I will test this JVC and see if I can live with it, or I will go Canon's XLA1 for $3,500. Consumer level cam is only good for landscape and nature, but absoluetely not for protrait due to slow aperture at telephoto end (usually at f/5.6 which is too slow to throw off the background)which will provide a busy background to compete with your main subject for attention, a big no no for portrait. Watch any portrait shot or Hollywood movie you will know this.
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post #23 of 44 Old 04-21-2007, 12:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdate View Post

First of all, Fujinon lens in no crap lens at all. I own a Canon 100mm F/2.0 lens and it really can blur the background completely on my EOS 20D. But up to this date, non of the consumer grade camcorder can do this. I will test this JVC and see if I can live with it, or I will go Canon's XLA1 for $3,500. Consumer level cam is only good for landscape and nature, but absoluetely not for protrait due to slow aperture at telephoto end (usually at f/5.6 which is too slow to throw off the background)which will provide a busy background to compete with your main subject for attention, a big no no for portrait. Watch any portrait shot or Hollywood movie you will know this.

uhmmm...

1. did I say that the JVC lens bad? I only said that lens is not the ONLY thing that matters.

2. no need to lecture me about aperture. I've been dealing with photography for eons.

3. comparing a $1k camera to a $3.5k camera is hilarious. thank you for the laugh.

4. comparing a $1k VIDEO camera to a $2k STILL camera? even more hilarious. It's like saying "my $40,000 motorcycle can outrun your stock $20,000 family sedan".

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post #24 of 44 Old 04-21-2007, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

uhmmm...

1. did I say that the JVC lens bad? I only said that lens is not the ONLY thing that matters.

2. no need to lecture me about aperture. I've been dealing with photography for eons.

3. comparing a $1k camera to a $3.5k camera is hilarious. thank you for the laugh.

4. comparing a $1k VIDEO camera to a $2k STILL camera? even more hilarious. It's like saying "my $40,000 motorcycle can outrun your stock $20,000 family sedan".

It's even more hilarious to know that people are whinning about they are not getting the good OIS, other bells and whistles trivial stuffs etc when they don't realized it is a steal to have a super bright f/1.8 fixed zoom lens for a price tag at mere $1,600. Check out how expensive a fixed F1.8 10X zoom lens is before make your final judgement. By this feature alone, its value far outweight all other deficiencies. it's just too greedy for asking for everything when you are only paying half of that of proline models. OIS is just a convenience issue and certainly can be helped by a tripod. But throwing off the background is something you can never achieve on other slow aperture consumer grade camcorders. All I am saying is if a bright lens is a must for you, it's a blessing to first timer to have a feel of pro effect of portrait shots on camcorder by paying half of what they otherwise have to pay.
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post #25 of 44 Old 04-21-2007, 01:10 PM
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That's all well and good sourdate, and I understand your perspective. But most people buying these type of palmcorders are far more concerned with a steady shot on the run than they are with which camera has the fastest lens through its zoom range. The nature of the HD beast is that it will show more of the wabble and shake of an unsteady and inexperience operator, and they don't feel like pulling out a tripod everytime they have opportunity to take a good shot. There are many times when a tripod is a must, but good OIS is IMHO a major factor, and for many, outweighs the value of a high-end lens for this application.
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post #26 of 44 Old 04-21-2007, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdate View Post

It's even more hilarious to know that people are whinning about they are not getting the good OIS, other bells and whistles trivial stuffs etc when they don't realized it is a steal to have a super bright f/1.8 fixed zoom lens for a price tag at mere $1,600. Check out how expensive a fixed F1.8 10X zoom lens is before make your final judgement. By this feature alone, its value far outweight all other deficiencies. it's just too greedy for asking for everything when you are only paying half of that of proline models. OIS is just a convenience issue and certainly can be helped by a tripod. But throwing off the background is something you can never achieve on other slow aperture consumer grade camcorders. All I am saying is if a bright lens is a must for you, it's a blessing to first timer to have a feel of pro effect of portrait shots on camcorder by paying half of what they otherwise have to pay.

you just don't get it, do you? In the end, it's the overall performance that matters. You can have the best lens in the world but if the overall performance is still worse than a camera almost half its price, then it doesn't mean squat.

PS: you're still comparing still lens vs video lens. Video lens specs are always LOWER than still camera lens due to maximum resolving resolution and the fact that motion can hide a lot of lens deficiencies. Therefore comparing a 10x constant aperture video lens to a still lens is, again, laughable

I thought I won't see anybody like you in the camcorder area. You are no different than people who are buying a digital camera based on megapixel count alone and discounting everything else. The only difference is that for you lens is the only thing and everything else doesn't matter. Allow me to put it bluntly, regardless how great the lens is, if you use it on a crap camera, the end result will still be crap. It doesn't matter if you dress a donkey in a Vera Wang dress, it's still going to be a donkey.

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post #27 of 44 Old 04-21-2007, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by sourdate View Post

OIS is just a convenience issue and certainly can be helped by a tripod.

Totally disagree...in fact I couldn't disagree more. Effective OIS and EIS are accepted standards in almost all camcorders these days and have been for the last several years. It appears the JVC implementation is one of the worst we've seen in years.

It does absolutely no good to have the best lens in the world if you can't hold the camcorder steady. Yes, a tripod can fix that, but do you really expect people to start carrying a tripod around everywhere they go with the JVC? C'mon, that's about the most unrealistic expecation I can think of. That essentially means you must keep the lens at full WA to minimize the shake you'd get at any kind of telephoto focal length.

I've also seen some pretty serious CA in the JVC lens from the clips I've seen. So regardless of who makes it, if it's got bad CA, I could care less whose name is on it. Look at the Canon A1, it's got one of the most respected pieces of glass on it, a Canon lens. However that lens also suffers from some very bad CA at certain focal lengths. Not good.
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post #28 of 44 Old 04-21-2007, 02:46 PM
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David, I think you got your monkeys and donkeys crossed, but I agree with your point.

I just got back from Best Buy where I spent a long time toying with the JVC HD-7 and the Canon HV20. The JVC runs circles around the Canon in terms of build quality and in-hand feel. The controls on both are easily accessible.

The JVC seemed to perform better in low-light. I pointed them both at the same area of the back wall, which was a pretty dark space. The JVC was noticably brighter.

The Canon seemed MUCH faster at focusing. I mean MUCH faster. Did I mention that the Canon was alot faster focusing. I mean it. It didn't seem to hunt at all. The JVC wasn't nearly as quick.

The Canon OIS was a hands-down winner. It was significantly better at smoothing out my natural hand movement and tremors, even when zoomed in fully (which I rarely do anyway). The JVC OIS literally seemed non-existent. It made no apparent difference when it was turned on and off, even at wide-angle. This was truly a disappointment, because if it weren't for this problem, I'd almost certainly get the JVC. I love just about everything else, but I can't live with such poor OIS. To me, this is more important than its fast lens because this constant movement/shake will be very noticable on a HDTV.

And that's my $.02 review for the day...
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post #29 of 44 Old 04-21-2007, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Diggadonkey View Post

David, I think you got your monkeys and donkeys crossed, but I agree with your point.

Thank you for pointing that out. The cross-dressing monkey problem have been fixed!

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post #30 of 44 Old 04-21-2007, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

you just don't get it, do you? In the end, it's the overall performance that matters. You can have the best lens in the world but if the overall performance is still worse than a camera almost half its price, then it doesn't mean squat.

PS: you're still comparing still lens vs video lens. Video lens specs are always LOWER than still camera lens due to maximum resolving resolution and the fact that motion can hide a lot of lens deficiencies. Therefore comparing a 10x constant aperture video lens to a still lens is, again, laughable

I thought I won't see anybody like you in the camcorder area. You are no different than people who are buying a digital camera based on megapixel count alone and discounting everything else. The only difference is that for you lens is the only thing and everything else doesn't matter. Allow me to put it bluntly, regardless how great the lens is, if you use it on a crap camera, the end result will still be crap. It doesn't matter if you dress a donkey in a Vera Wang dress, it's still going to be a monkey.

It's mind boggling for one to lablel a camera crap simply because its OIS is a failure without judging its over picture quality in terms of color, contrast, saturation etc. Did it perform poorly in terms of image quality under good lighting?If picuture qulity is good, then I think with bright lens, manual control, zebra pattern make it a good value. Your analogy of megapiexel is ridiculous and shows You just don't know how to compare. The FACT is that Megapixel is a double edge sword, more piexels on a same size sensor invariably yieild more noise under low light. So More piexels can do more harm than good by itself under low light!! But lens never will. A better lens is always complementary to any camera body and can never be a negative factor. If OIS is really that great, then GOGEN and GITZO will be long out of business the day OIS is invented, and professional will swarm to OIS only lens and never buy heavy sturdy tripods anymore. This JVC camera is not intended for snapshot shooter since the bright lens, complete manual override and zebra pattern provide little value to them. If you think OIS outweight everything else, then go with Canon HV20 or SONY's entry HDV model.
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